80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

demersel wrote...
In priority Earth Anderson is deffinitly indoctrinaded and plans to give shepard to the reapers. Him and Coats. They sabotage the entire operation right form the start. As for him being indoctrinated in the prologue - hard to tell.

But without them, what is the operation?  There's lots to look at but I'm also uncomfortable destructing Anderson as a character because then what do we have left?  He is like the symbol of good and hope in many ways.

If we follow down this path, we end up with something that might say "ME is about the military indoctrinating its soldiers" and "refuse is the true end because vicotry is impossible - the other endings are a lie and a dream.  They all involve a cleansing fire [crucible] ".  And so on.

I am interested by these things but I'm also getting dangerously close to "is anything real?"  And once you start asking that, you're not saying anything at all.

[Whole Particle]

Was it ever explained why Anderson was seen meeting with that Cerberus Operative in the Shadow Broker Vid files? Perhaps related?

[401 Kill]

ajk_Jack wrote...

Andromidius wrote...


Not saying he is, but Anderson certainly does act strangely. Everyone does in ME3, honestly.

Come to think of it, you're right, the majority of ME3's characters don't act right in certain situations, up to and including Harbinger, who doesn't say a word the entire game.

I get the comparison to Harbinger and Anderson, but all of the other characters don't act that abnormal. Sure they might be scared or stressed out, but they don't act abnormal to the point of, say, Shepard.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 20 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

desert_beagle wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

desert_beagle wrote...

I haven't been here in a long time. I just watched a vid where apparently it is confirmed by BioWare that there will be NO Shepard in ME4. They keep making the claim that the ME universe is so vast and that they can do anything with it.

Here is the link www.youtube.com/watch and it starts at 2:49

Indeed.  And that vast universe is locked up tight unless they pick an ending to be canon.  They can't pull a Dues Ex: Human Revolution and make the ending isolated enough to not impact the timeline.

And thus, we find out if ME4 is filled with Space Magic and unicorns or if Shepard was tripping balls and the Reapers are still crushing face.

My point exactly.  In both Control and Synthesis, if taken literally, I see absolutely no pathway for conflict to emerge post a ME3 ending galaxy.  The only ending, and even the Catalyst says this, where conflict can still emerge is through the Destroy option.

Control-If we have a problem we'll just call in Commander Sh-Reaperd.  S/He'll take care of it.
Synthesis- No problems here man just pass the Valvoline and keep singing Kumbaya

Would anyone be interested in a ME game taking place before the Reaper War?  I'm not since there really isn't much going on before any of this stuff happens since humans have only been part of the galaxy as a whole for about 50 years in the "vast Mass Effect universe"

Yeah what threat would be able to threaten the Milky Way when it is united and allied with the Reapers? I mean it takes some serious suspension of disbelief imagining anything more technological advanced then the millions of years old Reapers.

[BatmanTurian]

Whole Particle wrote...

Was it ever explained why Anderson was seen meeting with that Cerberus Operative in the Shadow Broker Vid files? Perhaps related?

I always thought it was a scene out of the books. Admittedly, I have not read the books.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian. By the time of Priority Earth - Anderson is 100% indoctrinated and is setting you up. That is fact. You may not agree with it, or fail to see it, but it is fact none the less. Rewatch the "it's a shame it took the reapers to bring us all together" speach, and say that he's not playing sarcastaball, there.

[Restrider]

ajk_Jack wrote...

Your avatar has the side effect of making me take your posts more seriously, and read them in TIM's voice. 

Then you should also play this whole song, while you read my posts.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

401 Kill wrote...

ajk_Jack wrote...

Andromidius wrote...


Not saying he is, but Anderson certainly does act strangely. Everyone does in ME3, honestly.

Come to think of it, you're right, the majority of ME3's characters don't act right in certain situations, up to and including Harbinger, who doesn't say a word the entire game.

I get the comparison to Harbinger, but all of the other characters don't act that abnormal. Sure they might be scared or stressed out, but they don't act abnormal to the point of, say, Shepard.

I agree, most of the other characters reaction can be explained as the situation getting to them. It is now or never for not just Earth but all of the Galaxy after all. That is except for one scene in which every single squad member and Shepard is severily out of character, the Normandy pickup scene.

I mean James spoke about how he wanted to be at Earth fighting the fight, but now he is just going to leave because Shepard says so?

Javik is there to destroy the Reapers, nothing less, he is going to turn around because Shepard says so?

EDI faces no direct danger during the entire beam run as everything she is is stored on the Normandy not in the body, yet she retreats? (this one in paticular)

And perhaps most tellingly is Shepards orrder to have them pull out. He led a suicide mission with some of the people here, a suicide mission which despite its great importance seems insignificant next to what woul happen should no one reach the beam. Shepard knows the situation, it is do or die for the entire Galaxy, but he orders his squad out of there and they leave...

That is out of character.

[masster blaster]

Well if you want to talk about Chess Dem, then. In ME2 Harbinger wanted Shepard on his team. Dead or alive it didn't matter, but Cerberus wanted Shepard first, and thus they got Shepard from Liara.

Anyways the were building their forces. First thing was to get back Shepard. Next was to rebuild his/her ship. Then find recruits for his/her mission, and bring back some old friends. Yet Wilson was working for the Shadow broker, so that set back Cerberus plans they had with Shepard, after he/she was fully done.

Now you say TIM is being Controled by a nother Reaper. It's possible, but this Reaper is protecting humanity right. Then again if you look back in ME1 Cerberus experiments were in human. The things they have done while Shepard was dead, were weakening the galaxy as a whole.

Now as for Shepard being the new face for the Reapers idea, I can see that since ME1. Nazar wanted Shepard on his side, as he already had Saren, and half of the Geth race. Yet Shepard said go to hell and weakened Nazar long enough for the fleets to take him out.

Now after what Shepard did, Harbinger the leader of the Reapers saw Shepard a a huge public figure that could alter the variables in the near future. So he takes out Shepard with his toys, but Cerberus got Shepard in the end.

Now after Shepard wakes up Harbinger knew that once Cerberus got Shepard's body, then it wouldn't be long before Shepard comes back, and alter the variables again. So Harbinger orders his pets ( the Collectors) to collect as many humans as they can, and prepare to makes the new Reaper for this cycle.

As two years past the galaxy was under constent threat, but Anderson as old as he his tried to go stop Grayson, and Cerberus. He does a good job, and it is this time Harbinger takes note of Anderson, the former icon of humanity.

Okay as Shepard wakes up, and goes out to stop the Collectors He wants to taunt Harbinger/ test him to see how good is your force, and my force. So along the way Harbinger set up events that were going to change his plans.

Oker was trying to make the perfect Krogan, but what if Harbinger wanted Oker to build an army of perfect Krogans. It could boost Harbingers forces ten fold. Yet Shepard stop Harbingers later plan. Thus We Get grunt.

Now when we get Grunt Cerberus Miranada thinks that Cerberus needs this Krogan, and TIM also wants Grunt. Yet if you choose to keep Grunt, or not it boost TIM's forces ten fold.

Now I am not going into anymore of this, but you get the point.

The Iron throne is= TIM's chair.

TIM sat on the throne, but now Shepard does.

TIM was the face for Harbinger, but after everything that Shepard has done. Harbinger wanted Cerberus gone. The Normandy, it's crew, and Shepard were all goning to be his new toys. He isn't going to make them as regulare Reaper forces, no he is going to reconstruct them in his own image as he sees them, and thus he get's his new toys.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian. By the time of Priority Earth - Anderson is 100% indoctrinated and is setting you up. That is fact. You may not agree with it, or fail to see it, but it is fact none the less. Rewatch the "it's a shame it took the reapers to bring us all together" speach, and say that he's not playing sarcastaball, there.

You can't say it's a fact. You're mixing fact with suspicion. He could just be stressed out. Yeah, PE is weird, but how much of it is Shepard's mind becoming mush and interpreting reality differently? We can't say it with absolute conviction.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 20 octobre 2012 - 05:00 .

[demersel]

Davik Kang wrote...

demersel wrote...
In priority Earth Anderson is deffinitly indoctrinaded and plans to give shepard to the reapers. Him and Coats. They sabotage the entire operation right form the start. As for him being indoctrinated in the prologue - hard to tell.

But without them, what is the operation?  There's lots to look at but I'm also uncomfortable destructing Anderson as a character because then what do we have left?  He is like the symbol of good and hope in many ways.

If we follow down this path, we end up with something that might say "ME is about the military indoctrinating its soldiers" and "refuse is the true end because vicotry is impossible - the other endings are a lie and a dream.  They all involve a cleansing fire [crucible] ".  And so on.

I am interested by these things but I'm also getting dangerously close to "is anything real?"  And once you start asking that, you're not saying anything at all.

Anderson and Coats are sabotajing the hammer operation, and they seem very hellbent on bringing shepard to the beam. It is the only thing they care about. Think of all the soldiers at earth as of those at Project Rho base. Really - exactly the same situation. 

[Davik Kang]

BatmanTurian wrote...
 We can't say it with absolute conviction.

Indeed.  Maybe you guys are right and BW does have a whole bunch of stuff in store.  That Gamble thing, about what they were planning...

Where does the plan to attack the beam actually come from?  Is it made up on the spot during Priority Earth, or is it before?

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian. By the time of Priority Earth - Anderson is 100% indoctrinated and is setting you up. That is fact. You may not agree with it, or fail to see it, but it is fact none the less. Rewatch the "it's a shame it took the reapers to bring us all together" speach, and say that he's not playing sarcastaball, there.

You can't say it's a fact. You're mixing fact with suspicion. He could just be stressed out. Yeah, PE is weird, but how much of it is Shepard's mind becoming mush and interpreting reality differently? We can't say it with absolute conviction.

Anderson is indoctrinated. 
The only debatable question is whether or not Priority Earth is Real at all. that can be debated and interpreted differently. 

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian. By the time of Priority Earth - Anderson is 100% indoctrinated and is setting you up. That is fact. You may not agree with it, or fail to see it, but it is fact none the less. Rewatch the "it's a shame it took the reapers to bring us all together" speach, and say that he's not playing sarcastaball, there.

You can't say it's a fact. You're mixing fact with suspicion. He could just be stressed out. Yeah, PE is weird, but how much of it is Shepard's mind becoming mush and interpreting reality differently? We can't say it with absolute conviction.

Anderson is indoctrinated. 
The only debatable question is whether or not Priority Earth is Real at all. that can be debated and interpreted differently. 

Alright. I'm just saying we should look at everything with a little bit of skepticism until we have it outlined in stone and supported by concrete evidence.

[Davik Kang]

demersel wrote...
Anderson is indoctrinated. 
The only debatable question is whether or not Priority Earth is Real at all. that can be debated and interpreted differently. 

Are you really just gonna derail this whole thing?  Without providing any evidence?

Good ideas are one thing, dismissing counterclaims without any rationale is plain dumb.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 20 octobre 2012 - 05:07 .

[demersel]

masster blaster wrote...

I agree with most of things, except that i don't think that tim is being controlled by another reaper. He IS another reaper. Competing with harbinger. That is why harbinger wants to take out cerberus and cerberus wants to take out the collectors. 

[Whole Particle]

Davik Kang wrote...

Where does the plan to attack the beam actually come from?  Is it made up on the spot during Priority Earth, or is it before?

Does the beam even have a purpose? My first thought was that it was put there by the Reapers to bring bodies to the Citadel for "processing", but can the Citadel even "process" bodies in such a fashion? Were they trying to build a Reaper there?

That also makes me think about the Beam itself. Don't remember ever seeing such a teleporation - like beam in the ME universe before. What kind of tech is powering it? Is it supposed to be a Mass Relay? If so, why doesn't it look like one?

[401 Kill]

Davik Kang wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
 We can't say it with absolute conviction.

Indeed.  Maybe you guys are right and BW does have a whole bunch of stuff in store.  That Gamble thing, about what they were planning...

If they are planning to have us wonder about the endings and not include Shepard in ME4 I will burn my ME games.

Davik Kang wrote...
Where does the plan to attack the beam actually come from?  Is it made up on the spot during Priority Earth, or is it before?

I think it is formed over the QEC between Shepard, Anderson and Hacket.

[Davik Kang]

Whole Particle wrote...
Does the beam even have a purpose? My first thought was that it was put there by the Reapers to bring bodies to the Citadel for "processing", but can the Citadel even "process" bodies in such a fashion? Were they trying to build a Reaper there?

That also makes me think about the Beam itself. Don't remember ever seeing such a teleporation - like beam in the ME universe before. What kind of tech is powering it? Is it supposed to be a Mass Relay? If so, why doesn't it look like one?

I've been wondering about the beam and you make a great point.  Holy s...

Do you remember the Reaper monuments in ME1 and ME2?  The Geth have one in ME1.  You can see them standing in front of it, or is it kneeling, almost as if they're worshipping it.

Then in ME2.  The place where you see recordings of all the dreams.  There's a Reaper monument there too.  And human bodies are impaled on spikes, like the husk-generating machines used in ME1.

The beam in ME3 looks just like these monuments.  Blue, pronged, with white light between.  Arrival does too right?  A place of worship.  A place where everyone feels compelled to go...

Right?  I know this seems crazy but... it does make sense!?!  Right?  

Modifié par Davik Kang, 20 octobre 2012 - 05:12 .

[Davik Kang]

As in... if it's not a beam... it's a shrine...

[demersel]

Davik. BatmanTurian. Ok. Rewatch Priority earth.
Note everything Anderson and Coats say - they mostly talk to each other. Everything we do there except taking out the hades cannon is what anderson and Coats tell us. They avoid all the questions about how they menaged to survive.
When we have to take down the reaper destroyer - Anderson just says - no plan, just hold as long as you can. When we actually take that thing down he is annoyed and say, ok, let's get you to that beam then. When it is time to charge the beam anderson acts as if he's gonna lead the charge, yet he doesn't actually charge the beam. Neither does coats. All the information we have about the beam we get from Anderson. Really - rewatch it, carefully, noting the behavior and reaction of Anderson and Coats. Once you arrive at FOB Coats talks to you explaining how important you are as a symbol for this war to go on.

[401 Kill]

Davik Kang wrote...

Whole Particle wrote...
Does the beam even have a purpose? My first thought was that it was put there by the Reapers to bring bodies to the Citadel for "processing", but can the Citadel even "process" bodies in such a fashion? Were they trying to build a Reaper there?
That also makes me think about the Beam itself. Don't remember ever seeing such a teleporation - like beam in the ME universe before. What kind of tech is powering it? Is it supposed to be a Mass Relay? If so, why doesn't it look like one?

I've been wondering about the beam and you make a great point.  Holy s...
Do you remember the Reaper monuments in ME1 and ME2?  The Geth have one in ME1.  You can see them standing in front of it, or is it kneeling, almost as if they're worshipping it.
Then in ME2.  The place where you see recordings of all the dreams.  There's a Reaper monument there too.  And human bodies are impaled on spikes, like the husk-generating machines used in ME1.
The beam in ME3 looks just like these monuments.  Blue, pronged, with white light between.  Arrival does too right?  A place of worship.  A place where everyone feels compelled to go...
Right?  I know this seems crazy but... it does make sense!?!  Right?  

It makes perfect sense. There is even a datapad in the FOB about how the beam seems to call them in, and those who return are not the same (indoctrinated). And at the end, all of your forces are litterally running towards the beam...

[demersel]

401 Kill wrote...
I think it is formed over the QEC between Shepard, Anderson and Hacket.

Exactly. 

[masster blaster]

Well it's funny everyone is acting strange on Earth. Wrex forogt that it was he that wanted to name the child after Morin, not Eve. Also primearc Victus is on Earth. The last leader of the Truian forces, not talking about the other generals, but the heade Leader of the Turians is on Earth.

Heck almost all of the Leaders in the galaxy are on Earth.

The council is on the Citadel. The Embassadors of every nation except the Batarians in on the Citadel. Victous leader of the Turians, Wrex Leader of the Krogan, Kirra leader of STG, The Geth primes leaders of the Geth, The Quarian admiral leaders of the Quarians, Hackett,Shepard, and Anderson leaders of Humanity, Bakr is the last military leader of the Batarians is fighting in space, Aria leader of the Terminus systems/ fleets, So many people in the sol system waiting to become Indoctrinated. With all of those leaders on Earth/ fighting in space/ on the Citadel. Do you all realy think the Reaper would miss this chance to Indoctrinate all of these leaders. Hell no.

If the Crucible is a trap, which many of use do, then all of these people I mentioned are targets to become Indoctrinated.

They are already working on Wrex, Victous, Anderson, and our squad mates, but it is Shepard who is becoming the first to fall. Hence the endings.

[Davik Kang]

401 Kill wrote...
It makes perfect sense. There is even a datapad in the FOB about how the beam seems to call them in, and those who return are not the same (indoctrinated). And at the end, all of your forces are litterally running towards the beam...

Oh.  My.  God.  And there is a datapad where someone says, everyone who goes in there something something, right, and it gets more muddled, until the calm but at the end, where they say,

"won't go in there.  Know what to do"

or something...

holy moly...

I might have to play P:E again... even though I never normally do that...

It's not a war any more.  It's an investigation, a puzzle, a mystery