80611 réponses à ce sujet

[masster blaster]

paxxton wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

AxStapleton wrote...

Seriously off-topic right there.

Maybe we should move to TJ's WNT thread at least for some time. There seems to be not much to speculate on right now.

I want to speculate but not through threat of ban and such. I'm going back to lurker state and to the free peoples of reddit.com/r/indoctrinated it's been a pleasure serving with you fine fellows. smokingotter out.

Seems we've lost a supporter. Post from time to time if you're in the vicinity.

He is not really gone, but only time will tell Pax. only time will tell. We lost EarthBorn Shepard, Balance 5050, and more. This won't be the first or last, but we always get more people don't we.

[masster blaster]

Simon_Says wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

The Reapers have always been very careful in the past.  Very patient.  They make sure they win before they've even started.

Suddenly dumbing this strategy in favour of brute force and shock tactics is bizzare.  Its character assassination, turning them from an interesting and terrifying foe that lurks in the shadows before slaughtering all who stand in their path to...  Well, little more then a technologically advanced barbarian horde with as much tactic subtly as a battering ram.  Which is even more bizzare when they've got the key to the castle!

Actually, think back to the end of ME2.

Harbinger said to the Collector General...

You have failed. We will find another way.

Another way to do what exactly? Harvest humanity? Well if that's the case why did they even bother with the collectors? ME3 says that they basically parked on Earth and began harvesting wholesale so the collector's weren't even necessary. Unless, of course, you think a little more broadly. Harvesting a species that's fighting back is not desirable. It's just better to harvest when the species isn't resisting.

The collectors were used as a means of harvesting humanity without the reapers being at risk or even exerting any real effort. I have the suspicion that the reaper invasion and the indoctrination of Shepard is actually a xanatos gambit by the reapers: a plan to pacify the council cycle.

Think about it. They employ shock and awe to cow the cycle. They allow the cycle to construct the crucible and draw their entire military might to Earth. They attempt to indoctrinate Shepard and possibly other major cycle leaders. (Anderson, Wrex, Victus, Liara, TIM etc.) And if I recall correctly, before Shepard manages to kill destroyers, the reapers weren't actually suffering significant losses.

This cycle proved to be a handful. Their vanguard was defeated. Their collector pawns were defeated. Their backup invasion plan was terminated. Their standard strategies weren't working. Divide and conquer will likely also prove more problematic than usual. Then again, "there is strength in harnessing the strengths of your enemy." The people causing them so many problems could prove to be invaluable assets if turned. So they developed a new strategy. It's a gamble, but they figure it's worth a shot.

But of course they commited their persistent error: they underestimated Shepard and Co, and the council cycle as a whole. Suddenly destroyers and capitals are dying, their plan to sieze control of the Citadel is thwarted, and Cerberus are actually turning into a liability with their progress at Sanctuary. The reapers are actually just as desperate to win as Shepard in the end, hence why the Catalyst is rushing Shepard's indoctrination.

Then again, destroyers aren't as important as capitals. The losses on Tuchanka and Rannoch are acceptable if it means the council cycle is that much more united. If the cycle finishes its crucible and they succeed in indoctrinating Shepard and the other cycle leaders, they can end the war in their favor and being harvesting the cycle slowly, patiently, safely.

Indeed.

[Trollgunner]

Btw, does anyone still thinks, that the whole sequence after you got hit by Harby never happend? I got convinced in that, when someone delivered a combined picture of conduit and RGB room.

[Simon_Says]

legaldinho wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

So....

Godchild: The created will always rebel against their creators
Shepard: What about the keepers?
Godchild: They dont count.
Shepard: Oh, ok then.

Nice!

They don't count because they're not synthetic. Casper's logic assigns a ridiculous- and unwarranted- importance to synthetic (created) intelligence. Somehow they will, they must rebel. The keepers don't disprove his assertion, because right from the beginning they're excluded from the argument. Please can we stop mentioning the technological singularity. It really is the most upsetting thing about the ending. Grrr.

Except that the keepers are just like the husks: biosynthetic. They're just as 'created' as any other synthetic.

Actually I sorta think that Selfish Meme Theory could explain why husks/collectors/keepers don't rebel: They're indoctrinated. They're just as part of the indoctrinated 'concensus' as the reapers are. They're not so much "created by the reapers" as they're "just different kinds of reaper" from a mental standpoint.

[TJBartlemus]

Trollgunner wrote...

Btw, does anyone still thinks, that the whole sequence after you got hit by Harby never happend? I got convinced in that, when someone delivered a combined picture of conduit and RGB room.

Most of IT does. There are other possible explainations too. Check this out. Personally I am thinking it is either IT or WNT. No way everything that happens is 100% literal. 

http://social.biowar.../index/13474338

[paxxton]

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 août 2012 - 10:25 .

[masster blaster]

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

?????

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

Relinking because it got drowned by offtopicness earlier.

Good post. I'm not really sure if I buy that the Reapers are desperate, but I do know they know what Bastila knew:

What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them?

Killing Shepard would be a waste.

Hell, unless Harby had plans for Shep, he'd have had her killed in Arrival. He clearly has a plan for her.

Somewhat reminds me of another quote, this one from Amon, the main bad guy in Legend of Korra:

Our showdown, while inevitable, is premature. Although it would be the simplest thing for me to take away your bending right now, I won't. You'd only become a martyr. Benders of every nation would rally behind your untimely demise, but I assure you, I have a plan. And I'm saving you for last, then you'll get your duel, and I will destroy you.

I figure Harby doesnt want a martyr. He doesnt want people to rally behind an ideal, but behind a person.

People who are following an ideal are much more difficult to manipulate than people who are following a person.

[Simon_Says]

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

?????

Unified Nanide-based Indoctrination Theory (UNIT)
 
Reaper-induced Shepard's Dream Theory (RSDT)

BioWare's Appeal (BA)

Modifié par paxxton, 03 août 2012 - 10:28 .

[Samtheman63]

has IT been confirmed yet?

[TJBartlemus]

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

But WNT is way more awesome...   WNT's based on proof, while your theories are just ideas. However that shouldn't stop people from looking at them. They are pretty interesting. 

[TJBartlemus]

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

I don't think we watched the same video...  You are talking about something totally different than I was.

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

Distributing the capsules before Priority: Earth and claiming the Crucible didnt work seems like a stupid move.

How does she know if we fail its because the Crucible didnt work, and not because we never got a chance to use it?

And if she told the future cycles it didnt work, why'd they go ahead and build their own anyways?

Refuse makes no kind of sense.

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

But WNT is way more awesome...   WNT's based on proof, while your theories are just ideas. However that shouldn't stop people from looking at them. They are pretty interesting. 

UNIT is strongly grounded in proof. BA is a simple interpretation of what the Catalyst's says. RSDT is more of an idea but still not without a shred of evidence.

[Simon_Says]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

I don't think we watched the same video...  You are talking about something totally different than I was.

Sort of. It's more a tangential note that anything. "If Liara dies and reject is chosen the capsule cutscene still plays."

[paxxton]

Nothing of value here.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 août 2012 - 11:51 .

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

But WNT is way more awesome...   WNT's based on proof, while your theories are just ideas. However that shouldn't stop people from looking at them. They are pretty interesting. 

UNIT is strongly grounded in proof. BA is a simple interpretation of what the Catalyst's says. RSDT is more of an idea but still not without a shred of evidence.

Why doesnt induced get its own letter?

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

There's also UNIT, RSDT and BA.

But WNT is way more awesome...   WNT's based on proof, while your theories are just ideas. However that shouldn't stop people from looking at them. They are pretty interesting. 

UNIT is strongly grounded in proof. BA is a simple interpretation of what the Catalyst's says. RSDT is more of an idea but still not without a shred of evidence.

Why doesnt induced get its own letter?

Reaper-induced. Dunno maybe cause it's not capitalized.

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

Distributing the capsules before Priority: Earth and claiming the Crucible didnt work seems like a stupid move.

How does she know if we fail its because the Crucible didnt work, and not because we never got a chance to use it?

And if she told the future cycles it didnt work, why'd they go ahead and build their own anyways?

Refuse makes no kind of sense.

I actually remarked earlier that if the Crucible was left attached to the Citadel, the new cycle wouldn't need to build it.

They'd probably see the doohhikey, didn't figure out what it was, found the capsules, then learned it was a "counter-cuttlefish device". Hence "they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to".

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

Distributing the capsules before Priority: Earth and claiming the Crucible didnt work seems like a stupid move.

How does she know if we fail its because the Crucible didnt work, and not because we never got a chance to use it?

And if she told the future cycles it didnt work, why'd they go ahead and build their own anyways?

Refuse makes no kind of sense.

I actually remarked earlier that if the Crucible was left attached to the Citadel, the new cycle wouldn't need to build it.

They'd probably see the doohhikey, didn't figure out what it was, found the capsules, then learned it was a "counter-cuttlefish device". Hence "they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to".

So.... the Reapers just left the Crucible there?

[Simon_Says]

CoolioThane wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

estebanus wrote...

So, as the selfish meme theory says, the main enemy of Mass Effect is, indeed, indoctrination. What if this is true? And how would it be implemented into the game if it turns out that the IT is true?

It will be most likly the next enemy for the future of ME.

Next? It is THE enemy already!

Yep. It still presents plenty of sequel bait material though. Short of wiping out every indoctrinated intelligence and indoctrinating device Indoctrination will pose a risk to the galactic community. And since there are dead reapers and reaper artifacts and countless unkown sleeper agents throughout the galaxy, yeah. Just one of those is needed to start another outbreak.

The fight for freedom of thought may haunt the galaxy forever.

[paxxton]

Samtheman63 wrote...

has IT been confirmed yet?

There hasn't been anything new for SP since the EC was released in late June so the answer is no. But is a confirmation required for IT to be true? 

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

Distributing the capsules before Priority: Earth and claiming the Crucible didnt work seems like a stupid move.

How does she know if we fail its because the Crucible didnt work, and not because we never got a chance to use it?

And if she told the future cycles it didnt work, why'd they go ahead and build their own anyways?

Refuse makes no kind of sense.

I actually remarked earlier that if the Crucible was left attached to the Citadel, the new cycle wouldn't need to build it.

They'd probably see the doohhikey, didn't figure out what it was, found the capsules, then learned it was a "counter-cuttlefish device". Hence "they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to".

So.... the Reapers just left the Crucible there?

If it's a trap or could be used to serve the reapers, why not? The work's already been done.

[TJBartlemus]

Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

 Okay, this is interesting....you know how some of our proof is based on BioWare errors? Well here is a pretty rare one. 


I say space magic is finally proven,  but does it affect anything with IT?

It proves that Liara distributed the capsules before Priority: Earth. Hence reject doesn't seem to have any hope of victory unless the epilogue and stargazer scene are part of the hallucination as well.

Distributing the capsules before Priority: Earth and claiming the Crucible didnt work seems like a stupid move.

How does she know if we fail its because the Crucible didnt work, and not because we never got a chance to use it?

And if she told the future cycles it didnt work, why'd they go ahead and build their own anyways?

Refuse makes no kind of sense.

I actually remarked earlier that if the Crucible was left attached to the Citadel, the new cycle wouldn't need to build it.

They'd probably see the doohhikey, didn't figure out what it was, found the capsules, then learned it was a "counter-cuttlefish device". Hence "they fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to".

But what if the Citadel in that time of waiting was closed? Or the Reapers removed it and destroyed it? 

PS. Just noticed this but in the EC, BioWare I believe removed the scene that the Citadel closed w/ the Reapers leaving. Why? Did their plans with Control change?