80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Here is what we know after Mars mission:

Reapers kicking ass. Crucible may be super weapon. TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

Heres what we know at the end of the game:
Reapers kicking ass. Crucible might be a super weapon.TIM is probably indoctrinated. Shepard might be getting indoctrinated too.

LOL

[CmdrShep80]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

For me I didn't think this.  I was actually trying to look for the catalyst and ended up being duped by the kid

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:31 .

[BansheeOwnage]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

For me I didn't think this.  I was actually trying to look for the catalyst and ended up being duped by the kid

Did you think anything in particular was the catalyst?

[BansheeOwnage]

Repost because pure awesome.

Theories are all we've got right now.

Goodnight.  I'll try not to dream about any kids...

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:06 .

[jojon2se]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I've just been wondering how liquified organic paste retains any cognitive function to form a gestalt intelligence.

 --- snip ---

Well, I don't know about everybody else, but I never regarded that grey goop as "paste".
Instead I imagined the flesh of the victims was reconstituted on a cellular level, as a culture of new micro organisms, each of which preserved part of the original individual's neural network.
Perhaps each of these... "ganglia+" would have external nodes and synapses, so that they could connect physically with their direct neighbours, at least to the degree that each original brain would be completely recreated functionally; On the larger whole, though, it would take the new reaper's indoctrination field to bring them all together as the "gestalt" you mention -- the field itself would not be the indoctrinating agent - just its delivery vessel and when you walk into it, you in effect become more or less integrated into the reaper's thought processes.

EDIT: ...hence shared memories, etc...     Also opens up the whole stronger-will-than-the-indoctrinating-director angle...

Modifié par jojon2se, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:14 .

[CmdrShep80]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

For me I didn't think this.  I was actually trying to look for the catalyst and ended up being duped by the kid

Did you think anything in particular was the catalyst?

nope. I still don't have a good idea what it is. I did post a while back on what I thought the crucible actually did. In that post I pegged the catalyst to be the energy enhancing properties of the citadel to open a mass relay to dark space. Instead it would use that energy to destroy the reapers. Think of a transformer  or an amplifier. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

Unity alone does not only constitute a fighting chance. The Protheans were united when the Reapers arrived, but it was a forced unity where the Protheans had forced their dominion upon others.

The results as we learned was that they only had a set number of strategies, tactics and technologies and once the Reapers adapted to them the Protheans were screwed.

This cycles fighting chance does largely spring from Shepard and he is a Catalyst in that sense, but it was because he united a divided galaxy, one with vastly different races, cultures and beliefs that this cycle has a fighting chance.

Well it is obviusly also because the Protheans sabotaged the Citadel so that the Reaoers couldnt pull the usual suprise, divide and conquer strategy.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:44 .

[Andromidius]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Unity alone does not only constitute a fighting chance. The Protheans were united when the Reapers arrived, but it was a forced unity where the Protheans had forced their dominion upon others.

Well, kind of.  The Protheans also had their supply and communication lines cut abruptly.  I imagine some colonies didn't even know they were at war until decades later.

Not to mention the Reapers can learn their tactics from reading records on the Citadel, and then practice them piecemeal.  Then come the next pocket of resistance they already know what to expect, while the Protheans don't even know who is attacking them.

Pretty brutal tactics all in all.  Which is why this cycle's invasion seems so ham fisted and laughable - they aren't using any of their tried and tested tactics all because they failed to capture the Citadel first!

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Unity alone does not only constitute a fighting chance. The Protheans were united when the Reapers arrived, but it was a forced unity where the Protheans had forced their dominion upon others.

Well, kind of.  The Protheans also had their supply and communication lines cut abruptly.  I imagine some colonies didn't even know they were at war until decades later.

Not to mention the Reapers can learn their tactics from reading records on the Citadel, and then practice them piecemeal.  Then come the next pocket of resistance they already know what to expect, while the Protheans don't even know who is attacking them.

Pretty brutal tactics all in all.  Which is why this cycle's invasion seems so ham fisted and laughable - they aren't using any of their tried and tested tactics all because they failed to capture the Citadel first!

And just like it was mentioned earlier, the Reapers almost never expect the unexpected or have backup plans. That's another big advantage for us.

[Leonia]

It's hard to think ahead when you believe you're the pinnacle of evolution.

[Jusseb]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

I thought that to, when they started talking about 'The Catalyst' i also thought that Shepard was the key.

[BleedingUranium]

leonia42 wrote...

It's hard to think ahead when you believe you're the pinnacle of evolution.

What's funny about that is that's exactly how the Reapers came to be. The Leviathans had exactly the same mindset. How ironic that it will (hopefully) be the Reapers' downfall as well

[Humakt83]

Andromidius wrote...

Pretty brutal tactics all in all.  Which is why this cycle's invasion seems so ham fisted and laughable - they aren't using any of their tried and tested tactics all because they failed to capture the Citadel first!

They are using their sleeper agents to capture the Citadel, Cerberus to cause mayhem everywhere (it is not a coincidence that both Cerberus and Reapers are on Tuchanka), even took control of Geth to destroy the largest opposing fleet in the Galaxy.

Heck, even the whole Crucible plot seems very much like their trap. Especially when they know about it (do not forget that the indoctrinated faction in previous cycle also wanted to use the Crucible for control).

And, they likely even used indoctrination to convince allied forces to attack on the Earth. Suicide mission anyone?

Modifié par Humakt83, 21 octobre 2012 - 10:32 .

[paxxton]

leonia42 wrote...

It's hard to think ahead when you believe you're the pinnacle of evolution.

Unless it's just a soundbite meant to intimidate your enemy, weaken their resolve. The message is that Organics are vermin and the Reapers surpass them by far. Coupled with their terrifying looks and sounds, sporting deadly weapons, they appear to people as invincible.

Or the Reapers think about themselves as the pinnacle of evolution of the species they slaughtered. If the species were completely annihilated during the process, they don't evolve anymore (they don't exist). Hence the Reapers are the final stage (the pinnacle) of their existence. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense cause evolution never stops and there is no pinnacle. The only other way it would make some sense is if the Reapers considered themselves the current pinnacle (at a given moment in history).

Modifié par paxxton, 21 octobre 2012 - 11:30 .

[MegumiAzusa]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

Nope the relay network is still the catalyst as it's used to spread the Crucible energy. As with the rewrite where they removed Javik as the Catalyst it doesn't make much sense anymore for having a person being it.

[Humakt83]

paxxton wrote...

Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense cause evolution never stops and there is no pinnacle.

It is a pinnacle when you no longer have to adapt to your environment.

[paxxton]

Humakt83 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense cause evolution never stops and there is no pinnacle.

It is a pinnacle when you no longer have to adapt to your environment.

Is it even possible? All environments constantly change.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

I thought the same thing based on the scene in the temple of Athame on Thessia. The one where Shepard senses the beacon there (without Javik). Okay, now that I've thought about that, just..

Why would the writers have Shepard altered by the beacon on Eden prime, and hint throughout the series AFTER Shepard has been rebuilt that this is still a thing if all we get at the end of it all is Shepard sensing the beacon in Thessia? The From Ashes dlc lended to this quite a bit too, not only in bringing back Shepard being able to understand the prothean videos whereas the crew saw diddlysquat, but also in Javik actually confirming that the beacon did far more than give Shepard a few nightmares and headaches in the first game.

My initial thought on this during my first playthrough of ME3 was that the altered part of Shepard was going to become more dominant over time. Or something. Shruggot.

[Hrothdane]

paxxton wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense cause evolution never stops and there is no pinnacle.

It is a pinnacle when you no longer have to adapt to your environment.

Is it even possible? All environments constantly change.

Possible. The Red Queen Hypothesis (love that name) in evolutionary biology posits that organisms must always evolve just in order to keep their place in an ecosystem, even apex predators. As per the allusion to Alice in Wonderland, you must keep running just to stay where you are.

[MegumiAzusa]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

This. So much this. I thought Shepard would be the catalyst my first playthrough. What did everyone else think?

Top! 

I thought the same thing based on the scene in the temple of Athame on Thessia. The one where Shepard senses the beacon there (without Javik). Okay, now that I've thought about that, just..

Why would the writers have Shepard altered by the beacon on Eden prime, and hint throughout the series AFTER Shepard has been rebuilt that this is still a thing if all we get at the end of it all is Shepard sensing the beacon in Thessia? The From Ashes dlc lended to this quite a bit too, not only in bringing back Shepard being able to understand the prothean videos whereas the crew saw diddlysquat, but also in Javik actually confirming that the beacon did far more than give Shepard a few nightmares and headaches in the first game.

My initial thought on this during my first playthrough of ME3 was that the altered part of Shepard was going to become more dominant over time. Or something. Shruggot.

You know there are lots of Reaper noises then Shepard allegedly senses the beacon?

[Davik Kang]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
Right. And what is Shepard? The Catalyst. Why did the other cycles fail? They couldn't find a Catalyst to unite them. Shepard is the Catalyst!

I came to the same conclusion, but there is a problem with this.  The word catalyst is speciafically chosen.  The definition is of an element added to a reaction which accelerates the reaction without changing the catalyst at all.  So e.g. it could be used again.

The Kid is not the Catalyst.  He specifically says "the Crucible changed me" which is a rather vague and odd thing to say out of context.  But as he called himself the Catalyst, it's a blatant 'nudge nudge this thing is lying'.

Now Shepard can instigate the process between the crucible and Citadel.  However, he's still changed if he picks Control or Synthesis.  The only option where he isn't changed is Destroy.  So he's only really a Catalyst if you pick Destroy.

This could lend weight to the idea that Destroy is the true ending.  But there are more implications as well.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
You know there are lots of Reaper noises then Shepard allegedly senses the beacon?

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember that. And I just rewatched it. You're right, those ARE reaper noises..



I was going to say before you brought that up that I guess the whole beacon thing with Shepard comes full circle with the beacon at Thessia. Now, I don't think it does. 

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 21 octobre 2012 - 01:21 .

[paxxton]

Hrothdane wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense cause evolution never stops and there is no pinnacle.

It is a pinnacle when you no longer have to adapt to your environment.

Is it even possible? All environments constantly change.

Possible. The Red Queen Hypothesis (love that name) in evolutionary biology posits that organisms must always evolve just in order to keep their place in an ecosystem, even apex predators. As per the allusion to Alice in Wonderland, you must keep running just to stay where you are.

As far as I understand it, the evolutionary advantage of a species over another is diminishes if it's not properly maintained. But the hypothesis isn't concerned with any species becoming the apex of evolution. Also, if the environment changes, you need to run twice as fast to keep the pace.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 octobre 2012 - 02:00 .

[Davik Kang]

 Demersel got me thinking... about TIM...

I finally figured out who he is.


Let me ask you.  Why is he called Illusive?  Why not Elusive?  Because them he wouldn't be called TIM.

At the end, we see telephone booths with the letters H and E highlighted in orange...

What is the vocational code for special forces personell?  N.

And what is Shepard.  Well in a lot of playthroughs, Shepard is a MAN...
You know what that means...

The Illusive Man is...

TIM HENMAN






This is also why the game ends in London.

It's all so clear now.  Why didn't we see it before?

Modifié par Davik Kang, 21 octobre 2012 - 01:33 .

[Hrothdane]

Davik Kang wrote...

"Davik Kang's hilarious post"

That definitely gave me a laugh