80611 réponses à ce sujet

[401 Kill]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...
The Illusive Man is a derelict Reaper.

He is not.  He is Tim Henman.  I have already proved this.

Isn't he the guy from 2 1/2 men?

Tennis player?

I think a repost is in order!

[paxxton]

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys. No rage here. It has been a pleasure talking to you all about all this stuff. I hope to continue by covering a few points here and there. Bounce ideas around.

Let me just say this now so I never have to say it again. This isn't an attack I promise. Honestly. Just stating something and I don't have any intention of making you agree with me or changing your minds about anything.

I've been looking at a lot of stuff in ME1-3 and thinking about a bunch of stuff in it. Now here I have to say this is my opinion. Not a fact. Seems pointless to say so on a forum but if you don't, people can get angry sometimes. So, *deep breath* in my opinion:

this trilogy is absolutely the most mind-blowingly incredible piece of writing in gaming history and maybe outside of gaming history. It is absolutely incredible. There are layers and layers and layers. I haven't even scratched the surface. I am looking through the glass and it goes so deep i can't see anywhere near the bottom. This game is the evolution of storytelling. Nothing less. I'm gonna do my best to get to the bottom.

IT isn't even the beginning. It's like the prologue. It would have been a disservice to humanity for Bioware to be this clever and have done things any other way.

Peace

The best so far. But I'm sure there are going to be much better stories in the future. The real value of ME series is its complexity.

[Davik Kang]

401 Kill wrote...
I think a repost is in order!

Well as you asked so nicely...

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

The Illusive Man is a derelict Reaper.

So I hear....

Not that it matters, everything after Arrival is a hallucination.

yeah, it's just a near death experience right before the super nova.

[BatmanTurian]

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys. No rage here. It has been a pleasure talking to you all about all this stuff. I hope to continue by covering a few points here and there. Bounce ideas around.

Let me just say this now so I never have to say it again. This isn't an attack I promise. Honestly. Just stating something and I don't have any intention of making you agree with me or changing your minds about anything.

I've been looking at a lot of stuff in ME1-3 and thinking about a bunch of stuff in it. Now here I have to say this is my opinion. Not a fact. Seems pointless to say so on a forum but if you don't, people can get angry sometimes. So, *deep breath* in my opinion:

this trilogy is absolutely the most mind-blowingly incredible piece of writing in gaming history and maybe outside of gaming history. It is absolutely incredible. There are layers and layers and layers. I haven't even scratched the surface. I am looking through the glass and it goes so deep i can't see anywhere near the bottom. This game is the evolution of storytelling. Nothing less. I'm gonna do my best to get to the bottom.

IT isn't even the beginning. It's like the prologue. It would have been a disservice to humanity for Bioware to be this clever and have done things any other way.

Peace

I'm not even sure why I should be mad. I couldn't agree more with every word you typed.

[CmdrShep80]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

I'll just dart in, say my piece, and get out. I feel the need to pop in every few weeks and spread some logic.

WHY. IS. THIS. THREAD. STILL. GOING. ?.?.?.?.

GIVE. IT. UP.

And I'm out. Haha, you can't argue if I don't stay now can you?

Well we can't argue if you don't even bring up any points either. What a child.

we could send you messages and post your responses. But then we don't argue we discuss, debate, and engage in meaningful conversations that advances what we believe in.  Who doesn't enjoy that?  Oh wait...

[Humakt83]

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys. No rage here. It has been a pleasure talking to you all about all this stuff. I hope to continue by covering a few points here and there. Bounce ideas around.

Let me just say this now so I never have to say it again. This isn't an attack I promise. Honestly. Just stating something and I don't have any intention of making you agree with me or changing your minds about anything.

I've been looking at a lot of stuff in ME1-3 and thinking about a bunch of stuff in it. Now here I have to say this is my opinion. Not a fact. Seems pointless to say so on a forum but if you don't, people can get angry sometimes. So, *deep breath* in my opinion:

this trilogy is absolutely the most mind-blowingly incredible piece of writing in gaming history and maybe outside of gaming history. It is absolutely incredible. There are layers and layers and layers. I haven't even scratched the surface. I am looking through the glass and it goes so deep i can't see anywhere near the bottom. This game is the evolution of storytelling. Nothing less. I'm gonna do my best to get to the bottom.

IT isn't even the beginning. It's like the prologue. It would have been a disservice to humanity for Bioware to be this clever and have done things any other way.

Peace

Why would we rage? That was somewhat the same revelation I got back in March, few days after I completed the game. I never hated the "ending", I was fascinated by it.

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:18 .

[spotlessvoid]

There's a fine line between vague and brilliant, between deep and convoluted.

Although I truly respect Davik, Megumi, and Bill, as well as their opinion on this particular issue, I disagree.

It's a change in genre in the last 10 minutes. It's so convoluted that nobody has managed to create a theory not full of plot holes that also resolve the immediate and overarching plot.

If writing stories that require the reader/player to come up with explanations for the resolution of the central plot is the future I'm sticking with non fiction.

I'm all for being challenged to look for a deeper meaning. I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

[401 Kill]

Davik Kang wrote...

401 Kill wrote...
I think a repost is in order!

Well as you asked so nicely...

It has been solved!

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

There's a fine line between vague and brilliant, between deep and convoluted.

Although I truly respect Davik, Megumi, and Bill, as well as their opinion on this particular issue, I disagree.

It's a change in genre in the last 10 minutes. It's so convoluted that nobody has managed to create a theory not full of plot holes that also resolve the immediate and overarching plot.

If writing stories that require the reader/player to come up with explanations for the resolution of the central plot is the future I'm sticking with non fiction.

I'm all for being challenged to look for a deeper meaning. I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

I think we should wait for the DLC cycle to end before we cast complete judgement since each DLC changes the ending a little.

[spotlessvoid]

Leviathan made no change to the ending

[401 Kill]

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

There's a fine line between vague and brilliant, between deep and convoluted.

Although I truly respect Davik, Megumi, and Bill, as well as their opinion on this particular issue, I disagree.

It's a change in genre in the last 10 minutes. It's so convoluted that nobody has managed to create a theory not full of plot holes that also resolve the immediate and overarching plot.

If writing stories that require the reader/player to come up with explanations for the resolution of the central plot is the future I'm sticking with non fiction.
I'm all for being challenged to look for a deeper meaning. I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

I think we should wait for the DLC cycle to end before we cast complete judgement since each DLC changes the ending a little.

Hmm... They said no touching the endings, yet each DLC adds to them. "What could possibly be the reason for this?"

[401 Kill]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It did not Change the endings, but added to it. Maybe with all of the DLC's...

Modifié par 401 Kill, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Davik Kang]

spotlessvoid wrote...

There's a fine line between vague and brilliant, between deep and convoluted.

Although I truly respect Davik, Megumi, and Bill, as well as their opinion on this particular issue, I disagree.

It's a change in genre in the last 10 minutes. It's so convoluted that nobody has managed to create a theory not full of plot holes that also resolve the immediate and overarching plot.

If writing stories that require the reader/player to come up with explanations for the resolution of the central plot is the future I'm sticking with non fiction.

I'm all for being challenged to look for a deeper meaning. I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

I know.  I don't have any proof.  It's just an opinion.  I could turn out to be wrong.  But I don't think so.  I think there is so much more and we haven't even started.

Let me just say that I am pretty damn sure Omega, and any DLC after that, is gonna have some pretty serious explanations for stuff, even if we don't realise that they're there.  More answers.  And more questions.  Answers within the questions,  Questions within the answers.

[CmdrShep80]

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys. No rage here. It has been a pleasure talking to you all about all this stuff. I hope to continue by covering a few points here and there. Bounce ideas around.
Let me just say this now so I never have to say it again. This isn't an attack I promise. Honestly. Just stating something and I don't have any intention of making you agree with me or changing your minds about anything.
I've been looking at a lot of stuff in ME1-3 and thinking about a bunch of stuff in it. Now here I have to say this is my opinion. Not a fact. Seems pointless to say so on a forum but if you don't, people can get angry sometimes. So, *deep breath* in my opinion:
this trilogy is absolutely the most mind-blowingly incredible piece of writing in gaming history and maybe outside of gaming history. It is absolutely incredible. There are layers and layers and layers. I haven't even scratched the surface. I am looking through the glass and it goes so deep i can't see anywhere near the bottom. This game is the evolution of storytelling. Nothing less. I'm gonna do my best to get to the bottom. 
IT isn't even the beginning. It's like the prologue. It would have been a disservice to humanity for Bioware to be this clever and have done things any other way.

welcome to the wonderful world of IT

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:27 .

[Davik Kang]

spotlessvoid wrote...
 I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

As you say, the ending didn't finish it.  It started it...

Right I'm back to digging.  Unearthing.  Grave robbing?  Speak to you all later.

[Humakt83]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It added dialogue to the Catalyst conversation.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[spotlessvoid]

Endings with double meaning like Inception and Total Recall have both endings making logical sense.

Fight Club is a fantastic example of how amazing a reveal can be.


They are also not epic narratives. Mass Effect was never presented as dark scifi until the very end for that matter. Indoctrination/hallucination being incorporated in the ending has incredibly strong clues. The narrative indoctrination theory tells is not a proven thing however. There are multiple theories that have widely different consequences that are valid. To me that's the sign of incomplete story telling.

It really doesn't fit the type of story being told for the first 100 hours.

[spotlessvoid]

401 Kill wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It did not Change the endings, but added to it. Maybe with all of the DLC's...

One utterly inconsequential piece of dialogue isn't a change. All I'm saying is there is no proven pattern to start claiming the puzzle is being completed. That's entirely theoretical at this point

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Endings with double meaning like Inception and Total Recall have both endings making logical sense.

Fight Club is a fantastic example of how amazing a reveal can be.


They are also not epic narratives. Mass Effect was never presented as dark scifi until the very end for that matter. Indoctrination/hallucination being incorporated in the ending has incredibly strong clues. The narrative indoctrination theory tells is not a proven thing however. There are multiple theories that have widely different consequences that are valid. To me that's the sign of incomplete story telling.

It really doesn't fit the type of story being told for the first 100 hours.

Mass effect was never presented as dark scifi, yet in the first mission of the first game, you see Geth impaling people on Dragon's Teeth and the disturbing prothean vision?

As for your other point. I'm of the opinion we haven't pinned down exactly what's happening. I'm hoping the DLC will start clarifying things.

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

There's a fine line between vague and brilliant, between deep and convoluted.

Although I truly respect Davik, Megumi, and Bill, as well as their opinion on this particular issue, I disagree.

It's a change in genre in the last 10 minutes. It's so convoluted that nobody has managed to create a theory not full of plot holes that also resolve the immediate and overarching plot.

If writing stories that require the reader/player to come up with explanations for the resolution of the central plot is the future I'm sticking with non fiction.
I'm all for being challenged to look for a deeper meaning. I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

No for me is not the point that it's 100% indoctrination, the point is that we cannot be sure if we get indoctrinated or not. There are many pros and a few minor cons, but you still can't be sure. That is what makes this ending excellent for me and it's also no reaper off switch that way, you simply cannot say what the result of your choice truely are because you see the game from Sheps eyes (at least 99.9% of the time) and she dies in Control and Synthesis. All I can say is that it's important to end the game in the 3(4) different EMS steps as it's interesting where stuff was changed. Doing the for me painful low EMS run helped me in my opinion to have a way better understanding then before I did that.

[Humakt83]

spotlessvoid wrote...
Mass Effect was never presented as dark scifi until the very end for that matter.

Reapers alone make Mass Effect dark scifi. Add husks and indoctrination to it, and the trilogy is very dark indeed.

Heck, we had to sacrifice whole Batarian colony with over hundred thousand individuals just to buy couple more months to prepare for an invasion.

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

Leviathan made some serious errors in the ending, most dialog paths don't make much sense.

[spotlessvoid]

Davik Kang wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...
 I am not in favor of the artist absolving himself from finishing the story

As you say, the ending didn't finish it.  It started it...

Right I'm back to digging.  Unearthing.  Grave robbing?  Speak to you all later.

Well then I hope the future content speaks for itself.

[spotlessvoid]

Dumb Action movies have a ton of gore. Mass Effect was a space opera.