80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Humakt83 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It added dialogue to the Catalyst conversation.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Can't tell, if the detail is in the kid I don't see it, if it's for Shep then a FemShep/BroShep isn't the best way to show it.

[plfranke]

Even if the indoctrination theory turned out to be true it would not make mass effect the most mind blowingly great written thing of all time. However, if you think that to start with there's no use in me trying to convince you otherwise as if you came to that conclusion you are too far gone to be reasoned with in that regard.

[Humakt83]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It added dialogue to the Catalyst conversation.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Can't tell, if the detail is in the kid I don't see it, if it's for Shep then a FemShep/BroShep isn't the best way to show it.

Child leans his head forward with eyes open wide before he answers to Shepard's question in original (looks like "Catalyst" was attempting to read the answer from Shepard's mind).

There's a pause too in the EC before Child answers the question, but he does not make the same subtle motion.

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:48 .

[hiraeth]

i just noticed something kinda cool- i'm sure you guys have picked up on this, but i figured i'd throw my two cents out:

in the dream sequences, if you leave the borders of the dream, a cinematic pops up where it redirects shepard and the redirection *always* ends with the sound of a reaper. i just did this a few times, and it gives the impression of a reaper being mad at you for trying to avoid the boy and leave the dream. i thought this was interesting and it seems consistent with theory that these dreams are indoctrination attempts.

i mean, it's easy enough to just redirect shepard without adding a reaper noise every time you try to leave the dream, right?

[spotlessvoid]

I hear you Megumi. But having no idea what happens at all after 100+ hours doesn't cut it for me. Additionally, because the face value ending is impossible, the question of was it something else/more is actually answered. The question of what else it could be hasn't been given enough information to be properly resolved

[AresKeith]

plfranke wrote...

Even if the indoctrination theory turned out to be true it would not make mass effect the most mind blowingly great written thing of all time. However, if you think that to start with there's no use in me trying to convince you otherwise as if you came to that conclusion you are too far gone to be reasoned with in that regard.

The only down-side to IT is that Bioware sold an incomplete game, but many people already feel that

[401 Kill]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

i just noticed something kinda cool- i'm sure you guys have picked up on this, but i figured i'd throw my two cents out:

in the dream sequences, if you leave the borders of the dream, a cinematic pops up where it redirects shepard and the redirection *always* ends with the sound of a reaper. i just did this a few times, and it gives the impression of a reaper being mad at you for trying to avoid the boy and leave the dream. i thought this was interesting and it seems consistent with theory that these dreams are indoctrination attempts.

i mean, it's easy enough to just redirect shepard without adding a reaper noise every time you try to leave the dream, right?

Oh yeah, I have noticed that. Very interesting.

[BatmanTurian]

plfranke wrote...

Even if the indoctrination theory turned out to be true it would not make mass effect the most mind blowingly great written thing of all time. However, if you think that to start with there's no use in me trying to convince you otherwise as if you came to that conclusion you are too far gone to be reasoned with in that regard.

plah. Look, people will disagree with you sometimes.

[BatmanTurian]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

i just noticed something kinda cool- i'm sure you guys have picked up on this, but i figured i'd throw my two cents out:

in the dream sequences, if you leave the borders of the dream, a cinematic pops up where it redirects shepard and the redirection *always* ends with the sound of a reaper. i just did this a few times, and it gives the impression of a reaper being mad at you for trying to avoid the boy and leave the dream. i thought this was interesting and it seems consistent with theory that these dreams are indoctrination attempts.

i mean, it's easy enough to just redirect shepard without adding a reaper noise every time you try to leave the dream, right?

I remember that, but I don't remember the Reaper noise. cool, though.

[BatmanTurian]

AresKeith wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Even if the indoctrination theory turned out to be true it would not make mass effect the most mind blowingly great written thing of all time. However, if you think that to start with there's no use in me trying to convince you otherwise as if you came to that conclusion you are too far gone to be reasoned with in that regard.

The only down-side to IT is that Bioware sold an incomplete game, but many people already feel that

I see no down-side. Incomplete games are now expected. They're never complete without the DLC, which helps fund the next game. I can't understand this complaint on its face, though I understand the story is incomplete.

[spotlessvoid]

Btw the point that we see it from Shepard's view works against what you are saying. From Shepard's view we should be aware of what happens after taking the destroy breath

[AresKeith]

BatmanTurian wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Even if the indoctrination theory turned out to be true it would not make mass effect the most mind blowingly great written thing of all time. However, if you think that to start with there's no use in me trying to convince you otherwise as if you came to that conclusion you are too far gone to be reasoned with in that regard.

The only down-side to IT is that Bioware sold an incomplete game, but many people already feel that

I see no down-side. Incomplete games are now expected. They're never complete without the DLC, which helps fund the next game. I can't understand this complaint on its face, though I understand the story is incomplete.

I mean that Bioware pulled a Capcom and sold the actual ending, but at this point people are saying they would pay for a better ending and better Earth mission

[spotlessvoid]

I think what he meant is that without ending dlc it's incomplete

[MegumiAzusa]

Humakt83 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It added dialogue to the Catalyst conversation.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Can't tell, if the detail is in the kid I don't see it, if it's for Shep then a FemShep/BroShep isn't the best way to show it.

Child leans his head forward with eyes open wide before he answers to Shepard's question in original (looks like "Catalyst" was attempting to read the answer from Shepard's mind).

There's a pause too in the EC before Child answers the question, but he does not make the same subtle motion.

The head motion looks rather like an animation bug with the head snapping to the position where it should have been, and is anything but subtle. The only other main difference I can see when comparing femshep with femshep is that they improved Shepards head movement.

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw the point that we see it from Shepard's view works against what you are saying. From Shepard's view we should be aware of what happens after taking the destroy breath

No, because that's the point where the game ends

[xsamplexample]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Leviathan made no change to the ending

It added dialogue to the Catalyst conversation.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Can't tell, if the detail is in the kid I don't see it, if it's for Shep then a FemShep/BroShep isn't the best way to show it.

Child leans his head forward with eyes open wide before he answers to Shepard's question in original (looks like "Catalyst" was attempting to read the answer from Shepard's mind).

There's a pause too in the EC before Child answers the question, but he does not make the same subtle motion.

The head motion looks rather like an animation bug with the head snapping to the position where it should have been, and is anything but subtle. The only other main difference I can see when comparing femshep with femshep is that they improved Shepards head movement.

this is very interesting, but it very well may just be a glitch fix.  I noticed the wide eyes during my first playthrough, but I didnt notice they changed it in EC.  I wonder if Bioware changed their planned ending AGAIN.....

[Humakt83]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone else notice this but EC changed some very minor detail of gesture on the scene where Catalyst tells what its name is.

Original:
Who are you?

EC:
Who are you?

Notice the difference?

Can't tell, if the detail is in the kid I don't see it, if it's for Shep then a FemShep/BroShep isn't the best way to show it.

Child leans his head forward with eyes open wide before he answers to Shepard's question in original (looks like "Catalyst" was attempting to read the answer from Shepard's mind).

There's a pause too in the EC before Child answers the question, but he does not make the same subtle motion.

The head motion looks rather like an animation bug with the head snapping to the position where it should have been, and is anything but subtle. The only other main difference I can see when comparing femshep with femshep is that they improved Shepards head movement.

Original with Male Shepard

Shepard does not matter in this scene. I don't think it was a bug, IMO it looks natural enough to be intentional.

xsamplexample wrote...

this is very interesting, but it very well may just be a glitch fix.  I noticed the wide eyes during my first playthrough, but I didnt notice they changed it in EC.  I wonder if Bioware changed their planned ending AGAIN.....

I considered such for a brief moment, but it is a very minor detail and it is impossible to draw conjunctions from it.

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 02:16 .

[spotlessvoid]

I'm going to drop it after this:

Putting aside the possibility of bad writing, we do not have an is it or isn't it ending. Literal isn't possible with good writing. I think we all agree on that in this thread. Which leaves us with an it isn't ending. Problem is we aren't equipped with everything we need to answer what it is. That's not deep. It's just vague.

I have trouble seeing how those question can be answered without making the ending seem completely bat **** insane. If the crucible is revealed as a super weapon then how f'ing stupid would choosing anything but destroy be? You would, automatically know the options are wrong, making the end retarded.

If they reveal it's trap before the ending then why the heck would they still make the beam run? Or build it?

Some questions only make sense to answer after the ending.

If it's just waiting a year and paying $50 just for them to slightly reinforce the possibility of IT without v explaining any of the post decision consequences, then we aren't really any farther along than in march. But I'm out more time and money then and the story hasn't been advanced one bit. No thanks.

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm going to drop it after this:

Putting aside the possibility of bad writing, we do not have an is it or isn't it ending. Literal isn't possible with good writing. I think we all agree on that in this thread. Which leaves us with an it isn't ending. Problem is we aren't equipped with everything we need to answer what it is. That's not deep. It's just vague.

I have trouble seeing how those question can be answered without making the ending seem completely bat **** insane. If the crucible is revealed as a super weapon then how ****g stupid would choosing anything but destroy be? You would, automatically know the options are wrong, making the end retarded.

If they reveal it's trap before the ending then why the heck would they still make the beam run? Or build it?

Some questions only make sense to answer after the ending.

If it's just waiting a year and paying $50 just for them to slightly reinforce the possibility of IT without v explaining any of the post decision consequences, then we aren't really any farther along than in march. But I'm out more time and money then and the story hasn't been advanced one bit. No thanks.

I can understand that.

[TSA_383]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

i just noticed something kinda cool- i'm sure you guys have picked up on this, but i figured i'd throw my two cents out:

in the dream sequences, if you leave the borders of the dream, a cinematic pops up where it redirects shepard and the redirection *always* ends with the sound of a reaper. i just did this a few times, and it gives the impression of a reaper being mad at you for trying to avoid the boy and leave the dream. i thought this was interesting and it seems consistent with theory that these dreams are indoctrination attempts.

i mean, it's easy enough to just redirect shepard without adding a reaper noise every time you try to leave the dream, right?

I remember that, but I don't remember the Reaper noise. cool, though.

I'm getting major deja vu from 3000 pages ago 

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys. No rage here. It has been a pleasure talking to you all about all this stuff. I hope to continue by covering a few points here and there. Bounce ideas around.

Let me just say this now so I never have to say it again. This isn't an attack I promise. Honestly. Just stating something and I don't have any intention of making you agree with me or changing your minds about anything.

I've been looking at a lot of stuff in ME1-3 and thinking about a bunch of stuff in it. Now here I have to say this is my opinion. Not a fact. Seems pointless to say so on a forum but if you don't, people can get angry sometimes. So, *deep breath* in my opinion:

this trilogy is absolutely the most mind-blowingly incredible piece of writing in gaming history and maybe outside of gaming history. It is absolutely incredible. There are layers and layers and layers. I haven't even scratched the surface. I am looking through the glass and it goes so deep i can't see anywhere near the bottom. This game is the evolution of storytelling. Nothing less. I'm gonna do my best to get to the bottom. 

IT isn't even the beginning. It's like the prologue. It would have been a disservice to humanity for Bioware to be this clever and have done things any other way.

Peace

My point exactly.

But we're just so DAMNED IMPATIENT!!!!!

I mean, it's not like it's not obvious...

Bill Casey wrote...

Shepard: After everything he's done, the Illusive Man can't pretend he's fighting for humanity. Anyone who isn't indoctrinated has to see that by now.
_______________________________________________________________

Prothean VI: We were sabotaged from within. A splinter group argued we should dominate the Reapers rather than destroy them. It fractured our order of battle. Later, we discovered the separatists were indoctrinated.
_______________________________________________________________

Illusive Man: No... I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?

PARAGON
Shepard: You've been spending too much time with the enemy. They're dragging you over to their side--their way of thinking. 

Illusive Man: No, I just... see things differently.

RENEGADE
Shepard: The Reapers have it right? You're indoctrinated! You're doing just what they want.

Illusive Man: I could say the same of you, wasting time on a war that can't be won.
_______________________________________________________________

Javik: In our cycle, entire planets were lost because a few leaders were indoctrinated. They urged their armies to fight one another.

_______________________________________________________________

Ashley: I can't believe it came to that. We were so close to...

Shepard: Ash, it's okay. We figured it out. We stopped Udina and got to walk away. That's the important part. 

Ashley: I can't believe he was responsible for all of it. Was he indoctrinated?

Shepard: It's hard to say. 

Ashley: How do we fight something that can worm its way into your head?

Shepard: I don't know, but we don't have a choice.

It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 

[Ithurael]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm going to drop it after this:

Putting aside the possibility of bad writing, we do not have an is it or isn't it ending. Literal isn't possible with good writing. I think we all agree on that in this thread. Which leaves us with an it isn't ending. Problem is we aren't equipped with everything we need to answer what it is. That's not deep. It's just vague.

I have trouble seeing how those question can be answered without making the ending seem completely bat **** insane. If the crucible is revealed as a super weapon then how ****g stupid would choosing anything but destroy be? You would, automatically know the options are wrong, making the end retarded.

If they reveal it's trap before the ending then why the heck would they still make the beam run? Or build it?

Some questions only make sense to answer after the ending.

If it's just waiting a year and paying $50 just for them to slightly reinforce the possibility of IT without v explaining any of the post decision consequences, then we aren't really any farther along than in march. But I'm out more time and money then and the story hasn't been advanced one bit. No thanks.

I know you've dropped but you realize that IT doesn't really need any more content right?

Bioware has stated over and over that the endings are done and no shep in ME4 whether we believe that is up to the individual. Bill Casey gives a great reason as to why IT doesn't need any more content at all. nor does it need shep to wake up in ME4 That is what is mind blowing about it. The ending to the Thing is the most appropriate example for a parallel- its F*cking brilliant!

IT is fine as is - ending at the breath scene.

[PsiMatrix]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Everything about the decision chamber deals in opposites and illusions.

The catalyst is represented as a child, yet the reapers are old.

When you are running towards the conduit the sky was up, the earth was down.



Now the sky is down, the earth is up



Red= destroy renegade, blue= control, good and paragon

So if we are dealing with opposites... than it's time to see what really is happening. Let's invert the color and find out the truth:


Oily shadows....

Conduit beam looks a lot more menacing...

Just replaying ME1 and I encountered the Rachni Queen. At the point where you can ask about her; two sentences suddenly LEPT OUT:

"No. We-- I do not know what happened in the war. We only heard
discordance, songs the color of oily shadows"


"A tone from space hushed one
voice after another. It forced the singers to resonate with its own
sour, yellow note"

Co-incidence?

[plfranke]

I will also drop it after this. There are things outside the ending that hinder this game as a story, things like the mass effect 2 plot being largely meaningless to the overall mass effect series, the character assasinations of Legion, TIM and the forced conflict in the Genophage arc, the Crucible plot, introduction of new characters without satisfactory resolutions to old ones, the list goes on and on.

While in theory, implementation of IT could fix SOME of these problems and could certainly placate people from paying attention to the ones that aren't fixed, it does not mean that they do not exist. The fact that you would have to add on to what should be considered the real story is in itself not good writing.

[401 Kill]

Those inverted colors...

No, it can't be a coincidence. There is line where coincidences start becoming intentional, and we are well past that line.