80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Humakt83]

TSA_383 wrote...
It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 

Quality takes time. Be patient. 

Modifié par Humakt83, 22 octobre 2012 - 02:43 .

[TJBartlemus]

PsiMatrix wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Everything about the decision chamber deals in opposites and illusions.

The catalyst is represented as a child, yet the reapers are old.

When you are running towards the conduit the sky was up, the earth was down.



Now the sky is down, the earth is up



Red= destroy renegade, blue= control, good and paragon

So if we are dealing with opposites... than it's time to see what really is happening. Let's invert the color and find out the truth:


Oily shadows....

Conduit beam looks a lot more menacing...

Just replaying ME1 and I encountered the Rachni Queen. At the point where you can ask about her; two sentences suddenly LEPT OUT:

"No. We-- I do not know what happened in the war. We only heard
discordance, songs the color of oily shadows"


"A tone from space hushed one
voice after another. It forced the singers to resonate with its own
sour, yellow note"

Co-incidence?

NICE. 

[TJBartlemus]

Humakt83 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 

Quality takes time. Be patient. 

Now I wish I had a time machine... 

[spotlessvoid]

Disagree Ithurael. Whether the thing was one of the two survivors, on the loose or dead- all three are possible. That's not the case in ME. The "main"ending is total crap. I contend all we've provern in this thread is the literal ending is impossible, that the Reapers are working on indoctrinating Shepard, and that there seems to be parts of the end that dont appear real. What we have not proven is indoctrination as presented in this thread. All the other examples this ending is compared to clearly spell out what the other possibilities are. Mass Effect has not accomplished that.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 22 octobre 2012 - 02:57 .

[plfranke]

Ithurael wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm going to drop it after this:

Putting aside the possibility of bad writing, we do not have an is it or isn't it ending. Literal isn't possible with good writing. I think we all agree on that in this thread. Which leaves us with an it isn't ending. Problem is we aren't equipped with everything we need to answer what it is. That's not deep. It's just vague.

I have trouble seeing how those question can be answered without making the ending seem completely bat **** insane. If the crucible is revealed as a super weapon then how ****g stupid would choosing anything but destroy be? You would, automatically know the options are wrong, making the end retarded.

If they reveal it's trap before the ending then why the heck would they still make the beam run? Or build it?

Some questions only make sense to answer after the ending.

If it's just waiting a year and paying $50 just for them to slightly reinforce the possibility of IT without v explaining any of the post decision consequences, then we aren't really any farther along than in march. But I'm out more time and money then and the story hasn't been advanced one bit. No thanks.

I know you've dropped but you realize that IT doesn't really need any more content right?

Bioware has stated over and over that the endings are done and no shep in ME4 whether we believe that is up to the individual. Bill Casey gives a great reason as to why IT doesn't need any more content at all. nor does it need shep to wake up in ME4 That is what is mind blowing about it. The ending to the Thing is the most appropriate example for a parallel- its F*cking brilliant!

IT is fine as is - ending at the breath scene.

This is simply not true at all. Bill Casey's explanation came down to, Shepard's breath symbolizes we win. It would be like if at the end of LotR, Frodo is standing at the bottom of the Mountain weakened, no way to get up with the Nazghul closing in on his position. He enters a hallucination where he must decide to throw the ring in the fire or keep it for himself. He decides to throw the ring in the fire and all of a sudden wakes up in a pile of rubble and takes a breath.

Think about how terrible that is compared to the actual ending of LotR and tell me that it's good writing.  You get no closure on a looming character Gollum (The Illusive Man) or Sam (Anderson), any of your squad (Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, etc...) You can assume that Frodo (Shepard) made it and destroyed the ring if you want to be delusional but then you have to wonder why the Nazghul (Harbinger) wouldn't have stopped him.  There's so many holes and no closure that it would be so much worse an ending than what we have. However if you choose to interperet it like that, it's your choice. You're very wrong about it being good writing though.

[401 Kill]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 

Quality takes time. Be patient. 

Now I wish I had a time machine... 

Lets build one! Then we could travel into the future, record how this turns out, then post it here! It's the perfect plan! Problem solved!

[TJBartlemus]

plfranke wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

I'm going to drop it after this:

Putting aside the possibility of bad writing, we do not have an is it or isn't it ending. Literal isn't possible with good writing. I think we all agree on that in this thread. Which leaves us with an it isn't ending. Problem is we aren't equipped with everything we need to answer what it is. That's not deep. It's just vague.

I have trouble seeing how those question can be answered without making the ending seem completely bat **** insane. If the crucible is revealed as a super weapon then how ****g stupid would choosing anything but destroy be? You would, automatically know the options are wrong, making the end retarded.

If they reveal it's trap before the ending then why the heck would they still make the beam run? Or build it?

Some questions only make sense to answer after the ending.

If it's just waiting a year and paying $50 just for them to slightly reinforce the possibility of IT without v explaining any of the post decision consequences, then we aren't really any farther along than in march. But I'm out more time and money then and the story hasn't been advanced one bit. No thanks.

I know you've dropped but you realize that IT doesn't really need any more content right?

Bioware has stated over and over that the endings are done and no shep in ME4 whether we believe that is up to the individual. Bill Casey gives a great reason as to why IT doesn't need any more content at all. nor does it need shep to wake up in ME4 That is what is mind blowing about it. The ending to the Thing is the most appropriate example for a parallel- its F*cking brilliant!

IT is fine as is - ending at the breath scene.

This is simply not true at all. Bill Casey's explanation came down to, Shepard's breath symbolizes we win. It would be like if at the end of LotR, Frodo is standing at the bottom of the Mountain weakened, no way to get up with the Nazghul closing in on his position. He enters a hallucination where he must decide to throw the ring in the fire or keep it for himself. He decides to throw the ring in the fire and all of a sudden wakes up in a pile of rubble and takes a breath.

Think about how terrible that is compared to the actual ending of LotR and tell me that it's good writing.  You get no closure on a looming character Gollum (The Illusive Man) or Sam (Anderson), any of your squad (Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, etc...) You can assume that Frodo (Shepard) made it and destroyed the ring if you want to be delusional but then you have to wonder why the Nazghul (Harbinger) wouldn't have stopped him.  There's so many holes and no closure that it would be so much worse an ending than what we have. However if you choose to interperet it like that, it's your choice. You're very wrong about it being good writing though.

I understand what you are saying. All I have a problem with is how you used a fantasy book to compare stories with a sci-fi game.  Not really a good metaphor to use in this situation. 

[Ithurael]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Disagree Megumi. Whether the thing was one of the two survivors, on the loose or dead- all three are possible. That's not the case in ME. The "main"ending is total crap. I contend all we've provern in this thread is the literal ending is impossible, that the Reapers are working on indoctrinating Shepard, and that there seems to be parts of the end that dont appear real. What we have not proven is indoctrination as presented in this thread. All the other examples this ending is compared to clearly spell out what the other possibilities are. Mass Effect has not accomplished that.

EDIT: you changed it

I will agree that the main ending is crap (or at the very least not befitting in the series)

Whether or not IT is canon for bioware remains up for debate, though I have reviewed much of the proof (I disagree with using flycam these days as what the player can see shapes the interpretation) in the IT documentaries as well as much of what is presented here.

All of it does fit the interpretation of the IT. How did you not prove the indoctrination? Do you really need post ending DLC for this?

I like the interpretation of Inception because it gives rise to the thought that maybe everything never happened, maybe he was dreaming and could no longer tell the difference between realtiy (alice madness returns does this rather well).

What I am saying is that IT is just as valid and true without any post-ending DLC. Bioware acknowledges that IT is a valid possibility but at the same time says the endings stay as is.

Modifié par Ithurael, 22 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .

[TJBartlemus]

401 Kill wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 

Quality takes time. Be patient. 

Now I wish I had a time machine... 

Lets build one! Then we could travel into the future, record how this turns out, then post it here! It's the perfect plan! Problem solved!

Funny thing is...I thought of that exact same thing before...  (shared memories) 

[Ithurael]

plfranke wrote...

This is simply not true at all. Bill Casey's explanation came down to, Shepard's breath symbolizes we win. It would be like if at the end of LotR, Frodo is standing at the bottom of the Mountain weakened, no way to get up with the Nazghul closing in on his position. He enters a hallucination where he must decide to throw the ring in the fire or keep it for himself. He decides to throw the ring in the fire and all of a sudden wakes up in a pile of rubble and takes a breath.

Think about how terrible that is compared to the actual ending of LotR and tell me that it's good writing.  You get no closure on a looming character Gollum (The Illusive Man) or Sam (Anderson), any of your squad (Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, etc...) You can assume that Frodo (Shepard) made it and destroyed the ring if you want to be delusional but then you have to wonder why the Nazghul (Harbinger) wouldn't have stopped him.  There's so many holes and no closure that it would be so much worse an ending than what we have. However if you choose to interperet it like that, it's your choice. You're very wrong about it being good writing though.

I will admit that using a fantasy novel to compare to a sci fi novel is...a risky move...but the priiizzee:P

I will also admit that I am a literalist, but the draw of IT is the unknown. And one of the foundations of Lovecraftian horror is the unknown. Leaving it at a breath does not offer any closure, but at the same time the themes covered leading up to it are brilliant!

Modifié par Ithurael, 22 octobre 2012 - 03:06 .

[401 Kill]

[quote]TJBartlemus wrote...

[quote]401 Kill wrote...

[quote]TJBartlemus wrote...

[quote]Humakt83 wrote...

[quote]TSA_383 wrote...
It's just, I'd really like to see them hurry up and implement it properly 
[/quote]Quality takes time. Be patient. 
[/quoteNow I wish I had a time machine... :crying:
[/quote]Lets build one! Then we could travel into the future, record how this turns out, then post it here! It's the perfect plan! Problem solved!
[/quote]Funny thing is...I thought of that exact same thing before...  (shared memories) 
[/quote]BSN is slowly becoming indoctrinated! I'm glad I'm safe because of my recent move to Alaska. That was a long drive...

[ZerebusPrime]

The real trouble with leaving the game in an "either you get it or you don't" state is that that's not what I paid for. :-D

[401 Kill]

SwobyJ wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote..
The Illusive Man is a derelict Reaper.

So I hear...

Not that it matters, everything after Arrival is a hallucination.

My Shepard never played Arrival, so I am safe.

Hehe...
But in a way, it is. It's a VERY SLOWLY gradually increasing hallucinatory experience. It only gets super strong after Thessia/Cerberus Base, and takes over entirely after the beam run, and full blown indoctrinating experience when you meet the 'Catalyst'.
Just have to pay attention.

Just to elaborate on my post, I was being sarcastic and using flawed logic, it is canon to have Shepard do Arrival.

[TJBartlemus]

401 Kill wrote...
BSN is slowly becoming indoctrinated! I'm glad I'm safe because of my recent move to Alaska. That was a long drive...

You trolling me? 

[401 Kill]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

The real trouble with leaving the game in an "either you get it or you don't" state is that that's not what I paid for. :-D

Let's hope it will be elaborated on:D.

[plfranke]

Ithurael wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is simply not true at all. Bill Casey's explanation came down to, Shepard's breath symbolizes we win. It would be like if at the end of LotR, Frodo is standing at the bottom of the Mountain weakened, no way to get up with the Nazghul closing in on his position. He enters a hallucination where he must decide to throw the ring in the fire or keep it for himself. He decides to throw the ring in the fire and all of a sudden wakes up in a pile of rubble and takes a breath.

Think about how terrible that is compared to the actual ending of LotR and tell me that it's good writing.  You get no closure on a looming character Gollum (The Illusive Man) or Sam (Anderson), any of your squad (Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf, etc...) You can assume that Frodo (Shepard) made it and destroyed the ring if you want to be delusional but then you have to wonder why the Nazghul (Harbinger) wouldn't have stopped him.  There's so many holes and no closure that it would be so much worse an ending than what we have. However if you choose to interperet it like that, it's your choice. You're very wrong about it being good writing though.

I will admit that using a fantasy novel to compare to a sci fi novel is...a risky move...but the priiizzee:P

I will also admit that I am a literalist, but the draw of IT is the unknown. And one of the foundations of Lovecraftian horror is the unknown. Leaving it at a breath does not offer any closure, but at the same time the themes covered leading up to it are brilliant!

You're walking a fine line there though. Because if we're just talking about themes, the literal interperetation covers brilliant themes too.

[401 Kill]

TJBartlemus wrote...

401 Kill wrote...
BSN is slowly becoming indoctrinated! I'm glad I'm safe because of my recent move to Alaska. That was a long drive...

You trolling me? 

I have no idea what you mean:whistle:.

(Just to be clear, you said shared memories, so I stated something that I remembered you did, but stated that it was something I did (like ME2) to add to the whole "Shared Memories". I hope I have not offended you by this:unsure:, I don't know how to comprehend your statement).

[plfranke]

The problem I have with the "IT doesn't need any new content" is this. One of the biggest clues towards IT is how ridiculous the ending sequence is. However, these people that say IT doesn't need content to function seem to not care at all how ridiculous it would be for us to just assume Shepard wins after waking up on Earth. If the only important thing is "the themes" then why are the themes present in choosing destroy control or synthesis important? If we don't care about closure or explaining how we would defeat the Reapers, then why should we care about plausibility or explanation on how control or synthesis would be possible?