80611 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrShep80]

It could be ME4 is a continuation of the war but we won't really know till after the citadel dlc. Maybe by doing that one the ending will offer a 5th choice? Or like I said earlier the rest of the breath scene ending?

Edit and the phone creates a double post to the top of IT. Or maybe I'm still in the dream?

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[Andromidius]

MisterX867 wrote...

I can't believe barely anything was said about this: http://social.biowar...7/1519#14610101

Interesting, but what's 'inverting the colours'? 

i.e.. Can someone else recreate that effect in a meaningful manner that isn't just photoshopping it.

The whole 'turning your world upside down' idea is brilliant though, I love that.  And its very true - it means Harbinger would actually be standing 'under' Control.  But because Shepard is confused and dying, its harder to notice you're actually upside down and thus perspectives have been flipped.

[MaximizedAction]

Indeed, inrerestingly many existential, philosophical questions. I mean, it's not really in a time of war that the question of reality an illusion are on people's mind (except for maybe "I wish this is all just a bad dream").

Or maybe I'm wrong and people don't just think about basic survival..luckily I've never been in a war...

[WolfyZA]

..... I WANT TO BELIEVE!

[plfranke]

rofl I'm listening to the me2 squad reactions to rewriting the heretics and get what garrus says "That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination."

[plfranke]

Wow so much good stuff in that mission. Some parts are even identical to the Catalyst in structure. "Why didn't you mention this before" just like Why didn't you do synthesis already (can't remember the exact quote) "We didn't know it was possible". Shepard even says "I would never brainwash an organic race".

[plfranke]

SwobyJ wrote...

MisterX867 wrote...

I can't believe barely anything was said about this: http://social.biowar...7/1519#14610101

It only shows, possibly, that we're in a far more advanced form of enthrallment (aka super-indoctrination) than the Leviathans could create.

super indoctrination makes sense considering Harbinger is made of countless Leviathans and has had at least a billion years to work on his game.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Bill Casey wrote...


EDI: Shepard, I can confirm that this is the real world.

Joker: Oh, okay, well that'll solve that. Man, good thing we have an unshackled AI around to tell us what reality is.

EDI: Perhaps I missed some salient information.
_______________________________________________

Great quotes Bill, but I didn't ever hear the last bit mentioned above from EDI after the Consensus mission . Joker just stopped after saying his bit, maybe it was a sound bug.

Here, have another quote! (paraphrasing)

Ashley: How do you fight something that can worm its way into your head?

Shepard: I don't know...but we don't have a choice.

[Bill Casey]

Andromidius wrote...

MisterX867 wrote...

I can't believe barely anything was said about this: http://social.biowar...7/1519#14610101

Interesting, but what's 'inverting the colours'? 

i.e.. Can someone else recreate that effect in a meaningful manner that isn't just photoshopping it.

The whole 'turning your world upside down' idea is brilliant though, I love that.  And its very true - it means Harbinger would actually be standing 'under' Control.  But because Shepard is confused and dying, its harder to notice you're actually upside down and thus perspectives have been flipped.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_(photography)


I checked in Paint Shop Pro, and it is indeed the negative image...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 octobre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Andromidius]

Thanks for the info. That is very interesting, why did no-one notice it before?

Considering how Bioware have repeatedly stated that they put painstaking detail into the ending sequence and conversations... This has to be deliberate. Starbinger alone just looks creepy as hell, and it adds a whole new subliminal meaning to it all!

[BleedingUranium]

SwobyJ wrote...

plfranke wrote...

rofl I'm listening to the me2 squad reactions to rewriting the heretics and get what garrus says "That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination."

Haha my boyfriend just did this mission but only brought Tali.

I was thinking the same though.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and he rewrote the heratics.

I'm worried at what ending of ME3 he will pick now, even with EC and Leviathan installed (and maybe Omega if he takes his time) ...

I rewrote the Heretics and I'm sticking with that. This was actually the hardest decision in ME for me, I was torn about it for a long time. Then I realised something: you and your squadmates don't have the full picture. Garrus, Samara, and Jack's views are great, but they're not seeing the whole thing. You're not brainwashing them, you're unbrainwashing them! The Heretics are indoctrinated, and by rewriting them you're returning them to their original state. Let me put it another way: If you had the choice to either kill or unindoctrinate everyone in Cerberus, what would you do? Right, it's a no-brainer, and the Heretics are no different.

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

Thanks for the info. That is very interesting, why did no-one notice it before?

Considering how Bioware have repeatedly stated that they put painstaking detail into the ending sequence and conversations... This has to be deliberate. Starbinger alone just looks creepy as hell, and it adds a whole new subliminal meaning to it all!

I saw it when it was first posted but didn't get a chance to comment. It's very cool!

[Andromidius]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I rewrote the Heretics and I'm sticking with that. This was actually the hardest decision in ME for me, I was torn about it for a long time. Then I realised something: you and your squadmates don't have the full picture. Garrus, Samara, and Jack's views are great, but they're not seeing the whole thing. You're not brainwashing them, you're unbrainwashing them! The Heretics are indoctrinated, and by rewriting them you're returning them to their original state. Let me put it another way: If you had the choice to either kill or unindoctrinate everyone in Cerberus, what would you do? Right, it's a no-brainer, and the Heretics are no different.

I'm in two minds about it as well.  Its more akin to fixing a defect, a defect that was caused (either directly or indirectly) by Sovereign.  Something in their code at the core level that made them see things differently - though as Legion states, they aren't wrong either.

The question really is, are they serving Reapers with free will or not?  Its hard to gauge.

However, considering the fact they were planning (and able) to recode every other Geth to comform to their way of thinking when the Concensus was unsure about whether it should do the same in return does suggest some kind of manipulation involved.

I go the safe route and destroy them.  Its only a small percentage of the total Geth, and its better to keep them uncorrupted if there's a chance there's more to the Heretics then just a minor code difference.

Though of course they all go running to the Reapers anyway, after the Quarians decide to attack them.  Go figure!

[BleedingUranium]

SwobyJ wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

plfranke wrote...

rofl I'm listening to the me2 squad reactions to rewriting the heretics and get what garrus says "That sounds dangerously close to indoctrination."

Haha my boyfriend just did this mission but only brought Tali.

I was thinking the same though.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and he rewrote the heratics.

I'm worried at what ending of ME3 he will pick now, even with EC and Leviathan installed (and maybe Omega if he takes his time) ...

I rewrote the Heretics and I'm sticking with that. This was actually the hardest decision in ME for me, I was torn about it for a long time. Then I realised something: you and your squadmates don't have the full picture. Garrus, Samara, and Jack's views are great, but they're not seeing the whole thing. You're not brainwashing them, you're unbrainwashing them! The Heretics are indoctrinated, and by rewriting them you're returning them to their original state. Let me put it another way: If you had the choice to either kill or unindoctrinate everyone in Cerberus, what would you do? Right, it's a no-brainer, and the Heretics are no different.

Yep its understandable, which is why Bioware doesn't so strongly penalty you for rewriting them (its a bit harder to achieve peace but still quite possible if you did everything else right).

But the THEMES are there. Will you consciously change everyones' minds, or would you rather destroy them?

I always do everything "right", as in, I'll always be able to make peace, so the only consequence is more Geth vs more Quarians, and I'd rather more Geth.

[BleedingUranium]

Andromidius wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

I rewrote the Heretics and I'm sticking with that. This was actually the hardest decision in ME for me, I was torn about it for a long time. Then I realised something: you and your squadmates don't have the full picture. Garrus, Samara, and Jack's views are great, but they're not seeing the whole thing. You're not brainwashing them, you're unbrainwashing them! The Heretics are indoctrinated, and by rewriting them you're returning them to their original state. Let me put it another way: If you had the choice to either kill or unindoctrinate everyone in Cerberus, what would you do? Right, it's a no-brainer, and the Heretics are no different.

I'm in two minds about it as well.  Its more akin to fixing a defect, a defect that was caused (either directly or indirectly) by Sovereign.  Something in their code at the core level that made them see things differently - though as Legion states, they aren't wrong either.

The question really is, are they serving Reapers with free will or not?  Its hard to gauge.

However, considering the fact they were planning (and able) to recode every other Geth to comform to their way of thinking when the Concensus was unsure about whether it should do the same in return does suggest some kind of manipulation involved.

I go the safe route and destroy them.  Its only a small percentage of the total Geth, and its better to keep them uncorrupted if there's a chance there's more to the Heretics then just a minor code difference.

Though of course they all go running to the Reapers anyway, after the Quarians decide to attack them.  Go figure!

That's exactly what it came down to for me. I see both decisions as "good". What's interesting is that when you first hear about the option to rewrite, it seems like a bad thing, and destroying them seems best. But once you have more information, and when the actual decision comes, rewriting is Paragon and destroying is Renegade.

While that does make sense, as Paragons would want to help/save everyone, and Renegades will take the safer/more destructive path, what's interesting is that when choosing to save or destroy the Collector base in the very same game, destroying it is Paragon and keeping it is Renegade.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Andromidius]

BleedingUranium wrote...
While that does make sense, as Paragons would want to help/save everyone, and Renegades will take the safer/more destructive path, what's interesting is that when choosing to save or destroy the Collector base in the very same game, destroying it is Paragon and keeping it is Renegade.

Its almost like we're being buttered up to the notion that 'Paragon =/= best choice'.  And it escalates.

Heretic Geth - either choice has little overall effect.

Collector Base - only has an effect if you rush through ME3 and don't get enough EMS.

Crucible - your choice alters the fabric of reality.

[Jusseb]

When all the DLC is released and we still have the ending were Shepard takes 'The Breath' and then it ends...

It would just be plain ass lame.

We'd probably spent tons of hours in 'our' Shepard, just to end it like that? It's all ok for being a 'cliffhanger' but if it's 'our' real ending then it's the worst ending off all time.

I just can't believe that the writers would end like that? After playing ME1 and ME2 for dozens of times, creating such a compelling story and then that ending?

It's like the writers said, well... time's up, just let him take a breath and let the player 'imagine' how it ends.

F*ck me.

Modifié par Jusseb, 22 octobre 2012 - 08:37 .