Ce sujet est ferméEDIT (added high lol)
Modifié par CmdrShep80, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
#38501
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:18
CmdrShep80
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Basically the Wiki is presumably saying that destroy is the one to go with under EC and non-EC versions and the wiki is saying the best ending is if you pass the high EMS requirements that shows the breath scene. Though I don't get why they lowered the requirements when something like Leviathan and even Omega puts you at 7000+ unless they plan on adding something after you pass 10k or something?
EDIT (added high lol)
EDIT (added high lol)
Retour en haut
#38502
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:19
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Dwailing wrote...
NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Tell that to the super Control and Synthesis supporters.... If IT is proven true through DLC (I know it to be true) Banshee, would everyone really be happy and impressed?
Haha you did spam post Banshee
You know what? At this point, I don't give a **** about what the extreme Control and Synthesis supporters think. They're the ones who have been giving us crap since this started. They deserve a big, fat slice of humble pie. And if they don't like it, then they can just not buy the DLC, and live in their illusion.
That's Bioware's plan and just why the endings were designed the way they were.
It's both a genius and annoying DLC plan
#38503
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:20
byne
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CmdrShep80 wrote...
Basically the Wiki is presumably saying that destroy is the one to go with under EC and non-EC versions and the wiki is saying the best ending is if you pass the high EMS requirements that shows the breath scene. Though I don't get why they lowered the requirements when something like Leviathan and even Omega puts you at 7000+ unless they plan on adding something after you pass 10k or something?
EDIT (added high lol)
They lowered it so you could get the breath scene with 50% readiness.
#38504
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:20
CmdrShep80
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leonia42 wrote...
You realise the Wiki is maintained by fans, right? It's not "official". The quality of the information for ME3 has been subpar compared to the previous two games (and all other material).
That's why it's a wiki lol. It's just interesting to notice what it does and what the predominant themes that are being selected are
#38505
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:21
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plfranke wrote...
I just watched Leviathan and remembered how awesome it was the first time I saw Leviathan's epic speech at the end. Then I remembered that he never showed up at the end and I died a little bit inside.
This.. is still awesome though. youtu.be/aSJujqOsBTk
EPISODE 3 PLEASEEEE? I hope they're not waiting for Omega to come out... pfft...
#38506
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:21
CmdrShep80
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byne wrote...
CmdrShep80 wrote...
Basically the Wiki is presumably saying that destroy is the one to go with under EC and non-EC versions and the wiki is saying the best ending is if you pass the high EMS requirements that shows the breath scene. Though I don't get why they lowered the requirements when something like Leviathan and even Omega puts you at 7000+ unless they plan on adding something after you pass 10k or something?
EDIT (added high lol)
They lowered it so you could get the breath scene with 50% readiness.
I thought that was possible for anyone who didn't play MP and did everything right over 3 games could reach 5k?
#38507
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:22
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spotlessvoid wrote...
"So make the reveal the final DLC. Not only does that make sense from a storytelling perspective, but then all the previous DLC sells anyway"
what's the worst that can happen?
Fanrage 2.0?
More publicity for a game that's finished it's cycle anyways. The bottom line doesnt get hurt. My guess is Bioware feels the same way about synthesis supporters as we do anyways.... haha
IT can also set up some amazing sequel in this cycle even without commander shepard.
"Mathemagician"
Yep, Bioware loves Synthesis. It's the 'best' ending.
#38508
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:23
byne
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CmdrShep80 wrote...
byne wrote...
CmdrShep80 wrote...
Basically the Wiki is presumably saying that destroy is the one to go with under EC and non-EC versions and the wiki is saying the best ending is if you pass the high EMS requirements that shows the breath scene. Though I don't get why they lowered the requirements when something like Leviathan and even Omega puts you at 7000+ unless they plan on adding something after you pass 10k or something?
EDIT (added high lol)
They lowered it so you could get the breath scene with 50% readiness.
I thought that was possible for anyone who didn't play MP and did everything right over 3 games could reach 5k?
Not 5k EMS, no.
#38509
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:23
BansheeOwnage
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Bioware called the breath scene the "best ending".CmdrShep80 wrote...
[*]
[*]If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
[*]If EMS is 4000+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs 5000+ EMS to see this short scene).
[*]If EMS is 4000+ then three crew members will exit in the Destroy and Control endings; Joker and two of the player's most-favored crew mates.[/list]
Besides, why else would it have by far the most EMS required? Almost double synthesis if Anderson is shot. Also, this is another example of an impossibility. Why would Shepard survive because Anderson didn't get shot? Oh, right. Because he represents the "clean" part of Shepard's mind. The crew getting out is the same thing.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:25 .
#38510
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:24
BansheeOwnage
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Yeah I know. It's BS. The people there suck. But you can get solid info there like EMS numbers.leonia42 wrote...
You realise the Wiki is maintained by fans, right? It's not "official". The quality of the information for ME3 has been subpar compared to the previous two games (and all other material).
#38511
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:24
byne
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SwobyJ wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
"So make the reveal the final DLC. Not only does that make sense from a storytelling perspective, but then all the previous DLC sells anyway"
what's the worst that can happen?
Fanrage 2.0?
More publicity for a game that's finished it's cycle anyways. The bottom line doesnt get hurt. My guess is Bioware feels the same way about synthesis supporters as we do anyways.... haha
IT can also set up some amazing sequel in this cycle even without commander shepard.
"Mathemagician"
Yep, Bioware loves Synthesis. It's the 'best' ending.
When I chose Synthesis on my renegade character, and this song didnt start playing, I was totally confused for a second.
I've watched it so many times I actually forgot "Space Magic" isnt the way it actually happens in game.
#38512
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:27
BansheeOwnage
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Wow, they stole it from Blur's sig. Next they're gonna steal mine. :/SwobyJ wrote...
plfranke wrote...
I just watched Leviathan and remembered how awesome it was the first time I saw Leviathan's epic speech at the end. Then I remembered that he never showed up at the end and I died a little bit inside.
This.. is still awesome though. youtu.be/aSJujqOsBTk
EPISODE 3 PLEASEEEE? I hope they're not waiting for Omega to come out... pfft...
#38513
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:28
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SwobyJ wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
demersel wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
It always felt like there is much more to it, like the semi husk Trooper on Mars, and the one Trooper at the end of Sur-Kesh, the explanation of Sanctuary was a bit lame.AresKeith wrote...
I really didn't like how they made Cerberus feel like the main enemy in ME3
Maybe because it didn't actually explain anything and we don't yet know their plan at all?
Things that are part of their plan - mars archives, citadel coup, sanctuary - all as far as we know succeded. They also got some sort of deal with the salarians, namely the Dalatress, since they do some dirty work for her. (Sur-Kesh, tuchanka bomb) - but this work is payment. Payment for what? We don't yet know.
Eden Prime dig site - also is part of their plan.
Benning is very weird too. - we don't actually know what exactly happened there.
Plus there is Omega, that is not even touched upon yet.
Belive me, we haven't even started to see cerberus in action.
I seriously hope that in Omega we will finally be revealed TIM / Cerberus's intentions and plans. It is really bugging me...
His intention was to control. He wanted power and reapers are a lot of power. I don't think there's going to be anything beyond that other than maybe why omega was relevant to him, which I suspect had to do with the relay and getting that protoreaper back. Omega's location was pretty key regarding that.
Honestly, I always felt he was connected to the collectors and getting shepard dead so he could have her alive again to help him get to the reapers. And I'm certain he sent a salvage team to get that dead reaper after the IFF run. That's where they got the tech from. I'm wondering if he somehow got connected with the reapers much sooner than we find out about the IFF mission and perhaps that derilict reaper went back to EDIs creation back around ME1 time frame given it has reaper tech. He always struck me as equal to Saren's level of indoctrination throughout ME2. But by ME3 he's more obsessed to the point of insane.
No there has got to be more...why make a DLC about Cerberus then if there is no twist?
I always got the feeling that TIM was constantly referring to things that Shepard/the player doesn't understand yet.
Especially if, say, Shepard is the Catalyst and TIM knows that.
I ALWAYS believed Shepard was the catalyst from the minute the idea came forth.
After reading about Omega a bit more, I guess there is a lot more to do with Cerberus and Tim that will be revealed. I still think that there's a lot going on that we didn't see that is why they have to do Omega. Like I'm certain he has had reaper tech from the minute he discovered the derelict reaper which was probably ME1 since it was used to create EDI. So I'm even questioning whether we'll find out that he orchestrated the collector attack on her ship. Also, if he did somehow trigger the collector attack that killed her it would make sense as to why in the opening of ME2 he is discussing what sounds like the Lazarus project with miranda but the attack hasn't taken place yet. THAT has always driven me nuts. It's a conversation that makes no sense. He wants Shepard. Miranda is clearly not in the know because she's talking about how Alliance has shepard going after geth. Yet Illusive Man seems to be on a different page where he knows something. Now granted, it wasn't a gaurantee that she would be spaced, but then again, with the way they were hit by the collectors it was pretty miraculous that so many got into pods. Finally, that they got there before the alliance to scoop shepard up. I always felt like he had a team ready to get shepard. On standby. Plus, I think his agenda was to always get that collector base tech. He knew all along that it could be salvaged and wanted it. He just used shepard as the tool to get him there and get the base and maybe recruit shepard long term. He clearly didn't count of Shepard blowing it up. But it also didn't matter, probably because he had plans for omega.
I'm curious if anyone else thought these things about ME2 as well. I'm totally convinced it was a set up to get shepard from minute one, and he was working with the collectors at some level. I even suspect the collector ship mission was structured by him. Maybe even the colony attack was as well. Like he guided it every step of the way, knowing what each next thing would be that shepard would do so he could get the tech for himself. Anyone?
#38514
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:28
Arashi08
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I think it does at least prove that despite the claims of literalists, ITers don't believe every nonsensical IT-related theory out there. Of course maybe literalists never thought this and I'm just making it up without realizing it...it's late lolbyne wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
demersel wrote...
Guys. Again - TIM is a reaper, a demaged, nearly dead rogue reaper. that uses Jack Harper as a front. He is aware that he is a reaper, but since he is demaged and nearly dead - he doesn't think like all the rest of them - he merged with Jack Harper and liked being a human - so he wants to promote humanity to be the new high race - he wants to BECOME humanity, and wants humanity to become him. He also wants to take down harbinger for some reason. In ME2 we talked to him directly - so his office was a a dream like thing - like the leviathan illusion. However, in the reaper IFF mission - he makes a gamble - shows shepard his true body, which shepard destroys. And from that point on he's either dead, with just the jack harper puppet running loose, or he is left with some back up systems (like the reaper heart). So after that he get's even more limited - basicly becomes human, and then gets indoctrinated himself. In ME2 - everytime we talk to him via QEC - we just tap directly into his brain and he produces his "office" as a space where we communicate. However in ME3 he no longer does that - he can't - he is trapped in Jack Harper, so he uses/builds a real office, and makes it as close as he can to his mental comfort space - but it is different (the floor is all wrong, for example) - the human reaper inside cronos - it is the real illusive man - he was building one of his own, but was doing it too slow - harbinger made a trap for him - the one he could not resist - started building his dream without him - that is why he wanted you to keep the base - he wanted to transpalnt himself into a new body, stop harbinger from ruining his dream, takeover his assest and use it himself.
That is why he calls himself "illusive" man - cause he does not exist and is not really a man.
I don't agree with this at all,
I only see a man who continuously straddles the line between a genius plan to stop the Reapers, and total indoctrination. He's strong enough to struggle... but he's not Shepard. Yet this doesn't mean he won't have something very useful to offer in a DLC etc.
Demersel, he had a physical version of that office in the very beginning of ME2. Miranda was clearly there with him in the room.
Also, he calls himself the Illusive Man because thats what the Alliance called him, and he liked the name.
Your TIM is a Reaper idea really doesnt make any sense. No offense.
#38515
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:28
CmdrShep80
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
Bioware called the breath scene the "best ending".CmdrShep80 wrote...
[*]
[*]If EMS is 2800+ the Synthesis ending becomes available.
[*]If EMS is 4000+ and the Destroy option is chosen, Shepard is seen barely alive, gasping for breath (if Anderson is shot by the Illusive Man, the player needs 5000+ EMS to see this short scene).
[*]If EMS is 4000+ then three crew members will exit in the Destroy and Control endings; Joker and two of the player's most-favored crew mates.[/list]
IGN's spoiler reveals of the ending - I thought this was kinda fun. They covered up all the ending options. You click on them to reveal what happens. Shepard's fate "dies" under everything but the destroy breath scene. If that's not so obvious I don't know what is? EDIT - also it's interesting how IGN lists that your squadmates are "synthesized" under synthesis but not under destroy or control
Modifié par CmdrShep80, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:31 .
#38516
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:29
xsamplexample
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Bioware, please just make an alternate ending where IT is true. Keep your artistic integrity, let us have IT. Make everyone happy. Thats what you claim to want anyways.....
#38517
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:31
AdrynBliss
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I've been out of the loop for a little while so forgive me if this has been addressed but isn't it possible that the announcement of ME4 might end up proving indoctrination theory wrong? unless ME4 is in the past or 25-50 odd thousand years in to the future it would mean shep wasn't indoctrinated and succeeded. For another tale to be told in a relatively close time period AFTER the war the reapers would of had to of been defeated.
#38518
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:31
BansheeOwnage
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#38519
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:32
BleedingUranium
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byne wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
"So make the reveal the final DLC. Not only does that make sense from a storytelling perspective, but then all the previous DLC sells anyway"
what's the worst that can happen?
Fanrage 2.0?
More publicity for a game that's finished it's cycle anyways. The bottom line doesnt get hurt. My guess is Bioware feels the same way about synthesis supporters as we do anyways.... haha
IT can also set up some amazing sequel in this cycle even without commander shepard.
"Mathemagician"
Yep, Bioware loves Synthesis. It's the 'best' ending.
When I chose Synthesis on my renegade character, and this song didnt start playing, I was totally confused for a second.
I've watched it so many times I actually forgot "Space Magic" isnt the way it actually happens in game.
I'm still confused as to why this doesn't play in Leviathan
#38520
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:34
byne
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!byne wrote...
When I chose Synthesis
Abandon ship!
On my Renegade character. She deserved to be punished. She was a horrible person.
#38521
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:34
CmdrShep80
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xsamplexample wrote...
Bioware, please just make an alternate ending where IT is true. Keep your artistic integrity, let us have IT. Make everyone happy. Thats what you claim to want anyways.....
+1, or just add to what's already there and make it just epic! I say do something like "Shepard's indoctrination" youtube video. I would love a flashback style ending like that in between your choice and when you breathe again and maybe what happens to you as the camera pans back from Shepard in the rubble based on the 3 ending choices (since refuse really does explain it all just fine for refuse for myself)
#38522
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:35
BansheeOwnage
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We really know nothing about ME4. Certainly not enough to prove/disprove IT.AdrynBliss wrote...
I've been out of the loop for a little while so forgive me if this has been addressed but isn't it possible that the announcement of ME4 might end up proving indoctrination theory wrong? unless ME4 is in the past or 25-50 odd thousand years in to the future it would mean shep wasn't indoctrinated and succeeded. For another tale to be told in a relatively close time period AFTER the war the reapers would of had to of been defeated.
#38523
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:35
Bill Casey
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Pretty sure it's to sabotage the Turians...demersel wrote...
They also got some sort of deal with the salarians, namely the Dalatress, since they do some dirty work for her. (Sur-Kesh, tuchanka bomb) - but this work is payment. Payment for what? We don't yet know.
They also attack the turian colony of Aephus and use a poison tailored to turians on a turian general...
EDI comments that the Citadel is a prime Cerberus target due to C-Sec being predominantly turian and the council's unwillingness to help earth...
The pro human/anti-turian angle would explain Udina framing Executor Pallin and instilling Commander Bailey, a human. And his appointment of a second human Spectre...
Basically now that TIM has power, he's getting payback for the First Contact War...
They are looking for Prothean artifacts...Eden Prime dig site - also is part of their plan.
Like Mars Archive and Thessia...
This prothean artifact just turned out to be an actual Prothean...
#38524
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:39
ZerebusPrime
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AdrynBliss wrote...
I've been out of the loop for a little while so forgive me if this has been addressed but isn't it possible that the announcement of ME4 might end up proving indoctrination theory wrong? unless ME4 is in the past or 25-50 odd thousand years in to the future it would mean shep wasn't indoctrinated and succeeded. For another tale to be told in a relatively close time period AFTER the war the reapers would of had to of been defeated.
I visited this possibility yesterday. The other posters asked me to stop. It was a scary place...
The next game being set in the next cycle can very well prove IT right, too, just that the Reapers won and then there'd have to be some explanation as to why there are still humans around (they won't have a game without humans). I made a parallel to Xenogears' backstory and frankly let's just not go there.
#38525
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 23 octobre 2012 - 04:39
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
Oooo. Cool. I like it.SwobyJ wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
No there has got to be more...why make a DLC about Cerberus then if there is no twist?
I always got the feeling that TIM was constantly referring to things that Shepard/the player doesn't understand yet.
Especially if, say, Shepard is the Catalyst and TIM knows that.
Everyone, check it all out: youtu.be/9p2ro6Nu1GA
Keep this now in context with the Leviathans and their ability to control Reaper forces and Reaper systems.
Of course Leviathan artifacts are blue.
Also note his line about Liara missing the information in the Archives.... (hmmmmm)
"My methods for dealing with the Reapers are simply more refined than yours."
"The world is more grey than you care to admit."
"It's not that simple" (duh, if Shepard herself is the Catalyst)
