80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

3. They intended it, but won't reveal it.

In other words, somebody's a David Lynch fan...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:47 .

[demersel]

byne wrote...

Demersel, he had a physical version of that office in the very beginning of ME2. Miranda was clearly there with him in the room.

Also, he calls himself the Illusive Man because thats what the Alliance called him, and he liked the name.

Your TIM is a Reaper idea really doesnt make any sense. No offense.

Ok, my idea doesn't seem to make sense, for now. 
But think about what we know -  where is that actual office is? Right behind the giant human reaper. (how did this thing survive anyway? if you don't keep the base - the thing is still there - you get only the heart - yet the heart is actually the one thing that you destroyed 100% - you can either shoot the eyes, or the heart that is actually kills him faster.)  
Where are ALL the scientists? There are no bodies - and it isn't like they all evacuated - your attack was a surprise one. There is NOTHING in that base of value - why even protect it then? 
Yet there hordes of troops and a human reaper. And TIM's office. Which is empty. Have ever read wizard of Oz? 

I think that his office - TIM by that point of the story is actually that HUMAN reaper - he implanted himself in it and got "trapped" there. (in a now what? type of scenario) - the office is a a spot where he communicates with his servants - when they come in they enter a mental overlay like the leviathan illusion - yet the physycal empty office is there so they wouldn't suspect a thing. It is made to be as close as it can be to TIM's metnal comfort space - vitha view of a star - what is in space and has a star in its view constantly? derelict reaper. How can the star in his window change colour depending on your choices? cause it is not a real star - it is mental comfort space - like leviathan's - Leviathan is at the bottom of the ocean - so his is dark and full of water, yet when you speac to him - he creates this room for YOU so you can interpret his expressions, and understand him better. When leviathan is looking into you - you see him use a microscope.  - Same thing apply to TIM's office in ME3 - it is too perfect and too abstract - yet when you actually in the physycal room - id doesn't realy measure up - it is just a room. In ME2 - the floor is perfect - it has no defects, no lines, it is as if it isn't even there - in ME3  the floor is all wrong - it is just some reflecting tiles (not just when you are actually there - even in the cutscenes) - nothing like it was in ME2. 
You don't get an after -mission talk after the derelict reaper mission (which would be a good time to ask TIM  WTF MAN??).   
The only other time you speak to tim - is before Suicide Mission. and this is the time when TIM is out of the chair. He seems lost, powerless, he straight out tells you that - "I wish there was something else i could do..." -  His eye no longer shine with the same brightness. The core of the derelict reaper is exaclty the colour of TIM's eyes before that. If you keep the base - tim's eyes turn green. If you don't - he becomes visibly older, his eyes only shine when he's REALLY angry - that is because he is just a shell of his former self - he doesn't really make much sense after that point - that is because he has lost most of his mind when you destroyed the darelict reaper. - essentially and ironicly - he got what he wanted - he became human. For real. And given that human's mind was hevily indoctrinated - naturally he quickly became indoctrinated as a mere human would. Even though he is a villian - it is a real tragedy - imagine - a being of infinete mind, power and knoweldge - damaged and almost dead - get's attauched to a simple human - and likes it! Likes it so much that he wants to redo himself - and be reborn as a human (not just as any, but as a whole humanity - a reaper made out of humanity, and dominate the galaxy this way) - and in the end he get's trapped to be just a human. It is tragic. And get's to feel all the human things - he feels tricked, abandoned - he was making EDI to be his future girfriend - and eternal intelligence of human origin - yet she abandoned him. (You can see how bitter he is about it in ME3 when he get's the chance to speak to EDI). 

TIM personality =/= Jack Harper.  They are completely different men. At all except the memories. 
How long ago was First Contact war? In the end of the comic Jack Harper got exposed to an artifact that turned every living thing into a husk in a matter of SECONDS. He got exposed good. 
How was he able to hold out so long, yet to fall so rapidly only in ME3? 
Where did he get all his knoweldge about the reapers?
How was he able to build cerberus from NOTHING? Where did he get all the money? 

[BansheeOwnage]

Goodnight everyone.

[plfranke]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Demersel, he had a physical version of that office in the very beginning of ME2. Miranda was clearly there with him in the room.

Also, he calls himself the Illusive Man because thats what the Alliance called him, and he liked the name.

Your TIM is a Reaper idea really doesnt make any sense. No offense.

Ok, my idea doesn't seem to make sense, for now. 
But think about what we know -  where is that actual office is? Right behind the giant human reaper. (how did this thing survive anyway? if you don't keep the base - the thing is still there - you get only the heart - yet the heart is actually the one thing that you destroyed 100% - you can either shoot the eyes, or the heart that is actually kills him faster.)  
Where are ALL the scientists? There are no bodies - and it isn't like they all evacuated - your attack was a surprise one. There is NOTHING in that base of value - why even protect it then? 
Yet there hordes of troops and a human reaper. And TIM's office. Which is empty. Have ever read wizard of Oz? 

I think that his office - TIM by that point of the story is actually that HUMAN reaper - he implanted himself in it and got "trapped" there. (in a now what? type of scenario) - the office is a a spot where he communicates with his servants - when they come in they enter a mental overlay like the leviathan illusion - yet the physycal empty office is there so they wouldn't suspect a thing. It is made to be as close as it can be to TIM's metnal comfort space - vitha view of a star - what is in space and has a star in its view constantly? derelict reaper. How can the star in his window change colour depending on your choices? cause it is not a real star - it is mental comfort space - like leviathan's - Leviathan is at the bottom of the ocean - so his is dark and full of water, yet when you speac to him - he creates this room for YOU so you can interpret his expressions, and understand him better. When leviathan is looking into you - you see him use a microscope.  - Same thing apply to TIM's office in ME3 - it is too perfect and too abstract - yet when you actually in the physycal room - id doesn't realy measure up - it is just a room. In ME2 - the floor is perfect - it has no defects, no lines, it is as if it isn't even there - in ME3  the floor is all wrong - it is just some reflecting tiles (not just when you are actually there - even in the cutscenes) - nothing like it was in ME2. 
You don't get an after -mission talk after the derelict reaper mission (which would be a good time to ask TIM  WTF MAN??).   
The only other time you speak to tim - is before Suicide Mission. and this is the time when TIM is out of the chair. He seems lost, powerless, he straight out tells you that - "I wish there was something else i could do..." -  His eye no longer shine with the same brightness. The core of the derelict reaper is exaclty the colour of TIM's eyes before that. If you keep the base - tim's eyes turn green. If you don't - he becomes visibly older, his eyes only shine when he's REALLY angry - that is because he is just a shell of his former self - he doesn't really make much sense after that point - that is because he has lost most of his mind when you destroyed the darelict reaper. - essentially and ironicly - he got what he wanted - he became human. For real. And given that human's mind was hevily indoctrinated - naturally he quickly became indoctrinated as a mere human would. Even though he is a villian - it is a real tragedy - imagine - a being of infinete mind, power and knoweldge - damaged and almost dead - get's attauched to a simple human - and likes it! Likes it so much that he wants to redo himself - and be reborn as a human (not just as any, but as a whole humanity - a reaper made out of humanity, and dominate the galaxy this way) - and in the end he get's trapped to be just a human. It is tragic. And get's to feel all the human things - he feels tricked, abandoned - he was making EDI to be his future girfriend - and eternal intelligence of human origin - yet she abandoned him. (You can see how bitter he is about it in ME3 when he get's the chance to speak to EDI). 

TIM personality =/= Jack Harper.  They are completely different men. At all except the memories. 
How long ago was First Contact war? In the end of the comic Jack Harper got exposed to an artifact that turned every living thing into a husk in a matter of SECONDS. He got exposed good. 
How was he able to hold out so long, yet to fall so rapidly only in ME3? 
Where did he get all his knoweldge about the reapers?
How was he able to build cerberus from NOTHING? Where did he get all the money? 

It's too late... They've taken you.

[plfranke]

Wowky wrote...

While I think the IT has plenty of convincing points and is very cleverly put together, my biggest question is: why would Bioware wait this long to do anything about it? I mean when we were still only a few weeks after launch of the game, I could see it being a cool "long game" tactic, but we're coming up on nearly 8 months since ME3 came out. As much as I love the theory, so much time has passed that I don't know this is what they had in mind, and if they did, they are risking people just not caring by a certain point (I love ME3 and will buy all the DLC though, but I imagine others will probably get over it and if they have a "big reveal" the impact will be lost)

You're right. And that's why IT is ultimately not what Bioware intended. It was a hell of a ride though.

[CmdrShep80]

plfranke wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Later in the same assault on cerberus, Kai Leng is seen giving TIM the Prothean VI.

TIM:  The Prothean VI should enable us to determine the nature of the Catalyst.  Combined with the breakthrough at Sanctuary we have everything we need.  We just need to tie up a few loose ends.

(Later in same vid after Kai believes TIM's talking about Shepard)

TIM:  For now, Sanctuary gave us proof of concept for controlling the Reapers

Leng:  And made it a target...

TIM:  Get the data from Sanctuary

(THE VERY NEXT SCENE)

Garrus (in the vid I saw):  Looks like the human proto-Reaper we killed

Shepard:  What's left of it.  I'm surprised Cerberus recovered that much from the base

(Several lines later)

EDI:  Cerberus is actively using the surviving pieces.  The central core-analogous to the heart-is largely intact.  Cerberus is using it for a power source

(EVEN LATER during another TIM VID)

First vid involves talking about Grayson and some physical enhancements but Grayson was done in by his Red Sands addiction.  He lost his ability to manage his mental capacities

Parts of second vid: 

Scientist:  Some of our forces are already hearing voices

TIM:  When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voice they'll be hearing is ours

The 3rd video shows the scientist Jana who also sees TIM in person.  He begins a procedure.  What procedure did he perform?  What procedure did he do that didn't need anasthetics?  What procedure did he have to do that allowed him to gain the nature of the catalyst without being on the citadel itself (during the time of the vids)

THe very next scene is the walk to TIMs office without TIM.  So where did he go?

This is me trying to find some supportive evidence to demonstrate that TIM could have possibly downloaded his consciousness and merged it with a Reaper body of some kind, built by Cerberus but powered by the Reaper core from ME 2

No offense, but please don't continue that. You make us look bad to new people.

I don't even think those were the real quotes lol

I hate to tell you but they were the real quotes.  I just left some of the lines out

[spotlessvoid]

If they did a reveal of poor quality like the ec right after launch they'd be no better off a year down the line. With an end of dlc cycle reveal they get a, whole new buzz created 12 months + after launch. If they do it right they could sell a lot of trilogy packs and dlc to all the casual fans who want to see what they missed. Depending on which way they go they could set up a sequel set immediately or soon after me3 with a new protagonist. There are a number of ways they can capitalize on it

[Bill Casey]

demersel wrote...

Ok, my idea doesn't seem to make sense, for now. 
But think about what we know -  where is that actual office is? Right behind the giant human reaper. (how did this thing survive anyway? if you don't keep the base - the thing is still there - you get only the heart - yet the heart is actually the one thing that you destroyed 100% - you can either shoot the eyes, or the heart that is actually kills him faster.)  
Where are ALL the scientists? There are no bodies - and it isn't like they all evacuated - your attack was a surprise one. There is NOTHING in that base of value - why even protect it then? 
Yet there hordes of troops and a human reaper. And TIM's office. Which is empty. Have ever read wizard of Oz? 

I think that his office - TIM by that point of the story is actually that HUMAN reaper - he implanted himself in it and got "trapped" there. (in a now what? type of scenario) - the office is a a spot where he communicates with his servants - when they come in they enter a mental overlay like the leviathan illusion - yet the physycal empty office is there so they wouldn't suspect a thing. It is made to be as close as it can be to TIM's metnal comfort space - vitha view of a star - what is in space and has a star in its view constantly? derelict reaper. How can the star in his window change colour depending on your choices? cause it is not a real star - it is mental comfort space - like leviathan's - Leviathan is at the bottom of the ocean - so his is dark and full of water, yet when you speac to him - he creates this room for YOU so you can interpret his expressions, and understand him better. When leviathan is looking into you - you see him use a microscope.  - Same thing apply to TIM's office in ME3 - it is too perfect and too abstract - yet when you actually in the physycal room - id doesn't realy measure up - it is just a room. In ME2 - the floor is perfect - it has no defects, no lines, it is as if it isn't even there - in ME3  the floor is all wrong - it is just some reflecting tiles (not just when you are actually there - even in the cutscenes) - nothing like it was in ME2. 
You don't get an after -mission talk after the derelict reaper mission (which would be a good time to ask TIM  WTF MAN??).   
The only other time you speak to tim - is before Suicide Mission. and this is the time when TIM is out of the chair. He seems lost, powerless, he straight out tells you that - "I wish there was something else i could do..." -  His eye no longer shine with the same brightness. The core of the derelict reaper is exaclty the colour of TIM's eyes before that. If you keep the base - tim's eyes turn green. If you don't - he becomes visibly older, his eyes only shine when he's REALLY angry - that is because he is just a shell of his former self - he doesn't really make much sense after that point - that is because he has lost most of his mind when you destroyed the darelict reaper. - essentially and ironicly - he got what he wanted - he became human. For real. And given that human's mind was hevily indoctrinated - naturally he quickly became indoctrinated as a mere human would. Even though he is a villian - it is a real tragedy - imagine - a being of infinete mind, power and knoweldge - damaged and almost dead - get's attauched to a simple human - and likes it! Likes it so much that he wants to redo himself - and be reborn as a human (not just as any, but as a whole humanity - a reaper made out of humanity, and dominate the galaxy this way) - and in the end he get's trapped to be just a human. It is tragic. And get's to feel all the human things - he feels tricked, abandoned - he was making EDI to be his future girfriend - and eternal intelligence of human origin - yet she abandoned him. (You can see how bitter he is about it in ME3 when he get's the chance to speak to EDI). 

TIM personality =/= Jack Harper.  They are completely different men. At all except the memories. 
How long ago was First Contact war? In the end of the comic Jack Harper got exposed to an artifact that turned every living thing into a husk in a matter of SECONDS. He got exposed good. 
How was he able to hold out so long, yet to fall so rapidly only in ME3? 
Where did he get all his knoweldge about the reapers?
How was he able to build cerberus from NOTHING? Where did he get all the money?

He's indoctrinated, Reapers indoctrinate people...
They alter the way people think...

This is what Reapers do...
They indoctrinate people...
TIM got indoctrinated...

He's a reaper pawn because he's indoctrinated...
Did I mention TIM is indoctrinated? Because he's indoctrinated...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:05 .

[CmdrShep80]

plfranke wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

No offense, but please don't continue that. You make us look bad to new people.

None taken.  I just wanted to consider his idea.  I think it's worth at least exploring the concept a bit.  If it comes to nothing, then well, there just won't be much to find like synthesis, control, or literal interpretations and we'll just say it's not possible

But the problem is he has no basis for his claims at all. It would be like me saying "The Crucible will turn all synthetics into bunnies. Discuss!" It's just pointless, no evidence, no foreshadowing and no payoff if it turned out to be true. People shouldn't need to be handheld in this thread on things like this. Illusive Man is not a derelict Reaper. Just stop.

I wasn't thinking he was the derelict.  I was thinking he built his own.  Why else would the focus be on protecting the central lab during the cerberus mission?  You hear the cerberus soldiers shouting to protect the central lab with the proto reaper.  Not protect TIM

[demersel]

byne wrote...

Demersel, he had a physical version of that office in the very beginning of ME2. Miranda was clearly there with him in the room.

Define clearly. 
Did we see her touch him? 
Did we see her interact with any solid object that tim interacted with?
Did we see her interact with any solid object at all?

Again - all i'm saying - try to entertain the idea - think of his office as of a giant green screen room. If you're making a movie in a green screen room - you only need the to have items that characters touch, pick up, or interact in anyway physicly as props - everything else, including other character - may not be real. 
For example you need to shoot a scene between two characters in a green screen room. All they do is talk - they do not touch each other in any way, do not pass each other solid objects - do not interact in anyway - besides talking  - in that scenario it is perfectly reasonable to shoot only ONE actor at a time. Green screen is very difficult to light the correct way, and all the lighting that gets on the actor is more or less final - what you see is what you get - so if the scene is difficult - it may be a good idea to do one actor at a time, especially if they move - so not to mess up the lighting, when two of them are in the same shot - you first film the one of the for the shot when they are together, then film the other one - then combine them into one shot in post.  That's how you do real life movies. 

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Lyria]

BleedingUranium wrote...

paxxton wrote...

protognosis wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...

Debate is on guys, will be back after

I'm watching the debate on XboxLive to get a Halo4 avatar outfit. Lol. I'm sad.

So notice this thread has grown in size recently. Any good speculationz, info, reveals? Or is it just more Master Blaster double posts and talk of Red vs. Blue?

Microsoft is giving away Halo 4 avatars for watching the debate?

Why didn't I know about this?

You didn't check the home section when you turned on your  Xbox? Many didn't know. I watched all 4 debates via Xbox live and answered poll questions. It was fun.


 
Ill have an extra code if they send me one for guys and gals like they usually do. You had to be a part of Xbox live rewards.

I'm so behind on RvB that ive given up watching it.


 
But halo4!!!!!

Anyway, so anyone got any good speculations?

[CmdrShep80]

Bill Casey wrote...

demersel wrote...

Ok, my idea doesn't seem to make sense, for now. 
But think about what we know -  where is that actual office is? Right behind the giant human reaper. (how did this thing survive anyway? if you don't keep the base - the thing is still there - you get only the heart - yet the heart is actually the one thing that you destroyed 100% - you can either shoot the eyes, or the heart that is actually kills him faster.)  
Where are ALL the scientists? There are no bodies - and it isn't like they all evacuated - your attack was a surprise one. There is NOTHING in that base of value - why even protect it then? 
Yet there hordes of troops and a human reaper. And TIM's office. Which is empty. Have ever read wizard of Oz? 

I think that his office - TIM by that point of the story is actually that HUMAN reaper - he implanted himself in it and got "trapped" there. (in a now what? type of scenario) - the office is a a spot where he communicates with his servants - when they come in they enter a mental overlay like the leviathan illusion - yet the physycal empty office is there so they wouldn't suspect a thing. It is made to be as close as it can be to TIM's metnal comfort space - vitha view of a star - what is in space and has a star in its view constantly? derelict reaper. How can the star in his window change colour depending on your choices? cause it is not a real star - it is mental comfort space - like leviathan's - Leviathan is at the bottom of the ocean - so his is dark and full of water, yet when you speac to him - he creates this room for YOU so you can interpret his expressions, and understand him better. When leviathan is looking into you - you see him use a microscope.  - Same thing apply to TIM's office in ME3 - it is too perfect and too abstract - yet when you actually in the physycal room - id doesn't realy measure up - it is just a room. In ME2 - the floor is perfect - it has no defects, no lines, it is as if it isn't even there - in ME3  the floor is all wrong - it is just some reflecting tiles (not just when you are actually there - even in the cutscenes) - nothing like it was in ME2. 
You don't get an after -mission talk after the derelict reaper mission (which would be a good time to ask TIM  WTF MAN??).   
The only other time you speak to tim - is before Suicide Mission. and this is the time when TIM is out of the chair. He seems lost, powerless, he straight out tells you that - "I wish there was something else i could do..." -  His eye no longer shine with the same brightness. The core of the derelict reaper is exaclty the colour of TIM's eyes before that. If you keep the base - tim's eyes turn green. If you don't - he becomes visibly older, his eyes only shine when he's REALLY angry - that is because he is just a shell of his former self - he doesn't really make much sense after that point - that is because he has lost most of his mind when you destroyed the darelict reaper. - essentially and ironicly - he got what he wanted - he became human. For real. And given that human's mind was hevily indoctrinated - naturally he quickly became indoctrinated as a mere human would. Even though he is a villian - it is a real tragedy - imagine - a being of infinete mind, power and knoweldge - damaged and almost dead - get's attauched to a simple human - and likes it! Likes it so much that he wants to redo himself - and be reborn as a human (not just as any, but as a whole humanity - a reaper made out of humanity, and dominate the galaxy this way) - and in the end he get's trapped to be just a human. It is tragic. And get's to feel all the human things - he feels tricked, abandoned - he was making EDI to be his future girfriend - and eternal intelligence of human origin - yet she abandoned him. (You can see how bitter he is about it in ME3 when he get's the chance to speak to EDI). 

TIM personality =/= Jack Harper.  They are completely different men. At all except the memories. 
How long ago was First Contact war? In the end of the comic Jack Harper got exposed to an artifact that turned every living thing into a husk in a matter of SECONDS. He got exposed good. 
How was he able to hold out so long, yet to fall so rapidly only in ME3? 
Where did he get all his knoweldge about the reapers?
How was he able to build cerberus from NOTHING? Where did he get all the money?

He's indoctrinated, Reapers indoctrinate people...
They alter the way people think...

This is what Reapers do...
They indoctrinate people...

It is interesting like I said earlier when you're in that office talking to TIM, everything is like the kid sequence with the battle raging around you a bit distant but still close enough to hear the explosions.  It's almost as if you just didn't have a care in the world during the time it takes to talk to TIM and sort out the final sequence.  I wonder what EDI sees in that office during the same sequence.  She does have reaper tech installed in her so it could be she sees the same thing.

[demersel]

What happens to reapers when they get damaged or even destroyed? Each capital ship is made out of an entire civilization. So the loss of even one capital ship is unthinkable for the reapers. (this is taken from this very thread as well as the codex). Yet there is the derelict reaper - why is that the other reapers do not search it out and repair it??
Leviathan gave me the strong feeling that even though we clearly killed sovereing in ME - he's still alive and kicking - after all he's overseeing the project that searches for the leviathans. (even though there is just a tiny part of him there) - where are the other parts of him and what are they up to?
All mass effect games really give you the feeling that physical destruction is not an end for a reaper - they continue to function on some level - they continue to indoctrinate - and we know that if you have enough people indoctrinated - they decide that it would be a great idea to build a reaper out of themselves - so are dead reaper capable of being rebourn this way? What happens to their personality? How does it change?

You can all call me names and make fun of me - but those are actually great questions - and they are important for beating the reapers.

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:28 .

[jojon2se]

You know; Crazy or no - I kind of like aspects of demersel's idea.

Ever since we got to see those unused bits of draft ME2 script, I've been more than halfway convinced that ME2, in one evaluation variant of the script, did not have Harbinger and that the "Human Reaper" was in fact the remainder of the derelict reaper's consciousness/less_than_conscious_"indoctrination_motivator" using the collectors to build itself a new body (with humans as raw material). I guess there are many reasons why such an angle would be dropped, not least of all being that it could possibly give premature revelations about reaper nature.
Demersel's TIM connection could be envisioned as an adaption of that.
The inter-reaper rivalry is a bit harder to swallow, even if one try playing the they-abandoned-me-screw-them card on behalf of "derelict man".

I guess it doesn't help that people have Anders/Justice in fresh memory.

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Demersel, he had a physical version of that office in the very beginning of ME2. Miranda was clearly there with him in the room.

Define clearly. 
Did we see her touch him? 
Did we see her interact with any solid object that tim interacted with?
Did we see her interact with any solid object at all?

Again - all i'm saying - try to entertain the idea - think of his office as of a giant green screen room. If you're making a movie in a green screen room - you only need the to have items that characters touch, pick up, or interact in anyway physicly as props - everything else, including other character - may not be real. 
For example you need to shoot a scene between two characters in a green screen room. All they do is talk - they do not touch each other in any way, do not pass each other solid objects - do not interact in anyway - besides talking  - in that scenario it is perfectly reasonable to shoot only ONE actor at a time. Green screen is very difficult to light the correct way, and all the lighting that gets on the actor is more or less final - what you see is what you get - so if the scene is difficult - it may be a good idea to do one actor at a time, especially if they move - so not to mess up the lighting, when two of them are in the same shot - you first film the one of the for the shot when they are together, then film the other one - then compine them into one shot in post.  That's how you do real life movies. 

There's three definative characters in ME that have actually seen the Illusive Man where there was no tell tale glow of a holographic projection.  1)  Miranda 2)  Kai Leng 3)  Jana the scientist that "put him under" for the procedure

However, I have to agree 2 of the three characters do not show TIM being touched by the others.  In Jana's circumstance TIM cuts the video feed just as she begins the proceedure so it's implied that she actually touched him to install something (in him or from him).  However, when was the video of the procedure created?  During ME3, during ME2, or during ME1?  There's no timestamp for any of TIM's video with the exception of at least two.  We don't really know.  It's implied that the procedure took place after Kai recovers the data from Sanctuary and after finding the Prothean VI but again we don't know since Shepard, EDI, Kai, and cerberus soldiers all have implants based on Reaper tech, implying that the Sanctuary project has been going on for a while or else they would have had more failed projects during the Sanctuary mission. 

We do know that the videos of the Lazarus project was created between ME 1 and ME 2.
We also know that the video of EDI's construction was done also sometime after UNC: Rogue VI in ME 1 and ME 2 when you meet EDI for the first time on the Normandy

So it could be a hypothosis that TIM's procedures took place between ME 1 and ME 2 NOT at all during ME 3.  Don't forget BioWare enjoys misleading us all and gives us double meanings about details (and the lack of details) of what really happened.

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

The thing about the video of Jana - that is the only time we see TIM outside of his office. And it is just a video.

So let's assume for a second that tim is a reaper, a mind of a reaper, and at the moment we arrive at cronos station  - he is actually that human reaper that is inside the station - connected to every system of it. - that part is actually perfectly logical and does not even require him being a reaper in the first place - if TIM is a reap man, the procedure he could be him transferring his mind into a human reaper. 


Now, imagine - there is a station with a human reaper inside that is connected to ALL of it systems -(EDI confirms it - she say that they are using the human reaper as central processor for the station) - so naturally he controll all everything in it including all the screens. Where is the all the personal? there isn't any - they are not needed - TIM runs everything personally being a reaper. 

And even if he isn't - how had it is to fabricate a video? Any one can do it. ANYONE. 

Note how all the videos shepard finds - are ALL about shepard. It is as if something is showing him only what it wants to make him thing and behave a certain way. 

[CmdrShep80]

 To add:  Kai Length had physical contact waaay back in the book retribution-

The Illusive Man ordered Leng to exterminate Grayson when the experiment became too dangerous to continue, or if he got out of control. However, when a turian strike team raided the research facility that housed Grayson, Leng chose to rescue the Illusive Man rather than kill Grayson, meaning Grayson was rescued by the turians

but none observed since

Jana according to the old deception book ( till its revised)-

Jana[/b] is the Illusive Man's assistant in2186. Her duties include assigningCerberus operatives to tasks that are beneath the Illusive Man's attention, filtering calls and messages, and acting as a guide on the rare occasion people are allowed to meet the Illusive Man. She is described as having black hair, large brown eyes, and a full figure. Before joining Cerberus, Jana was a military officer of unspecified affiliation.Kai Leng wondered how human Jana really was, and believed the Illusive Man was trying to groom her for a greater role.

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 To add:  Kai Length had physical contact waaay back in the book retribution-

The Illusive Man ordered Leng to exterminate Grayson when the experiment became too dangerous to continue, or if he got out of control. However, when a turian strike team raided the research facility that housed Grayson, Leng chose to rescue the Illusive Man rather than kill Grayson, meaning Grayson was rescued by the turians

but none observed since

Jana according to the old deception book ( till its revised)-

Jana[/b] is the Illusive Man's assistant in2186. Her duties include assigningCerberus operatives to tasks that are beneath the Illusive Man's attention, filtering calls and messages, and acting as a guide on the rare occasion people are allowed to meet the Illusive Man. She is described as having black hair, large brown eyes, and a full figure. Before joining Cerberus, Jana was a military officer of unspecified affiliation.Kai Leng wondered how human Jana really was, and believed the Illusive Man was trying to groom her for a greater role.

When is retribution set? Before or after ME2?

Besides i never said that tim didn't have a physical body - he did have one - that of Jack Harper. He just assumes direct control of him like Harbinger does of collector general, and you know what? Illusive Man's eye shine blue - the colour of derelict reaper core. When he doesn't do that Jack Harper still acts as Illusive man - his mind is too rewritten by now, i is just that he isn't the FULL illusive man. It's like syncronising your IPod with your desktop. Illusive man is an Ipod, Derelict reaper is Desktop. In ME2 he tried to take away harbingers experiment of making humans into reaper, and perhaps creating a new template, because he thought about it first - harbinger watch shepard to become the mind of human reaper - Derelict watch to be reborne as human reaper - If harbinger succedes - there won't be a place for him. He'll just be discarded. 

[CmdrShep80]

 @demersel- so basically you're saying cronos station is TIM?  Or the station is just a cover for The real vessel underneath which happens to be TIM?

[demersel]

 Compare -
this - ME2

with this - ME3 (the floor for example)

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 @demersel- so basically you're saying cronos station is TIM?  Or the station is just a cover for The real vessel underneath which happens to be TIM?

By the time of ME3 Cronos station is TIM. 

[demersel]

From wikipedia:

Chronos was imagined as a god, serpentine in form, with three heads—those of a man, a bull, and a lionHe and his consort, serpentine Ananke (Inevitability), circled the primal world egg in their coils and split it apart to form the ordered universe of earth, sea and sky. He is not to be confused with the Titan Cronus.
He was depicted in Greco-Roman mosaics as a man turning the Zodiac WheelChronos, however, might also be contrasted with the deity Aion as Eternal Time
Chronos is usually portrayed through an old, wise man with a long, grey beard, such as "Father Time". Some of the current English words whose etymological root is khronos/chronos include chronology, chronometer, chronic, anachronism, and chronicle.


However  - there is another Cronus 

In the most classic and well known version of Greek mythology, Cronus or Kronos[1] (Ancient Greek: Κρόνος Krónos) was the leader and the youngest of the first generation of Titans, divine descendants of Gaia, the earth, and Uranus, the sky. He overthrew his father and ruled during the mythological Golden Age, until he was overthrown by his own son, Zeus and imprisoned in Tartarus.Cronus was usually depicted with a sickle or scythe, which was also the instrument he used to castrate and depose Uranus, his father. In Athens, on the twelfth day of the Attic month of Hekatombaion, a festival called Kronia was held in honour of Cronus to celebrate the harvest, suggesting that, as a result of his association with the virtuous Golden Age, Cronus continued to preside as a patron of harvest. Cronus was also identified in classical antiquity with the Roman deitySaturn.

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:07 .

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 @demersel- so basically you're saying cronos station is TIM?  Or the station is just a cover for The real vessel underneath which happens to be TIM?

and we did kill him by destroying the station - the only part that is left of him - is inside shepard's mind. Which strengly is the place where you later meet him again.   A memory, idea of him inside shepard's mind- is all that is left. As is a memory and idea of Anderson, since the real anderson is indoctrinated and not the man he used to be - is also all that is left of him - and in final scene - they confront each other and shepard! 

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

[CmdrShep80]

 Was reading up on TIM and noticed this - I wonder if Omega dlc will further the info about TIM's interest in Grayson and why it was so important. Plus I wonder if Jack and the biotic kids are indoctrinated in some form due to this:

In Mass Effect: Retribution, Paul Grayson, alias Paul Johnson, is on Omega, working as an enforcer for Aria T'Loak, and is also involved with Aria's daughter, Liselle. Under Aria's orders, he steals a shipment of red sand from the Talons, a turian gang who have become more prominent after a recent shakeup within Omega's underworld. He has a crisis of conscience, as he does not want to give the red sand to Aria, and is fearful of relapsing into his old addictions. He is found by Cerberus operative Kai Leng, who reports his whereabouts to the Illusive Man. Grayson is soon kidnapped and implanted with Reaper technology, as part of an experiment to study indoctrination. Though the Illusive Man had planned to kill Grayson before he became too dangerous, an attack by the Turian Hierarchy gave Grayson a chance to escape. As the indoctrination grew more powerful, he felt a prisoner in his own body. The indoctrinated Grayson eventually made it to Jon Grissom Academy, as the Reapers were interested in the biotic potential of its students, with Leng, Dr. Sanders, and Admiral Anderson in hot pursuit. Grayson was mortally wounded when Anderson blasted him with a shotgun at point blank range. Kai Leng then executes Grayson with two bullets to the head. Afterward, Anderson and Sanders make plans to autopsy Grayson's body and study the Reaper technology within him in the hopes of learning how to fight the Reapers.

ME 3- During the assault on Cerberus's headquarters, Cronos Station, Shepard finds video logs detailing Grayson's fate. The Reaper implants within him proved useful in adapting the technology for Cerberus' forces.

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 @demersel- so basically you're saying cronos station is TIM?  Or the station is just a cover for The real vessel underneath which happens to be TIM?

and we did kill him by destroying the station - the only part that is left of him - is inside shepard's mind. Which strengly is the place where you later meet him again.   A memory, idea of him inside shepard's mind- is all that is left. As is a memory and idea of Anderson, since the real anderson is indoctrinated and not the man he used to be - is also all that is left of him - and in final scene - they confront each other and shepard! 

we didn't destroy the station. We just damaged it badly. The final scenes play out with Kai Leng then with Vendetta. After that it's back to the Normandy. -       After he's defeated, there will be a Renegade interrupt opportunity as Leng sneaks up on you and attempts to stab you. If you don't use the interrupt, Shepard will dodge; if you do, Shepard will block the blade and shatter it. Immediately after, Shepard will follow it up with an omni-blade attack, putting an end to Kai Leng once and for all.You will then have a last conversation with the Prothean VI with an option for a renegade interrupt, or if you wait, a paragon one. Finally you will return to the Normandy for a debrief with Anderson.