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[Restrider]

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)

Yeah I know, but BSN just butchered the --WHOLE-- list, so I need backup.

[Restrider]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
the results for the eigth poll are out. The list (!!!UPDATED!!!) has been updated and I would like to encourage you to participate at the tenth poll and my long-time survey about your choice at your first playthrough. Spread the word!
I also made another survey on a totally unrelated topic that still needs to be resolved.

And please think about a way to incorporate Anderson's behaviour in London and the datapad hinting that the beam is a huge con into one of the IT's Top Ten points. I'd also appreciate it, if you could provide me with links.

[paxxton]

Restrider, congrats on completing the list!

[Eryri]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Plus, I want destroy to end it. Not for shepard to be stuck under a pile of rubble and the reapers are still there because then we don't have any ending and it diminishes IT entirely. Previous BW games that pulled this (Neverwinter nights, I believe) gave you an ending. You had to come out of it the illusion or whatever it was, but the ending was there. This deviates from that in that you have no ending if it happens at the beam. That's really sticking it to us.

That's true. If you had told me I would have to pay extra to receive the true endings to the game 7 months ago I would have said "Hell No!" 

However it depends on how much value for money it is. If our hypothesised IT dlc extends the story by another 5-10 hours or so and culminates in some epic battle, where if you do everything right you're rewarded with an LI reunion and Blue Babies (or equivalent) then that would be on the order of a true expansion pack.

The example I like to use is Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal which really extended the story in a meaningful way, almost like a mini-sequel. I would be prepared to pay £15 - £20 for that kind of content provided it was well reviewed - and by fans, not by the likes of Colin Moriarty.

[demersel]

That's true, but really, the most important part about mass effect 3 - beating the indoctrination - is in the game. And tha game IS about that - it is about shepard's personal journey. Beating reapers in full - that probably happen only in ME4 - which will function differently. (far all we know it could be a global strategy, like sins of solar empire). What is left - is a reveal, and some epilogue DLC.


I look at the Take Earth Back trailer - and i see Shepard AFTER london - determined, unstoppable. I look at the launch picture - and i see shepard AFTER london - waking up and seeing that the war is still on. I look at the collector's edition box art and I see the picture of the ending to ME3 there. 

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:18 .

[demersel]

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Modifié par demersel, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:31 .

[Eryri]

starlitegirlx wrote...


The sad part is that given Leviathan wasn't really awesome gameplay but did have information that was worthwhile, and now Omega is looking like it's going to have intensive gameplay and information, then maybe there is hope. However, they keep saying they aren't changing the ending and adding to the ending or extending it is a change. Well, more of an addition but still a change. The problem is that for IT people, we don't even know where the heck the true trigger started. We just know there is an indoctrination taking place and pick destroy. But we don't know for sure if destroy is a wake up out of the indoctrination or if it actually a destroying of all the reapers. That's aggravating so I go with it's a destroy since I'm not putting faith in BW to do anything right since they changed the ending because of the leak and it was done half assed so now were all trying to make sense of something that could have been brilliantly done.

If I cling to the hope that they're going to change the endings so that we have specific answers, I'm about one thought shy of indoctrination myself.

My own, slightly forlorn, hope is that the Star Gazer scene, set umpteen thousand years in the future, is what they actually mean by "the ending". Anything before that would then be fair game for revision. Then the "no new endings" comment wouldn't be a lie so much as something "differently true". 

Modifié par Eryri, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[demersel]

Eryri wrote...

My own, slightly forlorn, hope is that the Star Gazer scene, set umpteen thousand years in the future, is what they actually mean by "the ending". Anything before that would then be fair game for revision. Then the "no new endings" comment wouldn't be a lie so much as something "differently true". 

Exactly. Stargazer's scene is the ending to Mass Effect. )))) Everything before that - is fair game. And he did promise us one more story about Shepard. )))

[Eryri]

demersel wrote...

Exactly. Stargazer's scene is the ending to Mass Effect. )))) Everything before that - is fair game. And he did promise us one more story about Shepard. )))

And "some of the details have been lost with time." Lots of wiggle room for revision there.

[demersel]

It's everywhere. Even in the refuse ending. ))

[Eryri]

starlitegirlx wrote...

demersel wrote...

Eryri wrote...

My own, slightly forlorn, hope is that the Star Gazer scene, set umpteen thousand years in the future, is what they actually mean by "the ending". Anything before that would then be fair game for revision. Then the "no new endings" comment wouldn't be a lie so much as something "differently true". 

Exactly. Stargazer's scene is the ending to Mass Effect. )))) Everything before that - is fair game. And he did promise us one more story about Shepard. )))

It's THE ENDING for destroy, but not for any of the other endings, right? I don't think it's there for control or synthesis, is it?

I think destroy, control and synthesis all have the same scene with Buzz Aldrin. Only refuse has a different scene with the female voice actor and slightly different dialogue.

Edit: Perhaps that would imply that there's a way for even Control and Synthesis Shepards to redeem themselves and get a similar outcome to destroyers, but refusers really do drop the ball?

Modifié par Eryri, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:56 .

[demersel]

Yes, but she also promises one more story. Except she doesn't say it is about shepard.

[Arashi08]

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

Modifié par Arashi08, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:54 .

[estebanus]

Arashi08 wrote...

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

Yeas, and it's called Mass Effect 4.

[paxxton]

Arashi08 wrote...

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

“We don’t want to make ‘Shepard 2′, or Mass Effect 4 with like, ‘oh there’s no more Shepard but you’re a soldier in the universe’."
That proves Shepard is alive. Beyond any reasonable doubt.

Modifié par paxxton, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:06 .

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

“We don’t want to make ‘Shepard 2′, or Mass Effect 4 with like, ‘oh there’s no more Shepard but you’re a soldier in the universe’."
That proves Shepard is alive. Beyond any reasonable doubt.

... What?

[Arashi08]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

“We don’t want to make ‘Shepard 2′, or Mass Effect 4 with like, ‘oh there’s no more Shepard but you’re a soldier in the universe’."
That proves Shepard is alive. Beyond any reasonable doubt.

... What?

Seconded

...What?

[MaximizedAction]

demersel wrote...

"An end for once and for all" track, that plays in control and synthesys ending is out of key.

If you mean consonance wise, i.e. in chord, or in that case, out of chord, in the scene where the Normandy is escaping the beam, then it's only out of key in a low EMS scenario, otherwise it plays the EC version of "An End..." which is in-key.

That is, if I got you correctly and remember correctly.

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

demersel wrote...

At this point - we don't know anything about next ME game. It may not be even called Mass Effect, let alone Mass Effect 4.

They often compared the war with the reapers with WWII. And you you know what? whe deffininly didn't get to fight much of the of the actual WAR. what we got is more like the initial blitzkrieg.

Apparently IGN knows something about it.

“We don’t want to make ‘Shepard 2′, or Mass Effect 4 with like, ‘oh there’s no more Shepard but you’re a soldier in the universe’."
That proves Shepard is alive. Beyond any reasonable doubt.

... What?

They don't want to make ME4 without Shepard. They don't want for people to go "oh, no more Shepard :("

Modifié par paxxton, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:11 .