80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

SwobyJ wrote...
TIM: "You're in my chair."

Shepard: "This chair's about the only damn thing you have left. Cerberus is finished."

TIM: "On the contrary. We have achieved everything I ever imagined."
"Almost everything."

Shepard: "Yeah, we all saw what you accomplished on Sancturary."
"But it's not the same as controlling a Reaper."

TIM: "A significant hurdle."
"But thanks to the Prothian VI, I have what I need to make it a reality."

Shepard: "The Catalyst."

TIM: "Yes."

Shepard: "What is the Catalyst, and how exactly will it help you control the Reapers."

TIM: "You'll have to ask the VI yourself. I'm done helping you."

Shepard: "When did you start?"

TIM: "You think that since I'm willing to use the enemy's tactics, they're no longer my enemy?" (Sun Tsu? "In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them; conceal your dispositions, and you will be safe from the prying of the
subtlest spies, from the machinations of the wisest brains. How victory may be produced for them out of the enemy's own tactics—that is what the multitude cannot comprehend.")

"Everything, Shepard - everything I've done has uplifted humanity. Not only above other species in our galaxy, but over the Reapers!"

Shepard: "If you're willing to do everything it takes, then hand over the Catalyst. With the Crucible, we can end this."

TIM: "It's not that simple..."

Shepard: "It is. It is that simple! We're fighting each other while the Reapers occupy Earth. It's time to stop!"

Cool. I like the Sun Tsu reference because I have The Art of War, the Tao Tae Ching, and the Book of Five Rings. I dig Eastern philosophy. But anyway, clearly Tim has something up his sleeve in omega, probably the actual catalyst, which might change the ending to make Shepard call Starbinger on his bullsh*t.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[BatmanTurian]

SwobyJ wrote...

IF the Prothian VI was hacked, its possible TIM was leading Shepard into a trap, so he wouldn't interfere with his real plan.

Agreed.

[BleedingUranium]

SwobyJ wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

*snip*

Cool. I like the Sun Tsu reference because I have The Art of War, the Tao Tae Ching, and the Book of Five Rings. I dig Eastern philosophy. But anyway, clearly Tim has something up his sleeve in omega, probably the actual catalyst, which might change the ending to make Shepard call Starbinger on his bullsh*t.

IF the Prothian VI was hacked, its possible TIM was leading Shepard into a trap, so he wouldn't interfere with his real plan.

Honestly, Vendetta might just be a complete fabrication by Cerberus. By the time you get to the temple, Kai Leng had been there a while ago, plenty of time to plant the VI. Besides, you find a beacon and then a VI comes out of it? What? That makes about as much sense as Starbinger. We've known since ME1 that beacons and VIs are very, very different things. What's even more interesting is that because of Vendetta, we never actually used the beacon!

[BatmanTurian]

BleedingUranium wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

*snip*

Cool. I like the Sun Tsu reference because I have The Art of War, the Tao Tae Ching, and the Book of Five Rings. I dig Eastern philosophy. But anyway, clearly Tim has something up his sleeve in omega, probably the actual catalyst, which might change the ending to make Shepard call Starbinger on his bullsh*t.

IF the Prothian VI was hacked, its possible TIM was leading Shepard into a trap, so he wouldn't interfere with his real plan.

Honestly, Vendetta might just be a complete fabrication by Cerberus. By the time you get to the temple, Kai Leng had been there a while ago, plenty of time to plant the VI. Besides, you find a beacon and then a VI comes out of it? What? That makes about as much sense as Starbinger. We've known since ME1 that beacons and VIs are very, very different things. What's even more interesting is that because of Vendetta, we never actually used the beacon!

huh.... very astute. I had not realized that. This is why I think ME4 will continue the Reaper War. Too many wrong turns caused by deception on the enemy's part.

[Restrider]

TSA_383 wrote...

Restrider wrote...

I think this may have triggered that rumours.
As well as the theory that Tevos and Aria are bond-mates.

I think we all know who the boss is in that relationship...

It would be clearly Tevos...
For real!
At least when they are doing it... you know? Persons with power tend to like to be dominated when getting intimate. Just to mix it up a bit.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

So the bad guys' ship in orbit has a beam to the ground that can jam targetting and coms, and our best idea is to run into it? Ask Olsen how well that went 

yeah, the whole thing doesn't make sense. Why run to the beam? why not just fly up to the citadel. Why are the Reapers leaving the back door open?

Well, I'm glad you asked that, BatmanTurian, because clearly the beam is like a rabbit trap. A carrot under a box tied to a stick holding the box up. We're the rabbit, the beam is the carrot, Harbinger is the stick and box.

We cant fly to the Citadel as it is sealed shut, leaving no way in and our most powerful weaponry would require days of bombardment to even scratch the hull.

This however raises a very important question. How did the Reapers take the Citadel so fast?

Without any control over the Citadel systems nothing would have prevented the Citadel Defense Force from closing the Citadel when the Reaper arrived, shutting them out.

There has to have been someone sabotaging it from the inside, kinda like Saren did (but one would think that after that insident that the protection of the Controls allowing them to close the arms would be increased). Best guess is that TIM and what is left of Cerberus is who sabotaged it or some other Indoctrinated agents.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:28 .

[jojon2se]

SwobyJ wrote...
"The Citadel is in position."

For what???

 --- snip ---

As a huge hollow "drydock" for reaper construction, complete with a materials conveyor to the ground? Too simple?

[BleedingUranium]

jojon2se wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...
"The Citadel is in position."

For what???

 --- snip ---

As a huge hollow "drydock" for reaper construction, complete with a materials conveyor to the ground? Too simple?

Given that the very next line is "The Reapers are ready to complete their harvest", that seems likely.

[jojon2se]

BatmanTurian wrote...
...
You do realize that a piece of literature can infer something and not come out and say it.
...

Go back a page or two, and you'll find yourself rather aggressively lambasting people, for not corroborating their ideas with solid empirical evidence. You are not really contradicting yourself, but one could be forgiven for detecting a slight self-bias and lack of empathy.

Point out to people when their argument falter, by all means, but try to do it by reasoning with them -- a confrontative tone will inevitably trigger an instinctive, defensive response and then you'll never get through - more likely you'll risk finding yourself vitrifying and becoming just as unreasonable and close minded as you see them (EDIT: ...and coming to see them that way and becoming annoyed, would be a symptom of that - raise warning flags  ).
That's an important part of what I, for my part, take away from the NYTimes article you posted.

As you can see; I'm lousy at this myself.

Modifié par jojon2se, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Wait a minute...

We are guessing that TIM is on the Citadel doing...something in IT and something just struck me.

In ME1 Vigil speaks of how the Protheans altered the signal controlling the Keepers on the citadel and on Sanctuary Cerberus is constructing a control signal as well as experimenting with implants for controlling his forces through that signal.

Depsite Cerberus beeing heavily indoctrinated going by all indications the Reapers still assault Sanctuary. Best idea is that Cerberus has lived out their usefulness, but it also coincided with what seemed to be the final work on the basic Control signal.

Could the Reapers have been using Cerberus to construct a new control signal for the Keepers. By allowing them some measure of success in the control signal could the Reapers have been pulling Cerberus on something the Reapers simply take now? Could it be how they regained control of the Citadel?

We know the Reapers will no doubt fix the control signal before the next cycle, but using Cerberus ressources they had it made with no waste of time?

Purely an idea, but would explain how the Citadel fell so fast and explain why TIM still might be o the Citadel. Also would help explain why the Reapers allowed Cerberus such advances in the signal on Sanctuary and would of the foreshadowing gained through the scanning of the Keepers in ME1 and the mail in ME2 mentioning that the Keepers are ticking timebombs (if I recall that correctly).

But again just an idea, nothing but speculation to back it up

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Humakt83]

I think Omega could be a previous attempt of the Crucible by unknown previous cycle. Maybe it was the attempt made by Protheans?

[BleedingUranium]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Wait a minute...

We are guessing that TIM is on the Citadel doing...something in IT and something just struck me.

In ME1 Vigil speaks of how the Protheans altered the signal controlling the Keepers on the citadel and on Sanctuary Cerberus is constructing a control signal as well as experimenting with implants for controlling his forces through that signal.

Depsite Cerberus beeing heavily indoctrinated going by all indications the Reapers still assault Sanctuary. Best idea is that Cerberus has lived out their usefulness, but it also coincided with what seemed to be the final work on the basic Control signal.

Could the Reapers have been using Cerberus to construct a new control signal for the Keepers. By allowing them some measure of success in the control signal could the Reapers have been pulling Cerberus on something the Reapers simply take now? Could it be how they regained control of the Citadel?

We know the Reapers will no doubt fix the control signal before the next cycle, but using Cerberus ressources they had it made with no waste of time?

Purely an idea, but would explain how the Citadel fell so fast and explain why TIM still might be o the Citadel. Also would help explain why the Reapers allowed Cerberus such advances in the signal on Sanctuary and would of the foreshadowing gained through the scanning of the Keepers in ME1 and the mail in ME2 mentioning that the Keepers are ticking timebombs (if I recall that correctly).

But again just an idea, nothing but speculation to back it up

It's a cool idea  I really hope the rumors about the Citadel DLC turn out to be true, and it's about the Keepers.

[CoolioThane]

Hey. Have I missed anything in the 7 weeks since I've properly been on here?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Humakt83 wrote...

I think Omega could be a previous attempt of the Crucible by unknown previous cycle. Maybe it was the attempt made by Protheans?

No chance, Omega is a whopping 44.7 km in length, as long as the Citadel itself.

Beyond that one of the comics I believe it was heavily implies that Omega is a Reaper construction. Which makes sense as the Reapers are pretty thourough exterminating the signs of the each cycle and I cant see them having missed a 44 km long Space Station near the Omega-4 Relay.

[Humakt83]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

I think Omega could be a previous attempt of the Crucible by unknown previous cycle. Maybe it was the attempt made by Protheans?

No chance, Omega is a whopping 44.7 km in length, as long as the Citadel itself.

Beyond that one of the comics I believe it was heavily implies that Omega is a Reaper construction. Which makes sense as the Reapers are pretty thourough exterminating the signs of the each cycle and I cant see them having missed a 44 km long Space Station near the Omega-4 Relay.

Retribution (novel) implied that Omega was familiar for the Reapers. Though that could be because Collectors visited it.

Modifié par Humakt83, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Humakt83 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

I think Omega could be a previous attempt of the Crucible by unknown previous cycle. Maybe it was the attempt made by Protheans?

No chance, Omega is a whopping 44.7 km in length, as long as the Citadel itself.

Beyond that one of the comics I believe it was heavily implies that Omega is a Reaper construction. Which makes sense as the Reapers are pretty thourough exterminating the signs of the each cycle and I cant see them having missed a 44 km long Space Station near the Omega-4 Relay.

Retribution (novel) implied that Omega was familiar for the Reapers. Though that could be because Collectors visited it.

That would still mean the Reapers specifically left a 44 km long Space Station around after finishing destroying just about everything else left behind by the cycle. We know enough about the Reapers to know they dont leave technology behind for no reason so they must have a reason for leaving it there...implications, unpleasant...

Also considering its position there is no chance they simply missed it.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:05 .

[Rankincountry]

TSA_383 wrote...

I had a post on the clevernoob forums that I thought would be relevant here:

So, a lot of discussion on the boards concerns ways that the reapers could be defeated with or without the crucible. It doesn't take much common sense to realise that in a battle against every reaper, the combined forces of shepard's little intergalactic fleet would be wiped out.

But what if you didn't have to fight every reaper?

My theory is this:

1-The "catalyst" AI was created by the Leviathans, at which point it created Harbinger and installed itself onto that platform.
2-It uses the Harbinger platform, with its control abilities inherited from the Leviathans used to produce it, to control the other reapers as well as to indoctrinate other life forms. There was some cut dialog from the derelict reaper in ME2 which suggests that reapers are essentially incapable of independent thought whilst in contact with the rest of their force.
3-Therefore, it would seem to be entirely plausible that destroying Harbinger would be all that was required to stop them. The fleet can't take down every reaper, but could they take down Harbinger? Perhaps.

In the post EC & Leviathan endings, it seems fairly obvious that the AI is controlling (and therefore effectively "is" for the purposes of argument) Harbinger, attempting to take control of Shepard.
My theory is that Shepard's resistance will somehow weaken Harbinger, allowing the fleets to attack and destroy it, thereby eliminating the AI's control of the other Reaper platforms and effectively stopping the harvest.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory - and following the logic of it, the Reapers are analagous to the Geth in some ways. Geth platforms host multiple programs and when close to each other, form a network - a gestalt with capabilities beyond the sum of its individual parts. Scale this up, and substitute harvested minds for programs and we have the Reapers.

This creates a possible explanation for some of Sovereign's unusual traits relative to other reapers ("each a nation"). It follows that the caretaker reaper left behind at the end of the cycle would operate along the lines of Legion - a platform that can operate effectively cut off from the Geth network in enemy territory. If I remember correctly, Legion's description of the mind of a reaper is similar to the Geth collective but on an incomprehensible scale.

This offers some intriguing possibilities for defeating the reapers. For example, the crucible is designed to hack the mass relay network via the citadel - a back door into the collective brain of the reapers?

[BleedingUranium]

Rankincountry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I had a post on the clevernoob forums that I thought would be relevant here:

So, a lot of discussion on the boards concerns ways that the reapers could be defeated with or without the crucible. It doesn't take much common sense to realise that in a battle against every reaper, the combined forces of shepard's little intergalactic fleet would be wiped out.

But what if you didn't have to fight every reaper?

My theory is this:

1-The "catalyst" AI was created by the Leviathans, at which point it created Harbinger and installed itself onto that platform.
2-It uses the Harbinger platform, with its control abilities inherited from the Leviathans used to produce it, to control the other reapers as well as to indoctrinate other life forms. There was some cut dialog from the derelict reaper in ME2 which suggests that reapers are essentially incapable of independent thought whilst in contact with the rest of their force.
3-Therefore, it would seem to be entirely plausible that destroying Harbinger would be all that was required to stop them. The fleet can't take down every reaper, but could they take down Harbinger? Perhaps.

In the post EC & Leviathan endings, it seems fairly obvious that the AI is controlling (and therefore effectively "is" for the purposes of argument) Harbinger, attempting to take control of Shepard.
My theory is that Shepard's resistance will somehow weaken Harbinger, allowing the fleets to attack and destroy it, thereby eliminating the AI's control of the other Reaper platforms and effectively stopping the harvest.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory - and following the logic of it, the Reapers are analagous to the Geth in some ways. Geth platforms host multiple programs and when close to each other, form a network - a gestalt with capabilities beyond the sum of its individual parts. Scale this up, and substitute harvested minds for programs and we have the Reapers.

This creates a possible explanation for some of Sovereign's unusual traits relative to other reapers ("each a nation"). It follows that the caretaker reaper left behind at the end of the cycle would operate along the lines of Legion - a platform that can operate effectively cut off from the Geth network in enemy territory. If I remember correctly, Legion's description of the mind of a reaper is similar to the Geth collective but on an incomprehensible scale.

This offers some intriguing possibilities for defeating the reapers. For example, the crucible is designed to hack the mass relay network via the citadel - a back door into the collective brain of the reapers?

And then maybe a scaled up version of the Geth Consensus mission?

[Rankincountry]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

I think Omega could be a previous attempt of the Crucible by unknown previous cycle. Maybe it was the attempt made by Protheans?

No chance, Omega is a whopping 44.7 km in length, as long as the Citadel itself.

Beyond that one of the comics I believe it was heavily implies that Omega is a Reaper construction. Which makes sense as the Reapers are pretty thourough exterminating the signs of the each cycle and I cant see them having missed a 44 km long Space Station near the Omega-4 Relay.

This also makes me suspicious of the derelict reaper - it wasn't difficult for Cerberus to find and it seems inconceivable that the reapers would leave it behind for numerous cycles where there is a reasonable chance that someone would figure out what the Klendagon rift was. This is probably part of the reapers' long term manipulation of TIM and Cerberus - letting Shepard find the IFF, may have been a slip-up and not part of the plan though.

Retribution (novel) implied that Omega was familiar for the Reapers. Though that could be because Collectors visited it.

That would still mean the Reapers specifically left a 44 km long Space Station around after finishing destroying just about everything else left behind by the cycle. We know enough about the Reapers to know they dont leave technology behind for no reason so they must have a reason for leaving it there...implications, unpleasant...

Also considering its position there is no chance they simply missed it.

Oops my post got eaten - this makes me suspicious of the derelict reaper. Cerberus had little difficulty finding it simply by figuring out the Klendagon Rift and it had clearly been there for more than one cycle so could have been discovered by anyone. It seems inconceivable that the Reapers would leave it there unless it was part of a larger plan - probably part of the manipulation of Cerberus (and maybe its equivalents in prior cycles). I wonder if Shepard getting away with the IFF was a slip-up or part of this scheme?

Modifié par Rankincountry, 24 octobre 2012 - 11:49 .

[Rankincountry]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I had a post on the clevernoob forums that I thought would be relevant here:

So, a lot of discussion on the boards concerns ways that the reapers could be defeated with or without the crucible. It doesn't take much common sense to realise that in a battle against every reaper, the combined forces of shepard's little intergalactic fleet would be wiped out.

But what if you didn't have to fight every reaper?

My theory is this:

1-The "catalyst" AI was created by the Leviathans, at which point it created Harbinger and installed itself onto that platform.
2-It uses the Harbinger platform, with its control abilities inherited from the Leviathans used to produce it, to control the other reapers as well as to indoctrinate other life forms. There was some cut dialog from the derelict reaper in ME2 which suggests that reapers are essentially incapable of independent thought whilst in contact with the rest of their force.
3-Therefore, it would seem to be entirely plausible that destroying Harbinger would be all that was required to stop them. The fleet can't take down every reaper, but could they take down Harbinger? Perhaps.

In the post EC & Leviathan endings, it seems fairly obvious that the AI is controlling (and therefore effectively "is" for the purposes of argument) Harbinger, attempting to take control of Shepard.
My theory is that Shepard's resistance will somehow weaken Harbinger, allowing the fleets to attack and destroy it, thereby eliminating the AI's control of the other Reaper platforms and effectively stopping the harvest.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory - and following the logic of it, the Reapers are analagous to the Geth in some ways. Geth platforms host multiple programs and when close to each other, form a network - a gestalt with capabilities beyond the sum of its individual parts. Scale this up, and substitute harvested minds for programs and we have the Reapers.

This creates a possible explanation for some of Sovereign's unusual traits relative to other reapers ("each a nation"). It follows that the caretaker reaper left behind at the end of the cycle would operate along the lines of Legion - a platform that can operate effectively cut off from the Geth network in enemy territory. If I remember correctly, Legion's description of the mind of a reaper is similar to the Geth collective but on an incomprehensible scale.

This offers some intriguing possibilities for defeating the reapers. For example, the crucible is designed to hack the mass relay network via the citadel - a back door into the collective brain of the reapers?

And then maybe a scaled up version of the Geth Consensus mission?

Just what I was thinking . Maybe along the way, Shepard would stumble across Reaper memories in the same way that he glimpsed the Geth's past - could be some real nightmare fuel .

[demersel]

SwobyJ wrote...

demersel wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

But now I think (when it comes to similar goals, etc):

Reapers --> Saren, Kenson
Leviathan --> TIM (we'll see... hopefully with Omega)

Why do you think Leviathan --> TIM?


And the last words of Harbinger in ME2 really suggest that there are other forces at work besides the reapers (and not just one force but several)

I don't think he works for them.

I think he wants to be them.

NOT a REAPER.

He wants to be the apex species, literally, not some caretakers of a robotic Cycle.

He doesn't want to Harvest, he wants to Dominate.

Which is why I see Synthesis as Abomination, but Control as Villany.

IMO Cerberus content is coming after Leviathan because the tie in will be that TIM had found out about how certain organics once controlled everything in the galaxy, more or less. It doesn't need to be overt info, even.

It fits into my 'humanity is next evolution of organic supremacy' idea.

When it comes to telepathic influence over others:

Leviathans --> Thorian --> Prothians/Rachni --> Asari/Human

Humanity itself being an anomaly.

I think we're up for a DLC reveal about Shepard himself.

Makes sense. I actually think along of the same lines. 

[TSA_383]

Rankincountry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I had a post on the clevernoob forums that I thought would be relevant here:

So, a lot of discussion on the boards concerns ways that the reapers could be defeated with or without the crucible. It doesn't take much common sense to realise that in a battle against every reaper, the combined forces of shepard's little intergalactic fleet would be wiped out.

But what if you didn't have to fight every reaper?

My theory is this:

1-The "catalyst" AI was created by the Leviathans, at which point it created Harbinger and installed itself onto that platform.
2-It uses the Harbinger platform, with its control abilities inherited from the Leviathans used to produce it, to control the other reapers as well as to indoctrinate other life forms. There was some cut dialog from the derelict reaper in ME2 which suggests that reapers are essentially incapable of independent thought whilst in contact with the rest of their force.
3-Therefore, it would seem to be entirely plausible that destroying Harbinger would be all that was required to stop them. The fleet can't take down every reaper, but could they take down Harbinger? Perhaps.

In the post EC & Leviathan endings, it seems fairly obvious that the AI is controlling (and therefore effectively "is" for the purposes of argument) Harbinger, attempting to take control of Shepard.
My theory is that Shepard's resistance will somehow weaken Harbinger, allowing the fleets to attack and destroy it, thereby eliminating the AI's control of the other Reaper platforms and effectively stopping the harvest.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory - and following the logic of it, the Reapers are analagous to the Geth in some ways. Geth platforms host multiple programs and when close to each other, form a network - a gestalt with capabilities beyond the sum of its individual parts. Scale this up, and substitute harvested minds for programs and we have the Reapers.

This creates a possible explanation for some of Sovereign's unusual traits relative to other reapers ("each a nation"). It follows that the caretaker reaper left behind at the end of the cycle would operate along the lines of Legion - a platform that can operate effectively cut off from the Geth network in enemy territory. If I remember correctly, Legion's description of the mind of a reaper is similar to the Geth collective but on an incomprehensible scale.

This offers some intriguing possibilities for defeating the reapers. For example, the crucible is designed to hack the mass relay network via the citadel - a back door into the collective brain of the reapers?

And then maybe a scaled up version of the Geth Consensus mission?

Just what I was thinking . Maybe along the way, Shepard would stumble across Reaper memories in the same way that he glimpsed the Geth's past - could be some real nightmare fuel .

I think we're thinking about it in a different way...
The geth have no centralised point of failure, but if the reapers are being controlled entirely by the AI through Harbinger, then perhaps destroying that one reaper construct would be enough to defeat them.

[Rankincountry]

demersel wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

demersel wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

But now I think (when it comes to similar goals, etc):

Reapers --> Saren, Kenson
Leviathan --> TIM (we'll see... hopefully with Omega)

Why do you think Leviathan --> TIM?


And the last words of Harbinger in ME2 really suggest that there are other forces at work besides the reapers (and not just one force but several)

I don't think he works for them.

I think he wants to be them.

NOT a REAPER.

He wants to be the apex species, literally, not some caretakers of a robotic Cycle.

He doesn't want to Harvest, he wants to Dominate.

Which is why I see Synthesis as Abomination, but Control as Villany.

IMO Cerberus content is coming after Leviathan because the tie in will be that TIM had found out about how certain organics once controlled everything in the galaxy, more or less. It doesn't need to be overt info, even.

It fits into my 'humanity is next evolution of organic supremacy' idea.

When it comes to telepathic influence over others:

Leviathans --> Thorian --> Prothians/Rachni --> Asari/Human

Humanity itself being an anomaly.

I think we're up for a DLC reveal about Shepard himself.

Makes sense. I actually think along of the same lines. 

A significant theme in ME1 is the disruption caused to the galactic status quo by humanity - in the space of a single generation from the first contact war (barely a blink to an Asari, shocking even to the quick thinking and fast living Salarians) humans have gone from tentative steps to colonising from their dilapidated homeworld (the codex description of Earth is clear that the gap between rich and poor remains gigantic and that pollution is severe) to a seat on the council. This would be unthinkable for any other species.

Even in the  first contact war, human ships were less numerous than the turians but our fleets and soldiers were a qualitative match for the council's mightiest military force. We're like the ultimate gatecrashers - bursting right through the front door, taking over the stereo and changing the whole feel of the party.

Shepard is the avatar of this disruptive, unpredictable species - I think you're on to something here.

[Rankincountry]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I had a post on the clevernoob forums that I thought would be relevant here:

So, a lot of discussion on the boards concerns ways that the reapers could be defeated with or without the crucible. It doesn't take much common sense to realise that in a battle against every reaper, the combined forces of shepard's little intergalactic fleet would be wiped out.

But what if you didn't have to fight every reaper?

My theory is this:

1-The "catalyst" AI was created by the Leviathans, at which point it created Harbinger and installed itself onto that platform.
2-It uses the Harbinger platform, with its control abilities inherited from the Leviathans used to produce it, to control the other reapers as well as to indoctrinate other life forms. There was some cut dialog from the derelict reaper in ME2 which suggests that reapers are essentially incapable of independent thought whilst in contact with the rest of their force.
3-Therefore, it would seem to be entirely plausible that destroying Harbinger would be all that was required to stop them. The fleet can't take down every reaper, but could they take down Harbinger? Perhaps.

In the post EC & Leviathan endings, it seems fairly obvious that the AI is controlling (and therefore effectively "is" for the purposes of argument) Harbinger, attempting to take control of Shepard.
My theory is that Shepard's resistance will somehow weaken Harbinger, allowing the fleets to attack and destroy it, thereby eliminating the AI's control of the other Reaper platforms and effectively stopping the harvest.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory - and following the logic of it, the Reapers are analagous to the Geth in some ways. Geth platforms host multiple programs and when close to each other, form a network - a gestalt with capabilities beyond the sum of its individual parts. Scale this up, and substitute harvested minds for programs and we have the Reapers.

This creates a possible explanation for some of Sovereign's unusual traits relative to other reapers ("each a nation"). It follows that the caretaker reaper left behind at the end of the cycle would operate along the lines of Legion - a platform that can operate effectively cut off from the Geth network in enemy territory. If I remember correctly, Legion's description of the mind of a reaper is similar to the Geth collective but on an incomprehensible scale.

This offers some intriguing possibilities for defeating the reapers. For example, the crucible is designed to hack the mass relay network via the citadel - a back door into the collective brain of the reapers?

And then maybe a scaled up version of the Geth Consensus mission?

Just what I was thinking . Maybe along the way, Shepard would stumble across Reaper memories in the same way that he glimpsed the Geth's past - could be some real nightmare fuel .

I think we're thinking about it in a different way...
The geth have no centralised point of failure, but if the reapers are being controlled entirely by the AI through Harbinger, then perhaps destroying that one reaper construct would be enough to defeat them.

The difference being that the Geth make decisions collectively through consensus, whereas the reapers are dominated by a single intelligence. And if the rest of the reapers are suddenly cut off...

This wouldn't preclude a mission taking place inside the mind of one or more reapers - or the post-breath scene could be a last-ditch attack on Harbinger by the fleets. And if Shepard resisted indoctrination for long enough, distracting Harby, then a Turian-style manoeuvre by Dreadnoughts against Harby might just work, with the final scenes depending on a combination of EMS and choice of Control, Synthesis, Destroy or Refuse.

Refuse would presumably be a fail state in all cases, Synthesis and Control would allow a chance of success if EMS high enough, but maybe with Shepard dead at the end, and Destroy would have the best chance of success, with a chance for Shepard to live.

Ooh top. I feel sorry for anyone stuck under this quote pyramid...

Modifié par Rankincountry, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .