Ce sujet est ferméMegumiAzusa wrote...
No.[/Sten]AresKeith wrote...
Bioware may not have planned ahead since ME1, but everything that foreshadower Synthesis pointed at it being a bad thing
lol
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
#39501
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:22
AresKeith
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lol
Retour en haut
#39502
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:32
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Guest_magnetite_*
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AresKeith wrote...
Bioware may not have planned ahead since ME1, but everything that foreshadower Synthesis pointed at it being a bad thing
Yep, I'd agree with that
Modifié par magnetite, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:33 .
#39503
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:34
DoomsdayDevice
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Guys, take a look at the huge collection of IT-supporting quotes we've gathered.
I'm still missing a lot of stuff.
Most noteably the things Hackett says about destroying the Reapers. If anyone could help me out with finding some exact literal quotes for Hackett, I'd appreciate it.
Anything else that supports IT (in terms of in-game dialogue), please submit here.
Thanks in advance. =)
I'm still missing a lot of stuff.
Most noteably the things Hackett says about destroying the Reapers. If anyone could help me out with finding some exact literal quotes for Hackett, I'd appreciate it.
Anything else that supports IT (in terms of in-game dialogue), please submit here.
Thanks in advance. =)
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 octobre 2012 - 04:34 .
#39504
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:43
TSA_383
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Hell, I'd go if I could afford it right now - if only for an ITers meetup of some kind.Davik Kang wrote...
Interesting, maybe I will go.FFZero wrote...
As for the MCMExpo, Evil Chris and Jessica are going to be there for the entire thing and are doing a panel on Saturday. What it's about they haven’t said yet but probably DA3, Omega DLC and fan Q&A. Also Jack and Liara’s VA’s are going to be there.
#39505
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:44
TSA_383
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
More synthesis foreshadowing:
Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.
We need to make a video compilation of all these at some point
#39506
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:49
Rifneno
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TIM was indoctrinated in the First Contact War.
#39507
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:52
spotlessvoid
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I feel compelled to point out the difference between IT evidence and foreshadowing against control/synthesis. There are other theories that concur those are traps, but disagree on if and when the hallucination occurs.
#39508
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:56
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Guys, take a look at the huge collection of IT-supporting quotes we've gathered.
I'm still missing a lot of stuff.
Most noteably the things Hackett says about destroying the Reapers. If anyone could help me out with finding some exact literal quotes for Hackett, I'd appreciate it.
Anything else that supports IT (in terms of in-game dialogue), please submit here.
Thanks in advance. =)
EDI has some great quotes, one about destroying the reapers because they are repulsive.
I am amazed at the constant references to nightmares. If that doesn't smack you in the head, I don't know what will.
#39509
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:58
DoomsdayDevice
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TSA_383 wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
More synthesis foreshadowing:
Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.
We need to make a video compilation of all these at some point
Yeah. For now, we're collecting them here.
I am still looking for those Hacket quotes on destroying the Reapers. Please help!
Also, this comes pretty close to what you're suggesting. =)
#39510
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 04:59
DoomsdayDevice
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spotlessvoid wrote...
I feel compelled to point out the difference between IT evidence and foreshadowing against control/synthesis. There are other theories that concur those are traps, but disagree on if and when the hallucination occurs.
I agree, and eventually the list will be catagorized into destroy-supporting, ending-foreshadowing, synthesis-foreshadowing, etc.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 25 octobre 2012 - 05:00 .
#39511
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 05:07
BatmanTurian
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shadoww6021 wrote...
guys, if you haven't seen this you probably should. it could open up a new reasons to some of the events pre-beam shot.
holy sh*t
#39512
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 05:10
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
TSA_383 wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
More synthesis foreshadowing:
Shepard: You mentioned before your people had problems with AI.
Javik: The Zha'til. They were as the Geth to this cycle.
Shepard: What happened?
Javik: Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence.
Shepard: I think I know where this is going.
Javik: The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time, the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters.
We need to make a video compilation of all these at some point
Yeah. For now, we're collecting them here.
I am still looking for those Hacket quotes on destroying the Reapers. Please help!
Also, this comes pretty close to what you're suggesting. =)
Do you mean 'he's wrong. Dead reapers is how we win this!"
That quote is after a conversation you have with Illusive man and it's not far into the game. Might be right after mars or if you choose to have a conference with Hackett at a point after that and choose cerberus as the topic and then at some point the option about controlling the reapers comes up. It's a top left option during the conversation regarding cerberus. So I think it might be a conference you choose to have with hackett when traynor says hackett is available. It's definitely triggered after a Tim discussion. It might be as early as mars but I don't remember if it was that soon.
There is also the speech he gives when he boards the ship which is pretty straight forward and he uses 'no quarter'.
#39513
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 05:14
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
I feel compelled to point out the difference between IT evidence and foreshadowing against control/synthesis. There are other theories that concur those are traps, but disagree on if and when the hallucination occurs.
I agree, and eventually the list will be catagorized into destroy-supporting, ending-foreshadowing, synthesis-foreshadowing, etc.
All the nightmare comments should be IT/dream/hallucination related and compiled since there are at least a dozen of them. With that many, it's hard to deny that it's at least forshadowing that Shepard will be in some kind of altered state of consciousness at some point in the game which we see as the end at the time of the choices.
#39514
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 05:33
401 Kill
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What about Hacket telling Shrpard that he makes people believe? Would that have any relevance?
#39515
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 05:44
BleedingUranium
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401 Kill wrote...
What about Hacket telling Shrpard that he makes people believe? Would that have any relevance?
I think so. All the stuff about Shepard being a normal person, but one that everyone sees as a hero and leader is important.
#39516
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:12
Andromidius
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spotlessvoid wrote...
I feel compelled to point out the difference between IT evidence and foreshadowing against control/synthesis. There are other theories that concur those are traps, but disagree on if and when the hallucination occurs.
True dat. IT mostly focuses on explaining how certain things are hallucinations laiden with symbolism.
#39517
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:15
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401 Kill wrote...
What about Hacket telling Shrpard that he makes people believe? Would that have any relevance?
Does that actually support IT though? It supports shepard as a tool for the reapers leading them to the slaughter but I guess that depeneds on how you define IT. I think of it as pretty straightforward that what you see happening after the beam hits shepard or perhaps once shepard is in the citadel chamber with Anderson is all an illusion and indoctrinaion attempt. So in that case, there's a lot of stuff that keeps coming up that isn't relevant at all and can very easily be just part of the gameplay.
The nightmare comments though are so prevalent and a clear parallel to altered state of consciousness which IT essentially is - hallucination/waking dream/ waking nightmare/ illusion - that those should be put in and the more of them, the better because to deliberate use the same word over and over again is hard to dismiss.
Also, whatever references in those conversations where people say 'wake up' should also be acknowledged .... like when a character say "then we can all wake up" or something like that because that is also a direct reference to altered state of consciousness as in coming out of a delusion or illusion is waking up to reality.
#39518
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:20
Big_Boss9
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+1spotlessvoid wrote...
I feel compelled to point out the difference between IT evidence and foreshadowing against control/synthesis. There are other theories that concur those are traps, but disagree on if and when the hallucination occurs.
OT: I'm thrilled that they're finally adding the Valkyrie rifle to MP, but not so thrilled that it'll be as a promotional weapon. Weekend challenge looks easy.
Modifié par Big_Boss9, 25 octobre 2012 - 06:22 .
#39519
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:42
spotlessvoid
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As Davik has repeatedly pointed out, the breath scene armor seems to match the hallucination armor.
Now this could mean several things...
Shepard had the armor damaged by Harbingers blast. It's logical the armor would match somewhat (we don't see arms and head) and that the blast would damage his armor. Still, this takes away from impact the armor switch after waking up from the blast.
The hallucination starts earlier and Shepard's armor is damaged another way, such as the shuttle crash. It still doesn't explain the armor switch.
The hallucination starts sometime after Shepard gets up from the blast. Like when he enters the beam or ascends to the decision chamber.
It's an easter egg, pre-rendered and it really would require significant work to make one for all combinations. They felt it was post credits and felt it acceptable to not make it consistent to what armor your Shepard is wearing.
Shepard still hasn't woken up.
Shepard really was on the citadel and took a swig from a bottle of invincibility potion to survive the blast that reduced everything to smoldering rubble around him, with broken armor and no shields.
Now this could mean several things...
Shepard had the armor damaged by Harbingers blast. It's logical the armor would match somewhat (we don't see arms and head) and that the blast would damage his armor. Still, this takes away from impact the armor switch after waking up from the blast.
The hallucination starts earlier and Shepard's armor is damaged another way, such as the shuttle crash. It still doesn't explain the armor switch.
The hallucination starts sometime after Shepard gets up from the blast. Like when he enters the beam or ascends to the decision chamber.
It's an easter egg, pre-rendered and it really would require significant work to make one for all combinations. They felt it was post credits and felt it acceptable to not make it consistent to what armor your Shepard is wearing.
Shepard still hasn't woken up.
Shepard really was on the citadel and took a swig from a bottle of invincibility potion to survive the blast that reduced everything to smoldering rubble around him, with broken armor and no shields.
#39521
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:47
Restrider
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spotlessvoid wrote...
As Davik has repeatedly pointed out, the breath scene armor seems to match the hallucination armor.
Now this could mean several things...
Shepard had the armor damaged by Harbingers blast. It's logical the armor would match somewhat (we don't see arms and head) and that the blast would damage his armor. Still, this takes away from impact the armor switch after waking up from the blast.
The hallucination starts earlier and Shepard's armor is damaged another way, such as the shuttle crash. It still doesn't explain the armor switch.
The hallucination starts sometime after Shepard gets up from the blast. Like when he enters the beam or ascends to the decision chamber.
It's an easter egg, pre-rendered and it really would require significant work to make one for all combinations. They felt it was post credits and felt it acceptable to not make it consistent to what armor your Shepard is wearing.
Shepard still hasn't woken up.
Shepard really was on the citadel and took a swig from a bottle of invincibility potion to survive the blast that reduced everything to smoldering rubble around him, with broken armor and no shields.
I think there are two reasons why the breathe scene features the same armor as in the post-beam sequences:
1.) If Shepard has another type of armor, it would be too obvious that there is something off (though I would guess that a lot of the Control/Synthesis folks would handwave that aswell.
2.) Since it's a rendered scene, they cannot take into account any custom armour, thus they use the standard armour of the series.
#39522
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:50
Restrider
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Restrider wrote...
That may explain those trees we see in the reflections.starlitegirlx wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
That is a map of the Presidium Tower in ME1. The top is where the lift is, the ring is where the fountain is, etc. At the bottom is where you meet the council.
It does look like a Reaper, but it has nothing to do with the end of ME3. The Reapers built the Citadel, so it would be their kind of humour to let that room look like a Reaper.
I wonder if they planted the pretty cherry blossom trees too? Maybe sent in the collectors with some gardening sheers.
#39523
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 06:59
spotlessvoid
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1. I thought so too, but it does put somewhat into question the significance of the armor switch overall.
2. This is very possible. Like I said, it's a post credits easter egg.
Still, it's not unfair for some to ask if Bioware is confirming the post blast events are at least partially real.
2. This is very possible. Like I said, it's a post credits easter egg.
Still, it's not unfair for some to ask if Bioware is confirming the post blast events are at least partially real.
#39524
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 07:05
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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If we start examining the outfit in the breath scene, now we are tipping our toes into dream within a dream stuff. Shepard chooses destroy and thinks he/she is free, BUT, once you are indoctrinated to that degree CAN you get out? Those who find a way out shoot themselves in the head. If they don't find a way out they end up killed by shepard and crew. This is factual in game history.
So if shepard is indoctrinated or undergoing such intensive indoctrination is it possible to break free? Leviathan let Shepard free. Didn't look like shepard was going to get free on his/her own. So maybe you think you are free (Didn't Saren and Illusive man think they were free while they were doing the bidding of the reapers?) are you really free? Wow! What a statement about indoctrination within society!
Seems we may actually be converging onto dream within a dream and that Shepard only thinks she/he has won but is still caught in the grip of indoctrination. No waking up. Just imagining waking up.
Edited to add: If Shepard is the only one who could snap victims out of indoctrination and shepard is indoctrinated or being indoctrinated, who snaps shepard out of it?
So if shepard is indoctrinated or undergoing such intensive indoctrination is it possible to break free? Leviathan let Shepard free. Didn't look like shepard was going to get free on his/her own. So maybe you think you are free (Didn't Saren and Illusive man think they were free while they were doing the bidding of the reapers?) are you really free? Wow! What a statement about indoctrination within society!
Seems we may actually be converging onto dream within a dream and that Shepard only thinks she/he has won but is still caught in the grip of indoctrination. No waking up. Just imagining waking up.
Edited to add: If Shepard is the only one who could snap victims out of indoctrination and shepard is indoctrinated or being indoctrinated, who snaps shepard out of it?
Modifié par starlitegirlx, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .
#39525
Posté 25 octobre 2012 - 07:07
Restrider
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The problem is, you cannot get any relaible information on the endings from the authors/producers...
Why is that?
Imagine if they confirmed that:
a) Post breath is on Earth.
Guardian is not the Catalyst.
c) Guardian is Harbinger/Reaper.
.
.
.
What I want to say is, they do not answer these questions, because any little misplaced word could not only hint, but really proof that there is something off in the endings.
And I do not consider the statements of the community managers as "canon"/important enough, since they probably are as much in the dark as we are.
Why is that?
Imagine if they confirmed that:
a) Post breath is on Earth.
Guardian is not the Catalyst.c) Guardian is Harbinger/Reaper.
.
.
.
What I want to say is, they do not answer these questions, because any little misplaced word could not only hint, but really proof that there is something off in the endings.
And I do not consider the statements of the community managers as "canon"/important enough, since they probably are as much in the dark as we are.
