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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#39701
TSA_383

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

magnetite wrote...

Cool! what is the inverted color of the blue explosion and green one?


Synthesis and Control are both red actually. Inverted, they look like oily shadows. Just like our "oily Starchild" friend there. 

Another thing I was going to note that with Synthesis, there is a slight yellow tinge to it. Maybe that's what the Rachni said with the "sour yellow note".

Yes and if I just pump everything into the red channel it all is red! :o
Implications...

:lol:

FFZero wrote...

Interesting, and random, little thing I just found out. The music that plays at the end of all of the dreams just before Shepard wakes is a tiny excerpt of the song called Defeat on the soundtrack which I believe is the song that plays at the end of the Thessia level. 

Also are there any questions you guys want me to ask Chris and Jessica at the MCMExpo over the weekend?


Try asking them "what's the purpose of the breath scene?"


I doubt you'll get an even vaugely useful answer, but it'll be interesting to see anyway.

Oh, another good one would be "are there going to be new citadel levels as part of the Omega DLC".
Given that we know there are Citadel missions in the works, that would imply that the "Guardian" DLC was real if they deny it ;)

Modifié par TSA_383, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:10 .


#39702
Rifneno

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Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


That's why I made sure to word it that we MOSTLY agree.  I knew there'd be some stupid defense of the crucible like this.

#39703
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.

#39704
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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magnetite wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yes and if I just pump everything into the red channel it all is red! :o
Implications...


Okay. Here's another way to look at it. TIM is the leader of a terrorist organization. Anderson is one of your best friends. Who are you going to trust?


Agreed but if I'm right at least:

-Anderson (in 'reality') is now indoctrinated
-Illusive Man actually has a real plan (possibly involving using hugely old cycle tech onto the Omega Crucible)

Arg, the layers of depth...drowning... :pinched:

#39705
BatmanTurian

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SwobyJ wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.


I wonder if we should start investigating the real Rio to get some kind of clue.

#39706
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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magnetite wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

As said use the color coding of ME1, Reapers/Geth blue while Alliance/Citadel has red markings. Having the alliance to suddenly be blue is a very strange decision they made for the last game...


It may not be for the entire game, but just this scene with the Starchild where it gets reversed. They make it look like control and synthesis are actually good choices then, bam, indoctrinated. 


Like I've said before:
-Synthesis is already happening and is good. The Reaper path to synthesis is ruination.
-Control is valid and quite possible, even if super dangerous. However, the Reaper path to control is ruination.
-Destruction... we've used Reaper tech for destruction of them. It's fine. Blow em to hell.

It's all contextual.

IMO TIM is up to a larger plan than our limited Shepard understands. It involves info of the Leviathans, previous cycles, and understanding of Reaper methods and mindset.

It may be the 'Sith' path to Mass Effect, but I'm pretty sure they WILL have a point where we will understand Cerberus as a truly grey group, and the Alliance as compromised to the Reaper plan (RUN INTO BEAM DERP).

#39707
Bill Casey

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Rifneno wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


That's why I made sure to word it that we MOSTLY agree.  I knew there'd be some stupid defense of the crucible like this.

It's not a stupid defense...
If the crucible is a trap, then it makes no sense for the Reapers to even talk to Shepard, let alone try and change his mind...
The dreamscape is a trap...

One you break by wanting to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:21 .


#39708
Rifneno

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SwobyJ wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.


I can't see resisting indoctrination bringing down Harbinger.  Shepard can't be the only organic to EVER resist.  They're just very rare.  The rachni queen and Shalia (sp?  damnit, I never remember how to spell her name) both resisted it too.  Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

Seriously, why does everyone think Rio is so damn important?  Because we got a MP map there and the N7 facility is/was there?  Maybe one of the writers just finds a place where the caterpillars can murder you interesting.

#39709
Bill Casey

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Rifneno wrote...

Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

And a walking billboard for destroy...
He's just too much of a dick to be corruptible...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:23 .


#39710
paxxton

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BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".

Modifié par paxxton, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .


#39711
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


Haha.. I think the Crucible is plenty of things.

1)A trap
2)A proper weapon
3)A decoy
4)A method of winning the war
5)A tool of establishing dominance

It's a test for everyone, all the factions. Leviathans, Reapers, organics, synthetics, Alliance, Prothians, everyone having played a part in it before. It's the 'Iron Throne', the 'One Ring', all that shiz.

And its also the big thing not really explained at all yet, especially with the Leviathan shifty eyes about it.

I do agree with the reservations about Anderson/Hackett, and I think the story is bigger than any of us can understand yet.

#39712
Big_Boss9

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.


I can't see resisting indoctrination bringing down Harbinger.  Shepard can't be the only organic to EVER resist.  They're just very rare.  The rachni queen and Shalia (sp?  damnit, I never remember how to spell her name) both resisted it too.  Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

Seriously, why does everyone think Rio is so damn important?  Because we got a MP map there and the N7 facility is/was there?  Maybe one of the writers just finds a place where the caterpillars can murder you interesting.

Agreed. I also don't like any theory that posits Harbinger's destruction will simultaneously take down/disable/free the rest of the Reaper fleet. Too simple and contrived.

OT: I'm amused/shocked by Gamble and Weekes' comments on twitter about spending actual money on MP packs (Gamble spent $290:blink:). You'd think they'd get all access. :mellow:

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:29 .


#39713
BatmanTurian

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paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".


lol
" I will kill you, Harbinger! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

Garrus: " Is something wrong with Shepard?"
Tali: " I think she's on a loop or something. Must be a human thing."
Garrus: "Humans are wierd"

"...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...."

#39714
BatmanTurian

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paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".


It seems to be the studio that did Eureka Seven and Deadman Wonderland. I think it's called BONES. Not sure, but it looks like their style.

#39715
Rifneno

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Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


That's why I made sure to word it that we MOSTLY agree.  I knew there'd be some stupid defense of the crucible like this.

It's not a stupid defense...
If the crucible is a trap, then it makes no sense for the Reapers to even talk to Shepard, let alone try and change his mind...
The dreamscape is a trap...

One you break by wanting to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap and yet for and I quote "countless cycles" missed the plans for a superweapon that could destroy them is utterly idiotic.  No sugar coating here.  That's just stupid as hell.  Synthesis levels of dumb.
- The Reapers never make a move against the Crucible.  You can put indoctrinated rachni in it, pretty much beyond doubt telling the Reapers about the Crucible and where it is.  They don't come for it.  Nor do they care to attack it while it's wide open at Earth.
- The look Leviathan's avatar gives when you ask about it.  That shifty looking around trying to decide what to say followed by claiming not to know anything.  It knows something.
- Among the quotes everyone repeats from the writers pre-release that talks about all the things that only IT can make true is the mention of not having a deus ex machina or Reaper "off switch."  The crucible is both.  Figuratively and literally.

The crucible is a trap.  You only cling to the idea otherwise because of your nonsense notion that IT doesn't require additional content because "it's implied we win" and the fact of the matter is that there's no apparent road to victory when you accept that the crucible is bull.

#39716
paxxton

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BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".


It seems to be the studio that did Eureka Seven and Deadman Wonderland. I think it's called BONES. Not sure, but it looks like their style.

Dunno. I'm not into anime so much as to know who's who in the industry Posted Image but I might get Paragon Lost cause it's Mass Effect after all.

#39717
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.


I can't see resisting indoctrination bringing down Harbinger.  Shepard can't be the only organic to EVER resist.  They're just very rare.  The rachni queen and Shalia (sp?  damnit, I never remember how to spell her name) both resisted it too.  Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

Seriously, why does everyone think Rio is so damn important?  Because we got a MP map there and the N7 facility is/was there?  Maybe one of the writers just finds a place where the caterpillars can murder you interesting.


1)What if enthrallment of this nature (which is what I consider it. The Citadel sequence is both winning over indoctrination, and losing your resistance at the same time) takes a toll on the enthraller as well?
It would make sense. We notice Sovereign losing power to shields after the Saren-Husk is destroyed.

2)Rachni queen, thorian, etc are resistant to indoctrination because, imo, they don't fit the Cycles. The Cycle races may be deliberately engineered to go down certain tech lines to controlling the galaxy (as far as they know), yet be succeptable to indoctrination.
However, I do think (pure speculation) that the Leviathans are also tampering, in even more hidden ways, with the cycles. The Prothians could be the seeming final result of this, yet they failed because they lacked diversity.

3)What?
Did you miss the common references to:
-Beach
-a bar in Rio
-having drinks together in celebration
Just to start?

#39718
BatmanTurian

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paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".


It seems to be the studio that did Eureka Seven and Deadman Wonderland. I think it's called BONES. Not sure, but it looks like their style.

Dunno. I'm not into anime so much as to know who's who in the industry Posted Image but I might get Paragon Lost cause it's Mass Effect after all.


Well, they're known for being terrific in the industry, so it's a good thing Bioware chose them.

#39719
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


That's why I made sure to word it that we MOSTLY agree.  I knew there'd be some stupid defense of the crucible like this.

It's not a stupid defense...
If the crucible is a trap, then it makes no sense for the Reapers to even talk to Shepard, let alone try and change his mind...
The dreamscape is a trap...

One you break by wanting to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


I think the Reapers want Shepard for him to be the next Harbinger-class Reaper avatar.

#39720
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

And a walking billboard for destroy...
He's just too much of a dick to be corruptible...


I think he's very corruptable.

But he was put in a pod and was born after his time to shine.

#39721
paxxton

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BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

9-minute long sneak peek of Paragon Lost.


it looks cool. Obviously, Rif will hate it with every fiber of his being.

Why's that? Rifnenosan despises anime, or what?

Basically.

Tbh, it'd be better if Paragon Lost was as realistic as possible (something along the lines of Spirit Within). But at least it's not Dragon Ball, where half an episode is just shouting "Aaaaaa".


It seems to be the studio that did Eureka Seven and Deadman Wonderland. I think it's called BONES. Not sure, but it looks like their style.

Dunno. I'm not into anime so much as to know who's who in the industry Posted Image but I might get Paragon Lost cause it's Mass Effect after all.


Well, they're known for being terrific in the industry, so it's a good thing Bioware chose them.

Lego Shepard disapproves.

#39722
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Big_Boss9 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I'm hoping that the breath scene is just the beginning of the illusion melting away. For instance Shepard is in the rubble at first in the burnt armor, then the rubble disappears and the armor goes back to his casual attire on the Normandy or something as the illusion completely dissipates.

Because frankly, even if he does wake up in London, what good is it? He's still already spent the bulk of the galaxy's military force in a suicidal battle to get the Crucible going. You know, that thing we mostly all agree is a trap. Where's the road to victory if the assault on Earth was really happening? I don't see it happening. The cut off point has to happen before Shepard goes through with that damning plan.


Shepard might have wrecked Harbinger in the battle of the minds.

Also wrecking his control (of sorts) over fellow Reapers.

We head to Rio, for some reason, where the true finale occurs.


I can't see resisting indoctrination bringing down Harbinger.  Shepard can't be the only organic to EVER resist.  They're just very rare.  The rachni queen and Shalia (sp?  damnit, I never remember how to spell her name) both resisted it too.  Arguably Javik as well.  Hell, Javik's probably the best case.

Seriously, why does everyone think Rio is so damn important?  Because we got a MP map there and the N7 facility is/was there?  Maybe one of the writers just finds a place where the caterpillars can murder you interesting.

Agreed. I also don't like any theory that posits Harbinger's destruction will simultaneously take down/disable/free the rest of the Reaper fleet. Too simple and contrived.

OT: I'm amused/shocked by Gamble and Weekes' comments on twitter about spending actual money on MP packs (Gamble spent $290:blink:). You'd think they'd get all access. :mellow:


I don't think it'll just be his destruction or whatever. We'll see.

I DO think that each Reaper (the main ones) are indoctrinated in themselves. If we can break this, who knows what could happen?

#39723
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't agree that the crucible is a trap...
We only get the breathe scene if Shepard still wants to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


That's why I made sure to word it that we MOSTLY agree.  I knew there'd be some stupid defense of the crucible like this.

It's not a stupid defense...
If the crucible is a trap, then it makes no sense for the Reapers to even talk to Shepard, let alone try and change his mind...
The dreamscape is a trap...

One you break by wanting to use the crucible to destroy the reapers...


- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap and yet for and I quote "countless cycles" missed the plans for a superweapon that could destroy them is utterly idiotic.  No sugar coating here.  That's just stupid as hell.  Synthesis levels of dumb.
- The Reapers never make a move against the Crucible.  You can put indoctrinated rachni in it, pretty much beyond doubt telling the Reapers about the Crucible and where it is.  They don't come for it.  Nor do they care to attack it while it's wide open at Earth.
- The look Leviathan's avatar gives when you ask about it.  That shifty looking around trying to decide what to say followed by claiming not to know anything.  It knows something.
- Among the quotes everyone repeats from the writers pre-release that talks about all the things that only IT can make true is the mention of not having a deus ex machina or Reaper "off switch."  The crucible is both.  Figuratively and literally.

The crucible is a trap.  You only cling to the idea otherwise because of your nonsense notion that IT doesn't require additional content because "it's implied we win" and the fact of the matter is that there's no apparent road to victory when you accept that the crucible is bull.


Agreed... however, I don't think its only a trap.

Crucible can mean a crucible not just for one person/faction.

#39724
BatmanTurian

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paxxton wrote...

Lego Shepard disapproves.


ew lego.... bleh

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:41 .


#39725
GethPrimeMKII

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I think i like how paragon lost looks. As long as it doesnt screw with the lore the way deception did, Im good.