80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

I can't see resisting indoctrination bringing down Harbinger. Shepard can't be the only organic to EVER resist. They're just very rare. The rachni queen and Shalia (sp? damnit, I never remember how to spell her name) both resisted it too.

Shepard: Can you still feel the Reapers? Can they influence you?
Rachni Queen: We hear the machines, but they cannot control us.

Shiala: I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.



Shepard: Not everyone resists with firebombs and guns. Especially if they don't have them.

EDI: But this was not a statistically insignificant number. Ninety percent refused to report their fellow prisoners. Indoctrination should have reduced the number of rebels to nearly zero.

Shepard: Maybe word got out how indoctrination worked. And they made a decision.

EDI: I see.

[Rifneno]

SwobyJ wrote...

1)What if enthrallment of this nature (which is what I consider it. The Citadel sequence is both winning over indoctrination, and losing your resistance at the same time) takes a toll on the enthraller as well?
It would make sense. We notice Sovereign losing power to shields after the Saren-Husk is destroyed.

Sovereign was dead in the water. Well, so to speak. Not just his shields, all his systems seemed to be offline. He had stopped firing back and he had started just drifting like debris rather than clinging to the Citadel. We're told this happens when their avatar is destroyed. That's why Harbinger released the Collector General right before the base went nuclear.

3)What?
Did you miss the common references to:
-Beach
-a bar in Rio
-having drinks together in celebration
Just to start?

The world's full of beaches and bars. The only time it's mentioned in-game is one line from Jacob. Which admittedly I forgot about it. When he said it I was too busy imagining the chance to drop a Brazilian wandering spider down his pants while we were there.

[BatmanTurian]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I think i like how paragon lost looks. As long as it doesnt screw with the lore the way deception did, Im good.

it looked fairly accurate. They were fighting bloodpack and some of the bloodpack were indoctrinated in ME2 on Omega.

[Andromidius]

Rifneno wrote...
- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap and yet for and I quote "countless cycles" missed the plans for a superweapon that could destroy them is utterly idiotic.  No sugar coating here.  That's just stupid as hell.  Synthesis levels of dumb.

Honestly that's all I need to know to deduce the Crucible isn't what it seems to be.

Its like finding out you have a bank account worth billions of dollars, only the catch is that its located in Nigeria and you need to give your bank account details to get access to it.  Someone is trying to honeytrap you into giving you everything you've got.

"An ancient secret weapon designed to defeat the Reapers, you say?  Only no-one knows how it works or what it does?  Sure, I'll divert all our resources away from repairing and building ships and weapons to fight this war and put it all into this project!  And I'll get all our allies to do the same thing!  What could possibly go wrong?"

...yeah.

[Bill Casey]

Rifneno wrote...

- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap

Let me stop you right there...
Vigil...

[Andromidius]

Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap

Let me stop you right there...
Vigil...

Yep.  One isolated case of something surviving the Reapers, due to managing to cut themselves off from the Galaxy before they were discovered.

Now imagine that happening hundreds or thousands of times.  With the Reapers knowing these plans exist, and undoubtably looking for them so they can destroy them.

Not very likely.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap

Let me stop you right there...
Vigil...

Bill's got a point... then there was also the beacons....

[Bill Casey]

And Javik...

[Andromidius]

And both know nothing about the Crucible plans.

Plans that basically fall into their lap right at the moment they need something big to turn the tide.

And you're still not suspitious.

Right.

[spotlessvoid]

How about the fact that Harbinger solo guards the Beam? The only path to the crucible, and he doesn't enlist any help. Almost like he wanted to make sure nobody f'd up and killed Shepard.

[Rifneno]

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap and yet for and I quote "countless cycles" missed the plans for a superweapon that could destroy them is utterly idiotic.  No sugar coating here.  That's just stupid as hell.  Synthesis levels of dumb.

Honestly that's all I need to know to deduce the Crucible isn't what it seems to be.

Its like finding out you have a bank account worth billions of dollars, only the catch is that its located in Nigeria and you need to give your bank account details to get access to it.  Someone is trying to honeytrap you into giving you everything you've got.

"An ancient secret weapon designed to defeat the Reapers, you say?  Only no-one knows how it works or what it does?  Sure, I'll divert all our resources away from repairing and building ships and weapons to fight this war and put it all into this project!  And I'll get all our allies to do the same thing!  What could possibly go wrong?"

...yeah.

LOL, yeah, that about sums it up.  And notice how no matter what you choose, Shepard's not buying into it at first?

Shepard: I'm a soldier. I should be back on Earth fighting, not wasting my time with this.
Liara: If it's going to work, we need you.
Liara: Shepard?
Liara: Isn't it worth trying, at least?
Shepard: I'm going to check on Ash.

Way to dodge the question, Shep!

Turian Councilor: Do you really believe this can stop the Reapers?
Shepard: I believe in trying.

He's good at this. I'd hate to play dodgeball with Shepard. I don't know who has reach, but Shepard obviously has flexibility.

I don't have the text dump for From Ashes handy, but I'm told Javik doesn't buy into the magic I win button either.

[401 Kill]

Andromidius wrote...

And both know nothing about the Crucible plans.

Plans that basically fall into their lap right at the moment they need something big to turn the tide.

And you're still not suspitious.

Right.

Not to mention they don't even know what it is that the Crucible does... Yet they put every las resource into building and protecting it.

Modifié par 401 Kill, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:00 .

[plfranke]

Well some of it is just bad writing guys. Even if IT is the answer to the endings, there are elements of the game that are poorly executed, even IT itself in some places. At some point, even if some of these ridiculous things come down to, "It was a trap" the story as a whole loses credibility, because the player doesn't know what to trust as real, true or friendly.

Indoctrination itself is a poor mechanic because there is not a clearly defined line of what causes indoctrination and what prevents it. For instance, take the average gamer who has not read any of the mass effect books. They played me1 and me2 and start me3. They would have no idea what the hell is going on unless they'd been scanning the internet looking for answers to all the plots that are only discussed during the books. Who the hell is James Vega? Why did Cerberus just attack me when I saved the base and me and TIM were bros at the end of the game? This is not well done, and such things as "We leave no record of anything except for a VI from the past cycle explaining how to stop us down to the last detail." are just more subtle examples of poor writing.

[plfranke]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap and yet for and I quote "countless cycles" missed the plans for a superweapon that could destroy them is utterly idiotic.  No sugar coating here.  That's just stupid as hell.  Synthesis levels of dumb.

Honestly that's all I need to know to deduce the Crucible isn't what it seems to be.

Its like finding out you have a bank account worth billions of dollars, only the catch is that its located in Nigeria and you need to give your bank account details to get access to it.  Someone is trying to honeytrap you into giving you everything you've got.

"An ancient secret weapon designed to defeat the Reapers, you say?  Only no-one knows how it works or what it does?  Sure, I'll divert all our resources away from repairing and building ships and weapons to fight this war and put it all into this project!  And I'll get all our allies to do the same thing!  What could possibly go wrong?"

...yeah.

LOL, yeah, that about sums it up.  And notice how no matter what you choose, Shepard's not buying into it at first?

Shepard: I'm a soldier. I should be back on Earth fighting, not wasting my time with this.
Liara: If it's going to work, we need you.
Liara: Shepard?
Liara: Isn't it worth trying, at least?
Shepard: I'm going to check on Ash.

Way to dodge the question, Shep!

Turian Councilor: Do you really believe this can stop the Reapers?
Shepard: I believe in trying.

He's good at this. I'd hate to play dodgeball with Shepard. I don't know who has reach, but Shepard obviously has flexibility.

I don't have the text dump for From Ashes handy, but I'm told Javik doesn't buy into the magic I win button either.

And Shepard is just this cycle's Javik so that's no surprise.

[Bill Casey]

spotlessvoid wrote...

How about the fact that Harbinger solo guards the Beam? The only path to the crucible, and he doesn't enlist any help. Almost like he wanted to make sure nobody f'd up and killed Shepard.

Yeah...
About that...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:04 .

[spotlessvoid]

If the crucible is a trap, and the Reapers are running a con, Vigil and the Beacons could be traps as well. The crucible could be a red hering deigned to waste time and resources and keep organics from focusing on a direct assault. It could also be designed as a lure for anyone like Shepard to, oh I dunno, walk directly into a Reaper Beam

[spotlessvoid]

I dont know what that is Bill

[Bill Casey]

That is the crash right before the beam run...
Shepard stumbles head first and then the screen goes black...
That is where the mind fight starts...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

If the crucible is a trap, and the Reapers are running a con, Vigil and the Beacons could be traps as well. The crucible could be a red hering deigned to waste time and resources and keep organics from focusing on a direct assault. It could also be designed as a lure for anyone like Shepard to, oh I dunno, walk directly into a Reaper Beam

Vigil has been called into question many times by many people.  The beacons, not so much.

[Humakt83]

I wonder if there is a possibility that Leviathans inhabit Earth's oceans. It would partially help to explain humanity's relatively sudden rise to power on galactic level.

Modifié par Humakt83, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Rifneno]

Humakt83 wrote...

I wonder if there is a possibility that Leviathans inhabit Earth's oceans. It would partially help to explain humanity's relatively sudden rise to power on galactic level.

Sure, we've even heard it.  Hail Cthulhu!

[spotlessvoid]

So how do they get to crucible if the indoctrination attempt starts at the shuttle crash, Bill?