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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#39851
Arashi08

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...


I know this has probably been talked about to death already but I was thinking about this so I thought I'd share it.

I was gonna suggest that maybe the Crucible is part of the cycles, since according to Leviathan the cycles always end with the birth of a Reaper, and that maybe the reason here is no Prothean Reaper was because they failed to finish it and the fact that the control ending seems to suggest that Shepard does become a Reaper and that they are building a Reaper inside the Citadel.

However, I am less inclined to believe this now because of the existence of Synthesis and Destroy, unless they are arguing that everyone before Shepard always picked Control and Synthesis. plus, i don't think it is implied that they are creating a Reaper until you are supposedly on the citadel, which according to IT (or some forms of IT) is only occuring in a hallucination.

Still, I always wondered if maybe the Crucible was the means by which a Reaper was finished, by introducing a powerful individual with strong will to become the dominant will within the collective Reaper consciousness. But going over the evidence it does seem less likely to me.


Well, given that Anderson is just part of Shepard's mind, it's just Shepard realising that's what they could be doing. It's like

***THE DARK KNIGHT RISES SPOILERS***

When the vision of Ducard appears in front of Bruce Wayne and reveals he was the mercenary being talked about, then fades away. Since he was dead, he obviously wasn't really there, that was just Bruce realising Ducard was the Mercenary.

***END SPOILERS***

Organics are beyond saving and must be aloud to die!


It is rather funny tht the League of Shadows and the Reapers have similar levels of arrogance, believing they can take other people's lives into their own hands while being the "Bringers of Judgment" down upon people.  The Leviathans were just as arrogant in thinking they were a "superior" lifeform, and that arrogance carried over to the Reapers.

Also, off topic but I was curious if any writers on this thread have any good tips for getting past writer's block?  I will know attempt to integrate this question into the topic...

...maybe if IT isn't real, writer's block might have been what the ME writers were going through?

/Fail Posted Image

#39852
BansheeOwnage

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Arashi08 wrote...

@Banshee Thx! Posted Image  It has remained unique to me so far, which is awesome!  (At least on this thread anyway Posted Image)

Yeah, I haven't ran into anyone with mine yet either!

#39853
BansheeOwnage

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

What did Fabrice mean when he said that the new protagonist won't "resemble" Shepard since Shepard is customizable and developed via player choice?


LOL I said something about this saying that I bet lots of people will make their character resemble Shepard and name him/her Shepard

I, for one, will. I was thinking the same thing.

@Arashi Don't forget the Shadows and Reapers both want salvation through destruction.

#39854
spotlessvoid

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How about Mass Effect: Citadel Groundskeeper

#39855
Arashi08

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

What did Fabrice mean when he said that the new protagonist won't "resemble" Shepard since Shepard is customizable and developed via player choice?


LOL I said something about this saying that I bet lots of people will make their character resemble Shepard and name him/her Shepard

I, for one, will. I was thinking the same thing.

@Arashi Don't forget the Shadows and Reapers both want salvation through destruction.


Ya I'm thinking that's what they mean too.  As ME3 is now I don't see myself being excited about ME4 or DA3, unless BioWare can deliver on ME3 I'm gonna say that their prime has passed and I will have to seek out other companies to tell good stories in video games.

@Banshee Indeed, that also ties in with the arrogance thing.  To honestly believe that you think you KNOW destroying something will make things better...despite how old the Catalyst is, it clearly has the mentality of a child. same goes for Rah'z Al Ghuul. (spelling)

#39856
BansheeOwnage

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spotlessvoid wrote...

How about Mass Effect: Citadel Groundskeeper


Hey, you're a female right?


So funny!

#39857
BleedingUranium

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spotlessvoid wrote...

How about Mass Effect: Citadel Groundskeeper



#39858
BansheeOwnage

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Arashi08 wrote...

Ya I'm thinking that's what they mean too.  As ME3 is now I don't see myself being excited about ME4 or DA3, unless BioWare can deliver on ME3 I'm gonna say that their prime has passed and I will have to seek out other companies to tell good stories in video games.

@Banshee Indeed, that also ties in with the arrogance thing.  To honestly believe that you think you KNOW destroying something will make things better...despite how old the Catalyst is, it clearly has the mentality of a child. same goes for Rah'z Al Ghuul. (spelling)

Yeah, I'm not at all excited for ME4 at the moment either.

Ra's al Ghul by the way. Liam Neeson is awesome. Posted Image

#39859
spotlessvoid

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BleedingUranium wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

How about Mass Effect: Citadel Groundskeeper


Sounds like a puzzle game waiting to be made

#39860
CmdrShep80

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BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

- First and most importantly, the idea that the Reapers' cleanup was so thorough that no one even managed to leave a caveman esque painting of the Citadel showing it to be a trap


Let me stop you right there...
Vigil...


Bill's got a point... then there was also the beacons....


and Ilos Reapers missed everyone on Illos

#39861
Heimdall

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Hrothdane wrote...

What did Fabrice mean when he said that the new protagonist won't "resemble" Shepard since Shepard is customizable and developed via player choice?

I believe the meaning was that the new character wouldn't be soldier like Shepard was.  Still a shooter, just not a military shooter.

#39862
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Lord Aesir wrote...


Hrothdane wrote...

What did Fabrice mean when he said that the new protagonist won't "resemble" Shepard since Shepard is customizable and developed via player choice?

I believe the meaning was that the new character wouldn't be soldier like Shepard was.  Still a shooter, just not a military shooter.


I'm with you on that. I could see things taking a more adventurous tone, or something else.


And by the way guys, this is cool! youtu.be/gUmOkxIq0FI
:D

Interesting how Rio is shown in the background there, along with the idea of Shepard's allies 'will not fail'.

#39863
CmdrShep80

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Bill Casey wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

So, if the beam run isn't real how do we get to the citadel?

Bill?

Use the beam?


Why can't we do this again?  If anyone can give me a good reason why I might be ok with it

Mass Effect - Ilos Walkthrough Part 3 (Return To The Citadel) Watch from 1:15 until 2:30

Can anyone explain why this is not possible?  The Illos relay is a back door that was not damaged after you left.  The portal was opened by Seren and can be opened again.

If you notice by 2:30 of the vid, the back door relay on the Citadel was not damaged either.  As far as we all know it's still there.

Ilos relay description watch from 4:04 to 4:09 - Vigil explains it's purpose

#39864
CmdrShep80

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IsaacShep wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hehe. All the talk about MMO's earlier had me imagining them doing an ME-based MMO. The last raid fight being at London and right when you think it's over and the top guild has beaten everything until the expansion comes out, some sort of Reaperized Shepard comes out and goes Kerafyrm on their asses out of nowhere. I can't imagine it ever happening, but it'd be a fun reveal.

I think the 'threat' of the next ME game being an MMO has been pretty much eliminated after TOR. EA won't want to risk again


Thank goodness.  I prefer ME in a single player format for the story not to run around and complete endless quests.  I like having an ending to my games. 

#39865
Rifneno

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SwobyJ wrote...

1. Well like I was saying, I don't think they're dead or anything.
But if they're seemingly landing en masse... something could be up.
Like the death or incapacitation of Harbinger. /specuations

I keep remembering their PR campaign... "Take Earth Back" was the incessent message. I know it makes sense to do something like that, but it seemed everything centered on Earth and taking it back, instead of winning a galactic war.


Eh. I don't know... they looked an awful lot like that in the trailers when they showed the initial invasion. It could indeed be something's up, but it might not be good. The likliest scenario I can see for all those Reapers coming down to Earth is if the space battle is over with. Which would mean Sword is defeated. Which would be incredibly bad.

SwobyJ wrote...

Thing is, out of 19ish squadmates, at least 15-16ish of them can die at some point in the series.

Any proper writer would know that they'll have to be cut loose at some point.


They could always do what the Dragon Age team did and just resurrect whoever they wanted and tell the fans to suck it.

... I sure as hell hope not though. It'd be nice if this company still had one respectable series.

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Why can't we do this again? If anyone can give me a good reason why I might be ok with it

Mass Effect - Ilos Walkthrough Part 3 (Return To The Citadel) Watch from 1:15 until 2:30


Notice that countdown timer in the corner? See what happens if you let it run out.

#39866
CmdrShep80

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

1. Well like I was saying, I don't think they're dead or anything.
But if they're seemingly landing en masse... something could be up.
Like the death or incapacitation of Harbinger. /specuations

I keep remembering their PR campaign... "Take Earth Back" was the incessent message. I know it makes sense to do something like that, but it seemed everything centered on Earth and taking it back, instead of winning a galactic war.


Eh. I don't know... they looked an awful lot like that in the trailers when they showed the initial invasion. It could indeed be something's up, but it might not be good. The likliest scenario I can see for all those Reapers coming down to Earth is if the space battle is over with. Which would mean Sword is defeated. Which would be incredibly bad.

SwobyJ wrote...

Thing is, out of 19ish squadmates, at least 15-16ish of them can die at some point in the series.

Any proper writer would know that they'll have to be cut loose at some point.


They could always do what the Dragon Age team did and just resurrect whoever they wanted and tell the fans to suck it.

... I sure as hell hope not though. It'd be nice if this company still had one respectable series.

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Why can't we do this again? If anyone can give me a good reason why I might be ok with it

Mass Effect - Ilos Walkthrough Part 3 (Return To The Citadel) Watch from 1:15 until 2:30


Notice that countdown timer in the corner? See what happens if you let it run out.


Since I never did let it run out, what happens?  There's no vids on that as far as I can find

#39867
CmdrShep80

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By the way what's the symbolism of this dream sequence?

Dream # omg so many now...  11:56 to 12:36

#39868
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Rifneno wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

1. Well like I was saying, I don't think they're dead or anything.
But if they're seemingly landing en masse... something could be up.
Like the death or incapacitation of Harbinger. /specuations

I keep remembering their PR campaign... "Take Earth Back" was the incessent message. I know it makes sense to do something like that, but it seemed everything centered on Earth and taking it back, instead of winning a galactic war.


Eh. I don't know... they looked an awful lot like that in the trailers when they showed the initial invasion. It could indeed be something's up, but it might not be good. The likliest scenario I can see for all those Reapers coming down to Earth is if the space battle is over with. Which would mean Sword is defeated. Which would be incredibly bad.

SwobyJ wrote...

Thing is, out of 19ish squadmates, at least 15-16ish of them can die at some point in the series.

Any proper writer would know that they'll have to be cut loose at some point.


They could always do what the Dragon Age team did and just resurrect whoever they wanted and tell the fans to suck it.

... I sure as hell hope not though. It'd be nice if this company still had one respectable series.

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Why can't we do this again? If anyone can give me a good reason why I might be ok with it

Mass Effect - Ilos Walkthrough Part 3 (Return To The Citadel) Watch from 1:15 until 2:30


Notice that countdown timer in the corner? See what happens if you let it run out.


If the fight for Earth is a trap and the Reapers won against the fleets, yet Shepard has 'won' against Harbinger...

It only brings the stakes that much higher.

Rio DLC will be the highest selling one ever. Hahaha.

#39869
CmdrShep80

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By the way if anyone is looking for something in the cutscenes, this person did a great job recording all the cutscenes so you can hunt down the section you need instead of wading through all the game play.  Though you'll still have to wade through the cutscenes.

Cutscenes

#39870
CmdrShep80

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Well this weekend's going to be tough. All I have is an N7 Crusader II. I don't have the other weapons. Looks like if you see someone shooting everything and anything with a Crusader it might just be me LOL

#39871
CmdrShep80

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can we start getting our points early?

#39872
plfranke

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Bill, do you have this notion that the Reapers just stop trying if Shepard resists indoctrination or something? A huge part of IT is that the face value endings are too ridiculous to be real. You are suggesting that IT is true but everything that happened is going to happen right after Shepard snaps out of his hallucination. Is Illusive Man going to show up on the Citadel too? Then you, Anderson and him are going to have another showdown? Come on now. We might as well say another AI will show up who takes the form of the kid but this time it will be actually happening. Your suggestion that the story should be abandoned just so that the player can get a sense of what it would be like facing indoctrination is turrible. TURRIBLE

#39873
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Holy moley... I'm watching Arrival right now and...

Do we have any actual proof that the Reapers can enter through the Alpha Relay?????

Oh my god....

EDIT: I mean by enter, the Reapers can use the Alpha relay to go anywhere else.

All we have is Kenson's word.. that she got from a Reaper artifact...

Modifié par SwobyJ, 26 octobre 2012 - 06:17 .


#39874
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Damn... damn...

Is Arrival just Harbinger... 'finding another way' to obtain Shepard?

Hackett...

Wow.

#39875
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Hackett wouldn't have (if he was indoctrinated) sent the Alliance on a suicide run against the Reapers because they still need everything set in place for the Crucible.

He wants the galaxy united to stop the Reapers.. but they have him...

If he's indoctrinated, its at a very low level, but enough to affect strategy.