80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

AresKeith wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Hrmm.

So Samara's loyalty mission. Morinth attempts to mind-control Sheppard (as she does with all her victims), but if Shep's paragon or renegade level is high enough he/she is able to resist it.

I'm sure we all know that already. But its interesting to see that Shepard can resist telepathic attack if his/her convictions are strong enough.

And you need high EMS to get all the choices

Which shows that a different system is at work here. Shepards will is tested in the confrontation with TIM, Shepards "might" as in the fleets she could gather is tested in the scene with the Guardian.

[Andromidius]

AresKeith wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Hrmm.

So Samara's loyalty mission. Morinth attempts to mind-control Sheppard (as she does with all her victims), but if Shep's paragon or renegade level is high enough he/she is able to resist it.

I'm sure we all know that already. But its interesting to see that Shepard can resist telepathic attack if his/her convictions are strong enough.

And you need high EMS to get all the choices

Indeed.  The two line up.  'Paragon' and 'Renegade' are arbitary numbers, just like EMS.  They represent strength, whether of compassion, ruthlessness or military strength.  None of them stop you from doing things, but each opens up new alternatives.

However my point is that maybe, after all the DLC is released...  We'll get that alternative route open up when our EMS is raised above a bar currently unobtainable.  Or one that is obtainable, but the ending hasn't been added in yet.  It would be delicious if a new option opened up beyond the Synthesis requirement, where Shepard realises things aren't adding up right and things aren't as they seem, and the illusion falls away as Starbinger desperately tries to retake control of the hallucination.

It wouldn't change any of the endings.  It wouldn't invalidate anyone's previous choices.  It would be the 'secret ending' then shows it was all a sham and Shepard overcomes the Reapers' greatest weapon.

[MegumiAzusa]

Andromidius wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Hrmm.

So Samara's loyalty mission. Morinth attempts to mind-control Sheppard (as she does with all her victims), but if Shep's paragon or renegade level is high enough he/she is able to resist it.

I'm sure we all know that already. But its interesting to see that Shepard can resist telepathic attack if his/her convictions are strong enough.

And you need high EMS to get all the choices

Indeed.  The two line up.  'Paragon' and 'Renegade' are arbitary numbers, just like EMS.  They represent strength, whether of compassion, ruthlessness or military strength.  None of them stop you from doing things, but each opens up new alternatives.

However my point is that maybe, after all the DLC is released...  We'll get that alternative route open up when our EMS is raised above a bar currently unobtainable.  Or one that is obtainable, but the ending hasn't been added in yet.  It would be delicious if a new option opened up beyond the Synthesis requirement, where Shepard realises things aren't adding up right and things aren't as they seem, and the illusion falls away as Starbinger desperately tries to retake control of the hallucination.

It wouldn't change any of the endings.  It wouldn't invalidate anyone's previous choices.  It would be the 'secret ending' then shows it was all a sham and Shepard overcomes the Reapers' greatest weapon.

No, even the Leviathans could easily take control over Shep. Even with the realization she is controlled she just cannot do anything against it. Reapers have perfected that method as the Leviathans say, there is no possible way to stand against it even if you know about it.
There is the chance the Reapers want to use Shepard for something special, but if they wanted to they could just assume direct control.

[AresKeith]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Hrmm.

So Samara's loyalty mission. Morinth attempts to mind-control Sheppard (as she does with all her victims), but if Shep's paragon or renegade level is high enough he/she is able to resist it.

I'm sure we all know that already. But its interesting to see that Shepard can resist telepathic attack if his/her convictions are strong enough.

And you need high EMS to get all the choices

Indeed.  The two line up.  'Paragon' and 'Renegade' are arbitary numbers, just like EMS.  They represent strength, whether of compassion, ruthlessness or military strength.  None of them stop you from doing things, but each opens up new alternatives.

However my point is that maybe, after all the DLC is released...  We'll get that alternative route open up when our EMS is raised above a bar currently unobtainable.  Or one that is obtainable, but the ending hasn't been added in yet.  It would be delicious if a new option opened up beyond the Synthesis requirement, where Shepard realises things aren't adding up right and things aren't as they seem, and the illusion falls away as Starbinger desperately tries to retake control of the hallucination.

It wouldn't change any of the endings.  It wouldn't invalidate anyone's previous choices.  It would be the 'secret ending' then shows it was all a sham and Shepard overcomes the Reapers' greatest weapon.

No, even the Leviathans could easily take control over Shep. Even with the realization she is controlled she just cannot do anything against it. Reapers have perfected that method as the Leviathans say, there is no possible way to stand against it even if you know about it.
There is the chance the Reapers want to use Shepard for something special, but if they wanted to they could just assume direct control.

Super Husk Shepard to be their avatar lol

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

To reiterate my last post:

The point why I post here rather then in other threads is the topic is generated as an open question. It encompasses any theory that is made. Other topics only allow discussion about their narrow interpretation. That is also why I'm puzzled when someone is told to create their own thread.

It's a closed question. A simple YES is sufficient to answer it. An open question would be "What makes the Ending a Hallucination?"

Modifié par paxxton, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
The point why I post here rather then in other threads is the topic is generated as an open question. It encompasses any theory that is made. Other topics only allow discussion about their narrow interpretation. That is also why I'm puzzled when someone is told to create their own thread.

It doesn't really though.  This is a cool place to post even for non-ITers because it generally doesn't devolve into a slagging match unless someone unnecessarily pushes something.  But this thread in general is united by the specific belief that everything after the beam blast is a dream.  And also that the breath scene is on Earth.

I was compelled to create my own thread for my own interpretation because I didn't agree with the previous two assertions.  The new thread allowed me and other posters to discuss various aspects of our different interpretations without incurring the wrath of the posters in this thread.

It made total sense for me to create that thread, just as it did for TJB to create his WNT.  Otherwise, his opinions (which can be seen to be just as valid as, though disparate from, those posited by IT) would simply have been swallowed by this thread and forgotten forever without getting a fair share of light.

MegumiAzusa wrote...
There is the chance the Reapers want to use Shepard for something special, but if they wanted to they could just assume direct control.

I doubt this tbh.  If they could assume direct control of everybody, why in the world wouldn't they just do it?  Why waste 3 years trying to kill Shep and pals with bullets and husks?

[Andromidius]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
No, even the Leviathans could easily take control over Shep. Even with the realization she is controlled she just cannot do anything against it. Reapers have perfected that method as the Leviathans say, there is no possible way to stand against it even if you know about it.
There is the chance the Reapers want to use Shepard for something special, but if they wanted to they could just assume direct control.

The Leviathans made that claim.  However, the fact they are 'convinced' otherwise by Shepard's very next sentence suggests there are limits even to their powers.  They don't seem sincere in the slightest, and are possibly unwilling to even be honest about their ability to enthrall a strong-willed individual, at least in an instantaneous manner.

[paxxton]

Some companies have no mercy on people using elevators.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .

[Rankincountry]

I have no shame...

Rankincountry wrote...

I had a thought on the topic of is Hackett indoctrinated, and it applies to other characters that we might be suspicious of but have no proof. One function of indoctrination that we haven't discussed much is that its mere existence could spread as much fear, panic and havoc behind the lines as the indoctrinated agents themselves. Think about it - it can affect anyone, its symptoms can be undetectable or attributed to stress for a long time. Anyone - friends, colleagues, family - anyone, could suddenly turn and no-one is immune.

Imagine the fear and mistrust this would cause - across the galaxy, whole communities will be tearing themselves apart over no more than suspicion. Those keen to settle scores could make accusations - mud sticks at the best of times, and think what a well-placed whisper could do in the environment of ME3.

For a real-world example, the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) from World War II is a good one. They leaked details of fictional missions that caused as much disruption to the Germans as the real ones they undertook (here's a wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Executive). Almost certainly, as well as the Reapers setting us at each others' throats via the mere concept of indoctrinated forces, indoctrinated agents are themselves undertaking deception and psychological operations behind the lines.

So to bring it back to Hackett - it's most likely Hackett is exactly what he seems, a loyal Alliance Admiral doing his level best to win a war of survival. But with a few deceiving clues here and there that actually amount to blind alleys, the writers have us doubting our own CO.

[shadoww6021]

found another piece of interesting evidence
be sure to check it out

[MegumiAzusa]

shadoww6021 wrote...

found another piece of interesting evidence
be sure to check it out

Not everything in that video is valid though, some of the sounds are indeed Reaper sounds, others are not. This video doesn't make any distinction though.

[BleedingUranium]

starlitegirlx wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

mrs.N7 wrote...
Well, one of you two could repost it, but only for me 

Sooo, what happened here this week? Any interesting discussion/post I should go and read? New speculations? Anything new? 

Here you go:

"Mass Effect 3 Omega DLC Spoilers

Shepard helps Aria T'Loak retake Omega
At the station suddenly attack us legions of Collectors.

Shepard learns the truth about Omega {station for the production collectors by reapers}
In addition, he finds the capsule of the Protheans.
We also learn why Illusion Man needed Omega
{transport the remains of the human reaper from outside the Omega 4 relay, and created the army on the basis of technology gained from the collectors base}
We will learn about the past Aria T'Loak about the death
of her daughter, and her former relationship with Wrex.
Harbinger will also return and Raymond Ashe

And much much more{A lot of the content}


Mass Effect 3 Guardian DLC Spoilers

The truth is close.Discover the mysteries and secrets
hidden in the heart of every civilization.

What is the Citadel. Is just the heart of every advanced
civilization?
Or perhaps lies in the interior of information that no
one has ever discovered?

Shepard gets into the mysteries part of the Citadel and
discover brutal truth about the Keepers and a trap which
is the Citadel.
The truth has never been so close.Go through the portal
and visit the dark world of Reapers{"Homeworld"}
{The place where the Keepers are created}
Learn more about indoctrination,discover how work the
collective intelligence and more.

Discover the truth in January

While most, actually all but one, DLC leaks before have turned out to be true, don't fully commit yourself to the above information. It could be completely true or completely false, we really have no idea. Personally, I think it looks quite promising, though I've always been one of the more optimistic Prime people here. It even sets up Protheans in MP, which is the only leak that hasn't proven true yet!

Did anyone notice this leak on omega calls him Illusion man. I'm not downgrading my trust on that leak to a C from a B. Leaked info should at least call the characters the right name.

The entire thing is spelled very poorly. To be fair though, their first language might not be English, or maybe they were using a phone with auto-correct.

[plfranke]

@Davik
Leviathan effortlessly assumed direct control of Shepard, and Harbinger is made of the minds of perhaps billions of Leviathans. I think it's safe to say he can assume direct control of anything at anytime. However, we don't know what the consequences of doing that are. However, this is one of the reasons I have said in the past that indoctrination is a poor mechanic to be put in this game. It is not detailed enough of what it is, how it's done or under what circumstances. Instead what we get is, this guy betrayed you because he was indoctrinated, but you can trust everyone else.

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

About Hackett, I wasn't trying to start a 'Hackett is indoctrinated' theory. I just pulled a lot of info from the codex about the Fifth Fleet and the Systems Alliance. There is a huge amount of information in there, realtive to the total information we have on the Alliance and Hackett, that at the very least casts doubt on his character and motives. It doesn't prove anything. I don't expect people to think "omg indoctrination". At the same time I raise an eyebrow when otherwise rational posters here say "hackett indoctrination idea is retarded" and then use a strawman about an old circular argument as their proof.

You didn't start that theory, it's been around almost as long as IT. A strawman? The burden of proof is on you, not me. You're making the claim. I'm not saying there needs to be a smoking gun, but I've yet to see a single argument for Hackett being indoctrinated that wasn't either simply untrue or someone's imagination running wild over what is almost certainly simple video game mechanics.

The fact of the matter is that every major chacter has undergone speculation for being indoctrinated. In some cases like Coates, it's a very compelling case. In some like Liara, it's shaky but I can see where they're coming from. In ones like Hackett, no decent case has been made for it. I skipped, oh, about a thousand pages so it's quite possible I missed something. But it'd be the first time in 6 months anyone has made a decent case against Hackett.

Are the first husks we see really trying to get away from us? They look like they're banging on the window to escape. They don't attack you until you start killing them. You have to kill them to proceed. Any chance they're human but we're seeing them as husk?

Possible. But more likely it's simple game mechanics. Vancouver is basically the tutorial level. They put the weakest enemies in a stationary position to show the player how to attack. It'd be pretty frustrating for a newbie if they die 5 times just trying to figure out how to aim and shoot or melee because the husks are actively aggressive.

London: Why do we see jet fighters fly over us after the turret bit? Have we ever seen this before? What are the jet fighters? Not Normandys right?

I tried to get a still frame of them once to see what they were. Was considering WNT and seeing if there was some hint they might've actually been a harvester. All I could tell is that there were 2 aircraft, but not their ship type.

starlitegirlx wrote...

Did anyone notice this leak on omega calls him Illusion man. I'm not downgrading my trust on that leak to a C from a B. Leaked info should at least call the characters the right name.

Pfft. Next you're going to say we shouldn't trust that DLC about EATY and Joker.

[ZerebusPrime]

One Leviathan's mind was enough to kill a mortal mind through overexposure. A concentrated version of that.... well..... have you ever seen the movie Scanners?

[BleedingUranium]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Jeff: (after Shepard is in the geth consensus). What if everything you're seeing is a simulation?

I didn't get to write the whole dialogue, but he basically says "how do you know you're really out?" and that it could still be a simulation.

Is that in the quote list, because that's pretty pertinent to the ending and IT. Actually, probably more so to us ITers. How do we really know if shepard gets out with destroy. The breath seem could be shepard thinking he/she is out after choosing destroy.

Technically it could be, but from a story telling perpective, no. No chance.

[Bill Casey]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

One Leviathan's mind was enough to kill a mortal mind through overexposure. A concentrated version of that.... well..... have you ever seen the movie Scanners?

I tried watching it...
It gave me a headache...

[Bill Casey]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Jeff: (after Shepard is in the geth consensus). What if everything you're seeing is a simulation?

I didn't get to write the whole dialogue, but he basically says "how do you know you're really out?" and that it could still be a simulation.

Joker: So you went into the geth consensus? Like, virtual reality?

Shepard: Yeah. It was strange, but I got out all right.

Joker: Did you? I mean, how would you know?

Shepard: How would I know what?

Joker: If you really got out! See, if the geth experience everything virtually, then you could only think you're in the real world. What if this--like, everything you're seeing now--is a simulation?

EDI: Shepard, I can confirm that this is the real world.

Joker: Oh, okay, well that'll solve that. Man, good thing we have an unshackled AI around to tell us what reality is.

EDI: Perhaps I missed some salient information.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:46 .

[Rifneno]

Edit: Nevermind, misread post

Modifié par Rifneno, 27 octobre 2012 - 03:46 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Magnetite, don't forget to factor in that Shepard is part machine by now.

[Rifneno]

Bill Casey wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

Jeff: (after Shepard is in the geth consensus). What if everything you're seeing is a simulation?

I didn't get to write the whole dialogue, but he basically says "how do you know you're really out?" and that it could still be a simulation.

Joker: So you went into the geth consensus? Like, virtual reality?

Shepard: Yeah. It was strange, but I got out all right.

Joker: Did you? I mean, how would you know?

Shepard: How would I know what?

Joker: If you really got out! See, if the geth experience everything virtually, then you could only think you're in the real world. What if this--like, everything you're seeing now--is a simulation?

EDI: Shepard, I can confirm that this is the real world.

Joker: Oh, okay, well that'll solve that. Man, good thing we have an unshackled AI around to tell us what reality is.

EDI: Perhaps I missed some salient information.

Hmm.  Okay, maybe everyone else already knew this but I just noticed it so I'll point it out for anyone else that didn't know this definition.  Salient was an odd word to use I thought.  Why salient, why not one of the more well known synonyms?  So I checked my dictionary.  "(Military usage) The part of the line of battle that projects closest to the enemy."  ...  Yeah, EDI definitely missed some salient information.

On an unrelated note, ugh, keep making the mistake of reading comments on Youtube.  I know not to read the rest of this forum but I keep forgetting not to read Mass Effect comments in other places.  They're like getting hit in the brain with a sledgehammer.  Just saw someone say in reflection to Sovereign's speech on Virmire that look how there's no malice or anything.  WHAT IN ALL OF THE ****S?  What part of Sovereign isn't pure concentrated horror?  It's threatening to wipe out all sentient life while bragging about the times it's already done it and how it set you and the others up for this apocalypse, all while looking down on such pathetic creatures as Shepard in disgust.  Even its voice is just...  if you were to meet Satan himself and that voice came out of his mouth, you'd just think "yeah that's about what I expected."  No malice?  I don't even... and WE'RE the crazy ones?  Jesus tapdancing Christ, what is wrong with people?