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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#40326
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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Lord Aesir wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
I think those things were put there to communicate how badly hurt and disorientated Shepard is at that point.  That's all.

GGs.  Nice having you here for the discussion.

3 dream sequences followed by a bizarre sequence with the same conditions.  Coincedence.  Stupid writers.

I must just be a true idiot, because when other games or films have a sequence that resembles dream sequences, I always assume they want us to think "Hmm... is this a dream?"

Guess I'm just a sucker.  In fact, come to think of it, how do we know any of the dream sequences are dreams?  Maybe Shepard really is on Earth, chasing a small boy through a forest, then quickly jumps back on the Normandy and goes to sleep.  If the writers had meant those sequences to be dreams, they would've written "DREAM SEQUENCE" at the top in flashing letters.  Damn my overactive imagination for assuming things that aren't there.

*Sigh* Is the sarcasm really necessary?

If the "bizarre sequence" were not so different from the others, I might think you were right.

As such, the only resemblance to the dreams is squiggly lines on the edge of the screen.  I can't think of anything else terribly relevant that bears similarity.  Why would those dreams have been indoctrination if Shepard was nowhere near a source of indoctrination when they happened anyway?  I know enough about video game development that they wouldn't shy from repurposeing the same effect rather than creating another.


As much as we in this thread hate synthsis, to my knowledge, none of us have gone into other threads and trolled them. You are being a troll. If you don't believe IT, fine. But don't come into this thread and troll. Stay out of it. But you can't. That you can't is rather telling. People who cannot let others believe what they choose without interferring do it out of a root lack of faith in what they defend. They need to turn others to their way of thinking or attack them because other possibility weaken their faith in their own on a subconscious level. People who are secure in their beliefs are never conconcerned with what other believe. They don't care what others believe and they don't attack it because it is irrelevant to them. Their faith is enough that other beliefs don't concern them in the least. People who lack that faith are scared of anything that counters their lines of thinking. They are close minded and need to push against everything that is not what they believe. Guess you don't have as much faith backing your beliefs as you would like us to think.

Edited to add: either that or they are zealots, the least rational of all.

Modifié par starlitegirlx, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:11 .


#40327
CmdrShep80

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So...I was thinking about the prime number reference someone made earlier about 2, 3, 5, 7

I noticed

ME 1 had 2 single player dlcs
Bring Down the Sky
Pinnacle Station

ME 2 had 7 single player dlcs

Zaeed the Price of Revenge
Firewalker Pack (hammerhead missions)
Normandy Crash Site
Kasumi's Stolen Memory
Overlord
Lair of the Shadow Broker
Arrival


ME 3 so far has 3 single player dlcs

From Ashes
Leviathan
Omega

Does this mean they'll stop at 5 or stop at Omega?  Citadel and that rumored guardian (or is that the same?)

So far we have 2, 3 , 7

May not be much but just found it curious

#40328
CmdrShep80

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paxxton wrote...

Colored hello?

EDIT: Doesn't work and I dunno how to use BBCodes. Posted Image


Oh you can go search BBCodes and you can find how to do them.  It's real easy once you learn the basics.  That's how the quotes are done.  See I add an exra quote

Quote



#40329
Davik Kang

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Davik what did you find? I'm not a big fan of CN but I would like to know what you found

Not a fan either.  He makes too many mistakes, ties together ideas that aren't related when deciding if they're useful pro-IT eveidence, and makes statements like "I found this all by myself" and "I dare you to come up with a response to this.  No-one has been able to."  Just gets annoying.  At times it gets bad for IT when the point he's making is demonstrably false.

Anyway.  About Synthesis.  I have this theory about it that Synthesis (if semi-Literal, i.e. not just indoctrination succeeding) is actually painting a picture like in the Matrix.  That everyone is basically harvested, and all minds are connected in the process, while the minds are fed to the new Reaper, so that it has full knowledge and wisdom of the processed race.  The Matrix-like idea comes from the end of ME2, where all the Collector victims are connected to pods feeding the proto-Reaper.

In the Synthesis ending, we don't really see anything upgraded or evolved.  We just see green eyes, and little cracks appearing in the surface of the images we see - little green circuitry similar to how the Matrix shows us that the Matrix-world is not real but just computer-code.

The important thing is the leaves.  The leaves in the Synth ending (near the crashed Normandy) have blue circuitry running through them.  Now I had no idea from the Kid's monologue that even non-sentient organic material would be affected like this.  But even if it is, then what left remains real?  Everything might as well be computer code.  

And that is I think why EDI narrates the ending.  Because as she sees the world though computer I/O streams, she initially does not recognise the difference.  I think Jacob and Brynn do recognise what's happened (as they still have a 'bad' ending slide in Synthesis) and this is because they represaent the people who worked on the Crucible.

                                 --------------------------------

Right.  Onto the clevernoob thing.  He said in passing, in his video, that someone found the fileneames for the data in the ending slides.  And for the Synthesis ending, the foliage files are titled "dream foliage".  Which really lends to the idea that the Synthesis ending is a dream.

#40330
paxxton

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Colored hello?

EDIT: Doesn't work and I dunno how to use BBCodes. Posted Image


Oh you can go search BBCodes and you can find how to do them.  It's real easy once you learn the basics.  That's how the quotes are done.  See I add an exra quote







Quote

COLOR CONTROL

EDIT: Worked!
EDIT2: It disappeared. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .


#40331
NebuchadnezzaRT

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Are we really still arguing with him?

Also off the top of my head masster blasster went from time to time to the other threads to "champion" IT. Usually we got a wave of trolls after that.

If this guy wants info he should ask instead of arguing. All our video-info (our most accessible and popular media) is categorized on page 1 by Byne. Text evidence is being compiled, I'm not sure how far along that is going.

#40332
401 Kill

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CmdrShep80 wrote...
So...I was thinking about the prime number reference someone made earlier about 2, 3, 5, 7
I noticed
ME 1 had 2 single player dlcs

ME 2 had 7 single player dlcs

ME 3 so far has 3 single player dlcs


Does this mean they'll stop at 5 or stop at Omega?  Citadel and that rumored guardian (or is that the same?)

So far we have 2, 3 , 7

May not be much but just found it curious

Maybe it does have significance, but not in that way. The thing is, where are those numbers shown in-game? I think that if this was found before any of the ME3 DLC's were released, this probobly would not have been interpreted this way. I think that it is a coincidence because we are still in the DLC cycle. 
Would EC be among those...?

#40333
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Colored hello?

EDIT: Doesn't work and I dunno how to use BBCodes. Posted Image


Oh you can go search BBCodes and you can find how to do them.  It's real easy once you learn the basics.  That's how the quotes are done.  See I add an exra quote

Quote


Just use the full option reply and then click on the T with the colored boxes next to after highlighting the text you want to change colors. Then choose the color you want. Can you do that or does the page not allow it for you?

[*color=rgb(255, 0, 0)*]text[*/color*] This is the bbc code, minus asterisks which I included for you too se the code. It has a numbers so it's probably going to be hard to get the color you want unless you know the numbers. Most code just has the color. This one has numbers probably because there are more variations of the color. I'm not sure why there are two independent zeros after it.

Modifié par starlitegirlx, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:20 .


#40334
shadoww6021

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Lord Aesir wrote...


...What part of "actual events" and "bad writing" don't you understand?


have you played any of the bioware games before, in all of them there is painstaking detail(dragon age II being the only exception)why bioware why!!!!))dragon age: origins, star wars the old republic and knights of the old republic. The reason so many people were angered by the ending having such "bad writing" was the fact that there was such a good quality of writing up until that point that it simply a shock to those who were just going through the motions and not noticing the details around them. The indoctrination theory is a theory hence the name, but you can't deny the details leading up to this. Indoctrination has been too much of a major  role in mass effect trilogy to simply be cast off as a minor possibility, it is definitely one of the most, if not the most compelling explanation for all the holes in the ending. Now you are being very closed minded about this. Most of us here are open minded enough to realize we may all be wrong and bioware is just stringing us along. But you are so stubborn that can't even accept the possibility of the indoctrination theory being true. You will find no friends or supporters here if you can't accept the possibilities.

Modifié par shadoww6021, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:22 .


#40335
NebuchadnezzaRT

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Davik Kang wrote...

NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Davik what did you find? I'm not a big fan of CN but I would like to know what you found

Not a fan either.  He makes too many mistakes, ties together ideas that aren't related when deciding if they're useful pro-IT eveidence, and makes statements like "I found this all by myself" and "I dare you to come up with a response to this.  No-one has been able to."  Just gets annoying.  At times it gets bad for IT when the point he's making is demonstrably false.

Anyway.  About Synthesis.  I have this theory about it that Synthesis (if semi-Literal, i.e. not just indoctrination succeeding) is actually painting a picture like in the Matrix.  That everyone is basically harvested, and all minds are connected in the process, while the minds are fed to the new Reaper, so that it has full knowledge and wisdom of the processed race.  The Matrix-like idea comes from the end of ME2, where all the Collector victims are connected to pods feeding the proto-Reaper.

In the Synthesis ending, we don't really see anything upgraded or evolved.  We just see green eyes, and little cracks appearing in the surface of the images we see - little green circuitry similar to how the Matrix shows us that the Matrix-world is not real but just computer-code.

The important thing is the leaves.  The leaves in the Synth ending (near the crashed Normandy) have blue circuitry running through them.  Now I had no idea from the Kid's monologue that even non-sentient organic material would be affected like this.  But even if it is, then what left remains real?  Everything might as well be computer code.  

And that is I think why EDI narrates the ending.  Because as she sees the world though computer I/O streams, she initially does not recognise the difference.  I think Jacob and Brynn do recognise what's happened (as they still have a 'bad' ending slide in Synthesis) and this is because they represaent the people who worked on the Crucible.

                                 --------------------------------

Right.  Onto the clevernoob thing.  He said in passing, in his video, that someone found the fileneames for the data in the ending slides.  And for the Synthesis ending, the foliage files are titled "dream foliage".  Which really lends to the idea that the Synthesis ending is a dream.


I like your ideas about Synthesis and they are similar to my own (mine just flow with IT a bit more, I may post them later if I have time). I remember that bit about the dream foliage and what they look like- granted it is weird (and fits with our ideas) but I have not seen the pictures of the foliage close enough to be able to tell if they actually have the circuitry on them. For all we know they could be the same plants found on the Citadel, which look familar.

#40336
paxxton

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starlitegirlx wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Colored hello?

EDIT: Doesn't work and I dunno how to use BBCodes. Posted Image


Oh you can go search BBCodes and you can find how to do them.  It's real easy once you learn the basics.  That's how the quotes are done.  See I add an exra quote




Quote


Just use the full option reply and then click on the T with the colored boxes next to after highlighting the text you want to change colors. Then choose the color you want. Can you do that or does the page not allow it for you?

[*color=rgb(255, 0, 0)*]text[*/color*] This is the bbc code, minus asterisks which I included for you too se the code. It has a numbers so it's probably going to be hard to get the color you want unless you know the numbers. Most code just has the color. This one has numbers probably because there are more variations of the color. I'm not sure why there are two independent zeros after it.

Thanks but the control in the extended form doesn't work for me and BBCode disappears if I edit my post.

There are 3 numbers in a color definition, each coresponding to one of 3 basic color components (red, green, blue). Each number can be ranging from 0 (no contribution) to 255 (full intensity), and together they blend to form the final color.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:26 .


#40337
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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Davik Kang wrote...

The important thing is the leaves.  The leaves in the Synth ending (near the crashed Normandy) have blue circuitry running through them.  Now I had no idea from the Kid's monologue that even non-sentient organic material would be affected like this.  But even if it is, then what left remains real?  Everything might as well be computer code.  

And that is I think why EDI narrates the ending.  Because as she sees the world though computer I/O streams, she initially does not recognise the difference.  I think Jacob and Brynn do recognise what's happened (as they still have a 'bad' ending slide in Synthesis) and this is because they represaent the people who worked on the Crucible.


What is their ending slide?

Modifié par starlitegirlx, 27 octobre 2012 - 04:26 .


#40338
Home run MF

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paxxton wrote...

Thanks but the control in the extended form doesn't work for me and BBCode disappears if I edit my post.

There are 3 numbers in a color definition, each coresponding to one of 3 basic color components (red, green, blue). Each number can be ranging from 0 (no contribution) to 255 (full intensity), and together they blend to form the final color.


Really?  :lol:

#40339
Davik Kang

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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
I like your ideas about Synthesis and they are similar to my own (mine just flow with IT a bit more, I may post them later if I have time). I remember that bit about the dream foliage and what they look like- granted it is weird (and fits with our ideas) but I have not seen the pictures of the foliage close enough to be able to tell if they actually have the circuitry on them. For all we know they could be the same plants found on the Citadel, which look familar.

Check the difference:

Synthesis ending

See from 37:50 .  Check out the varying levels of blueness and circuitry, at least up to 38:20.

Compare with others, e.g.

High EMS Destroy

Watch from 37:15.  Very much green leaves now.

I always use ladyxinsanity's endings btw because she records from the beam run.  They're very useful for looking at the ending as a whole.  She has recorded in high quality which helps a lot with stuff like this.

#40340
Davik Kang

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starlitegirlx wrote...
What is their ending slide?

Synthesis ending.

See 40:30.  Jacob and Brynn console a third person - maybe a scientist - whereas in other High EMS endings, Jacob is shown to be teaching a class.

#40341
Home run MF

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Davik Kang wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...
What is their ending slide?

Synthesis ending.

See 40:30.  Jacob and Brynn console a third person - maybe a scientist - whereas in other High EMS endings, Jacob is shown to be teaching a class.


There is a version of that slide without the Synthesis circuitry for the Control ending.

#40342
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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Davik Kang wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...
What is their ending slide?

Synthesis ending.

See 40:30.  Jacob and Brynn console a third person - maybe a scientist - whereas in other High EMS endings, Jacob is shown to be teaching a class.


I just found it. Funny how that one is the only one that doesn't look happy. It's got a very grimm tone.

I find it weird that EDI is the one that says how wonderful everything is. I know she would be the most logical one to do it, but it makes me wonder even more about the ending itself. That a machine AI says how perfect it is seems utterly biased. From a machines perspective, it would be. Like how Legion found the geth with reaper code and their advancements because of it beautiful. Those geth were pretty horrible killing machines. Nothing about them was beautiful. And now we have EDI telling us it's all pie in the sky while also saying she doesn't know exactly what the future holds. I would have loved to have heard it from an organic's mouth. Hackett would be an interesting choice. But I guess since he was behind destroy it made sense to have him only in destroy. But that an AI tells how wonderful synthesis is scares the hell out of me. 

#40343
paxxton

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Home run MF wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Thanks but the control in the extended form doesn't work for me and BBCode disappears if I edit my post.

There are 3 numbers in a color definition, each coresponding to one of 3 basic color components (red, green, blue). Each number can be ranging from 0 (no contribution) to 255 (full intensity), and together they blend to form the final color.


Really?  :lol:

TIM must've quietly taken Control before I got to the panel. Although, I did get the ending cinematic. Posted Image

#40344
Davik Kang

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Home run MF wrote...
There is a version of that slide without the Synthesis circuitry for the Control ending.

It's what you get with Low EMS, which is what I was saying.  There are 'good' and 'bad' versions of many slides, depending on your EMS score.  I think low EMS Destroy is so bad there aren't any slides, so many of the bad slides will be in Low EMS Control, but I still haven't found a Mid EMS Destroy ending (someone help pls!!)

The point is, Jacob and Brynn represent the Crucible project, and they're the only ones with a 'bad' slide in the Synth ending.  It backs up the point I was making about Synthesis being a dream (above).

#40345
Davik Kang

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starlitegirlx wrote...
I just found it. Funny how that one is the only one that doesn't look happy. It's got a very grimm tone.

I find it weird that EDI is the one that says how wonderful everything is. I know she would be the most logical one to do it, but it makes me wonder even more about the ending itself. That a machine AI says how perfect it is seems utterly biased. From a machines perspective, it would be. Like how Legion found the geth with reaper code and their advancements because of it beautiful. Those geth were pretty horrible killing machines. Nothing about them was beautiful. And now we have EDI telling us it's all pie in the sky while also saying she doesn't know exactly what the future holds. I would have loved to have heard it from an organic's mouth. Hackett would be an interesting choice. But I guess since he was behind destroy it made sense to have him only in destroy. But that an AI tells how wonderful synthesis is scares the hell out of me. 

It is definitely a very happy ending for EDI, but it's not clear how happy it is for everyone else.  The different direction of this ending almost wholly focuses on EDI: she hugs Jeff, she describes the present and the future, she hugs a Normandy member after Shepard is memorialised.

It's almost as if this is EDI's ending only.  But I might be reading into things too much (I'm looking at a lot of stuff so this is bound to happen).  Still, I think it's a reasonable suggestion.

#40346
Home run MF

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Davik Kang wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...
I just found it. Funny how that one is the only one that doesn't look happy. It's got a very grimm tone.

I find it weird that EDI is the one that says how wonderful everything is. I know she would be the most logical one to do it, but it makes me wonder even more about the ending itself. That a machine AI says how perfect it is seems utterly biased. From a machines perspective, it would be. Like how Legion found the geth with reaper code and their advancements because of it beautiful. Those geth were pretty horrible killing machines. Nothing about them was beautiful. And now we have EDI telling us it's all pie in the sky while also saying she doesn't know exactly what the future holds. I would have loved to have heard it from an organic's mouth. Hackett would be an interesting choice. But I guess since he was behind destroy it made sense to have him only in destroy. But that an AI tells how wonderful synthesis is scares the hell out of me. 

It is definitely a very happy ending for EDI, but it's not clear how happy it is for everyone else.  The different direction of this ending almost wholly focuses on EDI: she hugs Jeff, she describes the present and the future, she hugs a Normandy member after Shepard is memorialised.

It's almost as if this is EDI's ending only.  But I might be reading into things too much (I'm looking at a lot of stuff so this is bound to happen).  Still, I think it's a reasonable suggestion.


Have you read the Synthesis supporters threads? The slides show you what you wanna see.

Synthesis supporters didn't choose Destroy because of the Geth and EDI, they get epilogue with EDI.
Controllers didn't wanna sacriface anyone or they wanted an army, that's what they see.
Destroyers wanted Reapers dead and everything like it was before, they get everything rebuilt and no Reapers.

#40347
AresKeith

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Actually both Control and Synthesis slides seems to have a grim tone

#40348
spotlessvoid

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EDI was perfect the way she was. Found love, loyalty, compassion....she didn't need to be made into a "real girl"

#40349
Davik Kang

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Home run MF wrote...
Have you read the Synthesis supporters threads? The slides show you what you wanna see.

Synthesis supporters didn't choose Destroy because of the Geth and EDI, they get epilogue with EDI.
Controllers didn't wanna sacriface anyone or they wanted an army, that's what they see.
Destroyers wanted Reapers dead and everything like it was before, they get everything rebuilt and no Reapers.

While your point is a good one, I'm not sure how it's relevant to what I'm saying - sorry if I've misunderstood.

The slides are improved depending on your EMS rating.  You 'see what you want to see' relative to how big your army was.  Why do we still get a bad Jacob slide in Synthesis?  The point I made is one possible explanation.

It's a separate issue, but I think if the endings are to be taken at all literally, they are from best to worst

High EMS Destroy
Mid EMS Destroy (need a YouTube vid to confirm this!)
High EMS Control
Low EMS Control
Low EMS Destroy
Synthesis/Refuse

#40350
plfranke

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spotlessvoid wrote...

EDI was perfect the way she was. Found love, loyalty, compassion....she didn't need to be made into a "real girl"

Perfect? I wouldn't go that far... but I will agree that synthesis certainly didn't make her character any better than what it was.