Ce sujet est ferméThe BG music seems to enhance this tone in each case.AresKeith wrote...
Actually both Control and Synthesis slides seems to have a grim tone
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
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, juil. 30 2012 07:09
#40351
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:11
Davik Kang
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#40352
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:11
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Davik Kang wrote...
It is definitely a very happy ending for EDI, but it's not clear how happy it is for everyone else. The different direction of this ending almost wholly focuses on EDI: she hugs Jeff, she describes the present and the future, she hugs a Normandy member after Shepard is memorialised.starlitegirlx wrote...
I just found it. Funny how that one is the only one that doesn't look happy. It's got a very grimm tone.
I find it weird that EDI is the one that says how wonderful everything is. I know she would be the most logical one to do it, but it makes me wonder even more about the ending itself. That a machine AI says how perfect it is seems utterly biased. From a machines perspective, it would be. Like how Legion found the geth with reaper code and their advancements because of it beautiful. Those geth were pretty horrible killing machines. Nothing about them was beautiful. And now we have EDI telling us it's all pie in the sky while also saying she doesn't know exactly what the future holds. I would have loved to have heard it from an organic's mouth. Hackett would be an interesting choice. But I guess since he was behind destroy it made sense to have him only in destroy. But that an AI tells how wonderful synthesis is scares the hell out of me.
It's almost as if this is EDI's ending only. But I might be reading into things too much (I'm looking at a lot of stuff so this is bound to happen). Still, I think it's a reasonable suggestion.
No, that's what I'm getting at. It's not relevant to organics and their take on what just happened. Their take doesn't matter because they are all drones and indoctinated. Remember Saren? He became synthesis so he wouldn't resist or be conflicted. His doubt was gone. He did it to give his will to Sovereign. He appeared to be in immense pain when he was not aligned with sovereign just before he shoots himself. His mind was no longer his own. He was subservient. So really, the only one who could give a description might be EDI because she had reaper code all along and was able to function. So it is her biased view. She didn't want that to be the outcome, but from her point of view it is okay. No words from anyone that hasn't been altered. It's EDI and the Reapers ending but you can't have a reaper or harbinger tell it. So Edi does. Yet, she cannot speak for organics. So we have no commentary on it from organics. We've just got the most biased entity telling us how it's perfect. I like Edi, but she has not perspective on what it is like for a human to become part synthetic. That is pretty telling if you ask me.
Also, the only organic that speaks in an ending is Hackett in destroy. Shepard speaks as a reaper but with this God like caretaker quality, but Shepard in control is no longer organic. Edi, an AI speaks for organics in synthesis. I think that no organic speaks for organics in control and synthesis is telling. Shepard doesn't count because shepard is no longer organic and is in some other form - reaper form actually, it would seem. So we have a reaper telling us how control is grand. We have a synthetic telling us how synthesis is grand. And then we have an organic telling us how we survived destoy (not saying that it is 'grand' - also telling), from a very realistic viewpoint that holds optimism with a hint of caution that they still have to work together and not forget.
#40353
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:12
Home run MF
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AresKeith wrote...
Actually both Control and Synthesis slides seems to have a grim tone
And they seem to stroke Shepard's ego a little too much for my taste.
#40354
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:14
spotlessvoid
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plfranke wrote...
Perfect? I wouldn't go that far... but I will agree that synthesis certainly didn't make her character any better than what it was.spotlessvoid wrote...
EDI was perfect the way she was. Found love, loyalty, compassion....she didn't need to be made into a "real girl"
Yeah poor word choice. What I meant was that she was doing fine on her own path and didn't need to be forced into anything
#40355
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:15
AresKeith
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Home run MF wrote...
AresKeith wrote...
Actually both Control and Synthesis slides seems to have a grim tone
And they seem to stroke Shepard's ego a little too much for my taste.
In Control it kinda looks like the Starbrat fused with Shepard instead of actually replacing him, hence the supposed "smirk"
#40356
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:17
Dwailing
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I'm pretty sure there IS a mid EMS Destroy where buildings are destroyed but people don't die. There's also a high EMS Destroy where Shepard dies rather than lives, if memory serves.
#40357
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:19
Davik Kang
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It's a good point - if the ending is only seen through the POV of the person narrating it, it does give us some ideas for how to interpret the various endings. It's also quite clever, because it doesn't blatantly paint any of the endings as bad, but the implications of each are there for us to consider.starlitegirlx wrote...
Also, the only organic that speaks in an ending is Hackett in destroy. Shepard speaks as a reaper but with this God like caretaker quality, but Shepard in control is no longer organic. Edi, an AI speaks for organics in synthesis. I think that no organic speaks for organics in control and synthesis is telling. Shepard doesn't count because shepard is no longer organic and is in some other form - reaper form actually, it would seem. So we have a reaper telling us how control is grand. We have a synthetic telling us how synthesis is grand. And then we have an organic telling us how we survived destoy (not saying that it is 'grand' - also telling), from a very realistic viewpoint that holds optimism with a hint of caution that they still have to work together and not forget.
#40358
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:19
AresKeith
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Dwailing wrote...
I'm pretty sure there IS a mid EMS Destroy where buildings are destroyed but people don't die. There's also a high EMS Destroy where Shepard dies rather than lives, if memory serves.
I think you still need to have EMS higher than the Synthesis requirement to get the breath scene
#40359
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:21
Davik Kang
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Yeah I think you're right but I can't find an ending video dedicated to Mid EMS only. But the old comparison videos hadDwailing wrote...
I'm pretty sure there IS a mid EMS Destroy where buildings are destroyed but people don't die. There's also a high EMS Destroy where Shepard dies rather than lives, if memory serves.
Destroy Good / Bad / Vaporise
Control Good / Bad
Synthesis
as comparisons, so I'm fairly sure the post-EC slides will have a Mid EMS version. (It would correlate to Destroy Bad - Vaporise is low EMS obviously)
Modifié par Davik Kang, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:22 .
#40360
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:24
Davik Kang
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Yep. Afaik, EMS gives you the following, in this order :AresKeith wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
I'm pretty sure there IS a mid EMS Destroy where buildings are destroyed but people don't die. There's also a high EMS Destroy where Shepard dies rather than lives, if memory serves.
I think you still need to have EMS higher than the Synthesis requirement to get the breath scene
One choice (dependent on ME2 decision)
Two choices (Control Destroy)
Better Control and Destroy options
Three choices (Synthesis)
Best Destroy option
Breath scene
(Not including the Refuse option)
#40361
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:25
Andromidius
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spotlessvoid wrote...
plfranke wrote...
Perfect? I wouldn't go that far... but I will agree that synthesis certainly didn't make her character any better than what it was.spotlessvoid wrote...
EDI was perfect the way she was. Found love, loyalty, compassion....she didn't need to be made into a "real girl"
Yeah poor word choice. What I meant was that she was doing fine on her own path and didn't need to be forced into anything
Agreed. All character development is wiped clean by Synthesis. She's on the verge of developing true conscienceness, rather then a programmed intelligence. She's making decisions, breaking programming restrictions, and choosing to obey the same morals and laws as her crew and friends.
As an aside, in Overlord Shepard is pulled into a virtual reality where he/she needs to escape. And this is from a VI/human hybrid, and not a Reaper. I imagine Reapers are much more capable.
So why is it so hard to beleive everything is a hallucination or simulation created by the Reapers?
And why isn't it a concidence that VI-infected Shepard has glowing green eyes?
/whistles innocently
#40362
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Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:26
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Davik Kang wrote...
It's a good point - if the ending is only seen through the POV of the person narrating it, it does give us some ideas for how to interpret the various endings. It's also quite clever, because it doesn't blatantly paint any of the endings as bad, but the implications of each are there for us to consider.starlitegirlx wrote...
Also, the only organic that speaks in an ending is Hackett in destroy. Shepard speaks as a reaper but with this God like caretaker quality, but Shepard in control is no longer organic. Edi, an AI speaks for organics in synthesis. I think that no organic speaks for organics in control and synthesis is telling. Shepard doesn't count because shepard is no longer organic and is in some other form - reaper form actually, it would seem. So we have a reaper telling us how control is grand. We have a synthetic telling us how synthesis is grand. And then we have an organic telling us how we survived destoy (not saying that it is 'grand' - also telling), from a very realistic viewpoint that holds optimism with a hint of caution that they still have to work together and not forget.
Implications being that we get a bias epilogue that only speaks to its own perspective and says nothing of any other species. Control is shepard as a reaper speaking for the reapers. They get Shepard who they wanted from ME2 and now reaper shepard speaks for them. EDI speaks for synthesis, though that is weird because edi is not part organic. Now that I think of it, EDI really isn't an appropriate one to speak. There is nothing organic about her. I wonder if that's foreshadowing that eventually all traces of organics will be gone. While they look to still be part organic, we don't know how it will evolve.
#40363
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:28
Davik Kang
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Hence the abomination Matrix-esque ending I describedstarlitegirlx wrote...
Implications being that we get a bias epilogue that only speaks to its own perspective and says nothing of any other species. Control is shepard as a reaper speaking for the reapers. They get Shepard who they wanted from ME2 and now reaper shepard speaks for them. EDI speaks for synthesis, though that is weird because edi is not part organic. Now that I think of it, EDI really isn't an appropriate one to speak. There is nothing organic about her. I wonder if that's foreshadowing that eventually all traces of organics will be gone. While they look to still be part organic, we don't know how it will evolve.
. Everyone else is really in pods connected to EDI and the Reapers via tubes. I promise 
#40364
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:29
BatmanTurian
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From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .
#40365
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:29
Home run MF
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Davik Kang wrote...
While your point is a good one, I'm not sure how it's relevant to what I'm saying - sorry if I've misunderstood.
The slides are improved depending on your EMS rating. You 'see what you want to see' relative to how big your army was. Why do we still get a bad Jacob slide in Synthesis? The point I made is one possible explanation.
It's a separate issue, but I think if the endings are to be taken at all literally, they are from best to worst
High EMS Destroy
Mid EMS Destroy (need a YouTube vid to confirm this!)
High EMS Control
Low EMS Control
Low EMS Destroy
Synthesis/Refuse
I was referring to the EDI centric Synthesis ending observation you made. If someone picked that ending because of her and the Geth, it makes sense for her to be the one narrating it.
But I don't see the Jacob in London as a bad slide for Synthesis. If everyone is connected and shares knowledge as EDI explains what is he supposed to teach?
#40366
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:30
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BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Does this stem from the troll we had or something else?
#40367
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:34
AresKeith
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Home run MF wrote...
Davik Kang wrote...
While your point is a good one, I'm not sure how it's relevant to what I'm saying - sorry if I've misunderstood.
The slides are improved depending on your EMS rating. You 'see what you want to see' relative to how big your army was. Why do we still get a bad Jacob slide in Synthesis? The point I made is one possible explanation.
It's a separate issue, but I think if the endings are to be taken at all literally, they are from best to worst
High EMS Destroy
Mid EMS Destroy (need a YouTube vid to confirm this!)
High EMS Control
Low EMS Control
Low EMS Destroy
Synthesis/Refuse
I was referring to the EDI centric Synthesis ending observation you made. If someone picked that ending because of her and the Geth, it makes sense for her to be the one narrating it.
But I don't see the Jacob in London as a bad slide for Synthesis. If everyone is connected and shares knowledge as EDI explains what is he supposed to teach?
Thats what makes the Synthesis slides really weird
#40368
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:37
Ithurael
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BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Indoctrination Theory or not, the Evac scene was just silly
Then there was the 'Born in London"
#40369
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:38
AresKeith
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BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Regardless of the ending and IT, there were other areas in ME3 that were poorly written
#40370
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:38
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Home run MF wrote...
Davik Kang wrote...
While your point is a good one, I'm not sure how it's relevant to what I'm saying - sorry if I've misunderstood.
The slides are improved depending on your EMS rating. You 'see what you want to see' relative to how big your army was. Why do we still get a bad Jacob slide in Synthesis? The point I made is one possible explanation.
It's a separate issue, but I think if the endings are to be taken at all literally, they are from best to worst
High EMS Destroy
Mid EMS Destroy (need a YouTube vid to confirm this!)
High EMS Control
Low EMS Control
Low EMS Destroy
Synthesis/Refuse
I was referring to the EDI centric Synthesis ending observation you made. If someone picked that ending because of her and the Geth, it makes sense for her to be the one narrating it.
But I don't see the Jacob in London as a bad slide for Synthesis. If everyone is connected and shares knowledge as EDI explains what is he supposed to teach?
True but if it's all pie in the sky, why do he and brynn appear to be consoling someone. So while he isn't needed to teach, we could see him and brynn doing something else, anything else. But they are consoling someone. Odd choice. Also, brynn was pregnant. I don't remember seeing any babies in synthesis like in destroy. So that means no children. Immortal machines running the galaxy, machines that are controlled by the reapers because the geth were controlled by the reapers and the only time they weren't was when the reaper was killed and the reaper code was purged, but you can bet synthesis has lots of reaper code and is being controlled by the reapers.
#40371
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:40
Davik Kang
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So he and the scientists are sad becuase they're now unemployed?Home run MF wrote...
But I don't see the Jacob in London as a bad slide for Synthesis. If everyone is connected and shares knowledge as EDI explains what is he supposed to teach?
Jokes aside, it does make you wonder what they'd be sad about, at least.
#40372
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:47
Rankincountry
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Davik Kang wrote...
So he and the scientists are sad becuase they're now unemployed?Home run MF wrote...
But I don't see the Jacob in London as a bad slide for Synthesis. If everyone is connected and shares knowledge as EDI explains what is he supposed to teach?
Jokes aside, it does make you wonder what they'd be sad about, at least.
Quite. Shepard rescued them and their colleagues after they ran from Cerberus, they all went to work on the Crucible so would have been away from the front lines and Jacob and Brynn had a baby on the way. We see a Krogan baby in the synthesis slides so we can assume that reproduction is unaffected. So as far as I can see they had no reason to be less happy than anyone else in the circumstances, and several good reasons to be optimistic.
#40373
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:50
BatmanTurian
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starlitegirlx wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Does this stem from the troll we had or something else?
More trolls than just Lord A**hole have claimed bad writing as their argument.
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:53 .
#40374
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:51
BatmanTurian
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Ithurael wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Indoctrination Theory or not, the Evac scene was just silly
Then there was the 'Born in London"
IT explains those, since Priority Earth is a little off at best.
#40375
Posté 27 octobre 2012 - 05:52
BatmanTurian
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AresKeith wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
From now on, we have to put our foot down and just say bad writing is not an argument. Period.
The idea of bad writing is subjective and clearly not present in the rest of the series.
Regardless of the ending and IT, there were other areas in ME3 that were poorly written
Again, subjective.
