80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, those like you simply attack pro-synthesis threads and say how wrong we are.
It was answered and Im allowed to ask questions.
Laughing at others personal beliefs is just wrong.
Catalyst was still following his directive when he "preserved" them. You shouldnt call someone retarded because they see things differenty.

[BleedingUranium]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Oh right I forgot another outright lie and self conflicting line from Catalyst: "There will still be losses, but no more than what has allready been lost."

This line appears in regards to Destroy and is as said self confliciting and a lie. If taken at face value the Geth and EDI will die, they will be losses despite the Catalyst just saying that there will be no more losses than what has allready been lost.

Also I must admit I find it curious who calls himself Darth Revan, the character involved in what i have seen described as the "I am your father" twist of gaming, completely dismisses the idea that the same company might do a new twist ending.

Also Bioware did do a mind control, paradise vision, kind of ending before in Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark where the encounter with a Elder Brain triggers a dream state in which the main character is told that they won and invited to the victory feast. Accept and the credits roll, deny and deny the reality of things and you get to fight back.

He could be referring to organiocs in that statement, since it's been established prior that synthetics will be destroyed so why state it twice.

I never stated that the Indoctrination Hypothesis is false. It's as valid as any other ending interpretation. All I've stated is I don't support it. If IH does turn out to be true, I will accept it and personally congradulate those who supported it.

PS: I agree that the protagonist being Darth Revan is the biggest plot twist in gaming history, much as Darth Vader's relationship to Luke was for cinema. When I first saw that scene, I literally dropped my controller (only time a game has ever caused me to).

You're the kind of non-ITer I am don't mind having here. The people I can't stand (on either side) are the zealots, and you are certainly not one (though, to be fair, there are less IT zealots percentage wise). Discussion of different opinions like this is good for everyone involved. Not too unlike my Shepard and Thane, actually

[BleedingUranium]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

No, those like you simply attack pro-synthesis threads and say how wrong we are.
It was answered and Im allowed to ask questions.
Laughing at others personal beliefs is just wrong.
Catalyst was still following his directive when he "preserved" them. You shouldnt call someone retarded because they see things differenty.

This is true. Doesn't mean he's shackled, but he was doing exactly what he was assigned to do. The Leviathans were just so arrogant that they thought of themselves as (basically) gods, seperate from the universe. Nothing could ever happen to them

[Andromidius]

Fine, here's a logical question for you: Why would Bioware spend months creating the Extended Cut, which they could of spent making DLC they can charge for, in order to give us free content that adds epilogues to the endings if they're only "illusions" and not add your so-called "real" ending?

To shut people up. The complaints were very loud and very rawdy. The EC was pushed forwards to shut people up about sueing Bioware.

Funny thing is, the EC was mostly tinsel. The same problems still exist, and some problems were made even more apparent. And yet people gobbled it up and seem to be happy - thus proving the fanbase isn't as intelligent as it likes to think it is.

And honestly, why are Synthesis supporters suprised that people dislike their views and argument tactics? You think mass genocide is perfectly acceptable so long as you get pretty lights as someone telling you everything is perfect. Its a reprehensible standpoint, and should be ridiculed at every turn.

[ElSuperGecko]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
5) The Catalyst is following his programming (as stated by Leviathan), which means he's shacked, which means he can't lie (as stated by EDI), and thus is telling you the truth throughout my exchange with him 

This is horrific reasoning.  Indoctrination Theory or literalist, whether you being it's being deceitful, manipulative, truthful or shackled into following it's programming, there is no reason to trust the Catalyst.

The Catalyst may well be telling the truth as dictated by it's own logic.  It may believe everything it tells you to be fact.  But just because it's an AI doesn't mean it's incapable of error.  It's already proven that it's capable of being very, very wrong.

Look at it's original "solution" of the Reaper harvest.  It is the greatest atrocity the galaxy has ever known, yet the Catalyst shows no remorse or regret, nothing but blind faith in it's own calculations and logic.  It is incapable of understanding organic thought processes, or feeling organic emotion.  It cannot comprehend why we oppose it, why we resist, because for all it's millions of years of existance, it has no experience of what it means to be alive.

And now it offers us a new "perfect" solution of Synthesis.  Another idea plucked from the depths of it's emotionless, unfeeling logic.  Never forget that Synthesis is not your solution.  No Mass Effect player, upon entering the decision chamber for the first time spoiler-free, had the idea of Synthesis in their mind.  It's not a solution presented by any of your friends, crew, squadmates or advisors.  It is the Catalyst's choice.  The Catalyst's suggestion.  The Catalyst's solution to a problem which may not even exist outside of it's own logic and calculations.  We know first-hand how horrifying the Catalyst's solutions are, so the warning signs are there.

[Rifneno]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

No, those like you simply attack pro-synthesis threads and say how wrong we are.
It was answered and Im allowed to ask questions.
Laughing at others personal beliefs is just wrong.
Catalyst was still following his directive when he "preserved" them. You shouldnt call someone retarded because they see things differenty.

- I have never gone to a pro-synthesis thread. Lie more. This is fun.
- It's a counterargument designed as a question. The prevailing foolishness among literalists is that they threw together some medicore slideshow with Shepard making remarks that sound distrubingly similar to Sovereign and Harbinger, so obviously the endings must be legit. Because after all, why would they make 10 minutes of epilogue slides to appease fans who were so outraged that news agencies like BBC and CNN actually covered the fallout? Why indeed! Obviously that trumps the pages upon pages of evidence on our favor. Because it doesn't matter how much evidence we present, literalists think all they need is one debatable point to completely debunk the whole thing.
- I'll treat others beliefs with respect when they're respectable. Promoting forgiveness and redemption for creatures that have murdered quadrillions of people is about as laughable as whatever nonsense Tom Cruise is peddling nowadays.
- Jesus. Where to even begin with this? First of all, you obviously don't know what AI shackles are. Second of all, work on your reading comprehension. "That idea is retarded." ≠ "You are retarded."

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

     I really can't quote that all the Reapers aren't at Earth, but there is a Reaper presense large enough at every relay that it doesn't allow access and the EC shows that there are Reapers fighting on every homeworld so there is only a fraction, albeit a bigger fraction than at other clusters. Protect it at all cost can also mean that the Reapers there will fight to the last one to protect the Citadel. As for the numbers, one Dreadnaught per cycle, which happen every 50,000 years and the Reapers have been around for at least a billion according to the dating of the Leviathan of Dis, so that adds up to around 20,000 Dreadnaughts assuming not all are around. all the opther races per cycle are turned into Destroyers as stated in the codex so theres at least tens of thousands of them. The reason they don't hit everything at once is simply they are busy harvesting planets which is the priority since they believe we can't stop them. Also, it wouledn't be much of a game if the Reapers attacked everything at once, so they were made tactically conservative for plot.

     If that is Shepard "waking up", Shepard is in no condition to lead since they did just get hit with a toned down Reaper laser from Harbinger. This leaves leading the attack up to Anderson for Hammer and Hackett for Sword/Shield.

    Like I said, the Geth went to the Reapers to help with the Quarians, and saw sacrificing their independence as "an Acceptable trade" according to Legion. Also, the quote is from the codex involving Indoctrination.

     The Queen was able to control them, but knowledge only passed between queens. Also, to quote Wrex: "Good thing you keeps it's location hidden better than the fact it exists."

     As for Harvesters, you got me there. Or maybe they're more advanced than we thought...

Wrong again on the Reaper count, there is not Reapers at every relay because if there was we could not have gathered the fleet which heads to Earth. Remember any kind of travel around the Mass Effect universe when crossing large distances requires a Mass Realy so if the Reapers had indeed placed themselves on every relay the war would be over as every system would be isolated. But as we can gather the fleet taht is clearly not the case.

Also we dont know if every cycle resulted in the creation of a Sovereign class Reaper, EDI actually theorize in ME2 that that may not be the case. She bases this on the large number of Collectors, theorizing the Reapers might have found the Protheans unsuitable for ascension and instead repurposed them as collectors.

In the same way Harbinge mentions during the battle with the Proto Reaper (through control of a subordinate) how every species beyond Humans in this cycle has either has their potential wasted or is simply not good enough for the ascension (to clarify he mentions each species if you have a squadmember of that species facing the Proto Reaper such as the Korgan quote running if you have Grunt with you). By all logic this could easily have happened several times resulting in not every cycle giving birth to a new Sovereign class Reaper.

The mere fact that the Reapers see some life as unworthy for ascension also goes against the Catalyst supposed programming as according to it was tasked with finding a way to preserve ALL life, not just what it judged worthy. Though to be fair a possible explanation is that unworthy life is simply compiled in one or more Destroyer class Reapers, but that is only a theory.

Also we dont know Shepards condition when waking up and he would not need to do anything but speak into a microphone after beeing extracted. In fact if we look at the scene which plays out form a litteral perspective Shepard is no more hurt than that he can walk, converse with Anderson and later even go into full blown running when leaping into the Synthesis beam.

And regarding the Rachni Queen, the knowledge of each Queen is indeed passed down from Queen to Queen, but they do communicate with their children using a form of organic QEC as said by Ann Bryson in this quote: "At short range the Queen uses pheromones to give orders. At long range she uses an organic kind of quantum entanglement communicator."

Harvesters..well no real way to know, though the Harvesters we have encountered in ME2 only seemed to be at basic intelligence, using those Fire bettle things as drop shock troops and hanging back while they do the dirty work.

Also do you really think the EC, which is compiled of a few new lines of dialouge, a few scenes (the very stupid Normandy pickup scene and the Liara data cache scene) and a slide show of still pictures took 3 months to make? They were working on Leviathan even as they prepared EC, I am quite sure of that.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 octobre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

The mere fact that the Reapers see some life as unworthy for ascension also goes against the Catalyst supposed programming as according to it was tasked with finding a way to preserve ALL life, not just what it judged worthy. Though to be fair a possible explanation is that unworthy life is simply compiled in one or more Destroyer class Reapers, but that is only a theory.

A theory that doesn't hold much water either when you consider that they gave the geth the power to wipe out the quarians - which it does without Shepard's intervention.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
5) The Catalyst is following his programming (as stated by Leviathan), which means he's shacked, which means he can't lie (as stated by EDI), and thus is telling you the truth throughout my exchange with him 

This is horrific reasoning.  Indoctrination Theory or literalist, whether you being it's being deceitful, manipulative, truthful or shackled into following it's programming, there is no reason to trust the Catalyst.

The Catalyst may well be telling the truth as dictated by it's own logic.  It may believe everything it tells you to be fact.  But just because it's an AI doesn't mean it's incapable of error.  It's already proven that it's capable of being very, very wrong.

Look at it's original "solution" of the Reaper harvest.  It is the greatest atrocity the galaxy has ever known, yet the Catalyst shows no remorse or regret, nothing but blind faith in it's own calculations and logic.  It is incapable of understanding organic thought processes, or feeling organic emotion.  It cannot comprehend why we oppose it, why we resist, because for all it's millions of years of existance, it has no experience of what it means to be alive.

And now it offers us a new "perfect" solution of Synthesis.  Another idea plucked from the depths of it's emotionless, unfeeling logic.  Never forget that Synthesis is not your solution.  No Mass Effect player, upon entering the decision chamber for the first time spoiler-free, had the idea of Synthesis in their mind.  It's not a solution presented by any of your friends, crew, squadmates or advisors.  It is the Catalyst's choice.  The Catalyst's suggestion.  The Catalyst's solution to a problem which may not even exist outside of it's own logic and calculations.  We know first-hand how horrifying the Catalyst's solutions are, so the warning signs are there.

Also I just rewatched the Leviathan conversation, no mention of the AI they created beeing shackled. Havent checked if Catalyst himself says he is, but that would be akin to saying, "I dont lie, you can trust me," to a complete stranger.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 octobre 2012 - 12:00 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

The mere fact that the Reapers see some life as unworthy for ascension also goes against the Catalyst supposed programming as according to it was tasked with finding a way to preserve ALL life, not just what it judged worthy. Though to be fair a possible explanation is that unworthy life is simply compiled in one or more Destroyer class Reapers, but that is only a theory.

A theory that doesn't hold much water either when you consider that they gave the geth the power to wipe out the quarians - which it does without Shepard's intervention.

Dont forget when the Reapers through the Collectors conspired with the Vorcha and released a Alien killing plague on Omega. Way to go with preserving life:pinched:

Or when Sovereign forced the Rahcni to war, ruining first the Rahcni and then the Krogan...though to be fair as we now know the Rachni were around in the Prothean cycle they may have preserved them there.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 octobre 2012 - 12:01 .

[shadoww6021]

just started a little experiment. i got my older brother into playing ME1 and he's going to play through all of them. the thing about him is that he is a shoot first ask questions later FPS player. he's not the type to look for details, so it'll be interesting how he chooses the ending.

[Rifneno]

I'm bored... Remember when we were picking on Jacob yesterday? I miss that...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
5) The Catalyst is following his programming (as stated by Leviathan), which means he's shacked, which means he can't lie (as stated by EDI), and thus is telling you the truth throughout my exchange with him 

This is horrific reasoning.  Indoctrination Theory or literalist, whether you being it's being deceitful, manipulative, truthful or shackled into following it's programming, there is no reason to trust the Catalyst.

The Catalyst may well be telling the truth as dictated by it's own logic.  It may believe everything it tells you to be fact.  But just because it's an AI doesn't mean it's incapable of error.  It's already proven that it's capable of being very, very wrong.

Look at it's original "solution" of the Reaper harvest.  It is the greatest atrocity the galaxy has ever known, yet the Catalyst shows no remorse or regret, nothing but blind faith in it's own calculations and logic.  It is incapable of understanding organic thought processes, or feeling organic emotion.  It cannot comprehend why we oppose it, why we resist, because for all it's millions of years of existance, it has no experience of what it means to be alive.

And now it offers us a new "perfect" solution of Synthesis.  Another idea plucked from the depths of it's emotionless, unfeeling logic.  Never forget that Synthesis is not your solution.  No Mass Effect player, upon entering the decision chamber for the first time spoiler-free, had the idea of Synthesis in their mind.  It's not a solution presented by any of your friends, crew, squadmates or advisors.  It is the Catalyst's choice.  The Catalyst's suggestion.  The Catalyst's solution to a problem which may not even exist outside of it's own logic and calculations.  We know first-hand how horrifying the Catalyst's solutions are, so the warning signs are there.

I don't agree with the harvest of species, hence I don't choose refuse. I know an AI is fallible, but he believes he's right which is what I'm trying to say. The Catalyst views all life as data (seen this somewhere before but can't place it). Also, Synthesis was in my mind when I entered the decision chamber due to our old friend Saren Arterius and I had just completed ME1 & 2 before playing 3.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Rifneno wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

No, those like you simply attack pro-synthesis threads and say how wrong we are.
It was answered and Im allowed to ask questions.
Laughing at others personal beliefs is just wrong.
Catalyst was still following his directive when he "preserved" them. You shouldnt call someone retarded because they see things differenty.

- I have never gone to a pro-synthesis thread. Lie more. This is fun.
- It's a counterargument designed as a question. The prevailing foolishness among literalists is that they threw together some medicore slideshow with Shepard making remarks that sound distrubingly similar to Sovereign and Harbinger, so obviously the endings must be legit. Because after all, why would they make 10 minutes of epilogue slides to appease fans who were so outraged that news agencies like BBC and CNN actually covered the fallout? Why indeed! Obviously that trumps the pages upon pages of evidence on our favor. Because it doesn't matter how much evidence we present, literalists think all they need is one debatable point to completely debunk the whole thing.
- I'll treat others beliefs with respect when they're respectable. Promoting forgiveness and redemption for creatures that have murdered quadrillions of people is about as laughable as whatever nonsense Tom Cruise is peddling nowadays.
- Jesus. Where to even begin with this? First of all, you obviously don't know what AI shackles are. Second of all, work on your reading comprehension. "That idea is retarded." ≠ "You are retarded."

I said "like you", as in hostile, which you are being right now. Also, Shepard doesn't speak at the end of Synthesis and again, I've nev er stated that IH is wrong, just I disagree with it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BleedingUranium wrote...
You're the kind of non-ITer I am don't mind having here. The people I can't stand (on either side) are the zealots, and you are certainly not one (though, to be fair, there are less IT zealots percentage wise). Discussion of different opinions like this is good for everyone involved. Not too unlike my Shepard and Thane, actually

There are more literalist zealots, but that's because there are four literal endings compared to one-two IHs. Also, thanks for being civil.

[Rifneno]

God I wish they'd give us a functional ignore user setting... <sigh>

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Wrong again on the Reaper count, there is not Reapers at every relay because if there was we could not have gathered the fleet which heads to Earth. Remember any kind of travel around the Mass Effect universe when crossing large distances requires a Mass Realy so if the Reapers had indeed placed themselves on every relay the war would be over as every system would be isolated. But as we can gather the fleet taht is clearly not the case.

Also we dont know if every cycle resulted in the creation of a Sovereign class Reaper, EDI actually theorize in ME2 that that may not be the case. She bases this on the large number of Collectors, theorizing the Reapers might have found the Protheans unsuitable for ascension and instead repurposed them as collectors.

In the same way Harbinge mentions during the battle with the Proto Reaper (through control of a subordinate) how every species beyond Humans in this cycle has either has their potential wasted or is simply not good enough for the ascension (to clarify he mentions each species if you have a squadmember of that species facing the Proto Reaper such as the Korgan quote running if you have Grunt with you). By all logic this could easily have happened several times resulting in not every cycle giving birth to a new Sovereign class Reaper.

The mere fact that the Reapers see some life as unworthy for ascension also goes against the Catalyst supposed programming as according to it was tasked with finding a way to preserve ALL life, not just what it judged worthy. Though to be fair a possible explanation is that unworthy life is simply compiled in one or more Destroyer class Reapers, but that is only a theory.

Also we dont know Shepards condition when waking up and he would not need to do anything but speak into a microphone after beeing extracted. In fact if we look at the scene which plays out form a litteral perspective Shepard is no more hurt than that he can walk, converse with Anderson and later even go into full blown running when leaping into the Synthesis beam.

And regarding the Rachni Queen, the knowledge of each Queen is indeed passed down from Queen to Queen, but they do communicate with their children using a form of organic QEC as said by Ann Bryson in this quote: "At short range the Queen uses pheromones to give orders. At long range she uses an organic kind of quantum entanglement communicator."

Harvesters..well no real way to know, though the Harvesters we have encountered in ME2 only seemed to be at basic intelligence, using those Fire bettle things as drop shock troops and hanging back while they do the dirty work.

Also do you really think the EC, which is compiled of a few new lines of dialouge, a few scenes (the very stupid Normandy pickup scene and the Liara data cache scene) and a slide show of still pictures took 3 months to make? They were working on Leviathan even as they prepared EC, I am quite sure of that.

-Well, there are Reapers that don't allow you to access any relay except Sol's after Chronos Station.
-Leviathan staes that each cycle ends with the birth of a Reaper dreadnaught, with the lesser races becoming the Destroyers.
-The 'Breath scene" shows a very beaten armor covered in concrete, blood, and rebar, which means Shepard's at least out of the fight but I'll go halfway and say that they may be able to order a retreat.
-I agree that they spent some time working on Leviathan and maybe even Omega, but a month of the three was them listening to the fanbase's criticisms and figuring out which are plausible to achieve.

Andromidius wrote...

Fine, here's a logical question for you: Why would Bioware spend months creating the Extended Cut, which they could of spent making DLC they can charge for, in order to give us free content that adds epilogues to the endings if they're only "illusions" and not add your so-called "real" ending?

To shut people up. The complaints were very loud and very rawdy. The EC was pushed forwards to shut people up about sueing Bioware.

Funny thing is, the EC was mostly tinsel. The same problems still exist, and some problems were made even more apparent. And yet people gobbled it up and seem to be happy - thus proving the fanbase isn't as intelligent as it likes to think it is.

And honestly, why are Synthesis supporters suprised that people dislike their views and argument tactics? You think mass genocide is perfectly acceptable so long as you get pretty lights as someone telling you everything is perfect. Its a reprehensible standpoint, and should be ridiculed at every turn.

Destroy is genocide. The closest thing with a negative tone for Synthesis is eugenics.

Rifneno wrote...

God I wish they'd give us a functional ignore user setting... <sigh>

I apologize. I'll try to keep them in a single post from now on.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LDS Darth Revan:

The inability to go anywhere but Earth is not because of Reapers. Hacket clearly states that the moment he moves in to attack Cronos Station they wont be able to keep the Crucible hidden from the Reapers any longer. That we are out of time is only underlined by the fact that the Reapers capture the Citadel.

It is purely a gameplay mechanic intended to reinforce that we are out of time to prepare and can only gather the fleet and head to Earth. Which you do moments later and it would have been impossible if the Reapers were guarding every Relay.

Leviathan says...Leviathan is in hiding on a single or perhaps a few planets with only its Artifacts to watch the universe through and unless it has one of those Artifacts planted so that it has been able to view every single Reaper construction process through time it is only making a qualified guess.

Harbinger on the other hand has this to say about the species of this cycle:

“Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”

“Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”

“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”

“Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”

“Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”

“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

Clearly not every species is fit for ascension so it stands to reason not every cycle resulted in the creation of a new Reaper.

Even more so on the Reaper number question. If the Reapers had such overhwleming odds, why do they fear Shepard? In fact why even set up this entire charade with the Citadel and divide and conquor tactics every cycle and perhaps most importantly if they truly are so many then why does the Harvest take so long? It was multiple generations with the Protheans (as known by the fact that Protheans later in the cycle had never seen the Citadel as it feel before theri birth) and Liara estimates 100 years for this cycle.

But why all these charades, why use the Geth to wipe out the Quarians when they could have moved in with a thousand Sovereign class Reapers and mowed down the entire thing in a few hours, Geth and Quarian alike? If they have so many Sovereign class Reapers why leave Destroyers to guard important objectives like the Shroud and the Geth control signal? Why not a Sovereign class Reaper?

The bit about fearing Shepard is the most telling. Fear implies that they think he can end the cycle, end them, but if there are so many of them then why are they afraid, one man cant end them...unless they know he can end the Cycle through the use of Destroy...but wait they dont know about the Crucible. But if they did and what it does, should they not also see hope, a chance to solve the problem they were created to handle once and for all, manipulate Shepard towards that?

The answer is simple, there arent as many reapers as you believe. Sure there are more than enough to take us in a straight fight, but they are not as invincible as they want us to believe, a fact which is underlined throughout the game as we hear about Reapers beeing taken down from unconventional tactics such as smuggling nukes on board them or using hit and run tactics with Dreadnoughts. In fact it is mentioned how the Reapers specifically target nuke silos and collapse them. And on Illium a small fleet of mercenaries armed with nukes took out the Reapers harvester and troop transport ships slowing the harvesting to a crawl in that sector.

They have lost their element of suprise and know a united galaxy can hurt them badly and Shepard can unite the galaxy against them, that is why they fear him. But a galaxy united by one man can be undone by the same man, that is why they want to Indoctrinate him.

Also Shepard looks no worse in the Breath scene than he did when he stood up after Harbingers beam, at least if you ask me. Maybe except the metal piece sticking through his leg.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:03 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

God I wish they'd give us a functional ignore user setting... <sigh>

Be polite Rif, at least Darth Revan wants to discuss with us and dosent just go "IT suck, lolololol."

[spotlessvoid]

"I'm a transhumanist"

If you had any idea all the baggage that comes with that ideology. Will we one day surpass our fleshy bodies? Inevitably. Not like this though. This messianic complex of changing all other life to fit your world view is putrid and vile. It's also profoundly naive and displays a total lack of understanding of how conflict arises. Your final solution doesn't solve anything. Every transhumanist I've ever spoken to or read their writings have been at their core: deeply antihuman.

[Humakt83]

"Our most experienced technical experts are assisting with the Crucible. We have more experience with unfamiliar technologies than any other species, and I promise you that we will burn the Reapers from the sky as soon as the Crucible is installed."

- Admiral Shala'Raan

Modifié par Humakt83, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:15 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Oh and one more thing, that comment from Harbinger on the Geth is another punch at Catalyst and his logic.

Catalyst specifically says they preserve all Organic and Synthetic life, but Harbinger refers to the Geth as an annoyance and Sovereign drives them towards war...smooth:whistle:

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Jusseb]

It's all i ask from Bioware, just to blow Harbinger to bits...that's all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan:

The inability to go anywhere but Earth is not because of Reapers. Hacket clearly states that the moment he moves in to attack Cronos Station they wont be able to keep the Crucible hidden from the Reapers any longer. That we are out of time is only underlined by the fact that the Reapers capture the Citadel.

It is purely a gameplay mechanic intended to reinforce that we are out of time to prepare and can only gather the fleet and head to Earth. Which you do moments later and it would have been impossible if the Reapers were guarding every Relay.

Leviathan says...Leviathan is in hiding on a single or perhaps a few planets with only its Artifacts to watch the universe through and unless it has one of those Artifacts planted so that it has been able to view every single Reaper construction process through time it is only making a qualified guess.

Harbinger on the other hand has this to say about the species of this cycle:

“Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”

“Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”

“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”

“Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”

“Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”

“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

Clearly not every species is fit for ascension so it stands to reason not every cycle resulted in the creation of a new Reaper.

Even more so on the Reaper number question. If the Reapers had such overhwleming odds, why do they fear Shepard? In fact why even set up this entire charade with the Citadel and divide and conquor tactics every cycle and perhaps most importantly if they truly are so many then why does the Harvest take so long? It was multiple generations with the Protheans (as known by the fact that Protheans later in the cycle had never seen the Citadel as it feel before theri birth) and Liara estimates 100 years for this cycle.

But why all these charades, why use the Geth to wipe out the Quarians when they could have moved in with a thousand Sovereign class Reapers and mowed down the entire thing in a few hours, Geth and Quarian alike? If they have so many Sovereign class Reapers why leave Destroyers to guard important objectives like the Shroud and the Geth control signal? Why not a Sovereign class Reaper?

The bit about fearing Shepard is the most telling. Fear implies that they think he can end the cycle, end them, but if there are so many of them then why are they afraid, one man cant end them...unless they know he can end the Cycle through the use of Destroy...but wait they dont know about the Crucible. But if they did and what it does, should they not also see hope, a chance to solve the problem they were created to handle once and for all, manipulate Shepard towards that?

The answer is simple, there arent as many reapers as you believe. Sure there are more than enough to take us in a straight fight, but they are not as invincible as they want us to believe, a fact which is underlined throughout the game as we hear about Reapers beeing taken down from unconventional tactics such as smuggling nukes on board them or using hit and run tactics with Dreadnoughts. In fact it is mentioned how the Reapers specifically target nuke silos and collapse them. And on Illium a small fleet of mercenaries armed with nukes took out the Reapers harvester and troop transport ships slowing the harvesting to a crawl in that sector.

They have lost their element of suprise and know a united galaxy can hurt them badly and Shepard can unite the galaxy against them, that is why they fear him. But a galaxy united by one man can be undone by the same man, that is why they want to Indoctrinate him.

Also Shepard looks no worse in the Breath scene than he did when he stood up after Harbingers beam, at least if you ask me. Maybe except the metal piece sticking through his leg.

-I agree it's just a gameplay mechanic, but Reapers are shown to be fighting on worlds such as Thessia, Tuchanka, and Palavan so they aren't all on Earth. As to why even with their numbers, Vigil staes that "the extermination of an entire species is a long, slow process. Years passed. Decades. Centuries. The Reapers were persistant". The majority of a harvest is hunting down every single colony that can sustain a population. Also, the entire game takes place in under a few months so even the Reapers can't dominate an entire galaxy that quickly, especially one somewhat prepared as you stated.
-The reason they have Destroyers in those positions is probably just to be boss battles since even Kalros is no match to a dreadnaught one on one.
- never heard those dialogue options, so thanks for pointing those out.. Must be a glitch in my game.
-I'd say they aren't afraid of Shepard, but are wary since Shepard has done things that were considered impossible even to them. I also believe Harbinger somewhat respects you, but that's just an opinion of mine since he speaks of you by name to the other Reapers.
-That rebar sticking through Shepard's leg is why I think Shepard's out of the fight, though I never experience that scene anyway so it doesn't exist in my particular MEU.

Sorry this got all jumbled up.

[byne]

Humakt83 wrote...

"Our most experienced technical experts are assisting with the Crucible. We have more experience with unfamiliar technologies than any other species, and I promise you that we will burn the Reapers from the sky as soon as the Crucible is installed."

- Admiral Shala'Raan

The fact that Raan knows ahead of time that the Crucible will have to be installed into something is interesting.