Ce sujet est fermé
So it is like in world war II - we have to assume tha A - the enemy is listening in, B - could actually be feeding misinformation into our channels. Faking voices is a kid's play for reapers. As is breaking encription, if there is even any.
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
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#41477
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:05
Humakt83
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Download or open the picture in separate tab if you want to see it in normal size.
Modifié par Humakt83, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:06 .
#41478
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:05
demersel
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Rifneno wrote...
What? That's... that's stupid. Radio towers can get knocked out by a bad storm, and the REAPERS aren't bothering to just blow the damn things up? Or at least fill the frequences that humans use with static?
They can do anything they want with radio. that is why we can't rely on it. That is why we have to question and double check any info we get through the radio.
#41479
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:06
demersel
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Humakt83 wrote...
Yes thank you. I've been saying it for ages - the beam thing in London looks exactly like those climate changing devices in ME2 geth mission and in Firewalker ice planet mission.
Modifié par demersel, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:09 .
#41480
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:10
Humakt83
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demersel wrote...
Yes thank you. I've been saying it for ages - the beam thing in londen looks exactly like those climate changing devices in ME2 geth mission and in Firewalker ice planet mission.
Not quite. The supporting structures for the beam in London have "eyes", or that's what they seem to be, They also look a lot like Reapers.
The shape is similar but there are lots of differences:
And after Harbinger defeats Shepard, the supporting structures seem to be a lot closer to the beam.
Anyway, the "climate changing device" hums. Distinctively.
Modifié par Humakt83, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:15 .
#41481
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:11
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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Just a quick question, after the Cerberus Coup, during the conversation where you decide if your VS gets back on the Normandy, Ashley says some important dialogue regarding Indoctrination, "How do you fight something that can worm it's way into your head?" Just for reference, does anyone remember what Kaiden says? Haha where is DD and the quote compilation?
Kaidan talks about acting with integrity. How do you know you acted with integrity. It stays the same whether you choose to kill (destoy) udina or let him do it. I never considered the implications of that line until you made me think about it. Now I realize it's related to choices. Acting with integrity. Living with yourself after you've made the decision and taken the action. Which decision has the most integrity? Which is the right one? You have a ship full of crew that is saying destroy. You have hackett telling you destroy is the only way to win. Then you have these other two or three (if you count refuse) choices which let the reapers exists and one alters the entire galaxy at a genetic level that is pretty horrific. So which of these choices is knowing you've acted with integrity? And interestingly it is around a tough decision to shoot udina. Destroy was the only option there. He was going to shoot someone. He already cased massive destruction by allying with cerberus. So you have to DESTROY him. This is almost the exact conversation (meaning wise - the right choice isn't always the easy one) you have with Vega.
I never even gave it a thought until now. Thanks for bringing that up.
#41482
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:14
DoomsdayDevice
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Sareth Cousland wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
- use clues to pinpoint the exact location of an objective (Leviathan had the clues and search part)
Thoughts?
You know what's interesting in light of IT? This achievement is called "conspiracy theorist". Its definition is as you quoted. IT fans are often labeled "conspiracy theorists", and the achievement description is nothing but a definition of pure logic.
Bump, just for the lulz. =P
#41483
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:14
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demersel wrote...
Humakt83 wrote...
Yes thank you. I've been saying it for ages - the beam thing in London looks exactly like those climate changing devices in ME2 geth mission and in Firewalker ice planet mission.
I haven't seen this in game. Were they from DLC packs? I have Arrival and Overlord.
The image is pretty clearly a parallel to the chamber beams and/or the crucible beam. Were there any other themes within that fitting to IT? Any dialogue?
#41484
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:17
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Sareth Cousland wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
- use clues to pinpoint the exact location of an objective (Leviathan had the clues and search part)
Thoughts?
You know what's interesting in light of IT? This achievement is called "conspiracy theorist". Its definition is as you quoted. IT fans are often labeled "conspiracy theorists", and the achievement description is nothing but a definition of pure logic.
Bump, just for the lulz. =P
Where did you get that image? I've yet to get any of that stuff in game. it's still 'locked'. Grrr.
#41485
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:18
Humakt83
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The distance to the beam's "support structures" change after Shepard gets back on his feet.
#41486
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:19
DoomsdayDevice
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NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Just a quick question, after the Cerberus Coup, during the conversation where you decide if your VS gets back on the Normandy, Ashley says some important dialogue regarding Indoctrination, "How do you fight something that can worm it's way into your head?" Just for reference, does anyone remember what Kaiden says? Haha where is DD and the quote compilation?
The quote thread is in the IT Group.
Direct link to thread.
That Ashley dialogue is in there, but I don't have what Kaidan says. (Not even sure it's relevant, just can't remember).
The quotes are by no means complete, so please keep them coming!
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:21 .
#41487
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:21
DoomsdayDevice
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starlitegirlx wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Sareth Cousland wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
- use clues to pinpoint the exact location of an objective (Leviathan had the clues and search part)
Thoughts?
You know what's interesting in light of IT? This achievement is called "conspiracy theorist". Its definition is as you quoted. IT fans are often labeled "conspiracy theorists", and the achievement description is nothing but a definition of pure logic.
Bump, just for the lulz. =P
Where did you get that image? I've yet to get any of that stuff in game. it's still 'locked'. Grrr.
Made it myself. I made a printscreen of the achievement bit from an achievement guide site, and added it on to one of our IT images about pinpointing the location of the breath scene (Citadel vs. London)
The achievement is from Leviathan though.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:21 .
#41488
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:22
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Just a quick question, after the Cerberus Coup, during the conversation where you decide if your VS gets back on the Normandy, Ashley says some important dialogue regarding Indoctrination, "How do you fight something that can worm it's way into your head?" Just for reference, does anyone remember what Kaiden says? Haha where is DD and the quote compilation?
The quote thread is in the IT Group.
Direct link to thread.
The quotes are by no means complete, so please keep them coming!
Kaidan talks about acting with integrity. How do you know you acted with integrity. It stays the same whether you choose to kill (destoy) udina or let him do it. I never considered the implications of that line until you made me think about it. Now I realize it's related to choices. Acting with integrity. Living with yourself after you've made the
decision and taken the action. Which decision has the most integrity? Which is the right one? You have a ship full of crew that is saying destroy. You have hackett telling you destroy is the only way to win. Then you have these other two or three (if you count refuse) choices which let the reapers exists and one alters the entire galaxy at a
genetic level that is pretty horrific. So which of these choices is knowing you've acted with integrity? And interestingly it is around a tough decision to shoot udina. Destroy was the only option there. He was going to shoot someone. He already cased massive destruction by allying with cerberus. So you have to DESTROY him. This is almost the exact conversation (meaning wise - the right choice isn't always the easy one)
you have with Vega.
I'd say it's relevant.
Modifié par starlitegirlx, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:25 .
#41489
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:24
Humakt83
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Dèjá vu
It is a small side mission from original ME 2.
starlitegirlx wrote...
I haven't seen this in game. Were they from DLC packs? I have Arrival and Overlord.
The image is pretty clearly a parallel to the chamber beams and/or the crucible beam. Were there any other themes within that fitting to IT? Any dialogue?
It is a small side mission from original ME 2.
#41490
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:27
Dwailing
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HOLY SHISNO! I just watched the last seven or so episodes of RvB, and it was INCREDIBLE! And that fight scene with all of them. That was just... woah!
#41491
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:27
DoomsdayDevice
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starlitegirlx wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Just a quick question, after the Cerberus Coup, during the conversation where you decide if your VS gets back on the Normandy, Ashley says some important dialogue regarding Indoctrination, "How do you fight something that can worm it's way into your head?" Just for reference, does anyone remember what Kaiden says? Haha where is DD and the quote compilation?
The quote thread is in the IT Group.
Direct link to thread.
The quotes are by no means complete, so please keep them coming!
Kaidan talks about acting with integrity. How do you know you acted with integrity. It stays the same whether you choose to kill (destoy) udina or let him do it. I never considered the implications of that line until you made me think about it. Now I realize it's related to choices. Acting with integrity. Living with yourself after you've made the
decision and taken the action. Which decision has the most integrity? Which is the right one? You have a ship full of crew that is saying destroy. You have hackett telling you destroy is the only way to win. Then you have these other two or three (if you count refuse) choices which let the reapers exists and one alters the entire galaxy at a
genetic level that is pretty horrific. So which of these choices is knowing you've acted with integrity? And interestingly it is around a tough decision to shoot udina. Destroy was the only option there. He was going to shoot someone. He already cased massive destruction by allying with cerberus. So you have to DESTROY him. This is almost the exact conversation (meaning wise - the right choice isn't always the easy one)
you have with Vega.
I'd say it's relevant.
Very good point. And wow, you type fast.
#41492
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:29
Rifneno
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demersel wrote...
Humakt83 wrote...
Yes thank you. I've been saying it for ages - the beam thing in London looks exactly like those climate changing devices in ME2 geth mission and in Firewalker ice planet mission.
The beam itself is the exact same model.
#41493
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:29
byne
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Dwailing wrote...
HOLY SHISNO! I just watched the last seven or so episodes of RvB, and it was INCREDIBLE! And that fight scene with all of them. That was just... woah!
I think 19 was the best episode this season, but last night's was pretty good too.
I was suprised to see Caboose animated, since from what they're always said, they never intended to animate Caboose.
#41494
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:29
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demersel wrote...
If you look really carefull at all of this - it is as if your crew is going through all the same stuf that is shepard going through (they all fight their personal battle with indoctrination) - but somehow they are better at it (as in they don't need your help by now) - and they see and recognise what is shepard going through - but they can only hope that he'll prevail, since it is a battle each one must fight for himsefl - they can only help you with words.
Agreed here.
Shepard starts with relative confidence (as seen as when he assures Liara on Mars), but over the course of the game, the squadmates really start to come into their own (when it comes to knowing they want to destroy the Reapers, not just stop them like Shepard indicates with his script), and Shepard gradually loses confidence.
My idea is that Bioware is leading up to a moment in the story (DLC, expansion?) where your squadmates literally and mentally pick you up from the rubble.
#41495
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:30
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Rifneno wrote...
Sareth Cousland wrote...
leonia42 wrote...
I think Javik's intentions are quite clear. However, I am curious as to what you think Garrus thinks on the situation. The conversation regarding dictators seems to favour control and he even speaks favourably of TIM at Cronos station (with the addendum that he once had good intentions but has since gone mad). I like to think all of the squad-mates would support Destroy but that's just wishful thinking, when you get down to it.. do you really think they'd all agree?
"Sometimes, the universe needs cold hearted dictators" / "if one million over here must die so that two millions over there would live, could you pull the trigger?" (not an exact quote)
Both favor destroy. Control implies that Shepard can do what he wants with the Reapers - both paragon and renegade control epilogues paint him as a leader who is serving the many, with different measures of force - so he is a dictator, but not really "cold-hearted". To destroy, however, is to kill one million over here so that two millions over there can live. If you reply with the paragon option to Garrus' question whether you could pull the trigger (cp. Shep's action in destroy), you essentially say that it's immoral and that war cannot be reduced to mathematics - to which Garrus replies "a nice sentiment - let's hope we can live by it".
Javik is a lot more explicit - he mentions that the Reapers turned children against their people because they would have trouble fighting back; this is a direct reference to starbinger. He also tells the story of one race from his cycle that underwent synthesis and was enslaved by the synthetic components - "they were monsters". The final dialogue with him is also a strong hint: Link (especially beginning at 1:00) - there is no other significant decision apart from that in the decision chamber after that dialogue.
I just hope that Javik having to execute his entire crew when they wound up indoctrinated isn't foreshadowing Shepard's future. That would... God, God no.
I think it might be a potential future depending on choices... but if you have a confident crew, I'd more imagine picking Control/Synthesis results in THEM having to execute YOU.
#41496
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:36
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
NebuchadnezzaRT wrote...
Just a quick question, after the Cerberus Coup, during the conversation where you decide if your VS gets back on the Normandy, Ashley says some important dialogue regarding Indoctrination, "How do you fight something that can worm it's way into your head?" Just for reference, does anyone remember what Kaiden says? Haha where is DD and the quote compilation?
The quote thread is in the IT Group.
Direct link to thread.
The quotes are by no means complete, so please keep them coming!
Kaidan talks about acting with integrity. How do you know you acted with integrity. It stays the same whether you choose to kill (destoy) udina or let him do it. I never considered the implications of that line until you made me think about it. Now I realize it's related to choices. Acting with integrity. Living with yourself after you've made the
decision and taken the action. Which decision has the most integrity? Which is the right one? You have a ship full of crew that is saying destroy. You have hackett telling you destroy is the only way to win. Then you have these other two or three (if you count refuse) choices which let the reapers exists and one alters the entire galaxy at a
genetic level that is pretty horrific. So which of these choices is knowing you've acted with integrity? And interestingly it is around a tough decision to shoot udina. Destroy was the only option there. He was going to shoot someone. He already cased massive destruction by allying with cerberus. So you have to DESTROY him. This is almost the exact conversation (meaning wise - the right choice isn't always the easy one)
you have with Vega.
I'd say it's relevant.
Very good point. And wow, you type fast.
Actually I copy and paste fast. It was brought up by another poster in an ealier page as to what kaidan says at that point. I had already responded. But then I copied it here when you posted about it. Though I do type fast at times.
Modifié par starlitegirlx, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:37 .
#41497
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:38
DoomsdayDevice
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TTYL people, I'm off for now.
And remember:
And remember:
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 octobre 2012 - 04:39 .
#41498
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:41
Andromidius
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Starting ME3 again. Importing my Maleshep.
Originally in ME1 he had a dirty big scar down his right eye. In ME2 its gone, no way to put it back on. In ME3 the face importer doesn't even get the skin colour right - he looks more like Cortez!
After all the fixes and patches...the face importer still sucks. So I had to rebuild my Shep from scratch, and get him as close as possible - still doesn't look exactly right. /cry
Originally in ME1 he had a dirty big scar down his right eye. In ME2 its gone, no way to put it back on. In ME3 the face importer doesn't even get the skin colour right - he looks more like Cortez!
After all the fixes and patches...the face importer still sucks. So I had to rebuild my Shep from scratch, and get him as close as possible - still doesn't look exactly right. /cry
#41499
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:43
spotlessvoid
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What's this? Derelict Radio Theory?
#41500
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 30 octobre 2012 - 04:48
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
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SwobyJ wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
Sareth Cousland wrote...
leonia42 wrote...
I think Javik's intentions are quite clear. However, I am curious as to what you think Garrus thinks on the situation. The conversation regarding dictators seems to favour control and he even speaks favourably of TIM at Cronos station (with the addendum that he once had good intentions but has since gone mad). I like to think all of the squad-mates would support Destroy but that's just wishful thinking, when you get down to it.. do you really think they'd all agree?
"Sometimes, the universe needs cold hearted dictators" / "if one million over here must die so that two millions over there would live, could you pull the trigger?" (not an exact quote)
Both favor destroy. Control implies that Shepard can do what he wants with the Reapers - both paragon and renegade control epilogues paint him as a leader who is serving the many, with different measures of force - so he is a dictator, but not really "cold-hearted". To destroy, however, is to kill one million over here so that two millions over there can live. If you reply with the paragon option to Garrus' question whether you could pull the trigger (cp. Shep's action in destroy), you essentially say that it's immoral and that war cannot be reduced to mathematics - to which Garrus replies "a nice sentiment - let's hope we can live by it".
Javik is a lot more explicit - he mentions that the Reapers turned children against their people because they would have trouble fighting back; this is a direct reference to starbinger. He also tells the story of one race from his cycle that underwent synthesis and was enslaved by the synthetic components - "they were monsters". The final dialogue with him is also a strong hint: Link (especially beginning at 1:00) - there is no other significant decision apart from that in the decision chamber after that dialogue.
I just hope that Javik having to execute his entire crew when they wound up indoctrinated isn't foreshadowing Shepard's future. That would... God, God no.
I think it might be a potential future depending on choices... but if you have a confident crew, I'd more imagine picking Control/Synthesis results in THEM having to execute YOU.
But the choices aren't real so javik wouldn't be executing anyone. Gotta remember that everything in the chamber is NOT HAPPENING. So things that may or may not happen after them (beyond discussion of why one would choose to not destroy and then examination of the outcome of that choice for IT purposes) is irrelevant. It never happens. Making those choices does nothing but fully indoctrinate Shepard and turn him/her into a tool of the reapers. There is no actually synthesis and there is no actual control because in REALITY where shepard currently is not, there is no frackin' way in hell reapers would ever let shepard control them. Nor is there a way to force synthesis as laid out by the brat on everyone or the reapers would be doing it. The only thing the reaper do is change organics into abominations. There is no element of synthesis involved. Those choices are likely plucked from Shepard's mind as they represent the two major conflicts Shepard had to work to resolve (quarians/geth for control and genophage/uplifting that caused need for genophage for synthesis). It's all symbolism and issues from shepard's mind that the reapers are using and TWISTING to indoctrinate shepard. So remember, NOT REAL.
