80611 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

Ok Quick question.

I understand the full basis of the indoctrination theory I know nearly everything it entailed and pointed out as evidence.

So the question is simple.

What in the world makes you people think that they'll incorporate anything like this at this point?

Why go through all this trouble to "indoctrinate" people. Wasting months of resources and time (with the EC that they had to do)

To then come out and say "Hey. Here ya go."

[Arashi08]

ld1449 wrote...

Ok Quick question.

I understand the full basis of the indoctrination theory I know nearly everything it entailed and pointed out as evidence.

So the question is simple.

What in the world makes you people think that they'll incorporate anything like this at this point?

Why go through all this trouble to "indoctrinate" people. Wasting months of resources and time (with the EC that they had to do)

To then come out and say "Hey. Here ya go."

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

[masster blaster]

ld1449 wrote...

Ok Quick question.

I understand the full basis of the indoctrination theory I know nearly everything it entailed and pointed out as evidence.

So the question is simple.

What in the world makes you people think that they'll incorporate anything like this at this point?

Why go through all this trouble to "indoctrinate" people. Wasting months of resources and time (with the EC that they had to do)

To then come out and say "Hey. Here ya go."

I think everyone is on break so here I go.

Money Ea want's more money and IT is the best way to get money.

JK, well EC was not what Bioware had in mind, and weall agreed that the EC was to calm everyone down, so Bioware can now get back on what they were planing. And we don't think Bioware will say IT is right, but they will comfirm  IT through game play like they said.  " We will let the content speak for it'self."

[FFZero]

masster blaster wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

This thread is severely off-topic. Why discuss multiplayer experience and off-topic "nonsense" in a thread that suppose to be filled with speculations and theories, let-alone, more "evidence" to back it up?

Kinda annoying have to read alot of BS, would appriciate the more concrete, constructive posts.

Oh for the love of..

There is nothing new to speculate about, there hasn’t been since the EC, and even then there were only a few new details to speculate over. We have speculated over everything we can, we’ve analysed this game inside and out, there is nothing new to talk about. Until the release of new DLC this thread is going to continually go off-topic. Here's an idea, if you don’t like that then you could actually contribute something productive to the thread and give us something on-topic to talk about instead of just moan about off topic discussions.

Hey sit down. Finger is only saying that we need more speculations, and stop lazing around.

Yeah, sorry if I came across a bit hostile Fingertrip. Insomnia + BSN don’t mix apparently.

All I’m saying is that we’ve speculated about all that we can at this point and until we get DLC there’s nothing new to add, and after 4-5 months of speculating and 4000+ pages the thread is bound to go off topic, so instead of getting annoyed, get us back on track.

Modifié par FFZero, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:38 .

[lex0r11]

masster blaster wrote...

[...]

... And we don't think Bioware will say IT is right, but they will comfirm  IT through game play like they said.  " We will let the content speak for it'self."

That line was for the EC itself.

Some might like to think this is how they will do it, but don't take words and stick'em to other things.

[JasonSic]

ld1449 wrote...

Ok Quick question.

I understand the full basis of the indoctrination theory I know nearly everything it entailed and pointed out as evidence.

So the question is simple.

What in the world makes you people think that they'll incorporate anything like this at this point?

Why go through all this trouble to "indoctrinate" people. Wasting months of resources and time (with the EC that they had to do)

To then come out and say "Hey. Here ya go."

The months of resources and time was not a waste. The EC was to merely calm the fanbase down, and it was successful for the most-part. Whatever Bioware was planning before announcing EC probably still stands.

Modifié par JasonSic, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:44 .

[ld1449]

Arashi08 wrote...

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

Not at all.

Believe me if I were being condescending you wouldn't need to ask.

I'm just genuinely curious as to what makes you (the remaining IT'rs) think that this is indeed how they'll play this out.

At this point every non satisfied fan is just scrambling for anything but the endings that we got. Wether its IT, victory through refusal, the Leviathan being a saving throw. Anything we can scrounge up even a halfway decent alternative is something people are jumping on.

I can see why of course. The endings as is are just that bad.

But IT seems like the least likely at this point.

Edit: And believe me I wish you were right regardless. I am one who still isn't satified with the endings so anything outside of Hacket turning out to be the reaper Doomsday device is good in my book.

Modifié par ld1449, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:51 .

[TheConstantOne]

byne wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Anyone else think it would be interesting if helping Leviathan causes him to appear and start messing with the Starchild in the final scene? It would be intriguing to see a showdowon of sorts between Harbinger (who stands for the extinction of countless species and the enslavement of the galaxy's evolutionary cycle) and Leviathan (standing for the freedom of the galaxy's evolution). The paragon Reaper vs the renegade Reaper

 
Can you imagine a more irrelevant place for shepard than in a pitched reaper battle?
*Pulls out predator*
*fires*
*neither of the reapers notice*

To be fair, even a husk will barely notice if you shoot it with a Predator.

I didn't mean Shepard would be fighting the Reapers personally.  I was referring to a counter illusion to Starkid created by Leviathan.  I doubt Bioware will do this but I thought it might be interesting IF handled correctly

[TheConstantOne]

Wayning_Star wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually the IT'ers have a point that Shep was indoctrinated before he was aboard the citadel. It's the only way the catalyst can communicate with organic life. All the dream scenes were the symptoms of indoctrination, as Sheps mind became accustomed to the wavelength, of sorts, of this channel. Very over powering, could even destroy Sheps sanity. The fact that Shep underwent trauma every time he encountered a form of reaper strong enough to emmit that signal,almost put Shep in the throws of indoctrination.

But something is different about Shepard, for some reason he can withstand it, barely, and able to communicate directly with the catalyst during their meeting. It always bugged me that these visions were always confused in Shepards mind, from the first beacon encounter to the time he was wisked up to the citadel. Who prepped Shepard for that. Getting strafed by a reaper molten metal beam isn't bad enough, to being removed from your body and end up where they take organics to get harvested,without getting reduced to random atoms is a strange thing.

Shep had to be in some sort of trancelike state on the ground, his intellect taken up that beam(kind of like when they harvest the DNA and memories) to talk it over and decide.In a sense, Shepard was indoctrinated, but only enough to be in state capable of surviving direct contact with the catalyst computer AI, who appears to be just memory of Shepards dream state. It's understandable that the IT folks feels that the whole thing is a sham and trap. The only hole there is that if the catalyst wished to just 'take over' Shep, why not use direct control? Cause it said that the IM wasn't able to control cause he was truely indoctrinated. Like Saren, unable to resist and keep their independent 'self' as it were.

just a theory taken from the game facts I experienced...

I think the reason for this is that the direct control trick requires the puppet to be cybernetically enhanced or altered in some way.  Consider Saren and the Collectors.  Sovreign "augmented" Saren by essentially replacing a good portion of him with cybernetics.  That's why, when Saren is killed by Shepard for the first time, Sovreign can assume direct control of the corpse and you fight a skeletal cyborg as the final boss.  The Collectors were altered extensively both genetically AND cybernetically (as Mordin says, many fundamental pieces of themselves and their society was replaced by tech.)

Indoctrination seems to work via nanites altering brain chemistry.  These nanites have been shown to create cybernetic alterations to a body (this is talked about in one of the ME novels) but Shepard hasn't been indoctrinated to this point yet nor are his cybernetics designed to allow such a control feature.  His strong willpower has helped keep him on the correct path and resist Reaper influences but the fight has been a long one and the end of the game takes us to Shepard's breaking point.  Whether he breaks or not is up to whether he can successfully escape Harbinger's/the Reaper collective's final illusion.  

The codex in the game doen't mention any nano tech, just subliminal and extrasensory sound stuff.  The nanites would be more believeble, to me anyway.  Nanites are definitely used during harvesting, they reduce victims on the collector ship. Shep, has some inate ablity to communicate with reaper stuff, and the catalyst creator tech for some reason,from the start. This kind of puts a damper on the IT, as Shep has an edge on it. Ahead of the game, in that regard, the 'why' is the mystery though...

addendum: wiki

""
The precise mechanics of the indoctrination effect are poorly understood. It is believed that the Reapers generate an electromagnetic field, waves of infrasound and ultrasound, or both in order to stimulate areas of a victim's brain and limbic system. The resulting effect varies depending on the intent of the Reaper: the victim may suffer headaches and hallucinations, have feelings of "being watched" or paranoia, or come to view the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal, manifesting as voices within the victim's mind.
Rana Thanoptis, an asari neuroscientist on Virmire, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been Captain Kirrahe's men.
But as Saren Arterius discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the Conduit.
The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."
The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.
Ironically, Sovereign's indoctrination may have led to its undoing. After the attack on Virmire, when Shepard told Saren he had been indoctrinated without realizing it, Saren's resolve began to falter and he started questioning what he was doing. To keep Saren loyal, Sovereign put cybernetic implants in Saren's body and used those implants to influence and control the former Spectre. Saren found his loyalty to Sovereign's cause greatly strengthened, although he wasn't a brainless slave and could still be reasoned with. When Saren died, the Reaper somehow used the implants to reanimate his corpse and fight Shepard. Because Sovereign was focusing a significant portion of energy to control Saren, the Reaper fell off balance by losing shields and became vulnerable with the destruction of its avatar. With its shields down, the Alliance Navy was able to destroy the Reaper. Although the rest of the Reapers during the invasion don't seem to suffer from this flaw, notable when Harbinger assumes direct control of a Collector Drone.

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination

I'm surprised that there isn't a mention of the nanites.  The in-game reference to that is the Sanctuary mission.  They were using nanites to influence the ardenlin glands I believe and by doing so they could control the husks

[billzo]

Interesting point: Your choice at the Crucible is not saved. How on earth are we going to import our choice to ME 4 (assuming there is one)?

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

well IT can be a hallucination or it can't i believe it is >.> at least the hallucination fixes the ending with awesomeness !

plus you can end Shepard's story with a hallucination O>o

[ld1449]

JasonSic wrote...


The months of resources and time was not a waste. The EC was to merely calm the fanbase down, and it was successful for the most-part. Whatever Bioware was planning before announcing EC probably still stands.

Then why not take the three four or six months they'd need to just make the IT? Its like, they have a plan to build a house. But spend three months of the time they could have used to start building the house into building a hovel shed or something.


Its a nice shed but ultimately its not a house.

[L0NEWOLF25]

billzo wrote...

Interesting point: Your choice at the Crucible is not saved. How on earth are we going to import our choice to ME 4 (assuming there is one)?

It wouldn't be a problem for PC users since they would still have their ME3 saves on their harddrive when they play ME4, but for the console gamers they might be screwed if ME4 is brought to the next Generation of consoles.

[Arian Dynas]

Fingertrip wrote...

This thread is severely off-topic. Why discuss multiplayer experience and off-topic "nonsense" in a thread that suppose to be filled with speculations and theories, let-alone, more "evidence" to back it up?

Kinda annoying have to read alot of BS, would appriciate the more concrete, constructive posts.

I sugguest the roqefourt, it complements that whine you have there very nicely.

[Arian Dynas]

billzo wrote...

Interesting point: Your choice at the Crucible is not saved. How on earth are we going to import our choice to ME 4 (assuming there is one)?

'


Yes it is. Legendsave.

[liggy002]

masster blaster wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Ok Quick question.

I understand the full basis of the indoctrination theory I know nearly everything it entailed and pointed out as evidence.

So the question is simple.

What in the world makes you people think that they'll incorporate anything like this at this point?

Why go through all this trouble to "indoctrinate" people. Wasting months of resources and time (with the EC that they had to do)

To then come out and say "Hey. Here ya go."

I think everyone is on break so here I go.

Money Ea want's more money and IT is the best way to get money.

JK, well EC was not what Bioware had in mind, and weall agreed that the EC was to calm everyone down, so Bioware can now get back on what they were planing. And we don't think Bioware will say IT is right, but they will comfirm IT through game play like they said. " We will let the content speak for it'self."

   I don't know. They seem to be fond of discrediting the IT every chance they get. They were explaining at conventions (can't remember which one) how Shepard could survive in space without a helmet. Then, Merizan tells us that they talked to the sound guys and they said that Harbinger was just babbling. Personally, I think that Bioware is full of it and I would love for them to prove me wrong. If this IT stuff isn't true, and I really don't think it is at this point, they would have mislead a lot of their fans into thinking it was possibility which is not the way to treat your loyal customers.

Modifié par liggy002, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:06 .

[Arian Dynas]

paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@Arian: You let that Banshee instakill you. But the fight was epic. You stood alone for quite a time. On Gold!

I was taking a whizz >.<

During a game?! For shame!

I was in a game when the thread got locked, and even then I kept playing and tossing arc grenades while starting the new thread.

You have no excuses, Arian!

He went afk in the round where paxxton and he died a little after the start of the wave, and gunslinger_ruiz  and I barely killed the remainings. When the next round started, Arian was still standing motionless on the spot.


I guess he foresaw a premature end of the game?


And this might be the only reason for me to buy a 360: tossing grenades with byne!

I saw something completely different. Arian was running in circles around Firebase Jade. And then the Banshee killed him because he stopped for a second.

I was the last man standing, Reapers, wave 7, gold,everyone else got nailed, I was running around jade trying to survive at least 4 Ravagers, a gaggle of Mauraders, a handful of husks, and (as I found out later, to my consternation) a pair of banshees.

I kept running circuts for about 20 minutes, trying to stay alive, managed to whittle them down to one banshee and a husk, I had used my other missile launcher on the other banshee, so I had no way of dropping the barrier on this one. Kamikaze'd it, paid for it.

[Arian Dynas]

ld1449 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

Not at all.

Believe me if I were being condescending you wouldn't need to ask.

I'm just genuinely curious as to what makes you (the remaining IT'rs) think that this is indeed how they'll play this out.

At this point every non satisfied fan is just scrambling for anything but the endings that we got. Wether its IT, victory through refusal, the Leviathan being a saving throw. Anything we can scrounge up even a halfway decent alternative is something people are jumping on.

I can see why of course. The endings as is are just that bad.

But IT seems like the least likely at this point.

Edit: And believe me I wish you were right regardless. I am one who still isn't satified with the endings so anything outside of Hacket turning out to be the reaper Doomsday device is good in my book.

Check my sig, Bioware Business Plan - How We Made Money, Without Really Crying for a theory on the whys and the hows.

[Arashi08]

ld1449 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

Not at all.

Believe me if I were being condescending you wouldn't need to ask.

I'm just genuinely curious as to what makes you (the remaining IT'rs) think that this is indeed how they'll play this out.

At this point every non satisfied fan is just scrambling for anything but the endings that we got. Wether its IT, victory through refusal, the Leviathan being a saving throw. Anything we can scrounge up even a halfway decent alternative is something people are jumping on.

I can see why of course. The endings as is are just that bad.

But IT seems like the least likely at this point.

Edit: And believe me I wish you were right regardless. I am one who still isn't satified with the endings so anything outside of Hacket turning out to be the reaper Doomsday device is good in my book.

Why does it matter?

As much as I like IT, I'm not married to the concept.  I just want a satisfying ending, which I'm pretty sure alot of people want on here too.  For me at least the speculations give us a chance to see things differently and communicate our thoughts on it.  Naturally it isn't going to answer every question, and even if BioWare did do something like this, we most likely will never be 100% correct. I see this thread as an avenue for looking at things differently and it also gives us hope that BioWare has something else planned, and the endongs as we got them wewre only a part of something greater and not "laziness" or "bad writing."

Whatever they go with, as long as it is a satisfying ending, it will work for me, and the IT thread gives me the confidence in BW that will allow me to give them another chance, that's all.

Edited for things to see things to change things that didn't make things that made any sense with other things.


GRAMMAR!!!

Modifié par Arashi08, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:48 .

[Arashi08]

I'd say I broke the thread, as as soon as I do someone else will post less than a minute after mine shows up. lol

[KJSync]

Arashi08 wrote...

I'd say I broke the thread, as as soon as I do someone else will post less than a minute after mine shows up. lol

It's just late and everyone is sleeping

Modifié par Brazukka, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .

[TheConstantOne]

Arashi08 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

Not at all.

Believe me if I were being condescending you wouldn't need to ask.

I'm just genuinely curious as to what makes you (the remaining IT'rs) think that this is indeed how they'll play this out.

At this point every non satisfied fan is just scrambling for anything but the endings that we got. Wether its IT, victory through refusal, the Leviathan being a saving throw. Anything we can scrounge up even a halfway decent alternative is something people are jumping on.

I can see why of course. The endings as is are just that bad.

But IT seems like the least likely at this point.

Edit: And believe me I wish you were right regardless. I am one who still isn't satified with the endings so anything outside of Hacket turning out to be the reaper Doomsday device is good in my book.

Why does it matter?

As much as I like IT, I'm not married to the concept.  I just want a satisfying ending, which I'm pretty sure alot of people want on here too.  For me at least the speculations give us things to see things differently and communicate our thoughts on it.  Naturally it isn't going to answer every question, and even if BioWare did do something like this, we most likely will never be 100% correct. I see this thread as an avenue for looking at things differently and it also gives us hope that BioWare has something else planned, and the endongs as we got them wewre only a part of something greater and not "laziness" or "bad writing."

Whatever they go with, as long as it is a satisfying ending, it will work for me, and the IT thread gives me the confidence in BW that will allow me to give them another chance, that's all.

Very true.  I'm pretty sure that, if IT does pan out, we will be caught by surprise somewhere.  Not to mention that IT has slight variations to it as well...

I also agree that having an open mind and not being religiously glued to IT is a healthy stance.  IT has a lot of fine points but if it is shown to be wrong then so be it

[KJSync]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Arashi08 wrote...

Do I detect a hint of condescension?

Not at all.

Believe me if I were being condescending you wouldn't need to ask.

I'm just genuinely curious as to what makes you (the remaining IT'rs) think that this is indeed how they'll play this out.

At this point every non satisfied fan is just scrambling for anything but the endings that we got. Wether its IT, victory through refusal, the Leviathan being a saving throw. Anything we can scrounge up even a halfway decent alternative is something people are jumping on.

I can see why of course. The endings as is are just that bad.

But IT seems like the least likely at this point.

Edit: And believe me I wish you were right regardless. I am one who still isn't satified with the endings so anything outside of Hacket turning out to be the reaper Doomsday device is good in my book.

Why does it matter?

As much as I like IT, I'm not married to the concept.  I just want a satisfying ending, which I'm pretty sure alot of people want on here too.  For me at least the speculations give us things to see things differently and communicate our thoughts on it.  Naturally it isn't going to answer every question, and even if BioWare did do something like this, we most likely will never be 100% correct. I see this thread as an avenue for looking at things differently and it also gives us hope that BioWare has something else planned, and the endongs as we got them wewre only a part of something greater and not "laziness" or "bad writing."

Whatever they go with, as long as it is a satisfying ending, it will work for me, and the IT thread gives me the confidence in BW that will allow me to give them another chance, that's all.

Very true.  I'm pretty sure that, if IT does pan out, we will be caught by surprise somewhere.  Not to mention that IT has slight variations to it as well...

I also agree that having an open mind and not being religiously glued to IT is a healthy stance.  IT has a lot of fine points but if it is shown to be wrong then so be it

I agree with you,being a IT zealot or any zealot isn't a healthy stance,that's why we discuss and sometimes dismiss a possible clue.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

So, today's RvB was all about the Higgs Boson, but all I learned was that the Higgs Bison is one of the friendliest species of water buffalo.

Water bison powers, ACTIVATE!

(If you arent a sponsor, that joke will make sense in about 2 hours. If you watch RvB that is. If not, it will never make sense.)

No.

I always give my impression of the latest RvB episode in the thread Megumi. Dont act surprised.

Yes. [/Sten]

[Dam0299]

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

billzo wrote...

Interesting point: Your choice at the Crucible is not saved. How on earth are we going to import our choice to ME 4 (assuming there is one)?

It wouldn't be a problem for PC users since they would still have their ME3 saves on their harddrive when they play ME4, but for the console gamers they might be screwed if ME4 is brought to the next Generation of consoles.

Not necessarily, When the Xbox 360 was upgraded to the new slim edition, the hard drive was fixed in place and without memory card ports. However with a Memory cable (cant remember exact name), you were able to transfer your Original xbox profile, along with all savegames and xbox live account onto the newer console. It would be at least possible IMO to be able to do a similar thing for the next generation console.