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Estebanus you said a while back (pax I think) that Jessica Merizan said to you that synthesis would become canon. She just locked down a thread regarding what you said, vehemently denying having ever said anything like it. Now we all know to take what Jessica says with a heap of salt, but she seemed personally insulted with it.
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
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byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
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#42577
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:06
CmdrShep80
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+1 to doom's methods of at least getting the quotes we use here in an easily accessible location that so far is easy to find. Keep in mind we go through at least 20-30 pages a day, 140-210 pages a week, 560-840 pages a month, and 6,720-10,080 pages a year. Sooo this post I write today with this quote:
"+1 Doom"
Will be lost by next year. Speaking of lost things. The beacon on mars had the same problem. In real life there are tons of scientific discoveries that become lost in the drawers or storage boxes of people. Just look up any rediscovered artifacts and you'll find a trove of lost things that we once discovered.
So it's perfectly possible the mars beacon was tabled or put aside over some other discovery that was given importance. No one thought of it till someone went back and reviewed records or was cleaning out the storage room for more space.
Don't forget we play as Shepard so Shepard (and us) see things like Prothean beacons every day while the average scientist is working on something else
"+1 Doom"
Will be lost by next year. Speaking of lost things. The beacon on mars had the same problem. In real life there are tons of scientific discoveries that become lost in the drawers or storage boxes of people. Just look up any rediscovered artifacts and you'll find a trove of lost things that we once discovered.
So it's perfectly possible the mars beacon was tabled or put aside over some other discovery that was given importance. No one thought of it till someone went back and reviewed records or was cleaning out the storage room for more space.
Don't forget we play as Shepard so Shepard (and us) see things like Prothean beacons every day while the average scientist is working on something else
Modifié par CmdrShep80, 02 novembre 2012 - 06:07 .
#42578
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:06
demersel
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I played mostly renegade in ME3 - but only because paragon options seemed to naive for me in context of ME3. I picked destroy, and have absolutely no problem with IT, and i think that ME3's writing is brilliant - while being sometimes blunt - it is done on purpose - and overall story is much deeper and engaging than say in ME2.
#42580
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:08
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Bill Casey wrote...
Then noone would be indoctrinated...Lazengan wrote...
Okay, so what's stopping Bioware from admitting the canonicity of IT
Such great writing should not be misunderstood or rewarded rite?
Actually, looking at the trends, it seems that a large number of people FIRST picked Synthesis, but now, we can safely assume that at least 60-70% of player generally pick Destroy.
Over time, people are 'waking up' (to even a small extent, ha, like Shepard..) and saying "No, screw this, I came to destroy the Reapers."
Sure, 10-20% may pick Control as their full ending, and 10-20% may pick Synthesis, but that's a far cry from before.
I think once its clear in ME3's online metrics (they track what people pick..) that almost all players picked Destroy at some point as a main choice, that's when the reveal will happen.
It's not false hope either - if this trend continues, I'm quite sure we'll have confirmation by March-April... right on time, actually.
#42581
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:10
estebanus
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You mean Games Com. I said that that's what she'd like to see. I wasn't even on here at that point. It was my sister, remember? She probably misunderstood what I told her over the phone.spotlessvoid wrote...
Estebanus you said a while back (pax I think) that Jessica Merizan said to you that synthesis would become canon. She just locked down a thread regarding what you said, vehemently denying having ever said anything like it. Now we all know to take what Jessica says with a heap of salt, but she seemed personally insulted with it.
#42582
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:10
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Rifneno wrote...
byne wrote...
So, I'm bored and replaying ME3. Why are there like 5 gifts available in the hospital if Ash is alive and only one for Kaidan?
You can only give each of them one gift anyways, so whats the point in having so many for Ash?
There's only one "right" gift for Ashhole. One of the poetry ones, a collectable reprint I think. If you didn't romance her in 1, the only way you can in 3 is if you pick the right gift. Kaiden only gets one because, let's face it, men are easy.
My Kaiden was always Shep-sexual.
#42583
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:11
MegumiAzusa
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No it does not. It only shows that all 3 outcomes can be bad.DoomsdayDevice wrote...
If quotes from Project Overlord illustrate how someone committed to synthesis in an effort to control the Geth, in order to avoid a destructive war (a "victory without casualties"), and that person ended up being enslaved by the machine instead of the other way round, then I'd say, yes, these quotes support IT.
Because IT believes the endings aren't to be taken at face value. Most of us think the scenarios for control and synthesis aren't quite like how they are depicted in game.
Anyway, I'm off for now.
TTYL guys, and thanks for the support, everybody.
Destroy with many casualties.
Control which was subverted and backfired.
Synthesis which also backfired as the machine again took control over his mind.
though the last two are related.
It does add nothing to indoctrination.
#42584
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:11
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spotlessvoid wrote...
Bethesda...
It's important,
not for ITs sake, but because foreshadowing against control and
synthesis is relevant to all interpretations. It's as much a part of IT
as the hallucination, but it's useful to also present it separately
Doomsday is fully aware of the difference between foreshadowing of the
it hallucination and foreshadowing against control and synthesis. I know
this for a fact because it's he and Simon Says that made a point to
differentiate the two quite a while back. I specifically remember
because the three of us got into a lengthy discussion on the difference
between the hallucination narrative device and the pro destroy thematic
elements.
A little differentiation wouldn't hurt I suppose.
#42585
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:17
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masster blaster wrote...
Restrider wrote...
So Rif, you agree with me that Kaidan > Ash?
Hey I like Ash, and as for Kadin he is just boring, I mean he is not really Shepard's bro, that's Garrus, and Wrex. Also Kadin is more depressed, were as Ash she is what I would expect for a real soldier to act. people just hate Ash because of ME1, but really changed over time. Also people hate Ash because she doesn't trust Shepard, and I can't blame here.
We came back from the DEAD, and Shepard acted like nothing happened, but two years. It's like if a soldier goes missing for about two years, and comes back home to be welcomed back at his home with open arms. You don't think a person would hate you, and just be over welmed with joy/anger.
Heck she is the only one that really question Shepard. If Shepard was Indoctrinated in Synthesis, and Control which he/she is, I know she can kill my Shepard, and she has good morals.
I find the VS, if you treat them well, would be exactly the kind of character Shepard NEEDS if they get indoctrinated, or are struggling with anything of that nature.
People missed that the Horizon stuff in ME2 was just part of a larger character arc, and that the VS is actually meant to be a *moral compass*. Yes, Ashley is more Renegade and Kaiden is more Paragon, but they're all about trying to be good people and do the right thing, even if it can be partially misguided.
Everything about Shepard joining Cerberus WAS suspicious, and:
-Liara doesn't care as much because she was directly involved with it happening (comics)
-Wrex doesn't care because he's Krogan-centric in his priorities
-Garrus doesn't care about it because he's more of your 'personal bro' rather than close friend (as in, he won't question you like a real best friend might, but he'll be right by your side regardless of your choices)
-Tali DOES care but it is overruled by her witnessing you take charge of things
But VS? Yeah, I can get them caring. For Ashley, Cerberus is pretty much all she tries to deny about herself (not saying she's racist, but she is more human centric, yet barely as much after ME1's events), and for Kaiden, its all he stands against.
A point the series tries to tell us is that sometimes you need certain people objecting to what you're doing. If you're not questioning yourself on something, you ought to have a close ally at least doing it for you.
Put into the context of IT, it very much makes sense to have a friendly character who will oppose you if you get out of line, or go nutso.
#42586
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:17
ThisOneIsPunny
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Sounds like a reunion. Someone should probably tell bioware to fill the punch bowl with water so as to not further disgruntle the group in the corner vigorously abhoring everything about the series. Maybe offer them some cookies with a twelve foot pole..SwobyJ wrote...
Bill Casey wrote...
Then noone would be indoctrinated...Lazengan wrote...
Okay, so what's stopping Bioware from admitting the canonicity of IT
Such great writing should not be misunderstood or rewarded rite?
Actually, looking at the trends, it seems that a large number of people FIRST picked Synthesis, but now, we can safely assume that at least 60-70% of player generally pick Destroy.
Over time, people are 'waking up' (to even a small extent, ha, like Shepard..) and saying "No, screw this, I came to destroy the Reapers."
Sure, 10-20% may pick Control as their full ending, and 10-20% may pick Synthesis, but that's a far cry from before.
I think once its clear in ME3's online metrics (they track what people pick..) that almost all players picked Destroy at some point as a main choice, that's when the reveal will happen.
It's not false hope either - if this trend continues, I'm quite sure we'll have confirmation by March-April... right on time, actually.
#42587
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:21
masster blaster
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Guys what Saren said in the trailer was just awsome. Really what Bioware did was just epic. I am buying it because dam it. " Everyone you ever cared everyone you ever love will all die." The endings people.
Also I will show you true power.
Also I will show you true power.
#42588
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:21
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401 Kill wrote...
Am I the only one who actually likes Kaidan? Though I must admit, it probobly is because every time I hear Kaidan it reminds me of the good old days with Carth and Bastilla. I really like the VA for them.
I have my issues with Kaiden, but by now I quite like him.
"..yeah but sometimes the way a thing does down does matter, Shepard. Later when you have to live with yourself, knowing that you acted with integrity. That it matters." ....
#42589
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:24
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Restrider wrote...
No, you are not alone. I can see where all the Jacob bashes comes from, and I agree.401 Kill wrote...
Am I the only one who actually likes Kaidan? Though I must admit, it probobly is because every time I hear Kaidan it reminds me of the good old days with Carth and Bastilla. I really like the VA for them.
But I think the whole Kaidan bashing is exaggerated. It is reasonable that the aliens are more interesting, but Kaidan's character is quite good, imho.
Edit: I am having a field day...
Jacob is mostly the worst ME henchman.
His only bright spots are:
-His story with his father feels like good forshadowing for the narrative
-He is a good illustration of those in the galaxy that still just want to live a good, fulfilling, and safe life. Sometimes, wow, that's not with Shepard! (surprise!)
He seems like he wouldn't be that bad of a supporting character, but he never should have been a squadmate if this is how they were going to write and treat him.
#42590
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:25
Humakt83
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Interesting, Geth & Reaper technology combined?
#42591
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:27
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
Wow the reapers are trolls. I must have missed that. LOL indeed. Benevolent? Innocent? Sure...Rifneno wrote...
LOL.
"During the Reaper invasion in 2186, Taetrus is one of the first worlds the Reapers attack following their conquest of Khar'shan and Earth. The Turian Hierarchy made two attempts to enter the Mactare system via mass relay to liberate Taetrus, but were unsuccessful. As the Reapers began to pour into the Trebia system and assault Palaven, they broadcasted images of Vallum, again destroyed, to the turian comm buoy network."
That is some epic trolling right there.
They're evil and the Intellignce/'Catalyst' is Harbinger or at least an evil Reaper presence. I'm ...99%(?) sure of this by now.
#42592
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:31
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Argolas wrote...
Hi guys, what do you think of those Lyrics?
Follow your common sense
You cannot hide yourself
behind a fairytale forever and ever
Only by revealing the hole truth can we disclose
The soul of this bulwark forever and ever
Forever and ever
Indoctrinated minds so very often
Contain sick thoughts
And commit most of the evil they preach against
Don't try to convince me with messages from God
You accuse us of sins committed by yourselves
It's easy to condemn without looking in the mirror
Behind the scenes opens reality
Eternal silence cries out for justice
Forgiveness is not for sale
Nor is the will to forget
Virginity has been stolen at very young ages
And the extinguisher loses it's immunity
Morbid abuse of power in the garden of eden
Where the apple gets a youthful face
You can't go on hiding yourself
Behind old fashioned fairytales
And keep washing your hands in innocence
Honestly, the ME3 ending feels like a mish mash of literally several dozen forms of art (music, visuals, storylines).
And the more I think about it, the more I respect it. Of course, this depends on some form of IT being real, haha.
#42593
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:31
MaximizedAction
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SwobyJ wrote...
They're evil and the Intellignce/'Catalyst' is Harbinger or at least an evil Reaper presence. I'm ...99%(?) sure of this by now.
Been sure about that since the EC. The sad, twisted, perverted and yet brilliant part, that comes by concept of the Reapers and the choice chamber, it simply doesn't matter at the end of ME3 what you think of the Guardian...but only by design. It is a forced choice that isn't really one. It's a lab experiment.
Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 novembre 2012 - 06:34 .
#42594
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:35
MegumiAzusa
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Still wondering why Aequitas is blinking in ME3. Also notice how they are downscaled ships. The same you have at the beam in London which are Reapers, and downscaled Reapers and other stuff.Humakt83 wrote...
Interesting, Geth & Reaper technology combined?
#42595
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:38
MegumiAzusa
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Control the media, control the mind.SwobyJ wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Wow the reapers are trolls. I must have missed that. LOL indeed. Benevolent? Innocent? Sure...Rifneno wrote...
LOL.
"During the Reaper invasion in 2186, Taetrus is one of the first worlds the Reapers attack following their conquest of Khar'shan and Earth. The Turian Hierarchy made two attempts to enter the Mactare system via mass relay to liberate Taetrus, but were unsuccessful. As the Reapers began to pour into the Trebia system and assault Palaven, they broadcasted images of Vallum, again destroyed, to the turian comm buoy network."
That is some epic trolling right there.
They're evil and the Intellignce/'Catalyst' is Harbinger or at least an evil Reaper presence. I'm ...99%(?) sure of this by now.
#42596
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:39
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Andromidius wrote...
When talking to Joker after Sur'kesh, he mentions being more comfortable with making plans involving time travel or teaching the Reapers to love then allying with the Krogan.
Well, he was half right...
That being said, I still think having the Crucible turn into a time machine that acts as a Relay point to drag previous species to the present would be kinda cool. Though a little corny seeing the Protheans and dozens of other species suddenly arrive to carry the day against the Reapers.
But hey, it would certainly make the galaxy a more interesting place. Especially if the reinforcement species didn't get on with each other (i.e. Protheans deciding to restart their empire...).
Wow.
WOW..
I did have stray thoughts that time travel WOULD be involved, as information about dark energy seems to have that implication. (a lot of space-time stuff...)
Oh and by the way, remember there are hints (I think in the galaxy map) about Kar'Shan that if the Reapers do get kicked off the planet, the surviving batarians might be a lot more friendly to others in the future. Would be cool to see a relatively peaceful Batarian society and government in a future Mass Effect game...
TBH this would be a fantastic way to end the trilogy, while keeping Mass Effect intact. It would severely damage the Reapers, yet open things up to a much larger and more interesting war. Sorry, I keep trying to tie this to my pet theory of ME4 happening and focusing on the larger war and mysteries of the galaxy/universe, than on Shepard's story.
Using the Cycles against Harbinger.... Wow.....
And while it feels a bit weird still, a time travel element would still be less space magic than Synthesis, and it would also involve *winning by conventional means* in the longer run.
#42597
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:43
spotlessvoid
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No thanks to time travel, personally
#42598
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:45
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Rifneno wrote...
demersel wrote...
And of course there is a thing that garrus represents paragon, and wrex represents renegade.
I don't see how. Garrus is an awesome guy, don't get me wrong, but he's pretty much the perfect example of how you can be renegade and still be a good guy. He quit C-sec because he hates going by the book, he set up shop in Omega and started murdering the **** out of evil scumbags of his own accord. Paragon always tries for the peaceful solution and is generally Lawful-Stupid. Lawful-Stupid Shepard can even admonish Garrus for being a vigilante.
And Wrex... he's not the traditional paragon, but what he's doing with the krogan is as close as you can get to paragon with the krogan.
I actually see Garrus as Paragade - he wants to be a Paragon but struggles with Renegade instincts and reasoning. (he doesn't want to be a vigilante, but he wants to help the poor of Omega. He doesn't want to kill Sidonus, but keeps feeling it is necessary)
I see Wrex as Renegon. He is more typically Renegade in personality and methods, but he is that 'weird' type of rare krogan that sees the bigger picture and what might be seen as Paragon instincts and reasoning.
#42599
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:46
Eryri
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@ Doomsdaydevice - I'm sorry if my post suggesting adding control and synthesis quotes to your comparison came off as a criticism. I realise it's a huge amount of work going through 80+ hours of game content and I applaud your efforts.
On another topic, I notice from the Bioware Blog that the PS3 version of the trilogy pack will have ME3 "exactly as it originally shipped".
Presumably this means no Extended Cut. Odd considering the amount of spare space on a Blu-Ray disk, you'd think they'd throw it in as it's a free download. Do you think this suggests that Bioware consider the original version to be the canon one?
If there is a hypothetical IT dlc where Shep wakes up in london, that would render the ridiculous Normandy evac scene and the slideshows superfluous. Also the new conversation with the Bratalyst is included in Leviathan, just in case you don't have the EC.
Perhaps the EC really was just to buy time and will be unecessary when the dlc cycle is complete?
On another topic, I notice from the Bioware Blog that the PS3 version of the trilogy pack will have ME3 "exactly as it originally shipped".
Presumably this means no Extended Cut. Odd considering the amount of spare space on a Blu-Ray disk, you'd think they'd throw it in as it's a free download. Do you think this suggests that Bioware consider the original version to be the canon one?
If there is a hypothetical IT dlc where Shep wakes up in london, that would render the ridiculous Normandy evac scene and the slideshows superfluous. Also the new conversation with the Bratalyst is included in Leviathan, just in case you don't have the EC.
Perhaps the EC really was just to buy time and will be unecessary when the dlc cycle is complete?
Modifié par Eryri, 02 novembre 2012 - 07:01 .
#42600
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:48
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MegumiAzusa wrote...
So that would make Samara 100% renegade?leonia42 wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
demersel wrote...
And of course there is a thing that garrus represents paragon, and wrex represents renegade.
I don't see how. Garrus is an awesome guy, don't get me wrong, but he's pretty much the perfect example of how you can be renegade and still be a good guy. He quit C-sec because he hates going by the book, he set up shop in Omega and started murdering the **** out of evil scumbags of his own accord. Paragon always tries for the peaceful solution and is generally Lawful-Stupid. Lawful-Stupid Shepard can even admonish Garrus for being a vigilante.
And Wrex... he's not the traditional paragon, but what he's doing with the krogan is as close as you can get to paragon with the krogan.
My thoughts exactly. But to be fair, blue has always been more of Garrus' colour and red is more Wrex. Maybe it has nothing to do with symoblism at all.
It's a great piece of art though it's odd that the Reapers aren't heavily portrayed. Cool to see Saren in some new artwork though. Overall it reminds me of the traditional Star Wars movie posters, which didn't have too much overt symbolism going on either.
I think Samara is 100% renegade and it is only her culture's more aesthetic approach along with her love for her daughters that allow you to barely convince her away from pure Renegade.
A paragon has to continually intervene in order to get her to leave the narrative with her one daughter and her own life intact. That's how strong her Renegade is.
