80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

Home run MF wrote...

Restrider wrote...

On similar topic:
Can the Refuse ending be saved as the "Legacy Save"?

You might like this article. 

Thanks for the link.

Interesting article, some errors, but it would be overall an interesting idea.

[CmdrShep80]

Rifneno wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, I have an idea regarding that polls for paragon/renegade on each character...
For each character a specific poll with more paragon and more renegade as the options as well as a neutral option (and the obligatory "I don't care, screw you!" option).
The bars in that poll would then represent their character alignment, such as in ME1/2/3 with Shepard.
Considering the amount of squadmates and other important characters, I will do that in a seperate thread. So, stay tuned.
But I am going off now.
What do you think of that idea?

I'm interested to see how BSN will twist "was Thane paragon or renegade" into "tell me how much you hate the ending".  I look forward to seeing this.

+1 from me. Just let me know and I'll vote. Ooo this will be fun deciding the fate of each character's alignment

[BatmanTurian]

You know, I hate to get preachy, but honestly we get enough flack from other people outside this thread. We don't need to be attacking each other over things that are minor. If you believe those things are not important and you are in the minority, it's probably better just to say your piece and then let it go.

I support DD and Restrider's efforts, though I don't have much to add. They and others, like Parabolee and Hellishfied, etc. have done a lot to help us sift through and organize data. Instead of arguing over how to do it, we should at least collect the information and then organize it as we see fit. Not doing it at all undermines the purpose of showing that IT has a grounding in the narrative. Also, anything that supports Destroy does support IT. They can be separated, but there is no breath scene and no breaking the process of Indoctrination without High EMS Destroy. So no offense Megumi and Estebanus, but you guys are out of line and just plain wrong. To specify, that statement is not an attack on the two of you, but simply a logical conclusion.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 02 novembre 2012 - 11:23 .

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

You know, I hate to get preachy, but honestly we get enough flack from other people outside this thread. We don't need to be attacking each other over things that are minor.

*spits on the ground and rolls up sleeve*  THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

You know, I hate to get preachy, but honestly we get enough flack from other people outside this thread. We don't need to be attacking each other over things that are minor.

*spits on the ground and rolls up sleeve*  THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!

Some days it feels like that in here.

[ZerebusPrime]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Maybe Samara doesn't want a romance because, ya'know, all her previous children turned out to be space vampires.

:lol:Yeah, that thought is kind of a passion killer.

Woot? Who wouldn't want to make out with a hot space vampire?

No thanks, I saw Life Force.

[masster blaster]

I agree batman Meg, and Estebauns did over react, and that is one of the things people hate IT because of the people behind it. I mean the ones that are in this thread, their are some people that attack others and call them stupid/trolls. We lable them quick, and yes their are some, but we need to do a better job at that.

Meg if DD was a new comer and he presented this what would you tell DD, and Estebauns you to. Some of use over react I included.

That's why again I am doing a list why people hate IT.

1 one thing that people say they hate IT it's because it's us that lable them names and call them stupid.

Again yes some are, but some aren't.

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Okay, I have an idea regarding that polls for paragon/renegade on each character...
For each character a specific poll with more paragon and more renegade as the options as well as a neutral option (and the obligatory "I don't care, screw you!" option).
The bars in that poll would then represent their character alignment, such as in ME1/2/3 with Shepard.
Considering the amount of squadmates and other important characters, I will do that in a seperate thread. So, stay tuned.
But I am going off now.
What do you think of that idea?

I'm interested to see how BSN will twist "was Thane paragon or renegade" into "tell me how much you hate the ending".  I look forward to seeing this.

Don't.

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Also, anything that supports Destroy does support IT. They can be separated, but there is no breath scene and no breaking the process of Indoctrination without High EMS Destroy. So no offense Megumi and Estebanus, but you guys are out of line and just plain wrong. To specify, that statement is not an attack on the two of you, but simply a logical conclusion.

It is not. Statements that infer destroy have absolutely no baring on indoctrination or the breath scene. It is not logical, not even expected by Shepard and others that they will live at the end even if they manage to destroy the Reapers.
From a perspective from someone who doesn't believe in IT I would point and laugh, then turn around and let the lunacy behind.

Maybe harsh wording but no personal attack is intended.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 02 novembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

I agree batman Meg, and Estebauns did over react, and that is one of the things people hate IT because of the people behind it. I mean the ones that are in this thread, their are some people that attack others and call them stupid/trolls. We lable them quick, and yes their are some, but we need to do a better job at that.

Meg if DD was a new comer and he presented this what would you tell DD, and Estebauns you to. Some of use over react I included.

I have nothing against the idea of making a list of quotes that support IT, but I do have something against people taking quotes that have nothing whatsoever to do with indoctrination, and then say that it helps the theory. That's exactly that what puts people off the theory, IMO.

[MegumiAzusa]

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Also, anything that supports Destroy does support IT. They can be separated, but there is no breath scene and no breaking the process of Indoctrination without High EMS Destroy. So no offense Megumi and Estebanus, but you guys are out of line and just plain wrong. To specify, that statement is not an attack on the two of you, but simply a logical conclusion.

It is not. Statements that infer destroy have absolutely no baring on indoctrination or the breath scene. It is not logical, not even expected by Shepard and others that they will live at the end even if they manage to destroy the Reapers.
From a perspective from someone who doesn't believe in IT I would point and laugh, then turn around and let the lunacy behind.

That is highly illogical.

People argued the Guardian acts illogical before EC while arguing with morality and said it was better with the EC which introduced faults in its logic in the first place and you want to talk logic?
*** please.

[estebanus]

BatmanTurian wrote...

You know, I hate to get preachy, but honestly we get enough flack from other people outside this thread. We don't need to be attacking each other over things that are minor. If you believe those things are not important and you are in the minority, it's probably better just to say your piece and then let it go.

I support DD and Restrider's efforts, though I don't have much to add. They and others, like Parabolee and Hellishfied, etc. have done a lot to help us sift through and organize data. Instead of arguing over how to do it, we should at least collect the information and then organize it as we see fit. Not doing it at all undermines the purpose of showing that IT has a grounding in the narrative. Also, anything that supports Destroy does support IT. They can be separated, but there is no breath scene and no breaking the process of Indoctrination without High EMS Destroy. So no offense Megumi and Estebanus, but you guys are out of line and just plain wrong. To specify, that statement is not an attack on the two of you, but simply a logical conclusion.

Yes well, I disagree and think that you're wrong. Look, almost all 3 games heavily foreshadow that you have to destroy the reapers, but it was never in any context with indoctrination, as far as I recall. If a quote is there to support the IT then It'd have to be something that can be compared to indoctrination in some way. Shepard saying to Harbinger that they'll fight the reapers till the end does not validate the theory.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

I have no idea what the big issue is anymore but conflict is a natural phenomenon and I'm going to respond to this conflict by avoiding it. Right now.

[demersel]

So i read this article in Forbes - it really boggles me, how can such a thing be an actual article in an actual journal, and quite famous one at that.... It really is the level of justifieng rumblings of a BSN user. Like the thing you can read in here in Synthesis thread. Or Refuse support thread.... This is a really depressing thing....

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...
I have nothing against the idea of making a list of quotes that support IT, but I do have something against people taking quotes that have nothing whatsoever to do with indoctrination, and then say that it helps the theory. That's exactly that what puts people off the theory, IMO.

I am disappoint Estebanus. Blur already explained this to you.

Doomsday is trying to compile a list that helps with the former. If you fully understand those things, the logical place it takes you is that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you at the end. So, while the quotes don't directly support IT, they are what makes the universe and themes, and that is the most important supporting aspect of IT.

Besides, I think the list is in the IT group so...

[Rifneno]

demersel wrote...

So i read this article in Forbes - it really boggles me, how can such a thing be an actual article in an actual journal, and quite famous one at that.... It really is the level of justifieng rumblings of a BSN user. Like the thing you can read in here in Synthesis thread. Or Refuse support thread.... This is a really depressing thing....

Does it beat this CNN article by a Yale law professor talking about fixing the economy by minting some trillion dollar coins?

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

Yes well, I disagree and think that you're wrong. Look, almost all 3 games heavily foreshadow that you have to destroy the reapers, but it was never in any context with indoctrination, as far as I recall. If a quote is there to support the IT then It'd have to be something that can be compared to indoctrination in some way. Shepard saying to Harbinger that they'll fight the reapers till the end does not validate the theory.

Well, actually they do relate to indoctrination. Pretty much all of them. Not a hallucination, but it basically goes like this:

Enemies want control/synthesis. They're indoctrinated.
Allies want destroy. They're not indoctrinated.

How does that not support IT?

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Also, anything that supports Destroy does support IT. They can be separated, but there is no breath scene and no breaking the process of Indoctrination without High EMS Destroy. So no offense Megumi and Estebanus, but you guys are out of line and just plain wrong. To specify, that statement is not an attack on the two of you, but simply a logical conclusion.

It is not. Statements that infer destroy have absolutely no baring on indoctrination or the breath scene. It is not logical, not even expected by Shepard and others that they will live at the end even if they manage to destroy the Reapers.
From a perspective from someone who doesn't believe in IT I would point and laugh, then turn around and let the lunacy behind.

Maybe harsh wording but no personal attack is intended.

Yeah, sorry. Core of IT says High EMS Destroy is shepard waking up from an indoctrination-induced dream state controlled by Harbinger, therefore anything supporting destroy is IT-related and supports it.

[Davik Kang]

demersel wrote...
So i read this article in Forbes - it really boggles me, how can such a thing be an actual article in an actual journal, and quite famous one at that.... It really is the level of justifieng rumblings of a BSN user. Like the thing you can read in here in Synthesis thread. Or Refuse support thread.... This is a really depressing thing....

Well here's an opposite view

MyChemicalBromance wrote...
http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is pro-Synthesis though, and doesn't mention the indoctrination point.  It is more complimentary of the way ME handles the nihilistic themes of the story.  Still, I like the way he's willing to embrace the work as it is without having to justify it using interpretations of the in-game events.

About the quote collection argument... I'm not the best person to be trying to play peacemaker after my earlier rant... will just say that everybody in here will inevitably disagree on the relative merits/usefulness of any given quote, or any other piece of in-game evidence, with regard to IT... but collecting these things really can only be a productive exercise, and if it is categorised according to what ideas are supported, it will be a pretty useful source for everybody, regardless of what they're trying to provide evidence for...

...in other words, opinions will differ on what is useful, but this doesn't matter... the collection of quotes is an exercise in finding factual data, and not in arguing over its validity... those arguments can come later, at an appropriate time... at this stage the process can only be productive really...

[demersel]

Rifneno - the only difference is that i don't care for the second one's topic at all. And I did know that all the economic "experts" really don't know anything - even south park covered that in the episode Margaritaville.