80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Rifneno wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

demersel wrote...

 I really fail to see the alledged force field and how even if it is present it helps Shepard survive...

Sup guys!! I see the sheild, but it is containing the explosion in this pic.  Notice that if you zoom in it looks like a nuke going off (originating from the beam) and that the wave is hitting the inside of the shield. 

 What happens next is that the force becomes too great for the shield and bursts it like a bubble thus exposing Shepard to space. Impossible to survive.

No known force field is powerful enough to withstand an explosion the size of the one we see there.  That's the size of a thermonuclear bomb.  Even Reapers are vulnerable to those.  That's why "the old nuclear missile silos" were first priority targets when they hit Earth.  Quantum shielding is capable of withstanding that kind of blast, but only the basic structure of the Citadel is quantum shielded, or could be quantum shielded.  QS isn't something that can be extended like a mass effect field.  Either an object is QSed, or it's not.  So unless this is a totally new technology, Shepard's beyond dead.

I cannot see how it hits the inside, if the explosion originates from outside. It's how sci-fi shields are displayed, you hit it at point X and area y around X lights up too.
Also the tower is still standing in the EC slides, which should be annihilated if the shield would have dropped.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 01:04 .

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

@Megumi

Do you have a particular interpretation you like at this point, or are you dissatisfied with what Bioware did?

I very much like the ambiguity BioWare created. I lean to IT but wont support any inconclusive "evidence" brought up by either side to support their cause. If something is inconclusive it supports neither but is simply ambiguous. Like the breath scene.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 01:07 .

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
I very much like the ambiguity BioWare created.

Yeah me too, I disagree with Control and Synthesis and I think they're traps, but I'd be disappointed if Bioware came out and said "LOL suckers!!".  Leaving the end open with room for debate is a really good thing imo.

Btw for anyone who cares and hasn't seen it/forgot about it/would like to see it again, here's the "plot ids" for the ending, plus a brief explanation (from somebody else - a long long time ago... in a galaxy far, far away...)

I was looking through some save game editing plot flags and noticed that the line for End001 (Destroy) is different than End002 and End003. Destroy Sets 3 PlotIDs for the future.Not only do Synth and Control not set 3Ids. They do not even set 1.[/i]

End001,
PlotIDSet=(20894,19290,19286),
PlotIDClear=(),
PlotInts = ( ) ID=10185,V=26),(ID=10303,V=25)),
PlotCond=())

End002,
PlotIDSet=(),
PlotIDClear=(),
PlotInts= ( ) ID=10202,V=21)),
PlotCond=())

End003,
PlotIDSet=(),
PlotIDClear=(),
PlotInts= ( ) ID=10203,V=22)),
PlotCond=())

I don't understand exactly how the game engine uses these PlotIDs, but from a layman’s point of view it looks like it's either;
Pick destroy, and have a future, or Synth/Control and not have a future.
Bioware does not even bother to track which one you picked if it wasn't destroy.
As far as they are concerned synthesis & control are the same thing. = Indoctrinated

[ Edited to remove the smiley faces and italic markers ]

Modifié par Davik Kang, 03 novembre 2012 - 01:09 .

[DarkMoon596]

Im sure the plot ID is script for whether or not it will show the Shepard breath scene.

[shepskisaac]

Davik Kang wrote...

Yeah, Control music does have a kind of "you picked the bad guy option" tone to it. I didn't bring this up because it's the kind of thing that would cause a pointless argument with any pro-Control player.

Everyone would agree the Control music is creepy. But then it transforms into something very warm, during the Normandy scene. In Paragon version, Shep is basically the ultimate hero who gave up his life for everyone else "the one who gave up his life... to save the many".

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

End001,
PlotIDSet=(20894,19290,19286),
PlotIDClear=(),
PlotInts = ( ) ID=10185,V=26),(ID=10303,V=25)),
PlotCond=())

These are set somewhere between Communications Hub and Sanctuary.
In my save without doing the Communications Hub I have
19286 true
19290 true
20894 false
and vice versa in the other one. Dunno if it's specifically that mission but I can say it's set around that point. No idea where it's used. But there is also a misconception here about End001. It is not Destroy nor Control nor Synthesis but the Fleets arriving at Earth/the London mission. End002 starts at the point where you get hit by Harbys beam. End003 is when you are picking your choice. End004 is the Stargazer scene.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 01:55 .

[Davik Kang]

DarkMoon596 wrote...
Im sure the plot ID is script for whether or not it will show the Shepard breath scene.

Good point, you could be right.  I guess it's not conclusive at all.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
These are set somewhere between Communications Hub and Sanctuary.
In my save without doing the Communications Hub I have
19286 true
19290 true
20894 false
and vice versa in the other one. Dunno if it's specifically that mission but I can say it's set around that point. No idea where it's used. But there is also a misconception here about End001. It is not Destroy nor Control nor Synthesis but the Fleets arriving at Earth/London. End002 starts at the point where you get hit by Harbys beam. End003 is when you are picking your choice.

Ah ok.  Do these truth values change again at any point maybe?  Or are they set in stone from that point onwards?

About End001-3, excellent spot, idea is debunked, good work, thanks.

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

DarkMoon596 wrote...
Im sure the plot ID is script for whether or not it will show the Shepard breath scene.

Good point, you could be right.  I guess it's not conclusive at all.

How easily people trust things "from a layman’s point of view" instead of doing some tiny bit of research...

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
These are set somewhere between Communications Hub and Sanctuary.
In my save without doing the Communications Hub I have
19286 true
19290 true
20894 false
and vice versa in the other one. Dunno if it's specifically that mission but I can say it's set around that point. No idea where it's used. But there is also a misconception here about End001. It is not Destroy nor Control nor Synthesis but the Fleets arriving at Earth/London. End002 starts at the point where you get hit by Harbys beam. End003 is when you are picking your choice.

Ah ok.  Do these truth values change again at any point maybe?  Or are they set in stone from that point onwards?

About End001-3, excellent spot, idea is debunked, good work, thanks.

All 3 are true from hitting Cerberus HQ until the very end. Also in the LegendSave. It all comes down to Cerberus.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:07 .

[Davik Kang]

IsaacShep wrote...
Everyone would agree the Control music is creepy. But then it transforms into something very warm, during the Normandy scene. In Paragon version, Shep is basically the ultimate hero who gave up his life for everyone else "the one who gave up his life... to save the many".

Sure but Normandy scene is not related to the fate of the galaxy, just the short-term fate of the Normandy.

Paragon and Renegade versions of Shepard just change the dialogue for Control but the result is basically the same.  The new AI may have different initial core values, but the nature of the ending isn't really different imo.

Also I think Control can only really be heroic in a low EMS situation, where you have a choice between Control and Destroy (Vaporise version).  Just my opinion, we don't have to agree of course.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:08 .

[shepskisaac]

Davik Kang wrote...

The new AI may have different initial core values, but the nature of the ending sin't really different imo.

If it has different core values then of course the nature of the ending changes because Shep-AI shapes it.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
All 3 are true from hitting London until the very end.

Ok.  I guess you are on PC version?  Do you know any other players who can compare their values having made different choices (e.g. different EMS values and or different Paragon/Renegade scores)?

They could relate to 

EMS score (affects final otions available)

Previous dialgue options with TIM (as this affects the possibility of P/R choices I believe)

Paragon/Renegade scores (affecting Control ending)

...as these all affect the ending in some way

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Everyone would agree the Control music is creepy. But then it transforms into something very warm, during the Normandy scene. In Paragon version, Shep is basically the ultimate hero who gave up his life for everyone else "the one who gave up his life... to save the many".

Sure but Normandy scene is not related to the fate of the galaxy, just the short-term fate of the Normandy.

Paragon and Renegade versions of Shepard just change the dialogue for Control but the result is basically the same.  The new AI may have different initial core values, but the nature of the ending isn't really different imo.

Also I think Control can only really be heroic in a low EMS situation, where you have a choice between Control and Destroy (Vaporise version).  Just my opinion, we don't have to agree of course.

iirc if you can choose it's "merely" Earth destroyed (in both cases) and not Earth Devastated.

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
All 3 are true from hitting London until the very end.

Ok.  I guess you are on PC version?  Do you know any other players who can compare their values having made different choices (e.g. different EMS values and or different Paragon/Renegade scores)?

They could relate to 

EMS score (affects final otions available)

Previous dialgue options with TIM (as this affects the possibility of P/R choices I believe)

Paragon/Renegade scores (affecting Control ending)

...as these all affect the ending in some way

Yes PC, and I also did a very low EMS playthrough (only Earth Devastated, was a real pain to play) and the values are always true.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:12 .

[Davik Kang]

IsaacShep wrote...
If it has different core values then of course the nature of the ending changes because Shep-AI shapes it.

Not necessarily.  We don't actually know what the Shepard-AI will do.  I can see why you would disagree but it is open to opinion.  For me a galactic overlord machine is a galactic overlord machine.  I couldn't bring myself to pick an option like this no matter what choices I had made beforehand.

Let's not get into a big argument about this.  You think the nature of the ending changes because you think Shepard can control the Reapers with good consequences.  I think the opposite because I don't think Shepard can do any such thing.  There isn't much debate to be had because we won't be able to convince each other.  It will just turn into another ending ethics debate.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
If it has different core values then of course the nature of the ending changes because Shep-AI shapes it.

Not necessarily.  We don't actually know what the Shepard-AI will do.  I can see why you would disagree but it is open to opinion.  For me a galactic overlord machine is a galactic overlord machine.  I couldn't bring myself to pick an option like this no matter what choices I had made beforehand.

Let's not get into a big argument abvout this.  You think the nature of the ending changes because you think Shepard can control the Reapers with good consequences.  I think the opposite because I don't think Shepard can do any such thing.  There isn't much debate to be had because we won't be able to convince each other.  It will just turn into another ending ethics debate.

If my Shep would be Renegade there wouldn't be any Batarians left :3

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
iirc if you can choose it's "merely" Earth destroyed (in both cases) and not Earth Devastated.

Really?!?!?!?  This is pretty crucial (from a personal perspective, sorry if I'm boring you).  I still haven't found a mid-EMS ending video.  Do you know of any?

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
iirc if you can choose it's "merely" Earth destroyed (in both cases) and not Earth Devastated.

Really?!?!?!?  This is pretty crucial (from a personal perspective, sorry if I'm boring you).  I still haven't found a mid-EMS ending video.  Do you know of any?

Sorry was wrong, just checked IGN there are some overlaps. Keep in mind these are the old values. I don't know how they are scaling now.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Davik Kang]

Yeah I checked various sources but all seem to point (incl. post EC values) to a situation where

If ME2 - Destroy base, then

EMS = 1750-2049
will result in the situation I described.

If ME2 - Preserve base, then
EMS = 1750-2049 or 1750-2349 would create the same situation, depending on how the Destroy endings are affected by EMS in this case.

So there is overlap as you say, though it is in specific Mid-EMS situations.

[Davik Kang]

[ wtf random quote, I was trying to edit a typo in another post...   dp sorry ]

Modifié par Davik Kang, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[masster blaster]

Issac Shepard means the Reapers. Nazar or Sovgiern : We are many. Our numbers will darken the skys of every world.

Shepard is going to watch over the Reapers, not the organics, and Synthetics.

Modifié par masster blaster, 03 novembre 2012 - 02:31 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

[ wtf random quote, I was trying to edit a typo in another post...   dp sorry ]

That was not the Batarian post you were looking for.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was not the Batarian post you were looking for.

That was not the Batarian I mean post I was looking for

*Wanders away, eyes blinking, in a confused stupor*

[masster blaster]

Everyone remember how in ME2 we had to buy assets for the Normandy and buy weapons for your squad members/ your Shepard then everything goes great, and everyone lives. Yet if you don't get all the assets or not all of the, then people will die, and mabey your Shepard.

Now if you look at ME3, as we gather our assets across the galaxy, things look great. We have a lot of assets, and our readyness is 100% and we can go to Earth and stand a chance, yet... If we don't have enough assets, or readyness is 50% a lot of people will die, and we get the low endings, unless you some how have loads of War Assets and have 50%.

Now think about how ME2 ended. When Shepard ask did the ground team make it, if you didn't do the loyat mission of your squad they die/ deepending on how you upgraded their weapons/sheilds too.

Now again if you build upgrade your Normandy/ upgrade everything/do loyat mission everything will be find and you will unlock the best ending. Everyone lives.


Now everytime in ME3 and ending unlocks do to our war assets/ Galatic readiness. Now Synthesis isn't the best ending nor is Control, or refuse. It is Destroy, the Reason I say this is beacuse of the Breath scene. It takes more assets for Shepard to live, but why is it that.

Assets shouldn't even unlock the beath scene, unless that's Shepard's willpower.

Think about this if Anderson died you can't unlock Shepard's breath scene. ( I mean if TIM shot Anderson) Now if you have more assets and Anderson dies, then you can unlock the breath scene.

Hello people it's all about will power. Galatic readiness is Shepards readiness. The War Assets is Shepard's willpower.