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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
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byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
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#43027
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 08:58
Fingertrip
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I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
#43028
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 08:59
gunslinger_ruiz
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Followup to my previous post:
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 03 novembre 2012 - 08:59 .
#43029
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:00
BansheeOwnage
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Thanks for stopping by! We'll see you next month when you come in here and say the exact same thing with nothing to back it up!Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
#43030
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:03
BatmanTurian
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Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
You come in here on a regular basis saying this with nothing to back it up. Troll somewhere else.
#43031
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:03
BatmanTurian
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BansheeOwnage wrote...
Thanks for stopping by! We'll see you next month when you come in here and say the exact same thing with nothing to back it up!Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
hivemind and
'd
#43032
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:04
BatmanTurian
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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Followup to my previous post:
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
It could just mean their children are now adults and so their welfare does not have to be considered?
#43033
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:06
Humakt83
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I think "Beings of Light" has some merit. I'm at Derelict Reaper and there are interesting lightspheres. Also the insides (some areas) of Reaper looks like a skeleton of some sort.
And there's a ringing noise. Similar what you hear at the end of Mass Effect 3....
And there's a ringing noise. Similar what you hear at the end of Mass Effect 3....
Modifié par Humakt83, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:07 .
#43034
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:06
Home run MF
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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Followup to my previous post:
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
Yes, I remember that too. And Anderson spoilers ahead they do not go back together, in fact Anderson is more interested in Kahlee Sanders.
It could be they remained friends after the divorce and that Henry is her actual husband.
#43035
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:08
gunslinger_ruiz
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BatmanTurian wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Followup to my previous post:
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
It could just mean their children are now adults and so their welfare does not have to be considered?
If that was the case wouldn't it say. "but just be glad your children are adults." instead? The writing seems clear on this part, to me at least.
#43036
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:10
Humakt83
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Regarding Delerict Reaper, there are whisper-like sounds emitting from the spheres of light.
#43037
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:10
BansheeOwnage
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BatmanTurian wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Thanks for stopping by! We'll see you next month when you come in here and say the exact same thing with nothing to back it up!Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
hivemind and
We are all geth.
#43038
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:10
gunslinger_ruiz
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Home run MF wrote...
Yes, I remember that too. And Anderson spoilers ahead they do not go back together, in fact Anderson is more interested in Kahlee Sanders.
It could be they remained friends after the divorce and that Henry is her actual husband.
A-ha, good point, and Jason could be Henry and Cynthia's son. That would make a bit more sense with the lore.
#43039
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:11
BatmanTurian
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I know, I'm just trying to think of a rational explanation for why Mac would forget that Anderson has kids. I can't think of any that make sense, so the logical conclusion is that this cut scene would have been the crack in the magician's illusion, so-to-speak.gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
BatmanTurian wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Followup to my previous post:
Mass Effect: Revelation, page 99, regarding Anderson and his Wife's divorce:
"You'll also see a copy of my fee. I know this isn't much consolation right now, but just be glad you two didn't have any children. It could have been a lot worse---and a lot more expensive. When custody becomes an issue the proceedings rarely go this smoothly."
I havne't finished Revelation or any of the other books, so it's not impossible they got back together and had kids, but that's just a guess on my part. Someone who has read all the books will know better.
It could just mean their children are now adults and so their welfare does not have to be considered?
If that was the case wouldn't it say. "but just be glad your children are adults." instead? The writing seems clear on this part, to me at least.
Modifié par BatmanTurian, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:13 .
#43041
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:17
CmdrShep80
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Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
its just the calm before Omega
#43042
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:19
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Eryri wrote...
I'm not the first person to say this regarding control, but I think it's worth repeating; it's as though Frodo suddenly decided to wield the One Ring himself, usurp Sauron, take mental control over all the Orcs and then helpfully order them to go and rebuild Minas Tirith.
I think most people's reaction if that had actually happened in LotR would be a mixture of WTF! and Ewww!
It's just that thematically discordant and unsettling. Particularly taking control of the Orcs (/Reapers). Yes they were hideously unsympathetic, but the idea of the hero enslaving them and using them as tools would be repugnant to most people.
Personally I'm of the (admittedly instinctive and not terribly original), opinion that Power is morally corrosive. Concentrating too much of it in one person's hands is one of the worst thing you can do to them, and a recipe for disaster.
Plus, Shepard sounds so horribly sad and lonely even in Paragon control. Assuming a literal viewpoint, I'd actually rather imagine that nothing human or emotional remains in this new entity. The thought of my Shep. alone forever, watching everyone and everything he loved eventually die and pass away is just ...(wipes away man tear).
Remember that from the literal view, Shepard died. DIED.
That AI is NOT Shepard, at all. At least the post-Lazerus Shepard was still the same meat and brain composition.
#43043
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:19
Andromidius
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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
In the first book, Revelation, when Anderson gets a message from his Divorce lawyer it's menitoned they don't have any children. Something about the lawyer being relieved there was no custody battle, just read it last week I'll see if I can find the page.
Adult children = no custody.
#43044
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:22
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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ZerebusPrime wrote...
The missing link: why a child?
I was thinking about cut version of David Anderson's "you did good" talk. In this conversation, Anderson asks Shepard if he ever thought about starting a family and tells him that not having a family was one of his greatest regrets in life. Here in the IT thread, though, we see Anderson in this sequence not as himself but rather as Shepard's unspoiled "good" side, in which case this conversation should have raised all sorts of red flags. If Shepard's conscience regrets not having a family, then it means that deep down Shepard regrets not having a family. And therein was the kink in his mental armor that the Reapers first seeped through, creating the apparition of the child playing outside Shepard's window. The Reapers then sought to widen the gap by showing the kid get vaporized, and then again and again with successive dreams. Finally, they manage to crack Shepard after his failure on Thessia. After that, we start seeing progressively weirder things in Shepard's waking hours, starting from the Cerberus HQ mission and culminating in the Decision Chamber.
Or, from a more literal point of view, it could have simply implied that Anderson had been seeing visions of children, too, which would point towards his own indoctrination.
Oh my god, that's so sad...
People were thinking the child represented maleShep as a child, but really, if you bring femShep into that idea, it really extends to:
maleShep --> my child, who looks like me when I was young
femShep --> my child, and I wanted a boy, and to be a mother at some point
BRB gonna cry now.
#43045
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:22
Arashi08
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Yep, and when Omega comes out and doesn't fully confirm IT, but just hints at it, then this thread will see a storm of trolls pour in, all spouting things like "This proves IT."...CmdrShep80 wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
its just the calm before Omega
Modifié par Arashi08, 03 novembre 2012 - 09:23 .
#43046
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:24
BatmanTurian
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Arashi08 wrote...
Yep, and when Omega comes out and doesn't fully confirm IT, but just hints at it, then this thread will see a storm of trolls pour in, all spouting things like "This proves IT."...CmdrShep80 wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
I'm sorry to see this has dead out, it had a good run and it was a nice theory , but its a shame it never became a reality, altho the existing endings are quite fine by the large audience now.
Rip indoctrination theory, it could have been awesome !!
its just the calm before Omega
Meanwhile, I'll just ignore them and keep on discussing things.
#43047
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:27
BatmanTurian
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SwobyJ wrote...
ZerebusPrime wrote...
The missing link: why a child?
I was thinking about cut version of David Anderson's "you did good" talk. In this conversation, Anderson asks Shepard if he ever thought about starting a family and tells him that not having a family was one of his greatest regrets in life. Here in the IT thread, though, we see Anderson in this sequence not as himself but rather as Shepard's unspoiled "good" side, in which case this conversation should have raised all sorts of red flags. If Shepard's conscience regrets not having a family, then it means that deep down Shepard regrets not having a family. And therein was the kink in his mental armor that the Reapers first seeped through, creating the apparition of the child playing outside Shepard's window. The Reapers then sought to widen the gap by showing the kid get vaporized, and then again and again with successive dreams. Finally, they manage to crack Shepard after his failure on Thessia. After that, we start seeing progressively weirder things in Shepard's waking hours, starting from the Cerberus HQ mission and culminating in the Decision Chamber.
Or, from a more literal point of view, it could have simply implied that Anderson had been seeing visions of children, too, which would point towards his own indoctrination.
Oh my god, that's so sad...
People were thinking the child represented maleShep as a child, but really, if you bring femShep into that idea, it really extends to:
maleShep --> my child, who looks like me when I was young
femShep --> my child, and I wanted a boy, and to be a mother at some point
BRB gonna cry now.
Yeah, it really is sad. But that is the ****** in every sapient being's mind, especially organics. We have an instinct and need to reproduce, and/or to want to nurture another and see them grow into someone we can be proud of. Well, most people want that anyway.
#43048
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:28
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Eryri wrote...
MassEffectFShep wrote...
Yeah...it's possible that, for some people, seeing Starchild right after that dialogue *might* have made them be more sympathetic toward the Starchild ("oh I can't hate you, you're just a child...a child is what I've always wanted but never got, so I can't destroy/hate you" or some version of that). Personally, I would have still called bulls*** on the whole thing, mostly because Starchild still takes a manipulative tone during his conversation, but I can see how others might have reacted differently.
So is it possible that BW didn't *want* us to be overly-sympathetic toward Starchild?
Interesting. Maybe it was the reverse? They were worried that if they laid on the sentimentality too thick, people would smell a rat, and no one would fall for their real-life indoctrination trap?
That's exactly what I thought.
I think they want us to hate StarBrat.
But still see him as possibly benevolent.
And certainly they want many of us to BELIEVE StarBrat's words.
Yet again, they don't want us to LIKE him.
-notice his smirk?
-his arrogant tone of voice?
-his confident stance (for a human child), like when the 'child' boarded that shuttle on Vancouver?
-his instant shutting down of (half-heared) objections by Shepard?
I think that was all deliberate.
#43049
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 03 novembre 2012 - 09:32
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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BatmanTurian wrote...
SwobyJ wrote...
ZerebusPrime wrote...
The missing link: why a child?
I was thinking about cut version of David Anderson's "you did good" talk. In this conversation, Anderson asks Shepard if he ever thought about starting a family and tells him that not having a family was one of his greatest regrets in life. Here in the IT thread, though, we see Anderson in this sequence not as himself but rather as Shepard's unspoiled "good" side, in which case this conversation should have raised all sorts of red flags. If Shepard's conscience regrets not having a family, then it means that deep down Shepard regrets not having a family. And therein was the kink in his mental armor that the Reapers first seeped through, creating the apparition of the child playing outside Shepard's window. The Reapers then sought to widen the gap by showing the kid get vaporized, and then again and again with successive dreams. Finally, they manage to crack Shepard after his failure on Thessia. After that, we start seeing progressively weirder things in Shepard's waking hours, starting from the Cerberus HQ mission and culminating in the Decision Chamber.
Or, from a more literal point of view, it could have simply implied that Anderson had been seeing visions of children, too, which would point towards his own indoctrination.
Oh my god, that's so sad...
People were thinking the child represented maleShep as a child, but really, if you bring femShep into that idea, it really extends to:
maleShep --> my child, who looks like me when I was young
femShep --> my child, and I wanted a boy, and to be a mother at some point
BRB gonna cry now.
Yeah, it really is sad. But that is the ****** in every sapient being's mind, especially organics. We have an instinct and need to reproduce, and/or to want to nurture another and see them grow into someone we can be proud of. Well, most people want that anyway.
Shepard partially exhibits this towards EDI, even if its more formal than a true parenthood.
He'd be a good father./She'd be a good mother.
