Wayning_Star wrote...
I cannot get all the responses to the IT, as if fans really 'want' the reality to alter in the story? So bad that poor old behind the times James becomes 'supicious' in nature?
masster blaster wrote...
Has anyone wonder why almost everytime Shepard wakes up he/she has a head ack. It is also shown when TIM/ the Reapers further push Shepard to become their pawn.
Also notice at the end game after Shepard wakes up from Harbinger blast. If you go back you die. Now think about the dreams if you go back you turn around, but in this case if you go back you die because the Reapers don't want you to leave. I mean dream speaking wise.
Also notice when Hackett get's a report from Earth he/she look not happy. His face is more grim. Also when he talks it's radio talk like it's to all fleets. When he says " Holy **** he, or she did it."
What if Hackett right now is a Reaper. I mean dream wise. Think about this the Citadel is Shepards mind and right now it's closed/ locked out so Indoctrination can't fully happened, yet the Reapers have an inside person and that is TIM.
That's why when Hackett say " Someone made it to the Citadel, it could mean the Indoctrinated part of Shepard finally breached the Citadel/ Shepard mind.
The Crucible is Harbinger in retrospect. You see when your Shepard opens his/her mind to the Crucible aka Harbinger he uploads himself into Shepard, but something is not right. The Crucible/Harbinger isn't working.
That's why Hackett says
" The Crucible isn't firing it's got to be something on your end."
Hackett could mean hey Shepard why can't I control your mind?
So when Shepard passes out again Harbinger knows he/she will wake up for real, so he creats an hallucintation the Catalyst chambers and tells Shepard to wake up.
Now if think for a moment let's say the Crucible is Harbinger. One Control is Harbinger making Shepard submit.
Synthesis Harbinger manages to let Shepard merge with it creatin the ultimate Reaper.
Destroy kills Harbinger or weakens him.
Refuse you refuse Harbinger, but in the process Shepard becomes broken.
It's just a thought and I will work on it.
Actually I think it's the Citadel that would truly be the big reveal. The Citadel is the object capable of dark energy manipulation, and the Crucible is essentially just a power device with targeting schematics.Wayning_Star wrote...
I think the crucible is the mystery here, and it's actual designers. The ones who programmed the choices. Without those entities being fully explored, its too easy to run speculation rampent. There are very few fans/humans in realtime, that actually can get behind the choices because of that gap in information. Users have no way to understand those choices because they have no way understand them, or in other words 'identify' with them.
With indoctrination/illusion, there is no viable way to describe the magic trick from this perspective, so it ends up a no holds barred scenerio, and any kind of reality replaces the actual series of events up to the point of decisions. IT folks take that as the empty space to rewrite history to meet the theory.
Modifié par Davik Kang, 05 novembre 2012 - 06:24 .
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
FifthBeatle wrote...
I'm not saying that James is indoctrinated or even going down that path and I think you have some good points, but you don't find the fact that James hears a hum combined with the fact that Bioware even put that dialogue in the game at all even remotely suspicious especially considering we know that the indoctrination signal is an infrasonic hum? Not even a little?starlitegirlx wrote...
mrgc wrote...
Dark Delta 06 wrote...
Gwyphon wrote...
I'm hoping for more EDI and, strangely enough, James forced encounters. EDI is interesting and James is just suspicious (especially after Leviathan).
Why do you say James. Is suspicious?
... I may have missed stuff I believe I never took him on a mission and apart from him wanting that weird husk head on the normandy and the scene where he and Shepard are with Ann Bryson I didn't see much of him loool
Hello I hope you don't mind me interrupting the tread ,but i'd like to add a few things about James being suspicious.At first the hummming... I never really thought it was the ship engines because as I recall Tali complained about the Normandy's engines being to quiet to sleep in ME1 and as the second Normandy is much more upgraded than the first one I doubt it would make such a noise. And only James hears it.
Also, to me, it felt that he's personality changed towards the end of the game from being all battle eager to a bit more insecure .( I got that feeling when he did'nt adress my femshep as lola anymore)
If you guided him toward the N7 program and found him in the cargo bay getting the N7 tattoo where he considers you his trainer and then you call him on his BS flirting, I think that would change him. He says when he commits, he commits. Even if you don't have the N7 conversation with him, the game will play his character as if you did. The end result is he is dedicated, committed and taking things more seriously now. Nothing to do with indoctrination. Insecure comes with the territory. Remember, he did not like the outcome of that mission where he ran it and everyone save him and maybe another soldier died. So naturally he will have insecurities about the N7 program and being able to cut it. He had doubts in the N7 discussion. Those doubts won't evaporate overnight. I'd be more concerned it they did.
Humming does not equal indoctrination. It is just him hearing humming. There is a noticable hum down there. He's new to the normandy since it just pulled out of dry dock to get shepard while most of the rest of the crew (that we talk to before we begin pick ups) appears to have been there for the retrofit. Adams, cortez, traynor ... all there. Cortez might have ignorned the hum as he was used to it by then. The other crew you pick up never goes down there so the only one that it makes sense with would be Vega. But there is a hum. People assume it's one you are not hearing, but it's noisy down there.
So really, there is no evidence to support him being indoctrinated on any level. Plus, when would he have been? Artifact exposure is necessary.
As for the one mentioned earlier regarding him at the lab/house of bryson, I think he was chosen because he's not primary to any other scenes and he is a gauranteed squadmate. Others get their own scenes through recruitment. But he never does so they might have wanted to include him in something so he gets his own scene. Same for EDI but she's logical in that she would be useful in figuring out what happened and correlating data.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
FFZero wrote...
Just finished replaying ME2 again. The music, the visuals, why oh why doesn’t ME3 have an epic ending like that.
Anyway I haven't really been that active on the forums lately, has any new info about Omega come out yet or have there been any interesting speculations?
Judas Shepard is on it, but he is still in ME2.Dwailing wrote...
Huh, so the genophage choice affects Star-Brat's dialogue? That's... very interesting. Someone should do a playthrough where they don't cure the genophage.
Davik Kang wrote...
Actually I think it's the Citadel that would truly be the big reveal. The Citadel is the object capable of dark energy manipulation, and the Crucible is essentially just a power device with targeting schematics.Wayning_Star wrote...
I think the crucible is the mystery here, and it's actual designers. The ones who programmed the choices. Without those entities being fully explored, its too easy to run speculation rampent. There are very few fans/humans in realtime, that actually can get behind the choices because of that gap in information. Users have no way to understand those choices because they have no way understand them, or in other words 'identify' with them.
With indoctrination/illusion, there is no viable way to describe the magic trick from this perspective, so it ends up a no holds barred scenerio, and any kind of reality replaces the actual series of events up to the point of decisions. IT folks take that as the empty space to rewrite history to meet the theory.
While the sabotage of the previous Crucible design was done by 'a splinter group who wanted to Control the Reapers', I think the mystery of the endings (if they are to be taken even remotely literally) will come down to an explanation of what the Citadel is. I'm not one for being big on DLC reveals, but maybe Omega will reveal something about the nature of the Citadel (or the Crucible) if it tunrs out to be a construction of similar design.
The Codex description of 'PROCESSOR' in the Reaper archive could give us a clue... it is certainly applicable to the Citadel at the end (even if it is not actually the case)...
Even knowing what happens to her, I cannot shoot her... like ever.masster blaster wrote...
Blurr " Will kill them all." Spartacus.
But Starlit Udina counciler in ME1
Don't become a specter at all, it's possible.
Also you can turn down Garrus and Tail, and be an ahole to Anderson and allways side with Cerberus. Let Cerberus have Legion, and Grunt. Let the world burn. Also let Rana live, and don't help Zuhs hope, and kill them all.
You know what starting next week I am going to do that.
Modifié par Restrider, 05 novembre 2012 - 06:54 .
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.starlitegirlx wrote...
FifthBeatle wrote...
I'm not saying that James is indoctrinated or even going down that path and I think you have some good points, but you don't find the fact that James hears a hum combined with the fact that Bioware even put that dialogue in the game at all even remotely suspicious especially considering we know that the indoctrination signal is an infrasonic hum? Not even a little?starlitegirlx wrote...
mrgc wrote...
Dark Delta 06 wrote...
Gwyphon wrote...
I'm hoping for more EDI and, strangely enough, James forced encounters. EDI is interesting and James is just suspicious (especially after Leviathan).
Why do you say James. Is suspicious?
... I may have missed stuff I believe I never took him on a mission and apart from him wanting that weird husk head on the normandy and the scene where he and Shepard are with Ann Bryson I didn't see much of him loool
Hello I hope you don't mind me interrupting the tread ,but i'd like to add a few things about James being suspicious.At first the hummming... I never really thought it was the ship engines because as I recall Tali complained about the Normandy's engines being to quiet to sleep in ME1 and as the second Normandy is much more upgraded than the first one I doubt it would make such a noise. And only James hears it.
Also, to me, it felt that he's personality changed towards the end of the game from being all battle eager to a bit more insecure .( I got that feeling when he did'nt adress my femshep as lola anymore)
If you guided him toward the N7 program and found him in the cargo bay getting the N7 tattoo where he considers you his trainer and then you call him on his BS flirting, I think that would change him. He says when he commits, he commits. Even if you don't have the N7 conversation with him, the game will play his character as if you did. The end result is he is dedicated, committed and taking things more seriously now. Nothing to do with indoctrination. Insecure comes with the territory. Remember, he did not like the outcome of that mission where he ran it and everyone save him and maybe another soldier died. So naturally he will have insecurities about the N7 program and being able to cut it. He had doubts in the N7 discussion. Those doubts won't evaporate overnight. I'd be more concerned it they did.
Humming does not equal indoctrination. It is just him hearing humming. There is a noticable hum down there. He's new to the normandy since it just pulled out of dry dock to get shepard while most of the rest of the crew (that we talk to before we begin pick ups) appears to have been there for the retrofit. Adams, cortez, traynor ... all there. Cortez might have ignorned the hum as he was used to it by then. The other crew you pick up never goes down there so the only one that it makes sense with would be Vega. But there is a hum. People assume it's one you are not hearing, but it's noisy down there.
So really, there is no evidence to support him being indoctrinated on any level. Plus, when would he have been? Artifact exposure is necessary.
As for the one mentioned earlier regarding him at the lab/house of bryson, I think he was chosen because he's not primary to any other scenes and he is a gauranteed squadmate. Others get their own scenes through recruitment. But he never does so they might have wanted to include him in something so he gets his own scene. Same for EDI but she's logical in that she would be useful in figuring out what happened and correlating data.
If you are going by the main point being the hum then no. The other things are easily explained. So we have a hum. If we are going to presume he is indoctrinated based on him hearing a hum, well, it's kind of weak. As for his mission and the collectors attack - not once do we know of a collector attack being a source of indoctrination where the survivor becomes indoctrinated. The collector ship had nothing capable of doing this.
As for the repeat in his with the council stuff, it's likely a glitch since it's the only place it happens and BW has had glitches in their games before. ME1 had the liara LI glitch. I can't even talk to her or kaidan asks me about her TWICE - same conversation both times. So I'd say James' conversation falls into that category.
Sorry, but really the only thing to go on here is a hum and I've known people who thought they heard ringing or a hum once in a while. Ears are weird like that. It's just barely suspicious and honestly, the argument to make hackett indoctrinated had more weight to it than the James one and Hackett is NOT indoctrinated.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Davik Kang wrote...
Actually I think it's the Citadel that would truly be the big reveal. The Citadel is the object capable of dark energy manipulation, and the Crucible is essentially just a power device with targeting schematics.Wayning_Star wrote...
I think the crucible is the mystery here, and it's actual designers. The ones who programmed the choices. Without those entities being fully explored, its too easy to run speculation rampent. There are very few fans/humans in realtime, that actually can get behind the choices because of that gap in information. Users have no way to understand those choices because they have no way understand them, or in other words 'identify' with them.
With indoctrination/illusion, there is no viable way to describe the magic trick from this perspective, so it ends up a no holds barred scenerio, and any kind of reality replaces the actual series of events up to the point of decisions. IT folks take that as the empty space to rewrite history to meet the theory.
While the sabotage of the previous Crucible design was done by 'a splinter group who wanted to Control the Reapers', I think the mystery of the endings (if they are to be taken even remotely literally) will come down to an explanation of what the Citadel is. I'm not one for being big on DLC reveals, but maybe Omega will reveal something about the nature of the Citadel (or the Crucible) if it tunrs out to be a construction of similar design.
The Codex description of 'PROCESSOR' in the Reaper archive could give us a clue... it is certainly applicable to the Citadel at the end (even if it is not actually the case)...
mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?
Modifié par masster blaster, 05 novembre 2012 - 07:16 .
Thank you very muchCriddle wrote...
mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?
On the first page here there are some links, and also there are more in work.
The videos that are linked on the first page are also good to gain some basic information, clevernoobs documentation have much information in it, but he jumps to conclusions to quickly sometimes, you shouldn´t take everything he says at face value.
Also I recommend reading the first page of the original first thread, there´s also important basic information with pictures and everything.mrgc wrote...
Thank you very muchCriddle wrote...
mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?
On the first page here there are some links, and also there are more in work.
The videos that are linked on the first page are also good to gain some basic information, clevernoobs documentation have much information in it, but he jumps to conclusions to quickly sometimes, you shouldn´t take everything he says at face value.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?
Modifié par starlitegirlx, 05 novembre 2012 - 07:25 .
I've already started and there is so much.....You guys should really be proud of yourselves.I don't think I've ever seen a group so dedicated.Thank you for trying to help me.Criddle wrote...
Also I recommend reading the first page of the original first thread, there´s also important basic information with pictures and everything.mrgc wrote...
Thank you very muchCriddle wrote...
mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?
On the first page here there are some links, and also there are more in work.
The videos that are linked on the first page are also good to gain some basic information, clevernoobs documentation have much information in it, but he jumps to conclusions to quickly sometimes, you shouldn´t take everything he says at face value.
Criddle wrote...
Some thoughts on the choice
of indoctrinated persons someone mentioned before.
The line "The problem
is choice." really reminded me of the Matrix Reloaded ending and
the discussion with the Architect.
We know that Mac Walters was
influenced by the Matrix trilogy and he even mentioned the "First
Matrix" which was revealed in that same conversation.
In there it was said that
the subjects rejected a forced "perfect world" (so like the
Synthesis ending), and only if the subjects were given the choice to
leave the Matrix (break Indoctrination), they would submit to the
illusion.
99,9% percent would still
choose the illusion, because it was an unconcious choice, not
something like "hey you wanna leave the matrix/break
indoctrination).
So that thing really reminds
me of Indoctrination and the Choice Chamber/Crucible; Harbinger has
to give Shepard the choice to fully indoctrinate him.
Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 05 novembre 2012 - 07:38 .
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
ZerebusPrime wrote...
mrgc, it may help you to think of Indoctrination as a progressive neurological disorder rather than something reliant upon the constant external bombardment of Reaper signals. The signals may set off the chain of events and even accelerate the disease, but once the initial damage is done there's nowhere to go but downhill.
http://masseffect.wi.../Rana_Thanoptis
Rana Thanoptis is an excellent example. She was exposed to Reaper signals on Virmire but seemed unaffected. Given the chance to escape, she doesn't actually flip out until the events of ME3, long after her initial exposure.
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