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[Criddle]

TSA_383 wrote...

Criddle wrote...


Some thoughts on the choice
of indoctrinated persons someone mentioned before.
The line "The problem
is choice." really reminded me of the Matrix Reloaded ending and
the discussion with the Architect.

We know that Mac Walters was
influenced by the Matrix trilogy and he even mentioned the "First
Matrix" which was revealed in that same conversation.
In there it was said that
the subjects rejected a forced "perfect world" (so like the
Synthesis ending), and only if the subjects were given the choice to
leave the Matrix (break Indoctrination), they would submit to the
illusion.

99,9% percent would still
choose the illusion, because it was an unconcious choice, not
something like "hey you wanna leave the matrix/break
indoctrination).
So that thing really reminds
me of Indoctrination and the Choice Chamber/Crucible; Harbinger has
to give Shepard the choice to fully indoctrinate him.

I think there's an echo on this forum 
http://social.biowar.../index/11929257

Thanks for the link, haven´t seen it before. And I´m a really big fan of the trilogy, first seen the Matrix at age of 6:bandit:
Also I really like Reloaded/Revolutions, and especially the end, it´s a  similar situation as Mass Effect, many people simply don´t understand it and take all things at face value.

[spotlessvoid]

Which just goes to show that once the Reapers have a foothold they can crank it up when they see the need.

[ZerebusPrime]

I keep trying to make parallels between Reaper indoctrination and the Darkspawn taint of the Dragon Age series. It's imperfect at best, but once you're tainted you can hear the whispers of the ArchDemon. After you begin indoctrination, you can hear the whispers of the Reapers. And in both cases you are doomed to eventually succumb to the voices in your head. I know that's not quite how either one works, but still... BioWare loves to literally mess with its characters' minds.

[Restrider]

mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few  weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?

Check out the "IT's Top Ten" in my signature. That is a good way to get an overview. It may not be as easy to get into it as with the videos, but I think you'll be able to get more into depth with the list.

[MaximizedAction]

Folks, I gotta say, I only understood the Matrix Revolutions ending thanks to
a) having experienced ME3,
having learned to understand IT and
c) you talking for thousands of pages about it, and someone here writing an explanation of Matrix while comparing it to ME.

Definitely didn't waste time on this thread. Thanks for being so awesome!


ALSO:

twitter.com/manveerheir/status/265531458335145984
"Someday this war's gonna end..."

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 05 novembre 2012 - 08:03 .

[Restrider]

starlitegirlx wrote...


There is also the one that never gets mentioned or rarely gets mentioned which is the citadel itself. It is reaper tech. We know nothing about it but it seems to be largely dismissed as a danger. Yet, in shepard's absence or death, the council determines the reaper threat was not real and shepard was delusional. Some say this had  to do with them being on the citadel. There are various bits of information through game one that make you wonder about it. The conduit was there. The conduit looks like a mass effect relay. Kaidan hears a hum when he goes by it if you click on him to talk get a response. Nobody knows a thing about the keepers other than they were once programmed by the reapers to open a gateway from dark space every 50k years. Protheans realized this and reprogrammed them to not do that which is why sovereign becomes the vanguard that must do it by interacting directly with the citadel or at least that's what it looks like. Interestingly, you are told not to interact or interfere with the keepers. Why? Maybe so you don't learn what other functions they perform other than keeping up the citadel. To me, the citadel is a very dangerous place. Actually, this comes up in ME1 and ME3 a few times... how it seems safe and secure and so nobody thinks anything will happen and yet I believe it's javik that tells us that the citadel was the first point of attack in the reaper invasion in his cycle.

I'd like to add the various remarks Joker, Bailey and James (and maybe other squadmates/characters) make at the beginning of ME3 (pre-Coup) that they people on the Citadel are in delusion and ignoring the war.
Another point that has never been answered are those plants in Leviathan (in the lab on the asteroid) that seem to have mind altering effects and that are supposedly present on the Presidium.

And I'd also like to add that you are not allowed to disturb the keepers, because they destroy themselves, if you try to study them (as far as I remember).

If you ask me, the Citadel may have a mild form of indoctrination in the sense that it pacifies people. And that would also link to the Consort and her mental abilities in pacifying people (and not some remote guys, but important diplomats and businessmen).
Arghh... so much remains unclear...

[Krimzie]

 Hmm. I'm listening to the EC soundtrack at the moment. "A Future That Many Will Never See" (destroy ending theme during Hackett's monologue) is the same motif as "Resolution," (and is the only positive sounding theme), while control and synthesis and refusal have sad and/or creepy themes that don't groove into Resolution.

Either Hulick has a preferred ending or he was given BW notes on the nature of the endings, methinks.

[MaximizedAction]

Krimzie wrote...

 Hmm. I'm listening to the EC soundtrack at the moment. "A Future That Many Will Never See" (destroy ending theme during Hackett's monologue) is the same motif as "Resolution," (and is the only positive sounding theme), while control and synthesis and refusal have sad and/or creepy themes that don't groove into Resolution.

Either Hulick has a preferred ending or he was given BW notes on the nature of the endings, methinks.

Yeah, to be honest, I didn't really like how the EC soundtracks for the three (four) endings implied - almost showed - a moral direction. It removed the ambiguity, which I think was the purpose of the ending. If the the soundtrack of 'control' implies something threatening/creepy then why built up an ambiguity during the Catalyst scene at all, are those 5 minutes worth it?

Of course, as an ITer I should like a hint towards a 'correct' ending, but then again, I also respect the uncertainty of 'correctness' the endings had.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 05 novembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[mrgc]

Restrider wrote...

mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few  weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?

Check out the "IT's Top Ten" in my signature. That is a good way to get an overview. It may not be as easy to get into it as with the videos, but I think you'll be able to get more into depth with the list.

Thank you. I'm actually reading Paroblee's blog and your list.I do appreciate all the help and friendliness.I also like to add that i found it strange that admiral hackett knew it was shepard that made it to the citadel He gets a report, someone made it there and what ..assumes it's Shepard.And by chance if he could know it's Shepard would there not have been reports about Anderson making it aswell? Yet,he never adresses Anderson or askes if anyone els made it. I would have thought he would speak to Anderson first seeing he was the higher ranking officer or when he got no response form shepard ( after shep looses conscious)

 Have the IT group discuss this before and if you did ,is there a page ref i can read/.I relly don't want to derail your thread.

[Andromidius]

I still don't like the ending to Matrix Revolutions. But then I don't much like the movie in general.

[Home run MF]

Restrider wrote...

I'd like to add the various remarks Joker, Bailey and James (and maybe other squadmates/characters) make at the beginning of ME3 (pre-Coup) that they people on the Citadel are in delusion and ignoring the war.
Another point that has never been answered are those plants in Leviathan (in the lab on the asteroid) that seem to have mind altering effects and that are supposedly present on the Presidium.

And I'd also like to add that you are not allowed to disturb the keepers, because they destroy themselves, if you try to study them (as far as I remember).

If you ask me, the Citadel may have a mild form of indoctrination in the sense that it pacifies people. And that would also link to the Consort and her mental abilities in pacifying people (and not some remote guys, but important diplomats and businessmen).
Arghh... so much remains unclear...

Shepard: Sometimes I think this whole Citadel is a mistake.

Joker: What do you mean?

Shepard: It's out here in the middle of nowhere, defensible, safe...
Remember how everyone ignored the geth threat until Saren's attack?

Joker: Let's hope they listen this time. I don't know if we'll be able to save their asses again.

About the consort there is a conversation between two of her attendants. One of them is human, and they talk about how they felt called to go there, then the asari one tells the other she is the first human to ever do so.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

So the Wii-U having nothing but interactive comics in place of me1 and me2 is the new variable being added into what we have now. It's also late in the game to be releasing the Wii-U version, but it'd be interesting if everyone new that played it took a survey regarding the storyline and ending.

[mrgc]

starlitegirlx wrote...

mrgc wrote...

Restrider wrote...

mrgc wrote...
Would you mind if I ask you a question?.I only finished Me a few  weeks ago and I'm trying to understand the I T theory? If you don't want to please just ignore the question.
Anyway it's very clear to me that the last dream that Shepard has is an attempt at indoctrination,I understand this because of the shadow and voices in the dream and the explanation of the codex on indoctrination,but how?
Shepard has the dreams on the Normandy and there is no artifacts. ?
Is there a list of pionts I can go through on IT so that I don't end up looking like an idiot when I ask questions?

Check out the "IT's Top Ten" in my signature. That is a good way to get an overview. It may not be as easy to get into it as with the videos, but I think you'll be able to get more into depth with the list.

Thank you. I'm actually reading Paroblee's blog and your list.I do appreciate all the help and friendliness.I also like to add that i found it strange that admiral hackett knew it was shepard that made it to the citadel He gets a report, someone made it there and what ..assumes it's Shepard.And by chance if he could know it's Shepard would there not have been reports about Anderson making it aswell? Yet,he never adresses Anderson or askes if anyone els made it. I would have thought he would speak to Anderson first seeing he was the higher ranking officer or when he got no response form shepard ( after shep looses conscious)

 Have the IT group discuss this before and if you did ,is there a page ref i can read/.I relly don't want to derail your thread.

I think it has been discussed. How on earth could hackett know. And how did that mic/earphone not get damaged when the reaper blast burned off the armor? Indoctrination I say.

I like that answer

[spotlessvoid]

Who is manveer? Never figured it out

[Criddle]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Who is manveer? Never figured it out

He´s Senior Designer of ME3 if i recall right.

[Mafrodon]

I don't know know if this has been discussed before but has anyone noticed how remarkably similar shepards facial injuries are to Ashleys/Kaidens after they get their face bashed in by EVA?

[Criddle]

Mafrodon wrote...

I don't know know if this has been discussed before but has anyone noticed how remarkably similar shepards facial injuries are to Ashleys/Kaidens after they get their face bashed in by EVA?

Good point, also Anderson has his face injured; but he didn´t get caught by Harby, his armor isn´t burnt, so another point for Indoctrination. Also I don´t see how the Laser causes those facial injuries.

[Criddle]

Criddle wrote...

Mafrodon wrote...

I don't know know if this has been discussed before but has anyone noticed how remarkably similar shepards facial injuries are to Ashleys/Kaidens after they get their face bashed in by EVA?

Good point, also Anderson has his face injured; but he didn´t get caught by Harby, his armor isn´t burnt, so another point for Indoctrination. Also I don´t see how the Laser causes those facial injuries.

Also the VS, especially Kaidan are somewhat of a moral compass; in Mass Effect 3 the VS got beaten up in the beginning, and also Shepard has to face difficult decisions with somewhat ethical issues (like have to either destroy Geth or Quarians if you don´t meet the requirements for peace), but he still have to decide to be able to defeat the Reapers; those injuries come back at the end, also at Anderson, which is your second moral compass, and you have to face difficult decisions in the end.

[Restrider]

mrgc wrote...
Have the IT group discuss this before and if you did ,is there a page ref i can read/.I relly don't want to derail your thread.

I know that the first time posting in this thread people usually act in superstitious awe towards the regular posters (if we assume that they are not trolls). Just don't.
No one is going to butcher you, if you have a question that may have been answered somewhere in the 6000 posts this thread already has as long as you are civil an reasonable (= not being a troll or hardcore literalist that tries to enlighten us with the advantages of Synthesis).
So, don't apologize for questions you have or if you have to make some remarks, that is actually what this thread is for.
Besides, this thread is easily your thread as well.

[Davik Kang]

Restrider wrote...
No one is going to butcher you...

Rifneno might butcher you, also I got butchered by spotless the first time i was here...

JOKES, everyone is lovely, post away, these guys are the most helpful friendly people on BSN

EDIT: @Restrider, you get any interesting conclusions from your polls yet?

Modifié par Davik Kang, 05 novembre 2012 - 09:29 .

[BleedingUranium]

Davik Kang wrote...

Restrider wrote...
No one is going to butcher you...

Rifneno might butcher you, also I got butchered by spotless the first time i was here...

JOKES, everyone is lovely, post away, these guys are the most helpful friendly people on BSN

EDIT: @Restrider, you get any interesting conclusions from your polls yet?

I third this. Everyone but Byne was a lurker at some point, nothing wrong with that 

[Restrider]

starlitegirlx wrote...
Excellent points. I forgot that the keepers destroy themselves if you try to fiddle with them. But apparently the scanning tech chorban had was benign enough to not trigger this. I liked chorban. Savvy salarian!

I always take the renegade route in the discussion with Jeff on the citadel about people being clueless. It's like the citadel has this energy that makes it calm. Wait! Didn't someone say something about that IN GAME. I can swear it was a quote from a character... was it ME1? Maybe Ashley? Dang. That's going to drive me nuts now.

The consort though might just be abilitites unrelated to the citadel since they appear to originate with at person rather than a random occurrence. But I do agree with the pacificying factor. I think it is very evident throughout the game. And even when cerberus causes all that destruction, it still seems pretty calm. People are hanging around and nothing is fixed and bodies are still lying on the ground but there is a generally weird calm to it. Not really somber except a few random people, but CALM. And there is smoke still coming out of the presidium for how long? And people just calmly sit there and eat, chat, sightsee.... how ****ed up is that? Who does that? It's like sitting on 9/11 crater and having lunch, all calm in the following october. Who does that? And I think it was still a smoking crater with lots of ash. So the analogy works, and yet we have people generally calm on the citadel. Little do they know they are all about to be reaper bait.

Well, it could be something like this.
You act as if everything is alright and try to enjoy your days, ignoring the imminent thread outside.
Since the subtitles are wrong in that video, I'll translate:
"This is all so impossible! Like in a dream and you just want to wake up, but you can't! It just goes on and on... I think I feel bad..*BOOM*"
On a side note: A lot of the people partying were actually indoctrinated!
TOP: YEAH!

Modifié par Restrider, 05 novembre 2012 - 09:39 .