80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

Yo thanks to TSA for bringing up his thread and for spotless for necroing it.

Here's a quote from that thread, only a few above the necro, especially for DD if he hasn't already got it:

"I’m going to stop the reapers but I won’t sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." - Shepard, end of ME2.

Though some could twist it to be anti-Destroy, seems fairly anti-Synthesis to me.

[Restrider]

Davik Kang wrote...

EDIT: @Restrider, you get any interesting conclusions from your polls yet?

Do you mean the character polls? I'll wait a bit and when there are enough votes and the percentages are not going to change a lot, I'll compile a neat little overview of the results.
As a future undertaking, I'll maybe refine the procedure and launch in that thread more sophisticated polls that may place the characters on a 2D diagram, comparable to this type of political alignment test.
Considering the result on that test I had, I am a centristic libertarian (closest do Mandela). I guess that would make me an Asari lore-wise, lulz.

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

Shepard is clearly angry because she didnt have that model in her cabin yet, and the Reapers destroyed it.

[mrgc]

Well thank you all. I have'nt been on the BSN in more 7 months( dragon age related) because of some very mean people and as you might have notice I am very nervous about posting and asking questions on this thread.But thank you all for the help and I just want to assure you all that I'm not a troll and I'm reading as mush of your collected data as possible to catch up.Please be patient with me and I'm sure that one of these days I will be able to have conversations with you and actually know what I'm writting about.

[Davik Kang]

mrgc wrote...
Well thank you all. I have'nt been on the BSN in more 7 months( dragon age related) because of some very mean people and as you might have notice I am very nervous about posting and asking questions on this thread.But thank you all for the help and I just want to assure you all that I'm not a troll and I'm reading as mush of your collected data as possible to catch up.Please be patient with me and I'm sure that one of these days I will be able to have conversations with you and actually know what I'm writting about.

To summarise IT as simply as possible:

when you rush towards the beam at the end of the London mission, a Reaper shoots at you and nearly hits you, and you are knocked unconscious.  The main IT theory says that everything that happens after this is a dream.  The slow walk to the beam, the scene inside the Citadel with TIM and Anderson, and the conversation with the Child are all part of a dream.  The idea is that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you, instead of killing you, to turn you against your own people and help them win the war.

This means that, according to IT, you never leave Earth, and instead are being tested to see if you can beat indoctrination.  To win, you have to pick Destroy, which rejects the Child's attempts to persuade you not to destroy the Reapers.  The other options, Control and Synthesis, may seem appealing, but they are ideals that were represented by TIM and Saren, who were the main bad guys from ME2 and ME1, and who were both indoctrinated.

If you have high enough war assets (EMS rating), and choose Destroy, Shepard will wake up, in rubble back in London, to continue the fight.  Other elements of the endings are considered part of the dream in IT.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:16 .

[mrgc]

Davik Kang wrote...

mrgc wrote...
Well thank you all. I have'nt been on the BSN in more 7 months( dragon age related) because of some very mean people and as you might have notice I am very nervous about posting and asking questions on this thread.But thank you all for the help and I just want to assure you all that I'm not a troll and I'm reading as mush of your collected data as possible to catch up.Please be patient with me and I'm sure that one of these days I will be able to have conversations with you and actually know what I'm writting about.

To summarise IT as simply as possible:

when you rush towards the beam at the end of the London mission, a Reaper shoots at you and nearly hits you, and you are knocked unconscious.  The main IT theory says that everything that happens after this is a dream.  The slow walk to the beam, the scene inside the Citadel with TIM and Anderson, and the conversation with the Child are all part of a dream.  The idea is that the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate you, instead of killing you, to turn you against your own people and help them win the war.

This means that, according to IT, you never leave Earth, and instead are being tested to see if you can beat indoctrination.  To win, you have to pick Destroy, which rejects the Child's attempts to persuade you not to destroy the Reapers.  The other options, Control and Synthesis, may seem appealing, but they are ideals that were represented by TIM and Saren, who were the main bad guys from ME2 and ME1, and who were both indoctrinated.

If you have high enough war assets (EMS rating), and choose Destroy, Shepard will wake up, in rubble back in London, to continue the fight.  Other elements of the endings are considered part of the dream in IT.

You see I did'nt really get that ,to me once walking towards the beam in a "dream state " was similiar than shooting  Eva or facing the reaper at Ronnoch ,but after paying more attention I notice it was'nt exactly the same,so after reading some of the recommended info I've come see that I was way off .I also did'nt notice the thing about the guns changing.There is all these thing I've missed I think I'm going to have to read as much as I can and play the game from an IT perspective.

The only choice that made sense to me was destroy

Modifié par mrgc, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[byne]

So its a good idea I've decided to play Reach to familiarize myself with Halo controls for when Halo 4 comes out.

I just died because my shields went away, and I pressed Y, then wondered as my health went down why I wasnt doing Biotic Charge and refilling my shields.

[Davik Kang]

mrgc wrote...
You see I did'nt really get that ,to me once walking towards the beam in a "dream state " was similiar than shooting  Eva or facing the reaper at Ronnoch ,but after paying more attention I notice it was'nt exactly the same,so after reading some of the recommended info I've come see that I was way off .I also did'nt notice the thing about the guns changing.There is all these thing I've missed I think I'm going to have to read as much as I can and play the game from an IT perspective.

The only choice that made sense to me was destroy

I feel compelled to point out (sorry everybody) that I think you were right first time with your analysis of shooting Eva/Rannoch Reaper, but then I don't totally agree with IT.  My personal recomendation to you would be to read what the IT guys think and make up your own mind about what is true and what is false.

In my opinion, IT as a theory covers a lot of plot holes much better than most other theories out there.  It is well-researched and makes a ton of sense.  But still imo you should value your own opinion first, and see if IT can change your mind, rather than accept IT as truth.

All that aside, it sure is nice to have someone with an open mind come to these forums.  (As you already said, there are a lot of angry people on BSN, even compared to the average Internet forum).

[Davik Kang]

byne wrote...

So its a good idea I've decided to play Reach to familiarize myself with Halo controls for when Halo 4 comes out.

I just died because my shields went away, and I pressed Y, then wondered as my health went down why I wasnt doing Biotic Charge and refilling my shields.

I do stuff like this all the time, especially back when I was playing CoD too.  I play a bunch of fighting games as well, and the block button's different in every one, it often seems like I'm just mashing a random attack for no reason.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[mrgc]

Davik Kang wrote...

mrgc wrote...
You see I did'nt really get that ,to me once walking towards the beam in a "dream state " was similiar than shooting  Eva or facing the reaper at Ronnoch ,but after paying more attention I notice it was'nt exactly the same,so after reading some of the recommended info I've come see that I was way off .I also did'nt notice the thing about the guns changing.There is all these thing I've missed I think I'm going to have to read as much as I can and play the game from an IT perspective.

The only choice that made sense to me was destroy

I feel compelled to point out (sorry everybody) that I think you were right first time with your analysis of shooting Eva/Rannoch Reaper, but then I don't totally agree with IT.  My personal recomendation to you would be to read what the IT guys think and make up your own mind about what is true and what is false.

In my opinion, IT as a theory covers a lot of plot holes much better than most other theories out there.  It is well-researched and makes a ton of sense.  But still imo you should value your own opinion first, and see if IT can change your mind, rather than accept IT as truth.

All that aside, it sure is nice to have someone with an open mind come to these forums.  (As you already said, there are a lot of angry people on BSN, even compared to the average Internet forum).

 I know that I can't use my biotic powers once I do the beam run, but I don't know if I can use it when Eva comes running towards me.I know she kills me with her omnitool if I don't shoot her. Anyway I'm going to try and see if I can use my biotics on Eva.Only to see if it is diffrent from each other

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Okay here it goes.
Shepard's burnt *** armor and blood is His/Her willpower/ Indoctrinated part of him/herself.

The dead body's near you Shepard are his/her willpower, but minor willpower.

Now when you fight the the three Husk, and Shields, that's the Indoctrinated part of Shepard's mind. It's small, but not as big.

Now the reason why everything seems blurry is because Shepard's mind is clouded.

The
reason why he/she can't go back is because the Reapers want Shepard to
enter his/her mind so they can get inside Shepard's closed mind ( The
Citadel).

Now when the cut scene shows Hackett it's actually a
Reaper talking. You see when Hackett get's a report from the After math
of the Conduit run. Hackett is actually pleased that someone got on to
the Citadel, but he is actually pleased that Shepard got up to the
Citadel ( His/her mind) and TIM ( Shepard Indoctrinated mind ) can now
force Shepard to submit to Indoctrination.

Now As we see the dead bodes in the hallway that's actually Shepard's gateway to his/her mind
breached. All that willpower is dead, and that's when we hear Anderson.
Shepard is done he/she can't go on, so Anderson ( The main core of
Shepard willpower) wakes him/her up to fight his/her mind against the
Reapers.

Now as we progress though Shepard mind we see things
that Shepard has seen in the past. Also when Anderson tells Shepard "
Maybe they are making a Reaper..." It could actually be that the Reapers
are turning Shepard into their image.


Okay so when we confront TIM, Anderson tells us that " They are Controlling YOU."

But TIM says " I don't think so.

Now
if TIM is Shepard's Indoctrinated mind then Anderson it telling Shepard
( TIM) That hello the Reapers are Controlling you. TIM denies it, and
we kill him.

Now when we talk to Anderson we are making peace with our other half.

Yet
when Shepard opens the Citadel his/her ( Mind) The Crucible ( The
Reapers Trojan Horse) managed to finally get into Shepard mind.

That's
why when we meet the Catalyst he aka Harbinger is telling Shepard "
Your the first one to have gotten this far, but Harbinger can't
Indoctrinate Shepard with force, so he finds a new solution.

Destroy
is Shepard Destroy the Reapers hold on him/her, but in the process
Shepard will die, unless you have good Galactic readiness (Shepard's readiness), and good EMS ( Shepard's willpower to fight)

Control is Shepard submitting to the Reapers, which causes them to slowly Indoctrinate Shepard.

Synthesis is rapid Indoctrination causing Shepard to quickly become Indoctrinate long enough for the Reaper plans to work.

Refuse is Shepard saying no to the Reapers He resisted Indoctrination, but in the process Shepard is broken.

Shepard's willpower is fighting the Reapers hence your fleets are fighting the fight, as well hammer/ the galaxy.

Okay
now as I was saying from my previous post when you see the Citadel get
damaged in Destroy, and Synthesis, the Reapers Destroy Shepard's mind.
Now for Control the Reapers don't Destroy Shepard's mind ( The Citadel)
and they now Control Shepard.

Now when we see the wave hit in
Destroy Shepard's willpower depending on you EMS/Assets your Shepard can
win the fight. Hence you see the two soldiers Shepard standing his/her
ground. Now as everyone is cheering the Reapers/ the Indoctrination
areas are being wiped out, hence the red or orange wave hits the reapers
and all its forces and they die.                 

The relays are
Shepard's nervous system and is sending the choice Shepard made and is
now processing the information, but it overloads Shepard's body, hence
the galaxy ( Shepard's body) is being targeted.

Now in Control
Everyone is cheering,yet something is not right. As the wave hits
everyone becomes infected with Indoctrination. Shepard's willpower
finally gives up and submits to the Reapers.

As for Synthesis no
body is cheering because the Reapers break through Shepard's body and
mind and now are changing his/her self.

Refuse is Shepard saying
no to the Reapers, and they leave Shepard, but Shepard becomes a
mindless husk. The Reapers pushed to far and broke Shepard.

Now for the Normandy scene is Shepard's last beacon of hope.
In Synthesis Shepard's friends/ last beacon of hope become infected with Indoctrination
Control the last beacon of hope ( the Normandy) becomes silently Indoctrinated unknowing it's been corrupted.
Destroy
keeps them from being Indoctrinated. As for EDi, and the geth, they are
actually Shepard's salvation. In other words Edi, and the geth dying is
what it takes for Shepard to fight the Indoctrination.

Refuse nothing but what I have said.

Now as we see the epilogues it's actually not the galaxy rebuilding, but Shepard.

In
Destroy there is hope, and Shepard's friends rebuild Shepard/ the
galaxy hence he/she wakes up because that little epilogue repaired
Shepard's mind.

For Control Shepard is being repaired by the
Reapers hence you see them doing all the work. They are getting Shepard
ready for his/her role in their plans.

Synthesis is Shepard's
willpower/the galaxy and his/her friends along with the Reapers
rebuilding Shepard. The problem with this is it's rapid Indoctrination
and the Reapers are using Shepard's friends/ the people of the galaxy
rebuild Shepard because they need him/her now more than ever because.
The Reapers are loosing the fight against the fleets, and ground forces.

Modifié par masster blaster, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[Restrider]

@ starlitegirlx
I don't know. I've been quite active in the battlenet and WoW forums and as far as I can tell, Blizzard handles these forums similar to the BSN. I am not sure about other forums of bigger companies, but it seems that the private/little community websites are way better managed than the forums of the big players. I have no clue if that is deliberate or just coincidence, since the sample size of two is not really large enough to have a conclusion.

[Andromidius]

mrgc wrote...
 I know that I can't use my biotic powers once I do the beam run, but I don't know if I can use it when Eva comes running towards me.I know she kills me with her omnitool if I don't shoot her. Anyway I'm going to try and see if I can use my biotics on Eva.Only to see if it is diffrent from each other

You can use them against Eva.  They just don't do jack, and you have to shoot her with your pistol.

[Rifneno]

starlitegirlx wrote...

mrgc wrote...

Well thank you all. I have'nt been on the BSN in more 7 months( dragon age related) because of some very mean people and as you might have notice I am very nervous about posting and asking questions on this thread.But thank you all for the help and I just want to assure you all that I'm not a troll and I'm reading as mush of your collected data as possible to catch up.Please be patient with me and I'm sure that one of these days I will be able to have conversations with you and actually know what I'm writting about.

Oh you mean the juvenille toolishness? Yes, that's always a lovely repellant. Gotta wonder what kind of company is fine to let people act like idiots so consistently on their forum boards. Sure, they have people who are supposedly are moderators but they rarely moderate. I ran multiple forums for several years and there are a dozen ways they could get decent moderators by using incentives. Not major incentives but even some small discount on DLC or credits for MP based on logins. I never even needed to give incentives. People WANTED to moderate. They stood in line and we (my team - a few admins and other moderators) weighed in and chose. That was a few years ago, but still, if they wanted to make it decent here, they could. It would take minimal effort and perhaps low cost incentives along with giving moderators the right to warn and after x amount of warnings you are banned. That would keep people in check and get rid of the idiots who contribute nothing but ill will.

BW seems to fail at some of the simpliest things. Kind of disconcerting.

Undermoderation is greatly preferable to overmoderation.  Take a look at the douchebag mods on GameFAQs.  Saying something is "retarded", even if it's the plot to a Pauly Shore movie, is banworthy.  People got suspended for "talking about piracy" when they discussed Vaan's torrent attack on a Dissidia forum.  I got one once for telling a troll "cool story, bro".  It is FAR better for mods to be more tolerant rather than less.  And they generally do a good job around here.
People volunteer to moderate?  Oh yes, in droves.  They're called "control freaks" and in 11 out of 10 cases, they'll abuse the power if they're foolishly given it.  Ever hear the saying that the people who crave power are the ones who least deserve it?  It's very, and I mean VERY apt here.

[mrgc]

starlitegirlx wrote...

mrgc wrote...

Well thank you all. I have'nt been on the BSN in more 7 months( dragon age related) because of some very mean people and as you might have notice I am very nervous about posting and asking questions on this thread.But thank you all for the help and I just want to assure you all that I'm not a troll and I'm reading as mush of your collected data as possible to catch up.Please be patient with me and I'm sure that one of these days I will be able to have conversations with you and actually know what I'm writting about.

Oh you mean the juvenille toolishness? Yes, that's always a lovely repellant. Gotta wonder what kind of company is fine to let people act like idiots so consistently on their forum boards. Sure, they have people who are supposedly are moderators but they rarely moderate. I ran multiple forums for several years and there are a dozen ways they could get decent moderators by using incentives. Not major incentives but even some small discount on DLC or credits for MP based on logins. I never even needed to give incentives. People WANTED to moderate. They stood in line and we (my team - a few admins and other moderators) weighed in and chose. That was a few years ago, but still, if they wanted to make it decent here, they could. It would take minimal effort and perhaps low cost incentives along with giving moderators the right to warn and after x amount of warnings you are banned. That would keep people in check and get rid of the idiots who contribute nothing but ill will.

BW seems to fail at some of the simpliest things. Kind of disconcerting.

Seems  I have to have a high EMS to survive the BSN.

[Restrider]

Andromidius wrote...

mrgc wrote...
 I know that I can't use my biotic powers once I do the beam run, but I don't know if I can use it when Eva comes running towards me.I know she kills me with her omnitool if I don't shoot her. Anyway I'm going to try and see if I can use my biotics on Eva.Only to see if it is diffrent from each other

You can use them against Eva.  They just don't do jack, and you have to shoot her with your pistol.

Kind of funny that the powers you can utilize to accelerate individuals to escape velocity in ME1 (lift+throw FTW) don't do nothing, while a squirt gun (Predator) does.

[TSA_383]

Davik Kang wrote...

Yo thanks to TSA for bringing up his thread and for spotless for necroing it.

Here's a quote from that thread, only a few above the necro, especially for DD if he hasn't already got it:

"I’m going to stop the reapers but I won’t sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." - Shepard, end of ME2.

Though some could twist it to be anti-Destroy, seems fairly anti-Synthesis to me.

Was not expecting that thread to get necro-d - it was the first post I ever made on this forum 
Still, to my mind, it still holds water, and the solution to the problem is identical.

spotlessvoid wrote...

Expect part 2 in the sumner....still feeling that optimistic TSA?

I was young and naive 

MaximizedAction wrote...
twitter.com/manveerheir/status/265531458335145984
"Someday this war's gonna end..."

Intriguing...

[mrgc]

Andromidius wrote...

mrgc wrote...
 I know that I can't use my biotic powers once I do the beam run, but I don't know if I can use it when Eva comes running towards me.I know she kills me with her omnitool if I don't shoot her. Anyway I'm going to try and see if I can use my biotics on Eva.Only to see if it is diffrent from each other

You can use them against Eva.  They just don't do jack, and you have to shoot her with your pistol.

So that's already diffrent to the beam run.Thank you.

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...
Undermoderation is greatly preferable to overmoderation.  Take a look at the douchebag mods on GameFAQs.  Saying something is "retarded", even if it's the plot to a Pauly Shore movie, is banworthy.  People got suspended for "talking about piracy" when they discussed Vaan's torrent attack on a Dissidia forum.  I got one once for telling a troll "cool story, bro".  It is FAR better for mods to be more tolerant rather than less.  And they generally do a good job around here.
People volunteer to moderate?  Oh yes, in droves.  They're called "control freaks" and in 11 out of 10 cases, they'll abuse the power if they're foolishly given it.  Ever hear the saying that the people who crave power are the ones who least deserve it?  It's very, and I mean VERY apt here.

I have to agree with Rifneno here. BSN is okay-ish.
Take teamliquid.net for example (I know, kind of unrelated). If you do not have something important to add to a discussion, especially in the more strict sections (such as strategy), or you open threads without checking if there already existing ones or if the problem is considered to be "too insignificant" you can easily get warned/banned.
On the other hand, you can really enjoy lurking around since the stuff posted there has a really good quality.
Battlenet forums / WoW forums are on the other extreme (especially a few years back). Anarchism was the usual MO and it was terrible, if you tried to discuss something without getting flooded with bullcrap.

So, these are two examples of forums that cover the same content, but whose MOs are diametral to each other. I think BSN is in the middle and I like it. You can fool around a bit and yet you are still able to find a lot of interesting stuff here.

[masster blaster]

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)

here you go.


mrgc

Modifié par masster blaster, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:28 .

[Davik Kang]

TSA_383 wrote...
Was not expecting that thread to get necro-d - it was the first post I ever made on this forum 
Still, to my mind, it still holds water, and the solution to the problem is identical.

I posted a couple of weeks back my thoughts on how Synthesis basically represents the Matrix (the very bad thing in the film, not the film itself)... it got swallowed in posts, but certainly your thread has added a certain amount of (possibly misplaced) confidence to that idea...

Talking of which, I had a thought about the theme of "inevitablility"... Agent Smith famously uses the idea of inevitability to undermine Neo's efforts, and the Architect also uses a similar argument in the sequel... meanwhile in ME3, the Child alludes to the inevitability of Synthesis, as did Sovereign, Harbinger and Saren before him...

Maybe when Walters wrote "ending feels like... end of first Matrix" he meant that players would feel like Neo when they refused to accept the inevitability of the situation, and instead believe that they had the choice to reject the Child's logic and give hope a chance, by going right ahead and picking Destroy...

Maybe.  Works for me anyway:D.  Also I just remembered that Neo is called Mr. Anderson...

Modifié par Davik Kang, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[mrgc]

masster blaster wrote...

Restrider wrote...

----------Preamble----------

This list has been compiled to enable an easy access to The Indoctrination Theory. While there are many other aspects, hints and signs throughout Mass Effect 3 and the entire trilogy that may also point to The Indoctrination Theory, the concepts presented in this list are - to the best of my knowledge - the most compelling ones. Take into account that my role in this undertaking was mainly the role of an editor, though many broader suggestions I found to be convincing, made it into the list. The vast majority of the points listed below were reported by fellow associates of The Indoctrination Theory and they deserve the correspondent gratitude.
The order of the list was determined through surveys and polls that can be found here.

----------The Ten Most Important Concepts Supporting The Indoctrination Theory----------

     
        I) Indoctrination in general :

          1.   Regarding IT, Shepard is in the process of indoctrination and the outcome is decided by the final decision taken.
          2.   The concept of indoctrination is a crucial part throughout the trilogy and nothing new to the player (link 1 and 2).
          3.   Rana Thanoptis is an example of how subtle and slow indoctrination can be.
          4.   Shepard knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact that indoctrinated an entire facility.
          5.   Logs on the derelict Reaper illustrate the reactions of victims of indoctrination.
          6.   Paul Grayson's indoctrination show its effects on someone's mind.
          7.   Harbinger's smacktalk (link 1 and 2).

 
       II) The Breath Scene :

          1.   London rubble.
          2.   Mako in the background.
          3.   Citadel explosion (link 1 and 2).


    III) The Dreams :
         
          1.   Dream sequences and post-beam sequence share the same game mechanics.
          2.   Reality-nonreality transition after beam shot (post-beam, dreams, Geth Consensus).
          3.   Oily shadows and whispering.
          4.   Nightmares are mentioned in the Arrival by subjects being indoctrinated.
          5.   Chambers and Asari having PTSD as comparison between PTSD & Shepard's dreams.


    IV) Leviathan :

          1.   Harbinger/the Reapers perfected enthrallment to indoctrination.
          2.   Enthrallment uses memories of its victim.
          3.   Similarities between Leviathan end and decision chamber.
          4.   Zap sound as a sign to enter/leave virtual reality (link 1 and 2).
          5.   Note the file name of the sixth murder that can be found in Bryson's lab.


     V) The Choices :

          1.   Shepard on his knees happened only during/after some mind control.
          2.   The Guardian is aligned to the Reapers.
          3.   Control and Synthesis being supported by indoctrinated characters.
          4.   A swap in the colours (TIM = Paragon; Anderson = Renegade).
          5.   Huskification during Control/Synthesis vs. Shepard gaining strength while shooting the tubes.
          6.   Guardian losing it when you refuse ("SO BE IT!").
          7.   Decision chamber looks like a dialogue wheel from an aerial view.
          8.   Decision chamber resembling beam scenery (link 1 and 2).
          9.   Ambiguous end dialogue (Control/Synthesis).
        10.   Slide shows in Control/Synthesis/Destroy illustrate future possibilities, not facts that already happened.
        11.   Soldiers in Destroy fighting fiercely while in Control/Synthesis they are losing (note: no cheering in Synthesis).


    VI) The Kid :

         1.   Moves from one roof to another during an invasion (all links).
         2.   It can open a door that is marked as locked.
         3.   It survives a blast from a Reaper laser.
         4.   It is not seen by anyone else.
         5.   There always are warning symbols around it.
         6.   It disappears without making any noise.
         7.   It does not behave like a normal kid ("You cannot save me!").
         8.   The Guardian has the same form as the kid.


   VII) Anderson & TIM :

         1.   How did Anderson follow Shepard?
         2.   How can Anderson reach the control first?
         3.   Why did no one else follow Anderson?
         4.   From where did TIM shows up?
         5.   TIM's scars are only present at the end of the game.
         6.   Anderson may be addressing Shepard ("They are controlling you!").
         7.   Shepard is dominated by TIM and thus through him by the Reapers.
         8.   Anderson and Shepard have wounds at the same place (link 1 and 2).
         9.   Reaper horn played in the background (at 1/2 speed).


  VIII) The Guardian :

         1.   It has the same shape as the kid ( thus an extraction of Shepard's memories).
         2.   It speaks with femshep's and maleshep's voice.
         3.   Harbinger's line in the MP trailer (link 1 and 2).


    IX) The Beam Run :

        1.   Harbinger is pin-pointing everyone and everything but Shepard.
        2.   Harbinger does not destroy the Normandy.
        3.   Shepard survives a blast that should one-shot Makos and Gunships.
        4.   Harbinger just leaves.


     X) The Citadel :

        1.   The Citadel resembles events of the past.
        2.   You can find Coats dead on the Citadel.
        3.   The illumination without a specific source.

----------Epilogue----------

I would again like to thank everyone that has contributed to this list and if only a single person gains a broader perspective of The Indoctrination Theory through this list, the porpuse of this undertaking has been fulfilled and not in vain. This list may seem to be complete, but there are certainly going to be new discoveries in the course of exploring new content and I will try to adjust this list accordingly.


Version 1.0  (23.10.2012)

here you go.


mrgc

Thank you masster blaster ,this is very kind of you.

[masster blaster]

http://www.youtube.c...-UqHzC6Q4c#t=7s

http://www.youtube.c...KbIE7IM2o#t=12s

http://www.youtube.c...KbIE7IM2o#t=57s


http://www.youtube.c...bIE7IM2o#t=61s' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> http://www.youtube.com/watch
Top

okay first video you see the boy with an alliance fighter. which we all thought at first it was a real ship.

Now look at video 2 and you see a girl with an identical Allaince fighter the boy has, And later on a Reaper comes down from the sky and in the next video you see Shepard pick up the toy.

Now in video 4 if you let it play for about 5 seconds Shepard looks pissed of when he sees the Husk. What if this happence after Shepard is back in the fight. Also the funny thing about the video title is " Take Back Earth" Not end the Reapers, but take BACK Earth.

sorry I forgot to say maybe when Shepard picks up the toy he is thinking about the boy, and when he sees the husk, he knows where the Reapers got the idea from. I mean where the Reapers created the boy from. The girl.

Modifié par masster blaster, 05 novembre 2012 - 11:50 .