80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

Humakt83 wrote...

Like I've said, the "child" is the most devious villain I've ever encountered. Just brilliant.

Agreed. I have never wanted to kick the digital crap out of a video game villain, as much as I have that satanic little git.

Not even Sephiroth murdering Aeris compares to the sheer loathing that thing inspires. Any dlc that allows us to settle Starbinger's hash once and for all, will sell like hotcakes. 


 

Modifié par Eryri, 07 novembre 2012 - 03:09 .

[Rifneno]

Eryri wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Like I've said, the "child" is the most devious villain I've ever encountered. Just brilliant.

Agreed. I have never wanted to kick the digital crap out of a video game villain, as much as I have that satanic little git.

Not even Sephiroth murdering Aeris compares to him. Any dlc that allows us to settle Starbinger's hash once and for all, will sell like hotcakes. 

Am I the only one who likes to refer to getting sync killed by a phantom as "getting Aeris'd"?

[Eryri]

Rifneno wrote...


Am I the only one who likes to refer to getting sync killed by a phantom as "getting Aeris'd"?

:lol:"getting Aeris'd" - I like that. That could catch on.

[Davik Kang]

CmdrShep80 wrote...
well you did about saying it was Shepard not a phantom. 

Joking?  I don't think I said anything like this... credit has to go to someone else cos I really don't know much about this Phantom stuff at all.  Maybe it was someone else with the same profile pic?

[DoomsdayDevice]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
No. Xil has never made a good point here. Hell, not even a decent one. She's become the poster child for people who don't get it and failed the test. You're misunderstanding what's going on too if you think she had a point. Destroy is not a path laid out for you by Starbinger. This whole thing is only happening in Shepard's subconscious. Destroy is the path that Shepard's subconscious has laid out. Control and synthesis are paths laid out by the Reapers. Starbinger only tries to dissaude you from destroy. It's presented as all negative vs. far superior options. You die, EDI dies, the geth dies, organic civilization is set far back, and eventually will be completely destroyed by "the problem." That is not a path that Starbinger gave you, that's a path that Starbinger is trying desperately to talk you away from.

I'm not a huge fan of Xil-bashing or anyone bashing for that matter.  I also think that Destroy is 'laid out' for you - we didn't choose to kill (or at least compromise) EDI or the Geth.  

But I do agree 100% with the rest.  It's not laid out by the Child.  He most certainly is trying desperately to talk you out of it.

The consequences of Destroy are the consequences of the Crucible design, and have nothing to do with the Reapers' goals or motives.  Destroy is, just like someone quoted recently, '[the only way] this ends today'.

Keep in mind that your take on this is slightly different because most people in this thread don't even think Shepard is on the Citadel, or that the crucible is used at all.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Davik Kang wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...
well you did about saying it was Shepard not a phantom. 

Joking?  I don't think I said anything like this... credit has to go to someone else cos I really don't know much about this Phantom stuff at all.  Maybe it was someone else with the same profile pic?

No, it was the person with the motorcycle picture, not Davik.

Also, happy N7 day everyone!

Did the multiplayer event go live yet? I don't see anything, and I have to go to work soon. =(

[Davik Kang]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Keep in mind that your take on this is slightly different because most people in this thread don't even think Shepard is on the Citadel, or that the crucible is used at all. 

Oh yeah... so what do you guys think about the EDI-Geth thing then?  Is it just part of the illusion to try to get Shepard to believe the choices are genuine?  Is the death of EDI and Geth the 'nagging doubt' that he inserts in your mind to convince you against Destroy?

And if that's the case, why would he (Harbinger) pick this issue?  On the positive side, I can see that it's quite believable, which would help convince Shepard that the choice is genuine, and then to persuade him to save the Reapers to save everyone.  But what about anti-synthetic Shepards?  Isn't it a bit risky to go down this route in case Shepard happens to think that synthetics are just machines?  Or does he assume that the line "even you are partly synthetic" will cause such a Shepard to re-evaluate the choice?

It seems risky given that some Shepards may be fully willing to sacrifice themselves, but may well not agree that synthetics have a soul.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Did the multiplayer event go live yet? I don't see anything, and I have to go to work soon. =(

For me it said 8am GMT for 24 hours, but that might be because I'm on UK time... someone somewhere posted that it would start 8am in whatever local time you're on... 

Modifié par Davik Kang, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:00 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

I'm on GMT+1, so yeah... weird. Nothing to see yet. Should have gone live in the early morning.

As for your question about EDI & the Geth, I think it's all just lies. I don't even believe the Reapers are trying to find a solution to the 'problem', it's all just BS. They just want to stay top dogs. They enjoy the harvest.

Actually, it's not even important that it's a lie, because the crucible won't do anything if it's all in Shep's head.

Still, if the consequences were real and the crucible would actually do what we see, I'd still go with destroy. It's the only way to be sure.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:05 .

[KyreneZA]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



Is that glowy green eyes?
If so, lulz
Double lulz if it turns out to be an adjutant...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa9nUdP_V1lbCfK2pjfLXNhW85u8-vrd-fKm041Rgq2RsWCqspEDmCJlkPYQ

[DoomsdayDevice]

Also, it's not just the breath scene that suggests we never left Earth. There's the dream halo right after Harby's blast. How can anything after that be real?

Every time we see that Halo, we go into a dream/illusion/simulation.

Why would it be there if Shepard really went to the Citadel?

And then there's the sound effect that plays when Shepard zaps onto the Citadel, which is identical to the sound effect in Leviathan when Shep goes in and out of the illusion.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Davik Kang wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Keep in mind that your take on this is slightly different because most people in this thread don't even think Shepard is on the Citadel, or that the crucible is used at all. 

Oh yeah... so what do you guys think about the EDI-Geth thing then?  Is it just part of the illusion to try to get Shepard to believe the choices are genuine?  Is the death of EDI and Geth the 'nagging doubt' that he inserts in your mind to convince you against Destroy?

And if that's the case, why would he (Harbinger) pick this issue?  On the positive side, I can see that it's quite believable, which would help convince Shepard that the choice is genuine, and then to persuade him to save the Reapers to save everyone.  But what about anti-synthetic Shepards?  Isn't it a bit risky to go down this route in case Shepard happens to think that synthetics are just machines?  Or does he assume that the line "even you are partly synthetic" will cause such a Shepard to re-evaluate the choice?

It seems risky given that some Shepards may be fully willing to sacrifice themselves, but may well not agree that synthetics have a soul.

 

I dont think leaving out Destroy was ever a possibility in the Indoctrination Illusion (so call it). It is what Shepard came there to do, it is what Shepard believes the Crucible will do and leaving it out would have made him suspicius, if such a thing is even possible. I think Deetsoy is there because it is what Shepard desires, an unindoctrinated part of his mind still seeing through it all and all Catalyst can do is downplay it.

The other way around I dont think the Reapers fear Shepard picking it. If it is an Illsuion as we think Destroy has no physical consequence on them and would merily mean Shepard breaks free, either to get killed by Harbinger looming over him or they wait until Shepard is softened up some more before trying again.

Basicly I think for the Reapers getting Shepard indoctrinated is good, but they dont fear failing at it as represented by the fact that only very high EMS will have the breath scene. At those EMS you not only break free, but your forces have the strength to protect you from whatever might follow.

Just my two cents.

[Dwailing]

Happy N7 Day! Anything I need to know?

[DoomsdayDevice]

I believe the three choices are 'reversed', so to speak.

I've said this before, but I don't think many people saw it.

The joke will be on Shepard in all three scenarios.

Pick control = Your mind will be controlled.
Pick synthesis = Your mind will be synthesized (Preserved in Reaper form).
Pick destroy = Your mind will be destroyed.

So in my interpretation, destroy is ALSO a trap. BUT, as it is the only option that does not go along with what the Reapers want, it is also the only option that resists indoctrination.

Therefore, Shepard's mind will be destroyed. (S)he wants to destroy the Reapers, will not be turned, and so will be destroyed, because (s)he is of no use to the Reapers.

The reason Shepard survives this in high EMS is because his/her mind/willpower is extremely strong in high EMS (as illustrated by all the war assets (s)he assembled).

So in low EMS, you can resist indoctrination by picking destroy, but your mind is not strong enough to survive.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[Davik Kang]

@ DD and RM...

sure, I understand that Destroy has to be presented as an option in IT. What I am getting at is:

why does Harbinger use the idea of killing synthetics to discourage Shepard? Why not use something else? We don't know what the Crucible does, so Harbinger could have used any BS to dissuade us from using it. Why not say that Earth would be destroyed instead, Death-star style?

[Leonia]

I'm not sure how having more war assets makes one have higher willpower.. but looking at it from a game mechanic perspective it makes some bit of sense that EMS is really a measure of Shepard's personal level of confidence.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Davik Kang wrote...

@ DD and RM...

sure, I understand that Destroy has to be presented as an option in IT. What I am getting at is:

why does Harbinger use the idea of killing synthetics to discourage Shepard? Why not use something else? We don't know what the Crucible does, so Harbinger could have used any BS to dissuade us from using it. Why not say that Earth would be destroyed instead, Death-star style?

Because that wouldn't make sense.

"You will destroy the Reapers, but also your home planet."

Say what?

At least presenting it in a way that seems consistent (destroy ALL synthetics, including the Reapers & a lot of technology) makes sense.

[KyreneZA]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...
well you did about saying it was Shepard not a phantom. 

Joking?  I don't think I said anything like this... credit has to go to someone else cos I really don't know much about this Phantom stuff at all.  Maybe it was someone else with the same profile pic?

No, it was the person with the motorcycle picture, not Davik.

Also, happy N7 day everyone!

Did the multiplayer event go live yet? I don't see anything, and I have to go to work soon. =(

Yeah, this person, with...

<--- this motorcycle pic. 

[DoomsdayDevice]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure how having more war assets makes one have higher willpower.. but looking at it from a game mechanic perspective it makes some bit of sense that EMS is really a measure of Shepard's personal level of confidence.

In high EMS, you did EVERYTHING you could to unite the galaxy. If that isn't indicative of a strong will, then what is?

[Leonia]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure how having more war assets makes one have higher willpower.. but looking at it from a game mechanic perspective it makes some bit of sense that EMS is really a measure of Shepard's personal level of confidence.

In high EMS, you did EVERYTHING you could to unite the galaxy. If that isn't indicative of a strong will, then what is?

True, but in Refuse you basically did everything and it wasn't enough. I know, not the same thing. And given that they lowered the EMS requirements and DLC makes it nearly impossible to have low EMS at all, you don't really have to get everything to achieve that ending.  It indicates a great capacity for leadership, not necessarily high willpower. And we don't even know that high willpower can counteract indoctrination, not really.

Modifié par leonia42, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

You can also put it this way.

In low EMS destroy, Shepard's mind buys into the illusion of dying from the blast that blows up the crucible. (The Reapers show you the illusion, and if you buy into it, you die)

In high EMS destroy, Shepard's mind is strong (and hopeful!) enough to reject what is being presented to him/her, and so, wakes up.

"Don't forget to come up for breath. There's a lot more war going on." - Garrus.

[DoomsdayDevice]

leonia42 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not sure how having more war assets makes one have higher willpower.. but looking at it from a game mechanic perspective it makes some bit of sense that EMS is really a measure of Shepard's personal level of confidence.

In high EMS, you did EVERYTHING you could to unite the galaxy. If that isn't indicative of a strong will, then what is?

True, but in Refuse you basically did everything and it wasn't enough. I know, not the same thing. And given that they lowered the EMS requirements and DLC makes it nearly impossible to have low EMS at all, you don't really have to get everything to achieve that ending.  It indicates a great capacity for leadership, not necessarily high willpower. And we don't even know that high willpower can counteract indoctrination, not really.

Sure we do. Shepard talks both Saren and TIM into resisting indoctrination by saying they are stronger than the Reapers.

[DoomsdayDevice]

I have to go now, my friends.

TTYL!

Have a fun N7 day. =)

[Leonia]

And both TIM and Saren died shortly thereafter. Grayson resisted for brief amounts of time but he died too. On the flip side, we already know Shepard has incredible willpower according to Liara in ME1 regarding the beacons. Is Shepard special enough to break out of indoctrination permanently? Or even long enough to use the Crucible or whatever is needed to stop the Reapers? We've yet to see a real cure.

[paxxton]

Hey, people! Check this out. N7 Day events, rewards and attractions.
http://masseffect.bi...ommunity/n7day/

Modifié par paxxton, 07 novembre 2012 - 04:46 .