80611 réponses à ce sujet

[abnocte]

I have some questions about the ending and I don't seem to find what I'm looking for...

If we take the IT as correct and the original ending... what was the purpose of the Crucible?

I mean, Shepard is hit before reaching the Citadel, from that point onward we assume everything is a illusion where Shepards fights indoctrination.

That means that no one opened the Citadels arms so the Crucible gets attached to it to be used.

That means the fleets fought the battle the "hard way".

And the relays don't really get destroyed.

So the game went from a galaxy-wide war to a mind-battle that has no bearing in the game "reality"?

...

Or I'm to assume the Crucible purpose was to echoo the result of Shepard's mind-battle to the galaxy resulting in some sort of ultimate weapon?

Then the part about the relays and the Normandy fleeing should be part of "reality"?


Also, why does the Normandy flees the local cluster? I can understand non-human fleets wanting to go back to their homeworlds, but if earth isn't destroyed, and seeing how organics aren't affected by the Crucible bubble wouldn't make more sense to land back on Earth?

@Eryri, I still get goosebumps each time I hear Ravel ask the question... and I smile like an idiot upon seeing the almost 20 answers you can choose from   

[paxxton]

starlitegirlx wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This weekend's OP is Operation Blast Furnace.
http://blog.bioware....-blast-furnace/

As usually, piece of cake.

Looks fun! What time do they start it? It says tomorrow's date but not sure when. Thanks!

It really depends on what timezone you live in. But I guess the OP should begin up to 3 hours after N7 Day Challenge ends which is in 17h.

Modifié par paxxton, 08 novembre 2012 - 10:45 .

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

On a side note: my RvB 10 year anniversary boxset just arrived!

Looks like I have something to do for the next 18hrs 42 min!

Saw my first Red vs. Blue on Tuesday.  Blue won.  Was pretty boring.  The storyline needs a lot of improvement if it's to be worth watching in 2016.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

On a side note: my RvB 10 year anniversary boxset just arrived!

Looks like I have something to do for the next 18hrs 42 min!

Saw my first Red vs. Blue on Tuesday.  Blue won.  Was pretty boring.  The storyline needs a lot of improvement if it's to be worth watching in 2016.

It took me entirely too long to get that joke.

[abnocte]

FifthBeatle wrote...

abnocte wrote...

The problem with the Reaper growl its that it means nothing to those of us that haven't read the novels. I don't mind Bioware expanding their products... as long as they aren't required to understand ingame content.

Well, that is the beautiful thing about IT in my opinion. For those that have invested themselves in the Mass Effect universe and played the game for the immersive storytelling and adventure, we get an ending that is emotionally satisfying and complete. We are able to pick up on the subtilties that others would miss. Those that only casually play the games and have not explored the vast universe Bioware has created, will simply take the literal endings at face value. 

Excuse me, but are you telling me that I didn't invest myself enough in Mass Effect because I didn't purchase anything but the games?

If so, that's insulting.

I hate and suck at shooters, there is no other real reason for me to play ME other than the storytelling that made me a Bioware fan back when they released Baldur's Gate.

I also fail to see why any story explained in a videogame needs external sources of information to understand what is going on. If the game doesn't explain itself there is a serious problem with the writing.

Bioware had 3 full games to explain things, 3 full games, I shouldn't need to buy their books, comics, phone-games to understand the main and original product.

Edit: ...tried to tone it down... no sure if my english is failing me....

Modifié par abnocte, 08 novembre 2012 - 11:09 .

[masster blaster]

Man Red team deeds some free lancers of their own. I mean blue team get's free lancers but red team no. Also byne don't you think that the next season will have the UNSC trying to find the reds and blues because they are wanted?

[Hrothdane]

abnocte wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

abnocte wrote...

The problem with the Reaper growl its that it means nothing to those of us that haven't read the novels. I don't mind Bioware expanding their products... as long as they aren't required to understand ingame content.

Well, that is the beautiful thing about IT in my opinion. For those that have invested themselves in the Mass Effect universe and played the game for the immersive storytelling and adventure, we get an ending that is emotionally satisfying and complete. We are able to pick up on the subtilties that others would miss. Those that only casually play the games and have not explored the vast universe Bioware has created, will simply take the literal endings at face value. 

Excuse me, but are you telling me that I didn't invest myself enough in Mass Effect because I didn't purchase anything but the games?

That's insulting.

I hate and suck at shooters, there is no other real reason for me to play ME other than the storytelling that made me a Bioware fan back when they released Baldur's Gate.

I also fail to see why any story explained in a videogame needs external sources of information to understand what is going on. If the game doesn't explain itself there is a serious problem with the writing.

Bioware had 3 full games to explain things, 3 full games, and you are telling me that the one at fault is me because I didn't buy the books, comics, and phone games?

Really?

I only purchased the games and I came up with a pseudo IT interpretation on my own....

I don't think you need any of that stuff. It helps support IT, but it isn't necessary.

[Andromidius]

Eryri wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Triple incoming:
Guys/gals, did you notice that Seivals thread has been locked, while the parody-thread remains open? How embarassing... ^^

Well, he or she is persistent at least - http://social.biowar.../index/14861085

Don't look unless you have a few spare neurons you don't mind killing off. Apparently we can't judge the Catalyst because he's operating under a different set of morals. <_<

Moral relativism - ad absurdum.

And the easy responce is - and we operate under our own set of morals, and thus the Catalyst can't judge us.  And thus we can happy nuke the Reapers into oblivion and carry on with our existances.

*dusts off hands*

[Andromidius]

abnocte wrote...

If we take the IT as correct and the original ending... what was the purpose of the Crucible? 

Ingenius sabotage from the Reapers.  Leaving magic plans to defeat them, supposedly created by all the races that came before, without any clue as to how it works?  And having your enemies spend huge amounts of resources on it instead of focusing efforts on resistance against the Reaper onslaught?

Better yet, its a trap or a device only the Reapers can make use of.  Its apperently little more then a giant battery.  Which attached to the Citadel.  Which is a massive Relay that's designed to transport the entire Reaper armada.

...so yeah.  The Crucible isn't legit.  At all.

[Dwailing]

@abnocte

Think about it this way. I'm going to assume that you're a high school graduate. That means you completed at least one year of physics, right? Now, you could be extremely dedicated in school and gain a pretty solid understanding of physics. You might then go on to study physics in college. You could be extremely dedicated in college and gain an even better understanding of physics. Then, you hear that some physicist just made a huge discovery. Do you get upset because he made the discovery and you didn't even though you were extremely dedicated? I doubt it. That's what I think of IT. Just because you weren't the one who figured it out because you didn't read the books and comics, doesn't mean you're not dedicated. It just means that there were others who were even MORE dedicated who figured it out. I know the comparison is not perfect, but I think it might help.

Edit: tl; dr It wasn't designed to be figured out by everyone.  Just because you didn't immediately figure it out doesn't mean you're not dedicated.

Modifié par Dwailing, 08 novembre 2012 - 11:25 .

[abnocte]

Hrothdane wrote...

I only purchased the games and I came up with a pseudo IT interpretation on my own....

I don't think you need any of that stuff. It helps support IT, but it isn't necessary.

Well I did notice something was odd, but I didn't really put all the pieces together, partly because I played ME3 for the first time just a few days ago... and I had already a preconcieved idea about the ending due to all the uproar...

The real problem for me is that ( by the looks of it ) a large amount of players didn't get the ending ( assuming the IT is correct ), if Bioware had done a better job explaining what was going on ingame the number of people that reached the conclusion of everything being a mind-battle against indoctrination should have been larger...

That's why justifying the ending with lore that can only be found outside of the game isn't a valid answer to me. Regardless of the IT being correct or no, I feel Bioware didn't do a good enough job...

[ZerebusPrime]

So back on page 1789 of this thread, right before I had to go back to the real world for the day, there was a link to a video showing Shepard seemingly hitting the bench from his dream when the Reapers attack Alliance HQ. I honestly wish this had been noticed (by me!) waaaaaaay back in March, because it would have been solid evidence of Shepard's dream elements overlapping with the real world.

Right now, though, I'm wondering if we can just get solid confirmation that that bench does not exist after Shepard rolls off of it. I'm also wondering if the bench is one of the things that has been discussed to death in the IT threads during one of the many moments when I wasn't reading them. If it's yes and no, respectively, then I'd also love to see a small standalone thread made about it in the forums proper.

[abnocte]

Dwailing wrote...

@abnocte

Think about it this way. I'm going to assume that you're a high school graduate. That means you completed at least one year of physics, right? Now, you could be extremely dedicated in school and gain a pretty solid understanding of physics. You might then go on to study physics in college. You could be extremely dedicated in college and gain an even better understanding of physics. Then, you hear that some physicist just made a huge discovery. Do you get upset because he made the discovery and you didn't even though you were extremely dedicated? I doubt it. That's what I think of IT. Just because you weren't the one who figured it out because you didn't read the books and comics, doesn't mean you're not dedicated. It just means that there were others who were even MORE dedicated who figured it out. I know the comparison is not perfect, but I think it might help.

Yeah, I get your point... Its been a looooooooong time since I went to High school though! lol

I still think that Bioware should have explained things better, just so not only the  highly dedicted would get it... specially since they were claiming to want to make the games accessible to those that picked up the games mid way ( no having played ME or ME2 ).

When ME2 was out I complained about it not reflecting on Shepard's death at all, I think that the dreams should have started back then: you died in an horrible way and were brough back with reaper tech on your body. It was the perfect moment to start exploring Shepards psyche.

I have been thinking about Shepards exposition to indoctrination and I can only come up with:

ME -> Shiala mind melding

ME2 -> Reapers implants + dead reaper mission. If we take into account DLC: Arrivals beacon

as relevant ones pre-ME3...

A part of me still thinks that there's some serious sloppy writting here...

[Hrothdane]

abnocte wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

I only purchased the games and I came up with a pseudo IT interpretation on my own....

I don't think you need any of that stuff. It helps support IT, but it isn't necessary.

Well I did notice something was odd, but I didn't really put all the pieces together, partly because I played ME3 for the first time just a few days ago... and I had already a preconcieved idea about the ending due to all the uproar...

The real problem for me is that ( by the looks of it ) a large amount of players didn't get the ending ( assuming the IT is correct ), if Bioware had done a better job explaining what was going on ingame the number of people that reached the conclusion of everything being a mind-battle against indoctrination should have been larger...

That's why justifying the ending with lore that can only be found outside of the game isn't a valid answer to me. Regardless of the IT being correct or no, I feel Bioware didn't do a good enough job...

Absolutely. The execution could have been better.

[ElSuperGecko]

abnocte wrote...
Well I did notice something was odd, but I didn't really put all the pieces together, partly because I played ME3 for the first time just a few days ago... and I had already a preconcieved idea about the ending due to all the uproar...

The real problem for me is that ( by the looks of it ) a large amount of players didn't get the ending ( assuming the IT is correct ), if Bioware had done a better job explaining what was going on ingame the number of people that reached the conclusion of everything being a mind-battle against indoctrination should have been larger...

That's why justifying the ending with lore that can only be found outside of the game isn't a valid answer to me. Regardless of the IT being correct or no, I feel Bioware didn't do a good enough job...

First up, welcome aboard!

Personally, I don't think IT - or any of the many interpretsations of the endings, for that matter - need to be justified by using any source outside the games themselves.

I'm a huge fan of the Mass Effect series.  Own all the games, and all the DLC.  But I've never looked outside the games themselves - never read the books, followed the webisodes, read the comics... that didn't stop me piecing things together as I p-layed the game though.

You're given the hints throughout the games themselves, from the beginning.  Saren, Kenson, TIM, Sovereign, Harbinger, so forth and so on.  You don't need to look elsewhere for answers (although I'm sure that those that have read the books or the comics will pick up on some of the subtler stuff that the rest of us miss).

I too had heard the uproar over the ending.  It put me off buying the game for a month or so after launch.  But when I gave it a go, I found myself smiling to myself as I was playing it through.  As you said, something wasn't right, and it didn't take too much thinking back over the series to start piecing things together.

This IT thread is a great place to find people who think in a similar line.  People who are happy to discuss what may or may not be happening, share their ideas and thoughts.  We don't all necessarily agree with each other all of the time, but we're united in that we all believe there's much more going on than meets the eye.

If you haven't already, check out some of the videos on the first page of the thread.  There's some amazing observations to be had there.

[Dwailing]

Yeah, I agree that the execution could have been better. However, no one has ever done an ending exactly like this. They're charting new territory in game development here. They can be forgiven, if you ask me, for a few minor slip ups.

[FifthBeatle]

abnocte wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...

abnocte wrote...

The problem with the Reaper growl its that it means nothing to those of us that haven't read the novels. I don't mind Bioware expanding their products... as long as they aren't required to understand ingame content.

Well, that is the beautiful thing about IT in my opinion. For those that have invested themselves in the Mass Effect universe and played the game for the immersive storytelling and adventure, we get an ending that is emotionally satisfying and complete. We are able to pick up on the subtilties that others would miss. Those that only casually play the games and have not explored the vast universe Bioware has created, will simply take the literal endings at face value. 

Excuse me, but are you telling me that I didn't invest myself enough in Mass Effect because I didn't purchase anything but the games?

If so, that's insulting.

I hate and suck at shooters, there is no other real reason for me to play ME other than the storytelling that made me a Bioware fan back when they released Baldur's Gate.

I also fail to see why any story explained in a videogame needs external sources of information to understand what is going on. If the game doesn't explain itself there is a serious problem with the writing.

Bioware had 3 full games to explain things, 3 full games, I shouldn't need to buy their books, comics, phone-games to understand the main and original product.

Edit: ...tried to tone it down... no sure if my english is failing me....

Well, I think you might be interpreting what I said to be a little bit more of attack than it was, but I do think that the ending was easier to comeby had you read the books and comics. Certainly the ending has been foreshadowed since Revelation but I also do not think that you need to have read any of the books to have understand the ending either. However, I see nothing wrong with a game, movie, book, or whatever to require the user to have outside knowledge. 

Look at it this way: if you do not collect enough war assets, you do not get the "breath" scene. Do you think that is unfair to people who rushed through the game?

Edit: I should also add a big welcome. I think the more you dive into the evidence supporting the theory the less you will think the execution was poor. The indoctrination is of you (the player) and if it weren't subtle it wouldn't work. 

Modifié par FifthBeatle, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Restrider]

abnocte wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

I only purchased the games and I came up with a pseudo IT interpretation on my own....

I don't think you need any of that stuff. It helps support IT, but it isn't necessary.

Well I did notice something was odd, but I didn't really put all the pieces together, partly because I played ME3 for the first time just a few days ago... and I had already a preconcieved idea about the ending due to all the uproar...

The real problem for me is that ( by the looks of it ) a large amount of players didn't get the ending ( assuming the IT is correct ), if Bioware had done a better job explaining what was going on ingame the number of people that reached the conclusion of everything being a mind-battle against indoctrination should have been larger...

That's why justifying the ending with lore that can only be found outside of the game isn't a valid answer to me. Regardless of the IT being correct or no, I feel Bioware didn't do a good enough job...

Who seriously says that he figured it all out while playing the first time, is either lying or is really an exception.
Take me for example! I knew something was off and I sure as hell would not trust the self-proclaimed leader of the Reapers and his offers. Thus I refused.
As far as I know, spotless chose Synthesis Control on his first playthrough (and I know that he is ashamed of that   ).
Many others chose Destroy, but few really out of the notion that it had to be indoctrination in play. It was either because it was always their goal since ME1 or because they had a subconscious feeling that it was the right choice in this strange environment.
In any case, many have been fooled by the Guardian in the end. The important part is to not keep being fooled.

Modifié par Restrider, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:37 .

[Dwailing]

Also, abnocte, since I didn't say this earlier, welcome! It's always nice to see another mind freed from the matrix I mean indoctrination.

[Restrider]

Dwailing wrote...

Also, abnocte, since I didn't say this earlier, welcome! It's always nice to see another mind freed from the matrix I mean indoctrination.

I'll have to add this.
Always a pleasure to meet new people that are willing to look into this theory!

[spotlessvoid]

Restrider....byne, clearly.

You edit that slanderous lie out this guddam second! Synthesis my ass. I got tricked into control, buddy.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[cavs25]

I wouldn't waste my time giving Casey suggestions on how to make the game better, they obviously don't care and will do whatever they want anyways.

[masster blaster]

That was me Restrider not spot. Spot pick Control not Synthesis.

[spotlessvoid]

cavs25 wrote...

I wouldn't waste my time giving Casey suggestions on how to make the game better, they obviously don't care and will do whatever they want anyways.

Exactly. Laziness, bad writing, AND apathetic.

[spotlessvoid]

masster blaster wrote...

That was me Restrider not spot. Spot pick Control not Synthesis.

I have already contacted my attorney. He assures me of success if I choose to pursue a defamation suit. You have 1 hour Restrider.