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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#44826
CmdrShep80

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paxxton wrote...

This weekend's OP is Operation Blast Furnace.
http://blog.bioware....-blast-furnace/

As usually, piece of cake.


not for me. I don't have a lot of flame based things yet

#44827
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clennon8 wrote...

I chose Synthesis on my first play-through, but only by accident. I didn't really know where I was supposed to go, and I just kind of wandered ahead, and then got locked into Synthesis. I wanted Destroy. Like many, I felt like something was wrong, but I didn't really know what was going on.


My first playthrough I got to the decision chamber, and when it was time to make my choice, it went like this:

-So TIM tried to control the Reapers and he became indoctrinated.
-Saren tried to implant himself with Reaper tech, and became indoctrinated.
-The only logical choice is destroy.

Then I just picked destroy.

Need I remind it was 4:30 in the morning and I was running on adrenaline. My head was kind of spinning as well.

#44828
Gwyphon

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401 Kill wrote...

Can you post the links, if it's not too much trouble please.

SPOILERS

Modifié par Gwyphon, 09 novembre 2012 - 02:30 .


#44829
Krimzie

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 Okay, just like I did about, oh I dunno, 300 pages ago, I'm popping in with another quote from another play that's tickling my Mass Effect... (giggity).

If you'll remember, in ME2 Citadel there is an advertisement column that plays around SIX different recordings of an elcor performing Hamlet. So I don't think this is as big of a stretch as it otherwise could have been. There be Shakespeare nerds in the writer room. This is a quote from the play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead

Rosencrantz: I can hear—I thought I heard—music.

Guildenstern: Yes?

Rosencrantz: Like a band. It sounded like—a band. Drums.

Guildenstern: Yes.

Rosencrantz: It couldn’t have been real.

Guildenstern: “The colours red, blue and green are real. The colour yellow is a mystical experience shared by everybody”—demolish.

Rosencrantz: It must have been thunder. Like drums.

Guildenstern: A man breaking his journey between one place and another at a third place of no name, character, population or significance, sees a unicorn cross his path and disappear. That in itself is startling, but there are precedents for mystical encounters of various kinds, or to be less extreme, a choice of persuasions to put it down to fancy; until—“My God,” says a second man, “I must be dreaming. I thought I saw a unicorn.” At which point, a dimension is added that makes the experience as alarming as it will ever be. A third witness, you understand, adds no further dimension but only spreads it thinner, and a fourth thinner still, and the more witnesses there are the thinner it gets and the more reasonable it becomes until it is as thin as reality, the name we give to the common experience. . . . “Look, look!” recites the crowd. “A horse with an arrow in its forehead! It must have been mistaken for a deer.”

Rosencrantz: I knew all along it was a band.

Guildenstern: He knew all along it was a band.


The bolded part is what absolutely grabbed me, but I think the bit about hearing the band and the unicorn feels goofily relevant. 

Red, green, blue... the rachni yellow... demolish!? Play with it if you want. I probably will be for the next hour... hmm-hmm-hmm...

Modifié par Krimzie, 09 novembre 2012 - 02:45 .


#44830
paxxton

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This weekend's OP is Operation Blast Furnace.
http://blog.bioware....-blast-furnace/

As usually, piece of cake.


not for me. I don't have a lot of flame based things yet

Just lvl up your Krogan Soldier and you'll have Carnage power to use for the OP.

#44831
401 Kill

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Gwyphon wrote...

401 Kill wrote...

Can you post the links, if it's not too much trouble please.

SPOILERS

Hey thanks! If it is too much of a spoiler, I will have too exit seeing as I spoiled Leviathan.

#44832
CmdrShep80

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 Omg! I just made the connection about when we were talking about the Normandy picking up the squad and not being blasted by Harbinger who is right in front of the Normandy

Fridge logic says:

Why do the Reapers never just blast the Normandy out of the sky whenever they have the chance? Why take out two shuttles full of civilians when the most advanced warship in the Alliance fleet and the Reapers deadliest enemy is just hovering there?

 It's simple - they can't. The Normandy has a Reaper IFF installed, thanks to the events of Mass Effect 2. The Reapers simply don't target Shepard's ship because it doesn't register as an enemy. They couldn't destroy the Normandy even if they wanted to

As far as we know Reapers can't look outside a porthole because they are a mix of synthetic and organic and who wants to use organic eyes when you can use superior synthetic eyeballs

#44833
Rifneno

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

 Omg! I just made the connection about when we were talking about the Normandy picking up the squad and not being blasted by Harbinger who is right in front of the Normandy

Fridge logic says:

Why do the Reapers never just blast the Normandy out of the sky whenever they have the chance? Why take out two shuttles full of civilians when the most advanced warship in the Alliance fleet and the Reapers deadliest enemy is just hovering there?

 It's simple - they can't. The Normandy has a Reaper IFF installed, thanks to the events of Mass Effect 2. The Reapers simply don't target Shepard's ship because it doesn't register as an enemy. They couldn't destroy the Normandy even if they wanted to

As far as we know Reapers can't look outside a porthole because they are a mix of synthetic and organic and who wants to use organic eyes when you can use superior synthetic eyeballs


The IFF only works at very long range.  In visual range, they know very well what the Normandy is.

#44834
CmdrShep80

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masster blaster wrote...

Swobyj if your BF falls for synthesis he is Indoctrinated, and that goes for Control. Or maybe he will pick refuse. On that note Ash can romance Fem Shepard.


+1 on interest of outcome for SwoobyJ bf. will he start posting here too soon? (Or does he already?)

#44835
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Something else I was thinking about today. The way the Normandy is laid out, after every mission you pass those two female soldiers next to the scanner (exit the CIC and walk toward the war room), they put those women there to give people clues and foreshadowing for the ending. For example:

-What kind of person looks at a camp that turns people into husks, and says, "yeah I want to help with that!"
-Same guy that lets Cerberus stick Reaper tech into his skull.

Also, after each mission, I think you spawn in the war room if I'm not mistaken, not the CIC. So you'll always pass those two women and they'll say things like the above.

Modifié par magnetite, 09 novembre 2012 - 02:55 .


#44836
masster blaster

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Not the IFF again. Look Collectors found Normandy be tracking the Normandy even when it had Reaper IFF. Also it's reaper tech, and who made it Harbinger did. Hello if Harbinger is the master mind, then he created the Reaper IFF. Also again it's only for going through Omega 4 relay, and not raming our ships into Reapers.

#44837
Davik Kang

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Krimzie wrote...

Guildenstern: A man breaking his journey between one place and another at a third place of no name, character, population or significance, sees a unicorn cross his path and disappear. That in itself is startling, but there are precedents for mystical encounters of various kinds, or to be less extreme, a choice of persuasions to put it down to fancy; until—“My God,” says a second man, “I must be dreaming. I thought I saw a unicorn.” At which point, a dimension is added that makes the experience as alarming as it will ever be. A third witness, you understand, adds no further dimension but only spreads it thinner, and a fourth thinner still, and the more witnesses there are the thinner it gets and the more reasonable it becomes until it is as thin as reality, the name we give to the common experience. . . . “Look, look!” recites the crowd. “A horse with an arrow in its forehead! It must have been mistaken for a deer.”

This is just fantastic.  I could have Restrider et al bite my head off for such a suggestion, so I'll leave it vague for now, but this could explain why so many people refuse to see the final stage as a dream.

#44838
paxxton

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Hahaha! One of the tropes says BioWare wanted the ending to be inferior because contemporary sci-fi has bleak endings. Just lol.

#44839
CmdrShep80

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paxxton wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This weekend's OP is Operation Blast Furnace.
http://blog.bioware....-blast-furnace/

As usually, piece of cake.


not for me. I don't have a lot of flame based things yet

Just lvl up your Krogan Soldier and you'll have Carnage power to use for the OP.


:o:lol: I do have a full leveled Krogan soldier!

#44840
ZerebusPrime

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masster blaster wrote...

Not the IFF again. Look Collectors found Normandy be tracking the Normandy even when it had Reaper IFF. Also it's reaper tech, and who made it Harbinger did. Hello if Harbinger is the master mind, then he created the Reaper IFF. Also again it's only for going through Omega 4 relay, and not raming our ships into Reapers.


Nitpick incoming.  The Collectors found the Normandy because the Reaper IFF introduced a virus into EDI's systems and broadcast the Normandy's location, IIRC.  EDI later purged that virus after gaining complete control over the Normandy's systems.

#44841
paxxton

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This weekend's OP is Operation Blast Furnace.
http://blog.bioware....-blast-furnace/

As usually, piece of cake.


not for me. I don't have a lot of flame based things yet

Just lvl up your Krogan Soldier and you'll have Carnage power to use for the OP.


:o:lol: I do have a full leveled Krogan soldier!

You're set for the OP then.

#44842
CmdrShep80

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Not the IFF again. Look Collectors found Normandy be tracking the Normandy even when it had Reaper IFF. Also it's reaper tech, and who made it Harbinger did. Hello if Harbinger is the master mind, then he created the Reaper IFF. Also again it's only for going through Omega 4 relay, and not raming our ships into Reapers.


Nitpick incoming.  The Collectors found the Normandy because the Reaper IFF introduced a virus into EDI's systems and broadcast the Normandy's location, IIRC.  EDI later purged that virus after gaining complete control over the Normandy's systems.



can the IFF be turned on and off as needed?

#44843
spotlessvoid

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They can't look out a porthole so they can't see....I...what the fu-

#44844
CmdrShep80

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 So i know this may not mean a lot but I sent Chris Priestly a message on N7 day about:

Hi Chris: 

I had one question about the trilogy set. I have ME1, ME 2 collector ed., and ME 3 collector's ed. Will the dlcs I've already bought prior to buying the trilogy and the special collector's options that came with the original games I have registered now also be usable with the trilogy?

I did buy the trilogy by the way just want to be sure I'm not missing out on anything with the differences between collector's edition and the trilogy



And the next day he said:

Posted ImageChris Priestly08:43 AM 2012-11-08Yes, they will all work. =)

#44845
masster blaster

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Hey did we ever go in depth about Chakwas and Adams debate? Or Donnaly and Adams debate? In ME3 we see our crew for the first time actually debate against one another. I don't mean like ME two were people are trying to kill eachother, but argue.

Adams is telling Donnaly that EDI is alive, but Donnaly is just saying EDI is just a ship.

I wish Bill casey was here. Bill if you are can you post these two conversations please.

Also on that notewhy did Bioware give us a choice to get EDI and Joker together. Well it's optional, but really why.

Mabye that's why the brat uses this against Shepard because deepending on how on if you got EDI together with Joker, the brat uses this against Shepard in Destroy. I mean the play is told to take care of EDI by Joker Shepard knows if EDI died then Joker would be a mess. Also why is Joker happy in Destroy if EDI is dead. Shouldn't joker be holding EDI's body and cry.

Unless she is not dead. That goes for the Geth.

If you notice everything in all the endings came true, however Destroy didn't. One nobody is starting the cycle all over again. Why didn't we see EDi, and the Geth die. That would have made the scene more dramatic.

#44846
demersel

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Krimzie wrote...

If you'll remember, in ME2 Citadel there is an advertisement column that plays around SIX different recordings of an elcor performing Hamlet. So I don't think this is as big of a stretch as it otherwise could have been. There be Shakespeare nerds in the writer room. This is a quote from the play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead



Implications are a bit unplesant, since, you know, after all, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern ARE dead. They just don't know it. 

#44847
ZerebusPrime

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Not the IFF again. Look Collectors found Normandy be tracking the Normandy even when it had Reaper IFF. Also it's reaper tech, and who made it Harbinger did. Hello if Harbinger is the master mind, then he created the Reaper IFF. Also again it's only for going through Omega 4 relay, and not raming our ships into Reapers.


Nitpick incoming.  The Collectors found the Normandy because the Reaper IFF introduced a virus into EDI's systems and broadcast the Normandy's location, IIRC.  EDI later purged that virus after gaining complete control over the Normandy's systems.



can the IFF be turned on and off as needed?


I have absolutely no idea.

And I only replied because it looked like you were asking me in particular.

#44848
LazyTechGuy

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Even if Harbinger doesn't have eyes, you'd think he would've gone, "Hmmm, now why the hell did Shepard just disappear into that Reaper over there? That's kinda... that's kinda strange....oh wait! He's back. Oh God, I haven't been firing my laser this entire time."

#44849
Krimzie

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demersel wrote...

Krimzie wrote...

If you'll remember, in ME2 Citadel there is an advertisement column that plays around SIX different recordings of an elcor performing Hamlet. So I don't think this is as big of a stretch as it otherwise could have been. There be Shakespeare nerds in the writer room. This is a quote from the play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead



Implications are a bit unplesant, since, you know, after all, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern ARE dead. They just don't know it. 


Wellllllllll, if I can be an exhaustive pain in the ass for a second, then I'll just say that the stage directions at the end of R+G simply say "disappears" for their final exits. No actual beheadings, although even that is only a repeated story in Hamlet. If only they had never gone to London... OH WAIT, London. Anderson was born there, you know. :B

Modifié par Krimzie, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:10 .


#44850
demersel

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Anyways, it really buffles me how obvoius it is and how people just ignore the thing they are being told explicitly right to their face.

We KNOW that citadel is a trap. ME1 is all aobut it - citadel is the ultimate trap by reapers. (as is relay network by extension.

We KNOW that it just so happens that Shepard due to his role in the events in ME1 is the most important human in the galaxy. ME2 STARTS with this info - exposition - unskippable exposition - it makes sure that you watch it -
- If we loose Shepard - Humanity might well follow - then see to it that we don't loose Shepard!
You are iimportant in a sense that without you NOTHING will get done.

And who says that those facts stop being facts as the games in wich they were stated end?
If we take those facts intop account when we are presented with a choice to fix everything by sacrificing yoursefl on the citadel that really should give us all the answers we should need.

Vendetta says - catalist is the citadel! 

So the crucial part of the sopposed ultimated weapon against reapers is their own ultimate trap for the whole galaxy? How come? Using the weapons of the enemy against themselves, yousay? Really? So you basicly go for control - the very thing Illusive Man preposes and on which you fundamentally disagree thoughout the whole game (im ME2 you can agree with him, in ME3 you don't even have that option anymore - the way it is is the way it is) even BEFORE you go to earth? So you suddenly abandon all your beliefs and goals, and take those of your direct enemy instead and bet on them the entire compiled war assets of the galaxy? And where does this shift happen? In the heart of that said enemy base, next door to a giant unfinished reaper made out of humans? In a room which entire floor is filled with reaper cables and tech? Cool story, right. 

Modifié par demersel, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:17 .