80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

BatmanTurian wrote...

So apparently Byne made up IT just to ****** off people who choose control and synthesis. Well done, Byne.

/sarcasm

Seriously, Ieldra says the endings are morally devisive, then doesn't realize why they're devisive (because they're making you think like a Reaper). Also, apparently people have different moral compasses and we should respect that.

Oh wait, we don't. People with different moral compasses than the norm commit crimes and receive punishment.

Then there's Xil, who just wants to save everyone, even omnicidal cyborg frankenstein machines.

Honestly, control and synth people are just loopy. They're indoctrinated (with a lower case i, the regular indoctrinated) and don't even realize it. They are defending the indefensible, committed to the unthinkable, call anyone else who thinks differently zealots, and clearly have no ability to objectively consider that they might be completely wrong or just not thinking clearly. As intelligent as they wish to appear, they just seem to lack the necessary cognitive function of the brain to comprehend critical reasoning. I'm just sick of them all.

Just realized how much I sound like Rif in ths post. I'm tired, writing a novel, and when I get on a roll, I have really bad insomnia. I'm not sure what Rif's excuse is but it's cool. He's the honey badger. The honey badger doesn't give a sh*t.

[BleedingUranium]

BatmanTurian wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

So apparently Byne made up IT just to ****** off people who choose control and synthesis. Well done, Byne.

/sarcasm

Seriously, Ieldra says the endings are morally devisive, then doesn't realize why they're devisive (because they're making you think like a Reaper). Also, apparently people have different moral compasses and we should respect that.

Oh wait, we don't. People with different moral compasses than the norm commit crimes and receive punishment.

Then there's Xil, who just wants to save everyone, even omnicidal cyborg frankenstein machines.

Honestly, control and synth people are just loopy. They're indoctrinated (with a lower case i, the regular indoctrinated) and don't even realize it. They are defending the indefensible, committed to the unthinkable, call anyone else who thinks differently zealots, and clearly have no ability to objectively consider that they might be completely wrong or just not thinking clearly. As intelligent as they wish to appear, they just seem to lack the necessary cognitive function of the brain to comprehend critical reasoning. I'm just sick of them all.

Just realized how much I sound like Rif in ths post. I'm tired, writing a novel, and when I get on a roll, I have really bad insomnia. I'm not sure what Rif's excuse is but it's cool. He's the honey badger. The honey badger doesn't give a sh*t.

Actually, I fully agree with all of this.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Andromidius]

I agree too, and it gets me angry. So I'm just going to say it as it is from now on to them.

Synthesis fans support rape. Control fans support fascism and enslavement.  Both believe in Space Magic, and reject Science Fiction.

I don't care if its true or not. People who criticise us don't value truth or facts when it comes to verbally attacking us, so why should we?  If I'm guilty of 'genocide', then Xil, you're guilty of it too since you're best buddies with the Reapers now.

Modifié par Andromidius, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[spotlessvoid]

BT, that thread is filled with pure stupid. Who cares about convincing them. They don't debate honestly anyways. Just an endless parade of dumb. IT or not, synthesis is pure fail. Put it like this: If we're wrong it's not because they're right.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Andromidius wrote...

I agree too, and it gets me angry. So I'm just going to say it as it is from now on to them.

Synthesis fans support rape. Control fans support fascism and enslavement.  Both believe in Space Magic, and reject Science Fiction.

I don't care if its true or not. People who criticise us don't value truth or facts when it comes to verbally attacking us, so why should we?

Because if we believe we are better than them we should show it.

True I am no saint and i had some pretty serious anger management issues in the past. I can get very worked up, but when it happens I prefer not to post at all. But when i do post i try to use facts and logic without resorting to swearing.

It dosent always work out as I cross the line at times, but if they insist on insulting me, calling me stupid, then I want to have a solid place to fight back from. They may not acknowledge it or make increasingly more ludicrouis explanations but as long as I know that I am the one pulling my facts from the games I have the more solid ground.

[BleedingUranium]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

I agree too, and it gets me angry. So I'm just going to say it as it is from now on to them.

Synthesis fans support rape. Control fans support fascism and enslavement.  Both believe in Space Magic, and reject Science Fiction.

I don't care if its true or not. People who criticise us don't value truth or facts when it comes to verbally attacking us, so why should we?

Because if we believe we are better than them we should show it.

True I am no saint and i had some pretty serious anger management issues in the past. I can get very worked up, but when it happens I prefer not to post at all. But when i do post i try to use facts and logic without resorting to swearing.

It dosent always work out as I cross the line at times, but if they insist on insulting me, calling me stupid, then I want to have a solid place to fight back from. They may not acknowledge it or make increasingly more ludicrouis explanations but as long as I know that I am the one pulling my facts from the games I have the more solid ground.

This is the only thing keeping me from engaging them most of the time. We have the facts and evidence on our side; with that, I don't really care to debate them. Partly because it's not an even fight, it's not IT vs literal, it's just IT (or "I") and they're just wrong.

I don't need a flashing neon sign telling me "YOU'RE BEING INDOCTRINATED" to know what's going on, all we need is right there and obvious. I know not everyone shares my confidence here, and that's okay, but I'm 100% sure we're right. The only thing I'm not sure of is what Bioware plans on doing about it, but I'm optimistic they will give us a finale.

Playing a new game's story (Halo 4) has given me some fresh perspective on what we're dealing with in terms of an IT reveal. If you've played it, the very end of The Composer (mission 7) is exactly where we are in ME3, and all of Midnight (mission 8) is what we're missing. And that mission is one of my favourites in the entire Halo series. ME3 suicide mission-level favourite. That shows how terrible it would be to leave ME3 where it is.

Whatever we get, it will be epic. Count on it.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[Andromidius]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Because if we believe we are better than them we should show it.

I only give respect to those who return it.

[Gwyphon]

It's a flame war. It stopped being a debate a while ago. So much unwarranted hate...
Takes me back to my christian private school where the most preachy where the loud and proud atheists who were very much against preaching. People will never hear themselves as others do, I guess.

[BleedingUranium]

Gwyphon wrote...

It's a flame war. It stopped being a debate a while ago. So much unwarranted hate...
Takes me back to my christian private school where the most preachy where the loud and proud atheists who were very much against preaching. People will never hear themselves as others do, I guess.

I'm an atheist and I don't preach, but I know that's not the point you were making.

[Leonia]

As an atheist, I have witnessed the reverse effect, Gwyphon, but see your point. All you can do is hold your head up high and lead by example. Either people get it or they don't but there's no need for hatred and vitriol.

We're rapidly approaching the 2 week mark on the wait for Omega. It's time to bunker down and get ready for new speculations. Pull up a chair, pour your favourite beverage and bask in the glory of sitting on the moral high ground while the rest tear each other apart.

Ideas are not so easily broken.

Modifié par leonia42, 11 novembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BT, that thread is filled with pure stupid. Who cares about convincing them. They don't debate honestly anyways. Just an endless parade of dumb. IT or not, synthesis is pure fail. Put it like this: If we're wrong it's not because they're right.

I'm just venting because I'm tired and grouchy. Most of the time I try to play nice, but it's become difficult now since synthesis and control people have gone way into headcanon territory. Then there's the fact that they feel threatened by IT, as if we somehow change their game. Bioware would be the one to do that, so it's misplaced paranoia. They can see the ending however they like, but it doesn't mean they're right. Why be so insecure about your interpretation to go so far as to say we are trying to ruin synthesis and control endings? Hate to break it to them, but Synthesis and Control were already ruined by two villians and an entire dlc from ME2 and it's not an association fallacy if the writer clearly intends to show that those roads are supported by evil, brainwashed people.

There's what they want Synthesis and Control to be, and then there's what the writers imply what they are throughout the series. Instead of focusing on what you wish it was, one should focus on the writer's intention. The writer's intention is that any Reaper or Reaper-agent advocating control or synthesis is your enemy. Also there is no way Starbinger is lying about what Destroy does because he's trying to disuade you from it. At best, he is telling half-truths, Control and Synth? Absolute fabrications from the viewpoint of the writer's intentions. Why, in the ninth inning, all-bases-loaded, would your enemy offer you the things it wants and you would just take it at its word that it just wants peace and accept your enemy's terms?

Control and Synthesis is submission, different ways, but both submission. Destroy and refusal are refutations of the enemy's manipulation attempt, except refusal is giving up and not doing anything, leaving your friends to die.

So, logically, only Destroy makes sense, since it is EXACTLY what your enemy doesn't want you to pick since he is clearly trying to dissuade you from it. This is just basic logic and storytelling. To deny all this out of spite would make you appear to have room-temperature IQ.

And that's not even touching the whole idea of saving psychopathic spaceship cyborgs that intend to use you for biofuel out of some kind of misguided sense of naive morality.

Sorry if I sound arrogant or insulting. I just get tired of the BS(N) every once in a while and need to vent. Going to go get some sleep now.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 11 novembre 2012 - 11:15 .

[Gwyphon]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

It's a flame war. It stopped being a debate a while ago. So much unwarranted hate...
Takes me back to my christian private school where the most preachy where the loud and proud atheists who were very much against preaching. People will never hear themselves as others do, I guess.

I'm an atheist and I don't preach, but I know that's not the point you were making.

Same. There's a fine line between informing and imposing. 

[demersel]

THinking about arashi08 post and agree completely - the ending is a choice, and is a test - but of you - what kind of person are you when it comes down to it. Of course there is right and wrong answers. but the whole point of it is that you're not told which is which.
You're supposed to not know, so you can't just load the save and be pick the right option right away.
What really saddens me is the EC - all that stuff is really not neaded. I really like the endings as they used to be - and the emotions i got out of them - out of that expirience in the decision room, on the citadel, even beam run - all of it. And i'm really really sad, that because i once hit purchase on the EC , because was too curious about - no i won't have that original ending.

Edit. but to be completely honest, i have not yet finished my game with the EC installed, and not played through it myself. While it was still downloading, i accidentally saw people speking of the normandy pick up scene - and could not believe it exists for real - so went to youtube and watched it before the download finished.  Who knows, maybe if you play through it yourself, with your personal save it does not feel like the cheap tacked-on fan-fic. 

Modifié par demersel, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[JMDekker2]

Heh, the BSN in general makes me die a little inside with the amount of ignorance, not that that's in any way different to the rest of the internet, or the rest of the world. Reading this thread gives me hope.

[hukbum]

Most people on BSN don't even realize what hate can do. Hate blinds you. Hate binds you to the thing you hate more than love can ever do. There's a reason why I said "I don't like the ending" ...

And (for me) about not liking the ending:
Bioware has to do something. IT or not - but with the endings as they stand they've created something that heavily supports racism, genocide, policestate, rape, fear and so on.
If nothing will be done about that I'll be done with Bioware. This is not my line of thought and I will never support anything that gives a voice to people who think that way.

All negativity aside - EC always felt like throwing a bone to me. They said from the very beginning that they're not done jet. I just hope they'll keep their promise.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[Gwyphon]

In all honesty I think Bioware is kind of at a lose-lose situation here. If they do fix the endings with DLC people will be up in arms that they are making you pay for a real ending and the trilogy will be remembered as money milking. If they don't then people are going to forever remember the end of the trilogy as a disappointment.
A possible solution is making a fully fledged new game that really finishes the trilogy... Get's you thinking about how they were so eager to announce a new me game, hey?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

OR
They could make the ending DLC free.
THEN
Make more DLC that isn't free to actually make money after.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

demersel wrote...

THinking about arashi08 post and agree completely - the ending is a choice, and is a test - but of you - what kind of person are you when it comes down to it. Of course there is right and wrong answers. but the whole point of it is that you're not told which is which.
You're supposed to not know, so you can't just load the save and be pick the right option right away.
What really saddens me is the EC - all that stuff is really not neaded. I really like the endings as they used to be - and the emotions i got out of them - out of that expirience in the decision room, on the citadel, even beam run - all of it. And i'm really really sad, that because i once hit purchase on the EC , because was too curious about - no i won't have that original ending.

Edit. but to be completely honest, i have not yet finished my game with the EC installed, and not played through it myself. While it was still downloading, i accidentally saw people speking of the normandy pick up scene - and could not believe it exists for real - so went to youtube and watched it before the download finished.  Who knows, maybe if you play through it yourself, with your personal save it does not feel like the cheap tacked-on fan-fic. 

It dosent...

I played the EC and the moment I saw the Normandy pickup scene I closed the game down and jumped to youtube, cutting straight to the Catalyst scene. Watched it...and then went back to this thread and face palmed at all the people coming in and saying EC disproved IT.

The Normandy pickup scene if litteral makes no goddamn sense. Several characters in your squad act out of character, including Shepard no matter how you may have played him/her. I mean seriusly even the most Paragon Shepard went on the Suicide Mission in ME2 knowing full well what might happen and the stakes are infinitely higher this time. And would someone explain what is keeping EDI on the Normandy? She is in no danger charging down the hill alongside Shepard as everything that makes her her is on the Normandy.

Oh and then there is Harbinger who after beeing absent the entire game comes of a as a blind moron who cant see or shot down a freaking oversized Frigate hovering within 100m of him and who dosent double check that the greatest enemy of the Reapers is dead before flying of.

Seriusly that entire scene slaps me more in the face as beeing unreal than Catalyst with his ridicoulous logic because I can at least imagine a broken AI coming up with that bull**** logic...but this was established characters on both sides....

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:40 .

[demersel]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


It dosent...

I played the EC and the moment I saw the Normandy pickup scene I closed the game down and jumped to youtube, cutting straight to the Catalyst scene. Watched it...and then went back to this thread and face palmed at all the people coming in and saying EC disproved IT.

The Normandy pickup scene if litteral makes no goddamn sense. Several characters in your squad act out of character, including Shepard no matter how you may have played him/her. I mean seriusly even the most Paragon Shepard went on the Suicide Mission in ME2 knowing full well what might happen and the stakes are infinitely higher this time. And would someone explain what is keeping EDI on the Normandy? She is in no danger charging down the hill alongside Shepard as everything that makes her her is on the Normandy.

Oh and then there is Harbinger who after beeing absent the entire game comes of a as a blind moron who cant see or shot down a freaking oversized Frigate hovering within 100m of him and who dosent double check that the greatest enemy of the Reapers is dead before flying of.

Seriusly that entire scene slaps me more in the face as beeing unreal than Catalyst with his ridicoulous logic because I can at least imagine a broken AI coming up with that bull**** logic...but this was established characters on both sides....

Yeah if anything EC did - is killed any ambiguety of the ending being real or not. Normandy pick up just can't be real. And showed, pretty blatanlty at that, it is not just the ending sequence after harbinger's beam that is not real - it goes deeper says EC. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Hm.... Shepards armor, charred armor that is, is black + the color of light reflecting off it:

Light of the Crucible energy:


Light of the Citadel/Arms control room:


Breathe scene, Shep's body, brightened image:



Heavy blue reflection.... Light of the conduit, possible, pointed out by Arian Dynas in Mark I but I didn't take a closer look and analyze until now. Not likely to be light of the Crucible (also blue) because that was supposed to have exploded in Destroy.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:49 .

[demersel]

What if, since ME4 will have a completely different character - it will feature a system of character generation very much like the one from DA:O - which was very succesfull and very well recieved? So you play though completely different opening act, depeding on your character race? And it would be really not that much trouble to include one secret origin story - for those who import the save with High EMS destroy - in that case, and only in that case you get to play as your Sheprad, What do you guys think?

[Gwyphon]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

... Is that... Kotor 2? At that stupid sith training facility? MEMORIES!

[demersel]

Gwyphon wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

... Is that... Kotor 2? At that stupid sith training facility? MEMORIES!

No. It is KoTOR 1 - from the sith academy on Korriban. 

[Gwyphon]

demersel wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

... Is that... Kotor 2? At that stupid sith training facility? MEMORIES!

No. It is KoTOR 1 - from the sith academy on Korriban. 

Curses!
Edit: Consolidatory top!

Modifié par Gwyphon, 11 novembre 2012 - 12:59 .