80611 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

HagarIshay wrote...

So what do you think is the message the Reapers are trying to pass to Shepard through the kid in the dreams, with Shepard running after him, him burning, when Shepard burns with him?

Or you just take the version that is wirtten in the art book, that he's the face of the people on Earth Shepard couldn't save?

Definately not the face. It's purpose is to make Shepard feel sorry about the kid he couldn't have saved so that the Catalyst can use this image to easily deceive Shepard and make him choose wrongly. It's just that during the conversation with the Catalyst Shepard would consider that listening to the child is a form of redemption.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 06:57 .

[TJBartlemus]

RavenEyry wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

So I'm gone for a night and suddenly, a storm of negative waves. Estebanus steps down from believer to supporter, everyone's freaking out over Chris' comment. *sigh*

It's not everyone, just the vocal ones. You're about the fifth person to ask why everyone's so grumpy.

Wait. What did Chris say? 

[Simon_Says]

YOU HAVE FAILED, SIMON. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 04 août 2012 - 06:59 .

[RavenEyry]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Wait. What did Chris say? 

He said they would never alter the ending in any way. Then he said Leviathan will alter the ending. In the same post. Like absolutely everything, this of course, disproves IT completely.

[Dwailing]

RavenEyry wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Wait. What did Chris say? 

He said they would never alter the ending in any way. Then he said Leviathan will alter the ending. In the same post. Like absolutely everything, this of course, disproves IT completely.

Because as we ALL know, BioWare NEVER lies.

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

So I'm gone for a night and suddenly, a storm of negative waves. Estebanus steps down from believer to supporter, everyone's freaking out over Chris' comment. *sigh*

It's not everyone, just the vocal ones. You're about the fifth person to ask why everyone's so grumpy.

Wait. What did Chris say? 

He basically said that BioWare isn't going to change the ending any further but Leviathan DLC and future DLC will change the ending.

[Home run MF]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Home run MF wrote...
As for the humility, the Counicl races have been in power for centuries, did you expect them to believe a human, a recently 'discovered' race, and follow her around? I understand the way the council acts, I may not agree with them, but that's politics for you.

She saved them all numerous times, so YES. She saved them from the reapers and the geth and saved them on the ship and saved the citadel in one despite their best efforts to get themselves harvested.

Then she saved them again by stopping the reapers from coming through the relay which they punished her for. She also saved them by destroying the collectors because who thinks the collectors would stop with humans? They were just the first to be culled probably because of shep.

So yes, I did expect it as she earned it. Just because you are recently discovered doesn't mean that you have nothing to offer or are inferior in any way. Recently discovered, in fact, means nothing other than you have been ignornant of their existence until then. Now that's not anybody's fault but don't say it like it automatically means there is inferiority because that's how it sounds and now you sound like the arrogant council members who were the main problem in the entire series. They undermined at every turn.

Do you remember that Spectre in the Kasumi mission? The one that says Thanks, Shepard. And for the record--not everyone doubted your concerns about the Reapers. I just hope we're not too late.

There is part of the posters in this thread (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that think there is something in the Citadel that keeps them oblivious to war. Call it indoctrination or whatever you want.

[paxxton]

Simon_Says wrote...

YOU HAVE FAILED, SIMON. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.

The link worked.

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

Otter went back to luker mode, but Estebanus is just saying he thinks IT is not what Bioware had planed from the beginning.

[Simon_Says]

paxxton wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

YOU HAVE FAILED, SIMON. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.

The link worked.

It was the wrong link.

[Dwailing]

masster blaster wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

Otter went back to luker mode, but Estebanus is just saying he thinks IT is not what Bioware had planed from the beginning.

Then how do you explain all the clues that suggest IT was their plan?  There's no precident for BioWare overlooking this many things, and writing this bad of an ending.  The main reason I believe in IT is because I believe that BioWare couldn't mess up this badly.  It just isn't possible.

[paxxton]

starlitegirlx wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

So what do you think is the message the Reapers are trying to pass to Shepard through the kid in the dreams, with Shepard running after him, him burning, when Shepard burns with him?

Or you just take the version that is wirtten in the art book, that he's the face of the people on Earth Shepard couldn't save?

Definately not the face. It's purpose is to make Shepard feel sorry about the kid he couldn't have saved so that the Catalyst can use this image to easily deceive Shepard and make him choose wrongly. It's just that during the conversation with the Catalyst Shepard would consider that listening to the child is a form of redemption.

Or be more open to suggestions that coming from anything other than the sole reresentation of your guilt would be something you'd seriously ponder and by seriously ponder I mean remember that Saren went synthesis and remember how he turned out in the last scene of ME1? Not so good. And Tim wanted control which truly speaks volumes, nevermind the fact that who would honestly trust that a million year old VI race of killing machines would let this human they want to harvest control them? They see organics as waste to be recycled and enslaved. That's been made abundantly clear all the way back to ME1. But now the kid says here, you've changed everything so we'll or I'll let you control all of us. What idiot would believe that load of bull? There's zero precedence to trust such a thing and it's such a leap of faith that's based in no logic it's screams disaster.

That's what feeling guilt and being desperate at the same time make people do. Seek redemption where there is really none. Simply put, Shepard is screwed.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 07:16 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Simon_Says wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

So what do you think is the message the Reapers are trying to pass to Shepard through the kid in the dreams, with Shepard running after him, him burning, when Shepard burns with him?

Or you just take the version that is wirtten in the art book, that he's the face of the people on Earth Shepard couldn't save?

Bioware has pretty much confirmed that the child in the dreams symbolizes the lives lost and destroyed by the reapers. The dreams then are a manifestation of or an attempt to impress on Shepard a serious case of survivor guilt. The Catalyst appears as the child no doubt to confront Shepard with that guilt, possibly to dissuade Shepard from destroy (more lives lost and destroyed) and convince them to pick Control or Synthesis (Shepard pays back 'the debt', no more lives lost on Shepard's account).

Basically, your question assumes a false dichotomy. It's both.

Indoctrination itself act very intelligent past previous games, it was proved by all events which including indoctrinated victims. Saren thought that the can save his mind from indoctrination until Sovereign implant him with upgrades, Kenson thought it´s bad to stop the project and TIM thought he can control the Reapers and implant himself with Reaper technology. It´s not just some simple magnetic fields or ultrasounds which rewrite mind of their victim, but it´s more like intelligent cypher or virus which is frequently spoling victim´s mind.

[Norlond]

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

[paxxton]

Simon_Says wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

YOU HAVE FAILED, SIMON. WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.

The link worked.

It was the wrong link.

So did he say more today?

[BansheeOwnage]

Dwailing wrote...

Then how do you explain all the clues that suggest IT was their plan?  There's no precident for BioWare overlooking this many things, and writing this bad of an ending.  The main reason I believe in IT is because I believe that BioWare couldn't mess up this badly.  It just isn't possible.

Yeah same. I wrote something about that a few days ago. I'll see if I can find it...

Well it's not really that simple, but if I had to stick to one piece of evidence, I would go with this:

The utter improbability that Bioware would write such an awesome, deep game with such great lore and characters, then apparently forget all of those characters, break the lore, and release a generally unsatisfying end the their awesome trilogy. The end of ME3 is arguably the most important part of the series. But then, after that, release more awesomely written DLC. How could they be awesome, screw up very badly, then be awesome again? Doesn't make any sense! So my biggest piece of IT evidence is BW screwing up that badly, because it simply makes less sense than the endings!

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

Otter went back to luker mode, but Estebanus is just saying he thinks IT is not what Bioware had planed from the beginning.

I'm saying that Bioware never used nor will use the IT. I am, by definition, a literalist.

[estebanus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

You're only losing me as a colleague. Not as a friend.

[TJBartlemus]

RavenEyry wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Wait. What did Chris say? 

He said they would never alter the ending in any way. Then he said Leviathan will alter the ending. In the same post. Like absolutely everything, this of course, disproves IT completely.

Could someone link me that post? 

PS. Could someone go over to the WNT thread and start up a discussion? It's too quiet in there....and I really could use some high thinking speculators like Byne, TSA, and others to analyse what I have posted. Particularily the section about Arrival...

[paxxton]

TJBartlemus wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Wait. What did Chris say? 

He said they would never alter the ending in any way. Then he said Leviathan will alter the ending. In the same post. Like absolutely everything, this of course, disproves IT completely.

Could someone link me that post? 

PS. Could someone go over to the WNT thread and start up a discussion? It's too quiet in there....and I really could use some high thinking speculators like Byne, TSA, and others to analyse what I have posted. Particularily the section about Arrival...

Sorry, I closed the tab where I had it. At least I think that it was what you asked about.

[BansheeOwnage]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Calm down Banshee, I'm not going anywhere. I'm still a supporter, but I'm just not a believer any more. I'll still be around here, just not as one of you.

Did you watch Anderson's motivational vids?

I did, but they didn't really help.

:/ 

Have to think of something... We've lost some ITers because they jumped to conclusion about things we've already heard. We can't lose you too...

Otter went back to luker mode, but Estebanus is just saying he thinks IT is not what Bioware had planed from the beginning.

I'm saying that Bioware never used nor will use the IT. I am, by definition, a literalist.

I don't see how they didn't intend it. There is so much evidence that points to them intending it. The question is will they expand upon it. I cannot emphasize how much I want them to, because if they don't I'll be left with no ending to the awesome series.  I just want my squadmate/LI closure!