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[Davik Kang]

Restrider wrote...

@ Rif:
Do you have more of those funny images showing how Jacob is boring? I sure like those.
Edit: Top with Jacob bashing... now that's good! Oh, and shameless promotion, since it's top!

What do you think of the first set of results btw?  I think they sum up a lot of the characters really well.  I disagree with a couple but we're all bound to do that.  You can also see four distinct sections emerging thanks to your table - Paragon, Neutral/Paragon, Neutral/Renegade and Renegade.

The new polls are a bit more complicated which is probably why they're not receiving so many votes.  There's also the fact that they're kind of obscured at the top of an old thread.  Might be worth making 2 new threads with the original as a template?

[masster blaster]

I think we rather keep our own form.

No without us to stop it Synthetics will kill Organics.


I call BS. If that's the case then tanks for stoping the Geth oh wait didn't you Indoctrinated them and used them to kill thousand of Organics on the Citadel, Edin Prime and various planets. Ya yyou did your job. Oh what's that Javik our Prothean friends days the Reapers use the Synthetics to kill Organics. Ya wIt to go brat.

But your takeing away our future. With out a future we have no hope, and with out hope we might as well be Machins programmed to be do what we are told.


Oh look at Control your programmed to be do what you are told. No honestly did the Catalyst say he is going bye bye, no did it say that ya I am really going to let you Control the Reapers because you are commander Shepard. Ya no it's more like Well if you pick Control then I can- I mean you can Control the Reapers.


Honestly Shepard is just lost, and we again are Shepard.

If the player is lost so is Shepard.

If the player knows what to do, then you did it you beaten Indoctrination

It just comes down to " Hey did you read the codex, and pay attention to what the Indoctrinated people say? Oh and did you see the ensing crazy right and did you not get our hints/ hey what did you think about Destroy?"

Honest game said " so what did you think about Destroy"

Hello hint hint wink wink.

Honest my Histroy teacher always when something his coming up he tells us what may come, and gives a hint hint wink wink sign.

[masster blaster]

Oh and again why is Joker happy in Destroy? It makes no god dam sense if you think literaly. Joker should be caring EDI's body out, or not even get out. He should be crying his *** off, unless it's just an ilusion.


It's like reachin of memories Sora knows well in the beginning that every door he opens is a world he/she has been to. Honest the leader of the Organization ( well not the Leader per say) tell Sora that

" The card is a cration of your memories"

And hey look what happences to Sora in the end he falls for the fake world, yet thanks to Gooff, and Donald the snap Sora out of it.

[Restrider]

Davik Kang wrote...

What do you think of the first set of results btw?  I think they sum up a lot of the characters really well.  I disagree with a couple but we're all bound to do that.  You can also see four distinct sections emerging thanks to your table - Paragon, Neutral/Paragon, Neutral/Renegade and Renegade.

The new polls are a bit more complicated which is probably why they're not receiving so many votes.  There's also the fact that they're kind of obscured at the top of an old thread.  Might be worth making 2 new threads with the original as a template?

A couple of results surprised me aswell. For instance I thought Jacob would be more in the Paragon/Neutral department (I would say that James is more Paragon than Jacob).  Furthermore I would've changed Samara and Garrus. You may say that Samara is über-Paragon, but she acts in her set of rules while Garrus is more flexible in his actions and in general I'd say that Garrus is more Paragon than Samara, though that's again just me. In the Renegade department the results for Saren are too Paragon imho, indoctrination or not, he has always been Renegade.

I understand that the new polls are a bit complicated, but once you understand the meaning of the different traits it's actually a nice way to define the characters better. Paragon/Renegade alone is too one-dimensional for that, and I were one of those who pointed that out. Maybe others are afraid or too lazy to do the polls and maybe they do not care to re-read a supposedly old thread. I don't know. I was quite surprised by the feedback of the first polls, (150-200 votes in most polls is a lot these days) in a few days.
I will observe how it pans out, I hope for a few more votes though (~50 per poll would be okay, 100 or more ideal).
What really strikes me is that nearly no one commented on the results...





I think it is one of the best ways to show results and really easy to get the data in one glance. And considering the amount of discussion the people on BSN had regarding the different characters and the total lack of discussion when you can base them on a lot of data and agree/disagree with them, is quite baffling.
But maybe the thread had its glory due to the aftermath of N7 day, who knows?

Edit: I've posted the results and a link to the thread. Voting is highly encouraged!

Modifié par Restrider, 11 novembre 2012 - 04:49 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and again why is Joker happy in Destroy? It makes no god dam sense if you think literaly. Joker should be caring EDI's body out, or not even get out. He should be crying his *** off, unless it's just an ilusion.


It's like reachin of memories Sora knows well in the beginning that every door he opens is a world he/she has been to. Honest the leader of the Organization ( well not the Leader per say) tell Sora that

" The card is a cration of your memories"

And hey look what happences to Sora in the end he falls for the fake world, yet thanks to Gooff, and Donald the snap Sora out of it.

I can tell you that this one is played again in Kingdom Hearts: Dream. Drop. Distance.

For the sake of avoiding spoilers i wont go to much into details, but let us just say that the villian plays of Sora´s memories of his friends to lead him into a trap...which Riku and several of Sora´s friends (including a suprise appereance) has to bail him out of.

Oh and a plot for one of my own stories which I planned before ME3 features the main character battling the villian for control of his own mind. Hint, he only wins when the person he loves comes to his help.

In short listen to what your friends and loved ones tells you, not the self introduced leader of your enemies. Same enemies who have been reponsible for the deaths of several of your fiends and you yourself at one point.

[masster blaster]

Majare and lord and behold ME3. It's simple, yet people just don't see past the vail.


Oh and just to point out possible Conventinal victory.


" No we can not. But we will meet them in battle none the less."

Cookie for anyone that's gets that reference.

Modifié par masster blaster, 11 novembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

Why is Javik so much more renegade then TIM? If you compare the Prothean empire and Cerberus you would see they are basically the same. But heeey I don't get most of what people are thinking because most is just emotional rambling, esp here

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 11 novembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[masster blaster]

Man I feel sorry for Zaeed. Not a single person picked Paragon for him. He has helped people and saved a gril before. That gives him some credit, and did he not kill two of Cerberus goons when he heard that Shepard was coming.

He is so nice. But ya Zaeed and Javik should meet. They would get along just fine.


Oh an specking of Javik um isn't it weird that Javik goes around the ship touching the floor to see who has been here.

I thought it was cool, but I never did fully listen to the conversation you have with Javik when he is moving around the ship.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

masster blaster wrote...

Majare and lord and behold ME3. It's simple, yet people just don't see past the vail.


Oh and just to point out possible Conventinal victory.


" No we can not. But we will meet them in battle none the less."

Cookie for anyone that's gets that reference.

Theoden, Lord of the Rings.

And while appropiate there is one major problem between the Lord of the Rings where the quote is uttered and the scene you are applying it to in Mass Effect.

Theodens quote was quite true when he uttered it. Without the intervention of the Army of the Dead (or rather just standard reinforcements as it was in the book, the Army of the Dead were used elsewhere) they would have lost at Minas Tirith.

The big problem is that we dont have any reinforcements like the army of the dead which can come in and save the day in Mass Effect 3 (unless the Rachni build one hell of an armada while we werent looking). Everything we have, everything we could scavenge together is at Earth.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 11 novembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Davik Kang]

Restrider wrote...
A couple of results surprised me aswell. For instance I thought Jacob would be more in the Paragon/Neutral department (I would say that James is more Paragon than Jacob).  Furthermore I would've changed Samara and Garrus. You may say that Samara is über-Paragon, but she acts in her set of rules while Garrus is more flexible in his actions and in general I'd say that Garrus is more Paragon than Samara, though that's again just me. In the Renegade department the results for Saren are too Paragon imho, indoctrination or not, he has always been Renegade.

I agree about Jacob.  However Samara for me is pure Neutral (or near enough), so if ppl think Garrus is more Renegade than Paragon, then I'd agree by extension that he's more Renegade than Samara.  

Saren does seem to be highly Renegade, though he is a leader, and in a way, effective leadership traits require at least some Paragon attributes I think.  To actually call him MORE Paragon than Renegade (I'll ignore the possibility of trolling for now) probably lends weight to his ultimate goal to save more people by submitting rather than resisting the Reapers.

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Why is Javik so much more renegade then TIM? If you compare the Prothean empire and Cerberus you would see they are basically the same. But heeey I don't get most of what people are thinking because most is just emotional rambling, esp here

I think he is more Renegade though.  He is entirely uncompromising from what I've seen, and sees nothing other than the Destruction of the Reapers as a worthy goal, no matter the cost.  

TIM on the other hand, though his methods are clearly 'ends justify means', also rebuilds Shepard, wants to protect and uplift humanity, and wants to control rather than destroy the Reapers.  These may be bad motives, but Renegade isn't evil or bad.  Like with Udina, I think there are quite a few Paragon traits in TIM, and through that we can see why pure Paragon or pure Renegade, without sound reasoning behind decisions, can be just as bad.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 11 novembre 2012 - 05:20 .

[MegumiAzusa]

masster blaster wrote...

Man I feel sorry for Zaeed. Not a single person picked Paragon for him. He has helped people and saved a gril before. That gives him some credit, and did he not kill two of Cerberus goons when he heard that Shepard was coming.

He is so nice. But ya Zaeed and Javik should meet. They would get along just fine.


Oh an specking of Javik um isn't it weird that Javik goes around the ship touching the floor to see who has been here.

I thought it was cool, but I never did fully listen to the conversation you have with Javik when he is moving around the ship.

For Javik it's your own fault if you don't listen.

For Zaeed: I don't see him one bit on another side but money before ME3.

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

Man I feel sorry for Zaeed. Not a single person picked Paragon for him. He has helped people and saved a gril before. That gives him some credit, and did he not kill two of Cerberus goons when he heard that Shepard was coming.

He is so nice. But ya Zaeed and Javik should meet. They would get along just fine.


Oh an specking of Javik um isn't it weird that Javik goes around the ship touching the floor to see who has been here.

I thought it was cool, but I never did fully listen to the conversation you have with Javik when he is moving around the ship.

You do know that renegade isn't evil or bad, right?

[estebanus]

masster blaster wrote...

Majare and lord and behold ME3. It's simple, yet people just don't see past the vail.


Oh and just to point out possible Conventinal victory.


" No we can not. But we will meet them in battle none the less."

Cookie for anyone that's gets that reference.

I bet it was some fool who said that. He probably then proceeded to send all his men off to war against a force way more powerful than his, and then died miserably by getting a pike shoved through his belly.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Man I feel sorry for Zaeed. Not a single person picked Paragon for him. He has helped people and saved a gril before. That gives him some credit, and did he not kill two of Cerberus goons when he heard that Shepard was coming.

He is so nice. But ya Zaeed and Javik should meet. They would get along just fine.


Oh an specking of Javik um isn't it weird that Javik goes around the ship touching the floor to see who has been here.

I thought it was cool, but I never did fully listen to the conversation you have with Javik when he is moving around the ship.

For Javik it's your own fault if you don't listen.

For Zaeed: I don't see him one bit on another side but money before ME3.

Yeah, Zaeed is purely in the renegade department.

Hell if you read the Shadowbroker log on him there is an entry where he thinks about how to retire. One of his ideas include buying a ship, alot of explosives and go suicide flying on Omega. Calls it the easiest retirement plan he has had so far

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

estebanus wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Majare and lord and behold ME3. It's simple, yet people just don't see past the vail.


Oh and just to point out possible Conventinal victory.


" No we can not. But we will meet them in battle none the less."

Cookie for anyone that's gets that reference.

I bet it was some fool who said that. He probably then proceeded to send all his men off to war against a force way more powerful than his, and then died miserably by getting a pike shoved through his belly.

Nope, this guy routed the force he assaulted, but then got beaten back by enemy reinforcements. His death was also more of a result of getting a horse dropped on him than anything else

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Why is Javik so much more renegade then TIM? If you compare the Prothean empire and Cerberus you would see they are basically the same. But heeey I don't get most of what people are thinking because most is just emotional rambling, esp here

Don't blame me, blame the indoctrinated masses voting

[demersel]

So i'm playing the tuchanca gure the genophage mission - it is weird. Just had another "I was bourne in london - Really??" moment... You're in a transport with your squad, Wrex, Eve and Mordin. You have a conversation about curing the genophage. Wrex says that they need to expand - reclaim the glory of the anciant krogans - you can ask - what were they like - Eve answer - they were great and proud people - Mordin, asks - Until the Genophage? - Eve says - no. We destroyed our selves.

What the hell?? Why would mordin even ask that? He explicitly told you in both ME2 and ME3 that the genophage is not what destroyed krogan society - they did it themselves even before salarians found them and uplifted to ealry, before they worked things out on their own.

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Man I feel sorry for Zaeed. Not a single person picked Paragon for him. He has helped people and saved a gril before. That gives him some credit, and did he not kill two of Cerberus goons when he heard that Shepard was coming.

He is so nice. But ya Zaeed and Javik should meet. They would get along just fine.


Oh an specking of Javik um isn't it weird that Javik goes around the ship touching the floor to see who has been here.

I thought it was cool, but I never did fully listen to the conversation you have with Javik when he is moving around the ship.

For Javik it's your own fault if you don't listen.

For Zaeed: I don't see him one bit on another side but money before ME3.

If you want to discuss the results, post in the Character Thread (see signature), it could use a little bit more posts from people that are not me :happy:

[Andromidius]

Huh. So, when talking to James post-Citadel attack, he talks about his fight with the Collectors. And mentioned one of the colonists was a Cerberus spy working with the Collectors.

But this was during Shepard's time with Cerberus, when they were fighting against the Collectors to seize their technology. So that doesn't add up.

Either James was incorrect at guessing the spy was with Cerberus, or... I don't know. Its just a weird detail that doesn't add up.

[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Someone else gotten it wrong.

You know, this line: "Someone else might have gotten it wrong.", it's about Mordin and the Genophage cure, but on my first playthrough, every time it was said, it made me think it was a bit of ending foreshadowing. It made me think Shepard was going to have to make some big choice, and there was a chance of 'getting it wrong'.

IF there's ever going to be some kind of IT reveal, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Garrus would say that line to Shepard (after beating indoctrination).

[Davik Kang]

magnetite wrote...

I just get that urge to try and make sense of the ending for the literalists. I really should stop doing that. There's no point in trying.

I think there are some players who are genuinely curious about various interpretations, and who want to make sense of the ending, but there are some overly vociferous posters who obliterate any possibility of discussion with their consistent trolling.

I actually find it pretty funny how they come on the internet just to trash a game they don't like.  It's just a shame that it does upset a lot of players who just want to talk about stuff.  I don't really understand why the mods don't ban ppl like that.  I don;t think the problem is Literalists, I think it's specifically people who refuse to engage in open-minded discussion, instead posting insults and unfunny picture memes all over the place.

The forum rules say they don't tolerate that stuff, but really, I think that moderating this site is not an incentivised job (I assume for the most part it's unpaid work?) and so it's a lot easier for them just to close the occasional thread, than to actually take action against specific users and then have to justify it.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

So i'm playing the tuchanca gure the genophage mission - it is weird. Just had another "I was bourne in london - Really??" moment... You're in a transport with your squad, Wrex, Eve and Mordin. You have a conversation about curing the genophage. Wrex says that they need to expand - reclaim the glory of the anciant krogans - you can ask - what were they like - Eve answer - they were great and proud people - Mordin, asks - Until the Genophage? - Eve says - no. We destroyed our selves.

What the hell?? Why would mordin even ask that? He explicitly told you in both ME2 and ME3 that the genophage is not what destroyed krogan society - they did it themselves even before salarians found them and uplifted to ealry, before they worked things out on their own.

It wasn't a question. Also the problem here is Krogan society had cycles of its own. Prosperous then bombing themselves back to prosper again. The uplifting and later to finalize it the genophage broke that cycle.

[masster blaster]

Well to be far if the enemys allies didn't come then Rohan would have won. The Reapers have all the cards on the table right, or do they?

Oh and Oreo, or chips Ahoy!

[MegumiAzusa]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Someone else gotten it wrong.

You know, this line: "Someone else might have gotten it wrong.", it's about Mordin and the Genophage cure, but on my first playthrough, every time it was said, it made me think it was a bit of ending foreshadowing. It made me think Shepard was going to have to make some big choice, and there was a chance of 'getting it wrong'.

IF there's ever going to be some kind of IT reveal, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Garrus would say that line to Shepard (after beating indoctrination).

I know that, it just fit and also that was a joke.