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[DoomsdayDevice]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Someone else gotten it wrong.

You know, this line: "Someone else might have gotten it wrong.", it's about Mordin and the Genophage cure, but on my first playthrough, every time it was said, it made me think it was a bit of ending foreshadowing. It made me think Shepard was going to have to make some big choice, and there was a chance of 'getting it wrong'.

IF there's ever going to be some kind of IT reveal, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Garrus would say that line to Shepard (after beating indoctrination).

I know that, it just fit and also that was a joke.

Of course you know that, I didn't mean to say you didn't. I was just explaining myself. I worded that a little ambiguously, sorry. =)

[Davik Kang]

magnetite wrote...

Davik it takes 21 days or so to break a habit, so maybe I should use some add-ons to block every thread on this site except this one.

If you haven't done so already, just favourite the thread, that way you don't even need to navigate past all the garbage.

[Dark Delta 06]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Someone else gotten it wrong.

You know, this line: "Someone else might have gotten it wrong.", it's about Mordin and the Genophage cure, but on my first playthrough, every time it was said, it made me think it was a bit of ending foreshadowing. It made me think Shepard was going to have to make some big choice, and there was a chance of 'getting it wrong'.

IF there's ever going to be some kind of IT reveal, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Garrus would say that line to Shepard (after beating indoctrination).

If they decide to make a IT reveal,right now, I would be happy and mad at the same time LOL

Happy they finaly decided to use a theory that makes sense, and that shepard would live to fight in ME4.
Mad that they trolled people for not telling it all along.

But since I have the chronic problem of not being able to be mad at Bioware  it would be Awesome

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

magnetite wrote...

I just get that urge to try and make sense of the ending for the literalists. I really should stop doing that. There's no point in trying.

I think there are some players who are genuinely curious about various interpretations, and who want to make sense of the ending, but there are some overly vociferous posters who obliterate any possibility of discussion with their consistent trolling.

Indoctrination and Literal interpretations are valid, it's just the presentation that for me makes it into a three layered question.
Is this real?
Which is the right choice?
What is the result of each choice and the standard behind it?

It's not unprecedented to get an ending which is just an illusion, but the other ending explicitly explains that for that addon. With ME you can still ask all these questions even after playing through any yet possible way. ME has always included virtual spaces and control. It always included prejudice in an expert way, very good examples are Batarians, Geth, and Quarians, and shows how easy it is to act on them. It always also included morality displayed by Paragon/Renegade. The very last choice of the game combines all of these things, regardless if its literal or not.
Even if literal you are nudged to prefer synthesis or control over destroy. If indoctrination you are nudged to prefer destroy as a mean to get out, but still leaves open the possibility that you simply cannot know if your choice is a virtual or a real one. In that case you still have to weight the morality of these choices, and possible options.
Saying I will pick destroy without thinking about it because it's the only way not to be indoctrinated is nonsense as you just cannot know. If you do the wrong choice, esp with lower ems, hundreds of millions innocents die.

[masster blaster]

You know it's scary what happence to Jack and her students if you don't go save Grisson acadamy. She becomes a phantom, and so does one of her students, and the other an Cerberus soldier.

So Jack was right Cerberus is evil, and heck even Miranda realizes that Cerberus is evil.

Hello it actually was forshadow that Cerberus was inlined with the Reapers.


I mean experimenting on humans their own kind. They clamed to protect Humanity, but they have been doing the it all wrong.

They have caused problems with Humanitys relationships with the galaxy. I mean why do you think people hate humanity because of Cerberus.

Cerberus was started by TIM right, who touched the Monlith on Shanxi. Could it have been that the Reapers used TIM to start Cerberus so that Cerberus can keep Humanity safe so they can preserve humanity for a new Reaper.

Yes Cerberus brought back Shepard, but what if that's what the Reapers wanted. What if everything we have done was the Reapers own gain.

We kill the Collectors because Harbinger got bord and now want's to use Cerberus as the new Collectors.

We build up our forces so that the Reapers can create their own project. You see all the allies Shepard gains squad wise are prime targets.

Liara on Mars Cerberus

Surkesh Mordin= Cerberus

Gimssion Acadamy Jack= Cerberus

Ash, or Kadin on the Citadel= Cerberus

Jacob= Cerberus

Grunt= the Reapers

Zaeed= Cerberus

Wrex tuchanka= the Reapers

Tali and Legion on their home planet= the Reapers.

Almost ever squad member we pick up is a target for the Reapers.

I mean come on

What if that was the point.

Mordin dying to save the Krogan was the Reapers plan.

Mordin living and not cureing the Geno was the Reapers plan.

I mean what if.

Who is to say we have been working for the Reapers all along?

What if we have been Indoctrinated ever since ME2 ended.

I mean Bioware put a lot of options to kill our friends. People literaly have done this and it's just wrong.

We play god and we choice who lives and who dies.

Do the Geth deserve to die?

Do the Quarainas deserve to die?

The Krogan?

The Rachni?

Who's side are we on.

We say we are helping the galaxy, but what if we were just a tool for the Reapers. No matter what we do we help them. But that's just it we don't know until it's to late.

To be honest I just had to get this of my chest. Now I should be back to my old self. So let's talk about IT.

[spotlessvoid]

Dark Delta:

Considering the hate IT was getting, why would they? Plus, an ingame reveal is infinitely more awesome.
I wouldn't call it trolling if there is a reveal. I'd call it trolling if there isn't

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 11 novembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[MegumiAzusa]

masster blaster wrote...

Yes, best thing we could do is sit back and relax when getting molten down.

[Dwailing]

So, what's the latest intelligence on Shepard's indoctrination?

[demersel]

Ok, another weird thing in Tuchanka mission. Haven't seen anything like that before - will do a screen shot and post it here.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Indoctrination and Literal interpretations are valid, it's just the presentation that for me makes it into a three layered question.
Is this real?
Which is the right choice?
What is the result of each choice and the standard behind it?

It's not unprecedented to get an ending which is just an illusion, but the other ending explicitly explains that for that addon. With ME you can still ask all these questions even after playing through any yet possible way. ME has always included virtual spaces and control. It always included prejudice in an expert way, very good examples are Batarians, Geth, and Quarians, and shows how easy it is to act on them. It always also included morality displayed by Paragon/Renegade. The very last choice of the game combines all of these things, regardless if its literal or not.
Even if literal you are nudged to prefer synthesis or control over destroy. If indoctrination you are nudged to prefer destroy as a mean to get out, but still leaves open the possibility that you simply cannot know if your choice is a virtual or a real one. In that case you still have to weight the morality of these choices, and possible options.
Saying I will pick destroy without thinking about it because it's the only way not to be indoctrinated is nonsense as you just cannot know. If you do the wrong choice, esp with lower ems, hundreds of millions innocents die.

Yeah I agree.  I also think that the "dumb" choice (the one that people will pick without really thinking) also happens to be the right choice.  I like this for a number of reasons, not least because it's predictable when you can rule out the obvious choice just for being obvious.

Also I think at low EMS, Control is maybe better than destroy, but it depends on what the consequences of Control actually are.  I know that requires hindsight which defeats the point of the choice... but if literal, I think the consequences of Control are arguably less bad... it depends on how much faith you have in the rest of the galaxy coming up with a new way to stop the Reapers.

[masster blaster]

You know what if Bioware ment " We will corfirm nor deni IT because hello you people have already proved it, you just need to read IT."

I mean we know Bioware likes IT, yet some like the Literal end not so much Destroy but Control and Synthesis. Which is weird unless they are trying to promote C, and S on purpose?

Oh and didn't mike Gamble um after the EC was released asked the players about The Destroy ending? Also the Memorial scene?

[masster blaster]

Yes what it's been here for 8 months. You got a choice if you are here to troll get out, in not then ask away. Sorry if I am coming out rude but people tend to say this then troll.

[CmdrShep80]

So one of the things that choose wisely ep 2 pointed out that is not in the codex for reaper indoctrination is shared memories. Yet there are examples of indoctrinated people experiencing the shared memories phenomena.

I took vega on one too many missions so I didn't get to see t too much first hand but from the vid he's like the poster child of shared memories with Shepard where he's not supposed to know things because he wasn't there with Shepard at the time of the statements he makes. I'll give 2 examples from the last couple of posts:

[CmdrShep80]

Andromidius wrote...

Huh. So, when talking to James post-Citadel attack, he talks about his fight with the Collectors. And mentioned one of the colonists was a Cerberus spy working with the Collectors.

But this was during Shepard's time with Cerberus, when they were fighting against the Collectors to seize their technology. So that doesn't add up.

Either James was incorrect at guessing the spy was with Cerberus, or... I don't know. Its just a weird detail that doesn't add up.

shared memories

[paxxton]

Yes, the Memorial Wall scene at the end of the EC! Why give hope if there was none. Shepard is alive.

Modifié par paxxton, 11 novembre 2012 - 06:29 .

[demersel]

 So the transports stop and then a turian jey crashes into you - shepard almost gets crashed by a knocked over transport - exactly like in the EC beam run. and then you have to go on on foot - but i took my time to look around - and this stroke me as very odd - i don't really know what to make out of it. 




THe whole scene really feels fake and dead - the backgrounds are just drown low res. The turian fighters are supposed to fight the reaper in the distance, but nothing is happening. I'm not saying that it is fake, mind you.

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

So i'm playing the tuchanca gure the genophage mission - it is weird. Just had another "I was bourne in london - Really??" moment... You're in a transport with your squad, Wrex, Eve and Mordin. You have a conversation about curing the genophage. Wrex says that they need to expand - reclaim the glory of the anciant krogans - you can ask - what were they like - Eve answer - they were great and proud people - Mordin, asks - Until the Genophage? - Eve says - no. We destroyed our selves.

What the hell?? Why would mordin even ask that? He explicitly told you in both ME2 and ME3 that the genophage is not what destroyed krogan society - they did it themselves even before salarians found them and uplifted to ealry, before they worked things out on their own.

shared memories

[CmdrShep80]

Remember the vid: how can we be remembering the same things? About the two guys with the same wife? I originally thought the wife married them both yea I did think this mind you. But then realized it was something else

[DoomsdayDevice]

Davik Kang wrote...

I also think that the "dumb" choice (the one that people will pick without really thinking) also happens to be the right choice.  I like this for a number of reasons, not least because it's predictable when you can rule out the obvious choice just for being obvious.

>.<

I don't understand this sentiment, at all. Destroy, for me, is the hard choice. Especially if you're playing a pure Paragon Shep. You have to be willing to sacrifice your friends and allies, knowing that there are two alternatives in which they might live. From a literal POV, destroy seems like the renegade 'victory at any and all costs' option.

Shepard seems to agree with this sentiment:

Shepard: If you'd saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one.


The no-brains 'dumb' choice would be the 'nobody dies, we'll just make everyone the same and there will be eternal peace' synthesis option.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 11 novembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Stuff for that upcoming SP DLC that is "unlike anything they've done before".
Nah, I think that the Omega DLC will have additional lines for the squadies, only because they're not with you on the missions doesn't mean that they won't have lines to comment on the missions.

I'm just saying that it could not have been for Omega, but for another SP DLC that is not announced yet. 

i agree because omega was already being worked on right after ME3 release. 

[masster blaster]

Okay so people want a Kal Regger dlc, even though he is dead now. They killed him off in an artical. Honestly they did that to Tombs, and other people we have saved. We can't save Kal because he is dead, nor Rana, nor Tombs, nor Jokers sister which think it is because Tiptree was the planet Joker's sister was on that had bone diesaes and wanted to be a pliot like her brother.

I mean come on Bioware told use that Joker's sister is dead.

[CmdrShep80]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

The beginning supports the reason I think Shepard may be indoctrinated since ME1. When he interacts with the beacon, we hear whispers but it never happens with the other beacons

I pointed that out in maybe may or june? (the whispers part) But you miss another point: the first time it's whispers the time on Virmire you even see Nazara which then plainly states "You touch my mind." They are obviously linked.
Also in ME3 before Shep exclaims that there is a beacon all around you goes black and you hear lots of Reaper sounds.

i did miss the Nazara part. By the way shared memories (emphasizing lol)

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

What if, since ME4 will have a completely different character - it will feature a system of character generation very much like the one from DA:O - which was very succesfull and very well recieved? So you play though completely different opening act, depeding on your character race? And it would be really not that much trouble to include one secret origin story - for those who import the save with High EMS destroy - in that case, and only in that case you get to play as your Sheprad, What do you guys think?

demersel that's brilliant. It fits in with the there will be no Shepard or Shepard 2 and it fits in with their desires to deny everything that they will do. Plus it fits in with the "you'll regret not holding onto your save games"

Edit-Shepard lives for ME4

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 11 novembre 2012 - 06:37 .