80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

masster blaster wrote...

I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better

You know he misses on purpose anyway as evidenced by the 3 shots before which are getting closer shot by shot.

[Rifneno]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Headcanon's a wonderful thing.  As is sticking your head in the sand.  

...  Ow, my brain... 

[Davik Kang]

The whole Normandy evac scene is pretty odd. I never played pre-EC but still felt like "...what?" when it happened. Probably the only point in Priority:Earth that seemed just off the first time (obviously there's plenty more but I didn't notice the other stuff at the time).

Priority:Earth does seem to be built on the memories of stuff that happened already. The Vancouver mission is a good point.

On Vancouver there were a lot of jet fighters and so forth running around. Maybe during the beam run they wanted a much bigger army heading for the conduit, but didn't have the resources to animate the whole thing (memory resources that is - maybe the PS3 and X360 hardware simply couldn't handle it).

Naturally you can use the evac scene to back up IT by saying it didn't happen, but even some (most?) ITers think it's all real until the blast nearly kills you.

[Rifneno]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better

You know he misses on purpose anyway as evidenced by the 3 shots before which are getting closer shot by shot.

And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

[ElSuperGecko]

Rifneno wrote...
...  Ow, my brain... 

Apologies.  I'm just finding the entire discussion hilarious.  Even if I'm arguing from a non-IT perspective, headcanon is apparently now > fact.  And if you dare to suggest otherwise, the eyes shut, the hands go over the ears and the mouth starts singing "la la la, I'm not listening".

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[Davik Kang]

Rifneno wrote...
And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

I have to be honest, don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I do think the idea that Harbinger actually intentionally knocks Shepard out by missing slightly so that he can be indoctrinated is not really the most solid idea.  Not saying it's definitely wrong, but it's certainly the kind of 'headcanony'-type thing that many ITers would mock if a Literalist came up with it.

Maybe Harbinger was trying to miss, maybe he wasn't.  I think he wasn't, but that's not the point here.  Imo, if the only Reaper goal is to indoctrinate Shepard, then the beam must be a trap and not go to the Citadel at all.  Instead it's just a mass indoctrination device.  That way, Shepard getting close automatically begins the indoctrination.  

Then, the near miss from Harbinger is the jolt that kick-starts the dream.  The idea that Harbinger is "near-missing to knock Shepard out with a beam that vaporises others so that he can fall asleep right next to the beam that carries him to the Citadel so that he can be indoctrinated" - I just don't buy it at all.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better

You know he misses on purpose anyway as evidenced by the 3 shots before which are getting closer shot by shot.

And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

Dont forget Anderson who somehow got by without even losing his cap

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

I have to be honest, don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I do think the idea that Harbinger actually intentionally knocks Shepard out by missing slightly so that he can be indoctrinated is not really the most solid idea.  Not saying it's definitely wrong, but it's certainly the kind of 'headcanony'-type thing that many ITers would mock if a Literalist came up with it.

Maybe Harbinger was trying to miss, maybe he wasn't.  I think he wasn't, but that's not the point here.  Imo, if the only Reaper goal is to indoctrinate Shepard, then the beam must be a trap and not go to the Citadel at all.  Instead it's just a mass indoctrination device.  That way, Shepard getting close automatically begins the indoctrination.  

Then, the near miss from Harbinger is the jolt that kick-starts the dream.  The idea that Harbinger is "near-missing to knock Shepard out with a beam that vaporises others so that he can fall asleep right next to the beam that carries him to the Citadel so that he can be indoctrinated" - I just don't buy it at all.

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

I have to be honest, don't want to get into an argument or anything, but I do think the idea that Harbinger actually intentionally knocks Shepard out by missing slightly so that he can be indoctrinated is not really the most solid idea.  Not saying it's definitely wrong, but it's certainly the kind of 'headcanony'-type thing that many ITers would mock if a Literalist came up with it.

Maybe Harbinger was trying to miss, maybe he wasn't.  I think he wasn't, but that's not the point here.  Imo, if the only Reaper goal is to indoctrinate Shepard, then the beam must be a trap and not go to the Citadel at all.  Instead it's just a mass indoctrination device.  That way, Shepard getting close automatically begins the indoctrination.  

Then, the near miss from Harbinger is the jolt that kick-starts the dream.  The idea that Harbinger is "near-missing to knock Shepard out with a beam that vaporises others so that he can fall asleep right next to the beam that carries him to the Citadel so that he can be indoctrinated" - I just don't buy it at all.

Which along with the ludicrous Nomandy sequence is why I believe Shepard gets knocked out during that sudden fade to balck in the Tank heading to the beam. The scene of Harbinger landing could then also be seen as Harbinger entering Shepards mind.

[Xilizhra]

One thing to note before the rest: Harbinger is currently torching Hammer as the Normandy comes down. The Normandy isn't a threat to the beam at the moment and hence isn't really a priority.

BS Xil. I see your point about the Collectors, but how does Harbinger really know what Shepard is if he is just blasting around and killing everything in it's path. I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better because if that's the case then why do we die from a single touch of a Reaper Destroy beam? Heck Reaper Capital ships can cut through ships like paper.

Recall that Shepard dodges several direct shots from the Rannoch destroyer. This is just Shepard dodging it with a much tinier, and still damaging, margin.

What I aslo find bs is that the friend or fow iff is bs. If we are invisable to the Reapers, and we are seens as their allys, then why do they try to f****** kill us if we are just scanning the planets? Oh and and um didn't you see the oracles attack the Normandy. I mean come on the orbs can see the Normandy, but Reapers can't bs.

Scanning puts information out there that the Reapers can tell isn't them, and the Normandy isn't stealthed while fighting Oculi.

So the Collectors can see through the Normandy's stealth systems, but not Harbinger himself? Seems legit.

Not when combined with the IFF.

The eye's on the surface of the reaper are in the same place as the eyes on the Leviathans on which they were based. This at least suggests that they perform the same function. Asserting that they are "probably not" eyes, seems to me to be based on pure speculation, as the game doesn't provide any hard info on reaper anatomy.

Having visual sensors that only face one direction, and one that usually isn't even "forward," strikes me as more strange.

[Rifneno]

Your headcanon makes me feel like someone shot me in the head with a cannon.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Oh god, Xil.
I WAS going to respond to your post about the quarians Rifneno, but now imma gonna jump ship.
Later.

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

The whole Normandy evac scene is pretty odd. I never played pre-EC but still felt like "...what?" when it happened. Probably the only point in Priority:Earth that seemed just off the first time (obviously there's plenty more but I didn't notice the other stuff at the time).

Priority:Earth does seem to be built on the memories of stuff that happened already. The Vancouver mission is a good point.

On Vancouver there were a lot of jet fighters and so forth running around. Maybe during the beam run they wanted a much bigger army heading for the conduit, but didn't have the resources to animate the whole thing (memory resources that is - maybe the PS3 and X360 hardware simply couldn't handle it).

Naturally you can use the evac scene to back up IT by saying it didn't happen, but even some (most?) ITers think it's all real until the blast nearly kills you.

This is how it looked pre EC.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[Eryri]

Xilizhra wrote...

Having visual sensors that only face one direction, and one that usually isn't even "forward," strikes me as more strange.

So, having no visual sensors at all makes more sense to you?

Harbinger is a synthetic copy of the Leviathans. The Leviathans had 6 eyes on their dorsal surface. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Harbinger's 6 yellow dots, arranged in exactly the same way and in the same place, are also eyes. 

Modifié par Eryri, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[dreamgazer]

Rifneno wrote...

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

Considering the fact that you defeat a Reaper on-ground by rolling out of the way of lasers, I think it's up in the air.

Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

[Xilizhra]

Eryri wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Having visual sensors that only face one direction, and one that usually isn't even "forward," strikes me as more strange.

So, having no visual sensors at all makes more sense to you?

Harbinger is a synthetic copy of the Leviathans. The Leviathans had 6 eyes on their dorsal surface. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Harbinger's 6 yellow dots, arranges in exactly the same way and in the same place, are also eyes. 

Again, both of Harbinger's cannons are occupied during the evacuation scene. And I remain skeptical of them being eyes just because they look like it, but I suppose that's down to interpretation.

[MegumiAzusa]

Xilizhra wrote...

BS Xil. I see your point about the Collectors, but how does Harbinger really know what Shepard is if he is just blasting around and killing everything in it's path. I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better because if that's the case then why do we die from a single touch of a Reaper Destroy beam? Heck Reaper Capital ships can cut through ships like paper.

Recall that Shepard dodges several direct shots from the Rannoch destroyer. This is just Shepard dodging it with a much tinier, and still damaging, margin.

And as you also might remember the Destroyer also begins with the beam about 5000m away to let it slowly crawl to Shep. Seems legit too. Remember the accuracy the Destroyer in Vancouver has when sniping shuttles?

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:10 .

[AresKeith]

Sovereign looking at Shepard: "You are not Saren"

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Yeah the scan is indeed what draws the Reapers to the system the Normandy is in, but according to you the Normandy could simply seize scanning and go dark and the Reaper would float right by without a care in the world.

But that dosent happen. Not even metioning that the sacn seems pulse based and not even constant, the Reapers the moment they enter the system where the Normandy is goes directly for the Normandy with perfect accuracy across the entire system if necesary. Clearly they know exactly where the Normandy is in the system.

Also as I allready pointed out the Normandy´s invisibility is bloody worthless against Heat vision when in atmosphere (and we have to assume Harbinger is hooting the soliders using some form of Heat vision because they are not exactly emitting signals and any other form of detection would bypass the Normandies claok completely). But anyway the Normandy once it captures its heat will appear near invisible against the backdrop of the universe when using heat detection equibment...in atmosphere however it will be appear colder than the sourrounding atmosphere and essentially light up like a crhistmas tree.

As for the Normandy not beeing a priority, Harbinger has no idea what is going to happen as the Normandy opens its doors (unless he has direct access to Shepards mind...) For all harbinger knows the entire crew of the Normandy is about to leap out of the ship to storm run him and considering it is a large Frigate vs a Dreadnought in terms of ships sizes a single beam from Harbinger should destroy the Normandy completely.

Now ask yourself again what has the highest priority. The ship which can unload a few dozen people for the charge and which can be destroyed in moments while retaining at least three beams for closer enemy personel...or said enemy personel.

[Xilizhra]

As for the Normandy not beeing a priority, Harbinger has no idea what is going to happen as the Normandy opens its doors (unless he has direct access to Shepards mind...) For all harbinger knows the entire crew of the Normandy is about to leap out of the ship to storm run him and considering it is a large Frigate vs a Dreadnought in terms of ships sizes a single beam from Harbinger should destroy the Normandy completely.

Then Harbinger shoots them when they become actual threats, instead of ignoring the current actual threats to focus on a potential threat.

[AresKeith]

@MegumiAzusa and wasn't it getting harder to dodge while he was getting closer too?

[Rifneno]

dreamgazer wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

Considering the fact that you defeat a Reaper on-ground by rolling out of the way of lasers, I think it's up in the air.

Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

No, it's not.  Harbinger isn't a destroyer, it's a capital ship.  THE capital ship.  The codex goes on about their insanely powerful targeting systems giving them a much greater engagement range than organics dreadnoughts and the disadvantage that puts our forces at.  Even when the Reapers were controlling Paul Grayson, he hit three perfect headshots on a group of guards before they could even react to seeing him.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
This is how it looked pre EC.

Rifneno wrote...
Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

dreamgazer wrote...
Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

I guess it's possible that Harbinger reduced the intensity of the beam to injure without killing Shepard (as we can see many different effects of the Reaper beams depending on what target they're aiming at). 

[MegumiAzusa]

AresKeith wrote...

@MegumiAzusa and wasn't it getting harder to dodge while he was getting closer too?

No, the timing depending on distance as always the same, it just fired more frequently as the shots weren't as long.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for the Normandy not beeing a priority, Harbinger has no idea what is going to happen as the Normandy opens its doors (unless he has direct access to Shepards mind...) For all harbinger knows the entire crew of the Normandy is about to leap out of the ship to storm run him and considering it is a large Frigate vs a Dreadnought in terms of ships sizes a single beam from Harbinger should destroy the Normandy completely.

Then Harbinger shoots them when they become actual threats, instead of ignoring the current actual threats to focus on a potential threat.

The Normandy SR-2, the ship which has eluded the Reapers repeatedly with its entire crew which has been fighting the Reapers for years now and foiled their plans on Rannoch and Tuchanka (not even mentioning Sovereign and the Collectors) along with the Commander of the ship, Shepard, the human who is more than anything responsible for their troubles is spending a good minute or so stationary in Harbingers line of fire...

There is no such thing as a "bigger threat" in Harbingers sights right now going by any kind of logic.

Also top.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:22 .