80611 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Davik Kang wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
This is how it looked pre EC.

Rifneno wrote...
Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

dreamgazer wrote...
Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

I guess it's possible that Harbinger reduced the intensity of the beam to injure without killing Shepard (as we can see many different effects of the Reaper beams depending on what target they're aiming at). 

You never see Harbinger hit Shepard, neither pre nor post EC.
Most of the explosion style hits are based on the material it hits and resulting differences in pressure.
Look at that again. you will see that the explosion actually occurs over one or two seconds later as a result of a pressure builtup. The beam itself had either ceased or passed long before. Also from earlier versions of that scene where you enter the building from its roof it also looks like the beam hit something that exploded which in return caused the roof to collapse and pressing in on the room. With the air inside heated up and the pressure from above the already weakened windows burst out.

[Jusseb]

I agree, their primary goal should be to destroy the Normandy as soon as they get the chance.

Harbinger 'The ultimate Reaper/Machine' should at least have the capability of ****ING multitasking, come on.

Modifié par Jusseb, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[AresKeith]

he wasn't even shooting when the Normandy was leaving

[Restrider]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh and I believe Reapers have eyes for a reason. How else do you think they know what Shepard looks like? I mean they use movement to see were the target moves to, or they can use heat seekers that regester who that person is? No when Harbinger talks to Shepard in Arrival Harbinger is looking at Shepard/ speaking to Shepard. So I call bs that Harbinger doesn't see the Normandy.

Harbinger was seeing through the eyes of numerous Collectors. What look like "eyes" on the surface of a Reaper are probably not, and while they do have heat sensors, the Normandy can, well, trap heat emissions. That combined with the IFF to fool the Reapers' other scanners would be enough.

I think it is reasonable to assume that Reapers have a multitude of sensors and in any case sensors for electromagnetic waves ranging from X-ray (or even gamma-rays) to Radar. It is true that it would be difficult to detect spaceships in space with detectors in the lower wavelength range and easier to use longer wavelengths, but in the pick-up scene, we are talking about a few meters! Harbinger may not have eyes, but he has sensors/detectors that are way more advanced than eyes... even a half-blind myope would've seen the Normandy hovering in front of Harbinger.

[Jusseb]

If those damn Husks can see you, then Harbinger should also at least have that capability.

[Davik Kang]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
You never see Harbinger hit Shepard, neither pre nor post EC.
Most of the explosion style hits are based on the material it hits and resulting differences in pressure.
Look at that again. you will see that the explosion actually occurs over one or two seconds later as a result of a pressure builtup. The beam itself had either ceased or passed long before. Also from earlier versions of that scene where you enter the building from its roof it also looks like the beam hit something that exploded which in return caused the roof to collapse and pressing in on the room. With the air inside heated up and the pressure from above the already weakened windows burst out.

Yeah I know it doesn't hit, I didn't know about the 'earlier versions' though.  I'm a bit out of place in this discussion considering I think Shepard makes it to the Citadel anyway.  I just took it as one of those action movie things where the hero has a near-death escape.  Kind of like in ME1 where we think Shepard's dead for a bit before emerging from the rubble.

[Restrider]

Rifneno wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I mean come on Harbinger could have shot Shepard the moment Shepard started to run, but no When Harbinger get's his chance to shoot Shepard he fails. What's also funny is that the beam doesn't kill Shepard, don't say Shepard's armor is better

You know he misses on purpose anyway as evidenced by the 3 shots before which are getting closer shot by shot.

And the fact that he hits all the redshirts with perfect accuracy.  Shepard's the only one he misses.

I love that Star Trek reference.... good ol' times... hach...

Modifié par Restrider, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:40 .

[Humakt83]

It should be obvious that Harbinger deliberately avoids killing Shepard during that scene.

Harbinger disintegrates every other soldier running towards beam with perfect accuracy. There is no doubt that Harbinger could have killed Shepard if it so wanted, as long as we presume that the scene is real.

Modifié par Humakt83, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:44 .

[Restrider]

dreamgazer wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

Considering the fact that you defeat a Reaper on-ground by rolling out of the way of lasers, I think it's up in the air.

Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

I think that problem is caused by the design of the Destroyers. They have only the central laser, afaik. And Earl (also known as the Rannoch Reaper) was always charging his laser. Harbinger on the other hand (and this also applies to Sovereign) are able to shoot several lasers nearly instantaneously.

[Eryri]

Jusseb wrote...

I agree, their primary goal should be to destroy the Normandy as soon as they get the chance.

Harbinger 'The ultimate Reaper/Machine' should at least have the capability of ****ING multitasking, come on.

 Absolutely. Unless he was based on a male Leviathan of course.  

Would also explain why he took so long to come in from darkspace - he simply refused to ask for directions.

[MaximizedAction]

Restrider wrote...

I think that problem is caused by the design of the Destroyers. They have only the central laser, afaik. And Earl (also known as the Rannoch Reaper) was always charging his laser. Harbinger on the other hand (and this also applies to Sovereign) are able to shoot several lasers nearly instantaneously.

Recall the space battle scenes above Earth. There, Sovereign class Reapers had to charge their 'main' lasers, too, assuming every Sovereign class Reaper has 'secondary' lasers like Harbinger does. If not, then only Harbinger is pimped to multiple lasers.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Restrider]

Another interesting idea:
We know that Harbinger is based on the Leviathans. Leviathans seem to be an aquatic lifeform. Reapers use their Reaper horn.
Maybe Reapers have also some kind of acousting sensory system?

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...

It should be obvious that Harbinger deliberately avoids killing Shepard during that scene.

Harbinger disintegrates every other soldier running towards beam with perfect accuracy. There is no doubt that Harbinger could have killed Shepard if it so wanted, as long as we presume that the scene is real.

Ok but this flat out doesn't make sense if there is anything Literal about the post-blast scenes.

It's simple risk-reward.  If the Crucible is real, Shepard can activate the Crucible and destroy the Reapers.  Attempting to indoctinate Shepard is not worth the risk of total failure and extinction.

The only way to reconcile this is to believe the Child wholeheatedly in his assertion that he feels the cycle has failed and a new solution is required.  In this case, Refuse is failure for him too.  But even then, I can't see how a change of solution is worth the risk of total annihiliation of the Reapers.

If IT, then sure, it makes sense not to kill Shepard, but only if there's no chance of the Reapers losing the war.  If there's a chance, then the breath scene would be immediately followed by Harbinger zapping Shepard out of existence for good.

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

It should be obvious that Harbinger deliberately avoids killing Shepard during that scene.

Harbinger disintegrates every other soldier running towards beam with perfect accuracy. There is no doubt that Harbinger could have killed Shepard if it so wanted, as long as we presume that the scene is real.

Ok but this flat out doesn't make sense if there is anything Literal about the post-blast scenes.

It's simple risk-reward.  If the Crucible is real, Shepard can activate the Crucible and destroy the Reapers.  Attempting to indoctinate Shepard is not worth the risk of total failure and extinction.

The only way to reconcile this is to believe the Child wholeheatedly in his assertion that he feels the cycle has failed and a new solution is required.  In this case, Refuse is failure for him too.  But even then, I can't see how a change of solution is worth the risk of total annihiliation of the Reapers.

If IT, then sure, it makes sense not to kill Shepard, but only if there's no chance of the Reapers losing the war.  If there's a chance, then the breath scene would be immediately followed by Harbinger zapping Shepard out of existence for good.

You think the Crucible will actually destroy the Reapers? 

[Jusseb]

Restrider wrote...

Another interesting idea:
We know that Harbinger is based on the Leviathans. Leviathans seem to be an aquatic lifeform. Reapers use their Reaper horn.
Maybe Reapers have also some kind of acousting sensory system?

And communicate like whales and dolphins? 

[Restrider]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Restrider wrote...

I think that problem is caused by the design of the Destroyers. They have only the central laser, afaik. And Earl (also known as the Rannoch Reaper) was always charging his laser. Harbinger on the other hand (and this also applies to Sovereign) are able to shoot several lasers nearly instantaneously.

Recall the space battle scenes above Earth. There, Sovereigh class Reapers had to charge their 'main' lasers, too, assuming every Sovereign class Reaper has 'secondary' lasers like Harbinger does. If not, then only Harbinger is pimped to multiple lasers.

Sovereign begs to differ....
Even the secondary lasers are strong enough to destroy Cruisers easily.

[Restrider]

Jusseb wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Another interesting idea:
We know that Harbinger is based on the Leviathans. Leviathans seem to be an aquatic lifeform. Reapers use their Reaper horn.
Maybe Reapers have also some kind of acousting sensory system?

And communicate like whales and dolphins? 

I'm not saying that's the only sensors they have. But why the constant usage of the horns? To demoralize maybe?

[Rifneno]

Restrider wrote...

Jusseb wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Another interesting idea:
We know that Harbinger is based on the Leviathans. Leviathans seem to be an aquatic lifeform. Reapers use their Reaper horn.
Maybe Reapers have also some kind of acousting sensory system?

And communicate like whales and dolphins? 

I'm not saying that's the only sensors they have. But why the constant usage of the horns? To demoralize maybe?

The horns are indoctrination devices.  Not saying they couldn't have a secondary purpose.  They certainly could.

[Davik Kang]

Restrider wrote...
I'm not saying that's the only sensors they have. But why the constant usage of the horns? To demoralize maybe?

Yes I think demoralising is part of it.  Even IRL armies are (or were considering) implementing sound to demoralise opposition forces.

[MaximizedAction]

Restrider wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Recall the space battle scenes above Earth. There, Sovereigh class Reapers had to charge their 'main' lasers, too, assuming every Sovereign class Reaper has 'secondary' lasers like Harbinger does. If not, then only Harbinger is pimped to multiple lasers.

Sovereign begs to differ....
Even the secondary lasers are strong enough to destroy Cruisers easily.

Hm, I meant the 'main' to be the one coming from exactly where it comes from in that video, the one they have to charge first, and used for larger spaceships. By 'secondary' I meant the ones Harbinger uses near the beam, the ones that don't seem to need any charging.

[Davik Kang]

Rifneno wrote...
You think the Crucible will actually destroy the Reapers? 

More than that... I think it did destroy the Reapers when I used it to destroy the Reapers.

What is your take on IT?  Do you think that the Crucible was a trap and that conventional victory will happen after Shepard wakes up?

Modifié par Davik Kang, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[Restrider]

Davik Kang wrote...

Restrider wrote...
I'm not saying that's the only sensors they have. But why the constant usage of the horns? To demoralize maybe?

Yes I think demoralising is part of it.  Even IRL armies are (or were considering) implementing sound to demoralise opposition forces.

Here is a classical example for psychological warfare.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Davik Kang wrote...

Restrider wrote...
I'm not saying that's the only sensors they have. But why the constant usage of the horns? To demoralize maybe?

Yes I think demoralising is part of it.  Even IRL armies are (or were considering) implementing sound to demoralise opposition forces.

Yes, because hearing gunfire, explosions, and the screams of the injured or dying wasn't enough to cause permanent scaring of the mind for soldiers.

[MegumiAzusa]

Restrider wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

Considering the fact that you defeat a Reaper on-ground by rolling out of the way of lasers, I think it's up in the air.

Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

I think that problem is caused by the design of the Destroyers. They have only the central laser, afaik. And Earl (also known as the Rannoch Reaper) was always charging his laser. Harbinger on the other hand (and this also applies to Sovereign) are able to shoot several lasers nearly instantaneously.

Look at Vancouver again, the Destroyer destroys the second Shuttle without charging. Or at least it stops firing in between as it has constantly that effect.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[Restrider]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Restrider wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Recall the space battle scenes above Earth. There, Sovereigh class Reapers had to charge their 'main' lasers, too, assuming every Sovereign class Reaper has 'secondary' lasers like Harbinger does. If not, then only Harbinger is pimped to multiple lasers.

Sovereign begs to differ....
Even the secondary lasers are strong enough to destroy Cruisers easily.

Hm, I meant the 'main' to be the one coming from exactly where it comes from in that video, the one they have to charge first, and used for larger spaceships. By 'secondary' I meant the ones Harbinger uses near the beam, the ones that don't seem to need any charging.

I know, I just wanted to show that not only Harbinger has the secondary lasers, but it seems that every Sovereign class Reaper has them (unless Sovereign was in any form special).
Edit: TOP. And thus promotion time!

Modifié par Restrider, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:17 .