80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
You think the Crucible will actually destroy the Reapers? 

More than that... I think it did destroy the Reapers when I used it to destroy the Reapers.

What is your take on IT?  Do you think that the Crucible was a trap and that conventional victory will happen after Shepard wakes up?

There's no way in hell the Crucible is legit.  I don't know how victory will happen, or if it will happen.  But I know there's no way the literal deus ex machina that survived countless cycles is for real.  The Reapers clean up so well that no one even knows they exist until they invade, and you're telling me that for countless (they actually called it "countless!") cycles they missed the blueprints for a superweapon that could destroy them all?  A superweapon that was designed so that even the best scientists couldn't figure out what it did until it was used?  A superweapon that the Leviathans did that "oh crap, what do I say about this, I don't want them to know" look when questioned about it?

That's absurd.  The Crucible is a trap.

[Davik Kang]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...
Yes, because hearing gunfire, explosions, and the screams of the injured or dying wasn't enough to cause permanent scaring of the mind for soldiers.

US psychological warfare examples:

"During the Waco Siege, the FBI and ATF conducted psychological operations on the men, women and children inside the Mount Carmel complex. This included using loudspeakers to play sounds of animals being slaughtered, drilling noises and clips from talk shows about how much their leader David Koresh was hated. In addition, very bright, flashing lights were used at night.[14]In the Iraq War, the United States used the shock and awe campaign to psychologically maim, and break the will of the Iraqi Army to fight."

Maybe do a little bit of research before you make a smarmy confrontational comment?

Sorry 

Modifié par Davik Kang, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:49 .

[Davik Kang]

Rifneno wrote...
There's no way in hell the Crucible is legit.  I don't know how victory will happen, or if it will happen.  But I know there's no way the literal deus ex machina that survived countless cycles is for real.  The Reapers clean up so well that no one even knows they exist until they invade, and you're telling me that for countless (they actually called it "countless!") cycles they missed the blueprints for a superweapon that could destroy them all?  A superweapon that was designed so that even the best scientists couldn't figure out what it did until it was used?  A superweapon that the Leviathans did that "oh crap, what do I say about this, I don't want them to know" look when questioned about it?

That's absurd.  The Crucible is a trap.

Ok.  I'm a little bit surprised that you dismiss the argument that Anderson or Hackett might be batting for the wrong team, but you accept that the Crucible might be a trap.

No doubt the Crucible is eyebrow-raising.  The devs needed something that could give the final game the necessary momentum.  It is very much out of the blue and "really?".  Even the characters comment as much.

Maybe it is a trap.  But if it's a trap, we're all doomed.  We piled all of our resources into it after accepting that conventional victory isn't possible.

In this case the ending is meaningless.  And why wouldn't Harbinger just zap (unindoctrinated) Shepard once he wakes up?

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Thoughts on the latest blog update?
I don't like it much at all.

[Restrider]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Restrider wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Because Reapers aren't known for having incredible accuracy or anything.

Considering the fact that you defeat a Reaper on-ground by rolling out of the way of lasers, I think it's up in the air.

Personally, though, I think there's merit to the "intentially weaken Shepard's body" interpretation, since being on death's doorstep would alter his/her perspective on mortality in the decision chamber.

I think that problem is caused by the design of the Destroyers. They have only the central laser, afaik. And Earl (also known as the Rannoch Reaper) was always charging his laser. Harbinger on the other hand (and this also applies to Sovereign) are able to shoot several lasers nearly instantaneously.

Look at Vancouver again, the Destroyer destroys the second Shuttle without charging. Or at least it stops firing in between as it has constantly that effect.

But you see the Destroyer charging up first, and then it maybe is charged up for more than one shot but rather for a certain amount of time. You could compare it to a Gatling Gun.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Davik Kang wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...
Yes, because hearing gunfire, explosions, and the screams of the injured or dying wasn't enough to cause permanent scaring of the mind for soldiers.

US psychological warfare examples:

"During the Waco Siege, the FBI and ATF conducted psychological operations on the men, women and children inside the Mount Carmel complex. This included using loudspeakers to play sounds of animals being slaughtered, drilling noises and clips from talk shows about how much their leader David Koresh was hated. In addition, very bright, flashing lights were used at night.[14]In the Iraq War, the United States used the shock and awe campaign to psychologically maim, and break the will of the Iraqi Army to fight."
Maybe do a little bit of research before you make a smarmy confrontational comment?

I wasn't, I was just saying how soldiers already deal with enough stress without noise being perposly being blasted onto the battlefield just to cause MORE stress. I wasn't challenging you.
Curse the internets inability to understand sarcasm...

[Andromidius]

I think his point was that regular warfare is horrific enough to cause some soldiers to break down.

And yeah, the Crucible is a trap. Either a direct one that will cause harm to the user, or a device only the Reapers can use (i.e. a battery for the Citadel) that they don't even have to bother building themselves, or a dud designed to waste enemy resources. One of the three.

All of them are genius, and so left-field that no-one who isn't genre savvy about such things wouldn't have a clue its coming.

Oh, and Rifneno. Don't hate me bro. I've been playing as a Volus Adept recently, and loving how terrible and ineffective it is. I've even been ruining silver level games for people!

...and accidently nearly wiped the party when I closed the blast shields by accident during Firebase Reactor when everyone was inside doing a hack mission. Opps.

Modifié par Andromidius, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Ithurael]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Thoughts on the latest blog update?
I don't like it much at all.

How so? Seems heartfelt to me and...job postings!! YAY

That is a good sign.

Wait, you were talking about this right?
blog.bioware.com/2012/11/12/an-update-from-bioware-montreal/

[ElSuperGecko]

Davik Kang wrote...
More than that... I think it did destroy the Reapers when I used it to destroy the Reapers.

Same here.  I think the other options are simply the Reaper's last-ditch attempt to stop Shepard,  to indoctrinate Shepard (via the player) into using the Crucible do something that furthers their own interests.

[Restrider]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
There's no way in hell the Crucible is legit.  I don't know how victory will happen, or if it will happen.  But I know there's no way the literal deus ex machina that survived countless cycles is for real.  The Reapers clean up so well that no one even knows they exist until they invade, and you're telling me that for countless (they actually called it "countless!") cycles they missed the blueprints for a superweapon that could destroy them all?  A superweapon that was designed so that even the best scientists couldn't figure out what it did until it was used?  A superweapon that the Leviathans did that "oh crap, what do I say about this, I don't want them to know" look when questioned about it?

That's absurd.  The Crucible is a trap.

Ok.  I'm a little bit surprised that you dismiss the argument that Anderson or Hackett might be batting for the wrong team, but you accept that the Crucible might be a trap.

No doubt the Crucible is eyebrow-raising.  The devs needed something that could give the final game the necessary momentum.  It is very much out of the blue and "really?".  Even the characters comment as much.

Maybe it is a trap.  But if it's a trap, we're all doomed.  We piled all of our resources into it after accepting that conventional victory isn't possible.

In this case the ending is meaningless.  And why wouldn't Harbinger just zap (unindoctrinated) Shepard once he wakes up?

1. Very old technology with marvelous effects and relatively easy to use/build by those who find it, but not at all easy to understand left behind by ancient organic races. This describes the Crucible. This reminds me somehow of Mass Effect 1...

2. If the Crucible is a trap, I guess it has a porpuse for the Reapers that is more than just let the organics waste resources. Maybe it is a giant indoctrination device. Maybe we are able to reporpuse it, somehow.

3. If we chose Destroy with not enough EMS, Harbinger kills us (= no breath scene). Maybe with high enough EMS, Harbinger is not able to off Shepard.

Modifié par Restrider, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:37 .

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
There's no way in hell the Crucible is legit.  I don't know how victory will happen, or if it will happen.  But I know there's no way the literal deus ex machina that survived countless cycles is for real.  The Reapers clean up so well that no one even knows they exist until they invade, and you're telling me that for countless (they actually called it "countless!") cycles they missed the blueprints for a superweapon that could destroy them all?  A superweapon that was designed so that even the best scientists couldn't figure out what it did until it was used?  A superweapon that the Leviathans did that "oh crap, what do I say about this, I don't want them to know" look when questioned about it?

That's absurd.  The Crucible is a trap.

Ok.  I'm a little bit surprised that you dismiss the argument that Anderson or Hackett might be batting for the wrong team, but you accept that the Crucible might be a trap.

No doubt the Crucible is eyebrow-raising.  The devs needed something that could give the final game the necessary momentum.  It is very much out of the blue and "really?".  Even the characters comment as much.

Maybe it is a trap.  But if it's a trap, we're all doomed.  We piled all of our resources into it after accepting that conventional victory isn't possible.

In this case the ending is meaningless.  And why wouldn't Harbinger just zap (unindoctrinated) Shepard once he wakes up?

Maybe because there's actual evidence that the Crucible is a trap, as opposed to people misremembering events like there is with Hackett?  Your only defense against it is "if it is a trap, then we lose because I can't think of a way we can win".

[Davik Kang]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...
I wasn't, I was just saying how soldiers already deal with enough stress without noise being perposly being blasted onto the battlefield just to cause MORE stress. I wasn't challenging you.
Curse the internets inability to understand sarcasm...

Ok damn sorry I misunderstood, I did consider sarcasm and then decided against it, my bad, sorry again...

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Ithurael wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Thoughts on the latest blog update?
I don't like it much at all.

How so? Seems heartfelt to me and...job postings!! YAY

That is a good sign.

Wait, you were talking about this right?
blog.bioware.com/2012/11/12/an-update-from-bioware-montreal/

If I were to draw conclusions, I'd say they're not working on a single player game. Montreal taking the reigns on this instead of Edmonton is also a litte.. ominous I guess? For me at least. It's great that they're using engines like frostbite, though. I hope, sincerely hope, they're not trying to make another mmorpg.

[Humakt83]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...
If I were to draw conclusions, I'd say they're not working on a single player game. Montreal taking the reigns on this instead of Edmonton is also a litte.. ominous I guess? For me at least. It's great that they're using engines like frostbite, though. I hope, sincerely hope, they're not trying to make another mmorpg.

If its yet another boring MMORPG I'll puke.

[Davik Kang]

Restrider wrote...
3. If we chose Destroy with not enough EMS, Harbinger kills us (= no breath scene). Maybe with high enough EMS, Harbinger is not able to off Shepard.

Yeah that's a pretty nice idea.  Still odd considering that he can one-hit kill everyone else, but I guess it's plausible that his mistake could cost him as the high EMS forces drive him back away from Shepard.

Rifneno wrote...
Maybe because there's actual evidence that the Crucible is a trap, as opposed to people misremembering events like there is with Hackett?  Your only defense against it is "if it is a trap, then we lose because I can't think of a way we can win".

Ok... but the whole point of the whole game was that we set aside huge amounts of resouces to build the Crucible so that we have a chance.  I'm not sure what "defence" has to do with anything.  I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing starightforward stuff out.

There's evidence for both things, and evidence against both things.  You may think that "Crucible = trap" is more plausible than "Hackett/Anderson plan = helps Reaper plan".  I would agree.  But to say one is "evinced" and the the other "misremembered"... it's good to argue your points strongly, but it does seem like you aren't willing to consider that some of the things you believe might be open to debate.

Remember that I have no interest at all in proving Hackett or Anderson are luring Shepard into a trap.  If that's the case, my interpretation is necessarily wrong, and IT is necessarily right.  I wasn't trying to prove something that I want to be true.  I really don't want that to be true at all.  I was just coming up with some possible pro-IT ideas.

I also don't see why you avoided the question on why Harby doesn't just blast an unindoctrinated Shepard...

[Humakt83]

Davik Kang wrote...
I also don't see why you avoided the question on why Harby doesn't just blast an unindoctrinated Shepard...

1. The run to the beam scene might not be real. Heck, the whole priority Earth might not be real.
2. You presume that Harbinger is still there. But all we see on the breath scene is basically some wreckage.
3. Why should he blast Shepard? You think he would kill Shepard just because he "broke free" of indoctrination?

Modifié par Humakt83, 12 novembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[masster blaster]

I think we can repurpose the Crucible, but we will have to go to Rio. Remeber in the trailer for Paragon lost Bioware was working on Rio. Maybe something in Rio can help defeat the Reapers. To be honest I find it hard to believe Mars wasn't hit by the Reapers but Cerberus. Everything feels like a set up.

Liara so happence to find data on a weapon that can kill the Reapers, but Cerberus so happence to start attacking the Mars station as the Reapers arrive in the sol system. Ya I don't by it. If you think for a moment Hackett tells Shepard to go to Mars right, yet the Reapers just passed Mars did they not, and take out Luna base.

So either The Reapers/ Harbinger set up Shepard, or bad writing, and no I am not saying Hackett, and Liara are indoctrinated, but are used to fool Shepard in building the Crucible. In other case Harbinger uses a Cerberus operative to plant the Crucible in the archives in the Prothean artifact. Now when Harbinger did this he made sure Dr. Liara found out about it because Cerberus already knew that Liara is the new Shadow broker.

As Liara comes to Mars, Eve is planted to keep an eye on Liara and wait for the Reapers to come to Earth. Now Hackett is prepareing the Alliance fleet so they can stop the Reapers for a bit. As the Reapers pass mars Harbinger gives TIM the green light, and attacks.

Further more this leads Shepard to find the arcives on Mars. Now what's funny is we don't have everything on the Crucible just the blueprints. Then Harbinger get's ready for the main event.

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...
I also don't see why you avoided the question on why Harby doesn't just blast an unindoctrinated Shepard...

1. The run to the beam scene might not be real. Heck, the whole priority Earth might not be real.
2. You presume that Harbinger is still there. But all we see on the breath scene is basically some wreckage.
3. Why should he blast Shepard? You think he would kill Shepard just because he "broke free" of indoctrination?

1. Yeah I know, but if it is real, I ask the question, as a lot of ITers think the dream starts from the blast.  Obviously the question is not relevant to those who believe otherwise.
2. No I don't at all.  Some people use the fact that Harbinger flies away as evidence that more Literal ideas are ridiculous.  Well, why does he fly away if he knocks you out?  If he doesn't fly away, why doesn't he zap you?
3. Er.... yes?!?!?  Why on Earth would he let Shepard live???

[spotlessvoid]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Headcanon's a wonderful thing.  As is sticking your head in the sand.  

That's not where it's stuck

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Headcanon's a wonderful thing.  As is sticking your head in the sand.  

That's not where it's stuck

I like it!

[masster blaster]

Okay I know get a gifts of Harbingers plan.


Okay after Arrival Harbinger is building up his forces. He get's incontact with TIM ( his hidin pawn) and orders TIM to take Omega and salvage the proto Reaper. Then Harbinger tells TIM to use the Reaper implants to better your troops, and gather coloinst to build him a new spec ops army ( do to the Collectors fall).

Now Harbinger needs a huge army to go to Earth so he can have ground troops, so the Batarians are his prime target. As the Batarians are turned into Harbingers troops, Harbinger orders a good portion of Reapers to go to Palavin and hult the military races that could cause problems. Then Harbinger orders some Reapers into groups, and go out into some systems and cause chaos/ send a message to the galaxy.


Now Harbinger sets his eyes on Earth. He picks Earth for three reasons.

1. Humanity has been the problem for everything.

2. Shepard is on Earth, and Shepard needs to learn what happence when you f with Harbinger/ to Indoctrinate Shepard.

3. It sets up Harbingers plan because even though Shepard may not have been born on Earth, it's his races home planet that's getting the hammer the hardest, and Anderson is now on Earth.

Now again read my last post prier to this one. Again it explains why the Reapers didn't attack Mars.

[Andromidius]

spotlessvoid wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Headcanon's a wonderful thing.  As is sticking your head in the sand.  

That's not where it's stuck

I should not have clicked that link.

Because now I'm annoyed again.  I hate strawmen.

[Humakt83]

Davik Kang wrote...
2. No I don't at all.  Some people use the fact that Harbinger flies away as evidence that more Literal ideas are ridiculous.  Well, why does he fly away if he knocks you out?  If he doesn't fly away, why doesn't he zap you?
3. Er.... yes?!?!?  Why on Earth would he let Shepard live???

If Harbinger wanted Shepard killed, it would have already done so. Lets put some things into perspective: Shepard is merely a human although a special one. Harbinger is literally a two kilometer long spaceship capable of destroying other spaceships, cities & even worlds.

Furthermore, we don't really know what happens after breath scene or even how long Shepard was unconscious. Everything before breath scene is about interpretation. Everything after breath scene is headcanon. For now.

Modifié par Humakt83, 12 novembre 2012 - 05:31 .

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...
2. No I don't at all.  Some people use the fact that Harbinger flies away as evidence that more Literal ideas are ridiculous.  Well, why does he fly away if he knocks you out?  If he doesn't fly away, why doesn't he zap you?
3. Er.... yes?!?!?  Why on Earth would he let Shepard live???

If Harbinger wanted Shepard killed, it would have already done so. Lets put some things into perspective: Shepard is merely a human although a special one. Harbinger is literally a two kilometer long spaceship capable of destroying other spaceships, cities & even worlds.

Furthermore, we don't really know what happens after breath scene or even how long Shepard was unconscious. Everything before breath scene is about interpretation. Everything after breath scene is headcanon. For now.

First point: having failed to indoctrinate Shepard, there is no point in keeping him alive.  I don't agree with the idea that Harbinger can just kill Shepard, as we've spent 3 games trying not to get killed.  But it's not relevant to the point.  I ask again - having failed to indoctrinate Shepard, why let him live?

Second point: yes I am aware of that, but if Shepard's gonna get zapped post-breath scene it does render the whole thing kind of pointless.  The thing is some people are willing to mock non-IT based on the fact that Harbinger flies away, but don't seem to acknowledge that Harbinger knocking Shepard out for an indoctrination attempt, and then flying away even if it fails, is no better.  Either both are ridiculous or neither is ridiculous.  To say it's only ridiculous in the opposite view reminds me of the kind of irrational thinking that is normally associated with the enemies of IT.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 12 novembre 2012 - 05:39 .

[spotlessvoid]

Andromidius wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Headcanon's a wonderful thing.  As is sticking your head in the sand.  

That's not where it's stuck

I should not have clicked that link.

Because now I'm annoyed again.  I hate strawmen.

Then click Megumi's link a couple posts back to find out about the new top secret dlc being finalized