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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#46351
Krimzie

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prettz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

prettz! When is the next episode of your IT series due?


I had to move and moving again this month so have not had much time to work on it.:(

:):):)
yes! there seems to be a person on the building. kind of strange:alien:


And right on the same level as a vent shaft!

#46352
prettz

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I've gone back to fly cam to see who it was but but it never appeared,

#46353
Davik Kang

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Restrider wrote...
I don't know who it was, maybe Davik Kang...?
Regardless, someone stated that the DE plot should've had the same role as the organics vs. synthetics plot. It should've been a reason for the Reapers/Starbinger to convince Shepard that jumping into a Synthesis beam is a good idea.
Afaik, the plot was something like that your choices are either Destroy and try to figure out to save the universe yourself or turn humanity into a Reaper to end the DE thread. Sounds indoctrinated for me.
Nevertheless, both, the DE and organic vs synthetic plot had their little bits of foreshadowing where I have to say that the latter makes more sense, in my opinion

:crying:
I agree w/ Riferno. the Dark Energy plot sucks serious balls.

Easy way to know if I suggested something like this is to remember that I frickin' love the ending.  I probably like it even more than DD or Bill Casey.  So the chance of me ever suggesting the BW should have done this or that in the ending is extremely low.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 14 novembre 2012 - 02:37 .


#46354
Home run MF

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Home Run to the rescue! :D

Thanks a ton!


Happy to help ;)

#46355
paxxton

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prettz wrote...

I've gone back to fly cam to see who it was but but it never appeared,

To me that silhouette looks like Shepard or Anderson. Might be a weird bug.

#46356
Davik Kang

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prettz wrote...

I've gone back to fly cam to see who it was but but it never appeared,

Where did the screenshot originally come from?  The pose would suggest that the 3rd figure is either Shepard or Anderson mirrored somehow (or an image of them previously being there).

If it is more than just a glitch, it could either imply that Shep and or Anderson are actually somewhere else, or that they are 2 or more places at once, or that they are already seeing things from their memories, or something really cool like space has folded in on itself and that the differnet places are actually the same place (a bit like in those 'mind-bending' puzzles which play with illusive tricks like perspective, mirrors etc.)

#46357
CmdrShep80

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Dwailing wrote...

Hey, anyone see this?: http://m.gamespot.co...d-disk-6399938/ THAT'S embarrassing. And ironic


so that's where I put my ME2 disc 2 *thump* I knew I should have looked in the COD BOII case :P

#46358
gunslinger_ruiz

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Hey, anyone see this?: http://m.gamespot.co...d-disk-6399938/ THAT'S embarrassing. And ironic


so that's where I put my ME2 disc 2 *thump* I knew I should have looked in the COD BOII case :P


Just saw it right now, I think it's pretty hilarious. "The Universe has spoken! Play Mass Effect instead!"

#46359
TheWill

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i would like to see a fly cam of the moment shepard turns round to anderson when talking to vent boy... when he looks away does the kid just vanish or is there an animation of him crawling away...

when he gets on the shuttle and the doors close is he still inside... when he opens the locked door on the roof and it closes behind him do we see him run into the vent...?

there must be a few shots and angles where we perhaps miss something like an expression on a characters face.. or an important clue/hint we cant see unless we go looking for it... things overlooked simply because of a camera angle...

#46360
DoomsdayDevice

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Bill Casey wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

DD I think he ment that the Reapers used the Synthetics of Javiks cycle against them. Just like they are using the Geth. This so called I preserve Synthetics, and Organics is bs.


Yeah, I understand the implication, I'm just looking for explicit mentions of the Reapers being involved with the Zha'Til. Not just that which is implied. =)


Then take Javik with you on the Geth Dreadnought mission...



Javik: "In my cycle, a race called the Zha used machines, the Zha'til, as synthetic symbiotes. The Reapers subjugated the Zha'til as they have the geth. Their mechanical swarms blotted out the sky. They were brutal, merciless."

Tali: "Keelah. What did you do?"

Javik: "We sent their star into supernova. I believe the Zha would have thanked us."


If your Shepard did Arrival, he will respond...

"I destroyed a system to take out the Alpha Relay. It wasn't an easy decision."


Aw, thanks Bill. I completely overlooked your post.

Was trying to point out to some literalists how the reapers have only caused synthetics to go to war with organics (like the Geth), but wasn't sure if the Zha'Til were Reaper tools as well.

More evidence that the catalyst is full of it. :D

#46361
spotlessvoid

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Bathaius wrote...

The if/then logic analysis of the catalyst's arguement is great.

And one of the reasons that made the ending extremely frustrating to experience was that the previous three games all craft a narrative which undermines that arguement as false and illogical. So, that leaves the ending with meeting a broken ai who controls reaper puppets who spout nonsense, who you have to compromise with by killing yourself and committing your choice of crime in genocide, rewriting self-identity, or becoming an overlord all based upon the slim chance that the villain known for deceiving each and every entity that ever dealt with it within the known story is actually telling the truth this one time, for no reason.



Other than going soft on synthesis, this pretty much sums it up

#46362
masster blaster

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Holy crap that body looks like TIM Prettz. I am sure it is. But what's he doing on Earth?????????

#46363
CmdrShep80

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paxxton wrote...

AlexKavern wrote...

Any news about ep.3 Choose Wisely?

P.S. No new CW, no new Marauder Shields episode, just two more weeks for Omega... It's too much. We need to regroup. Fall back to the MP!

It should be released before the Omega DLC.


Sweet!  Can't wait!  I really liked ep2.  Though do we dare ask how ep3 ends?  I know I know but just had to ask

#46364
DoomsdayDevice

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Davik Kang wrote...

Restrider wrote...
I don't know who it was, maybe Davik Kang...?
Regardless, someone stated that the DE plot should've had the same role as the organics vs. synthetics plot. It should've been a reason for the Reapers/Starbinger to convince Shepard that jumping into a Synthesis beam is a good idea.
Afaik, the plot was something like that your choices are either Destroy and try to figure out to save the universe yourself or turn humanity into a Reaper to end the DE thread. Sounds indoctrinated for me.
Nevertheless, both, the DE and organic vs synthetic plot had their little bits of foreshadowing where I have to say that the latter makes more sense, in my opinion

:crying:
I agree w/ Riferno. the Dark Energy plot sucks serious balls.

Easy way to know if I suggested something like this is to remember that I frickin' love the ending.  I probably like it even more than DD or Bill Casey.  So the chance of me ever suggesting the BW should have done this or that in the ending is extremely low.


WUT! Nobody likes the ending more than I do!  *shakes fist*

I wish you could see it like I do... so... perfect. :P

Seriously though, I agree with Restrider. Regardless of who said it, I too believe that the dark energy plot would have been just another vehicle for an ending in which Shepard could get indoctrinated. In which case I like the current ending a lot better. The games have been about synthetics vs. organics from the very beginning.

#46365
CmdrShep80

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masster blaster wrote...

I never notice Earth is fine when you shot TIM! 8 months and I never notice that.

2 things.

Bad writing

Or IT. Shepard is seeing Earth right out the window like in the beginning of ME1. Earth looks like the Earth we see in the opening ME1 scree, and when we shot TIM.


could it be an analogy for Heaven or paradise?  The second the doors open we're filled with a bright white light. Kind of like the ones at the end of a dark tunnel. Walk toward the light Shepard. No we won't kill you, it's safe. You saved earth. Now you can live on paradise. In other words the image Shepard sees is a hallucination

#46366
paxxton

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CmdrShep80 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

AlexKavern wrote...

Any news about ep.3 Choose Wisely?

P.S. No new CW, no new Marauder Shields episode, just two more weeks for Omega... It's too much. We need to regroup. Fall back to the MP!

It should be released before the Omega DLC.


Sweet!  Can't wait!  I really liked ep2.  Though do we dare ask how ep3 ends?  I know I know but just had to ask

I don't really know. But I hope it'll reveal at least a part of their secret theory.

#46367
DoomsdayDevice

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I'm really not convinced. I just watched that scene again, and even though there is no visible fire, there's a lot of dark clouds and things falling apart in the atmosphere.

Doesn't seem conclusive to me that Earth is 'fine'.

#46368
Davik Kang

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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
WUT! Nobody likes the ending more than I do!  *shakes fist*

I wish you could see it like I do... so... perfect. :P

Seriously though, I agree with Restrider. Regardless of who said it, I too believe that the dark energy plot would have been just another vehicle for an ending in which Shepard could get indoctrinated. In which case I like the current ending a lot better. The games have been about synthetics vs. organics from the very beginning.

Agreed good sir.

EDIT: on the whole "Earth is fine during the TIM scene", I loaded up a YT vid of that scene and the forst thing I saw is something exploding out in space.  So I don't think it's a peaceful illusion or anything like that.  Tbh I think it looks the same as the Chamber scene, and just looks nice and bright because of our proximity to Earth and the light reflecting off the atmosphere.  The relatively dim light of the balzing infernos is swallowed by this.

In the darkened Earth shots, we are further away and the light source is (intentionally) the other side of Earth, meaning that the light of the fire and destrouction is highlighted.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:13 .


#46369
CmdrShep80

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Hey everyone, remember how I said I would repost my how the crucible works? Well here it is reposted as I originally posted it:


Ok I was inspired by this video of a crucible it reminded me of the crucible being built and decided to post all of this below.
First up the War assets and a brief explanation with some real life science background supporting why I think this (except for the suppositions and anything else I didn't explain). Then an overall summary and a crude demo via another game I love that does something similar.

War Assets for the Crucible
Haptic Optics Array
The Haptics Optics Array is an experimental computer user interface, Cortical implants allow users to "see" screens projected in front of them. A user's eye movements are tracked, syncing to hand gestures as they sift through data.
EDIT – Targeting Sensors to aim at reapers remotely

Interferometric Array
Normally interferometric arrays are used to analyze planetary landmasses, or to determine the astrophysical properties of stellar systems. The powerful array salvaged from the Hercules system can be used for something much more ambitious: the Crucible tunes into the mass relays' command switches. Installing the interferometric array into the Crucible's systems results in a real-time map of the entire galaxy, including the position of each and every Reaper in the Milky Way.
EDIT – Real life science - astronomical interferometer where the individual telescopes seen as parts of a fractionated spacecraft are positioned in a spherical arrangement (requiring the individual telescopes to be positioned to a fraction of a wavelength). This geometry reduces the amount of pathlength compensation required in re-pointing the interferometer array Using this spherical geometry of array elements and using a densified pupil beam combiner, and calls this his "Hypertelescope" project. It might theoretically show features on Earth-like worlds around other sun.
This is why the Crucible has that big sphere
Optimized Eezo Capacitors
Dreadnought-class drive capacitors use specialized eezo-based compounds to channel and store thermal energy with greater efficiency than previous designs.
EDIT – Improves efficiency of design to store more energy for a bigger boom
Shadow Broker Starship Tech
The ship ingeniously drew its power from the thunderstorms raging constantly on the planet it orbited, relying on an interlocking system of kinetic barriers, grounding rods and capacitors to avoid being ripped apart. These systems have repurposed for sections of the Crucible that require the safe discharge of tremendous amounts of energy.
EDIT – A grounding device to not cause the crucible/citadel to go boom with electrical discharges and a ship full of impure eezo.
Advanced Starship Fuel
Helium-3 is used to power the vast majority of commercial starships. Chemical engineers on Cyone added experiment mixtures of compounds to the gas to make a more efficient fuel for ships traveling long distances. One of their new formulas is used in ships transporting major loads of materials to the Crucible, speeding up the building process.
EDIT – Used in part as fuel for ships but used in part to create helium 4 – real life science bit - Fermionic condensates As the name suggests, a superfluid possesses fluid properties similar to those possessed by ordinary liquids and gases, such as the lack of a definite shape and the ability to flow in response to applied forces. However, superfluids possess some properties that do not appear in ordinary matter. For instance, they can flow at low velocities without dissipating any energy—i.e. zero viscosity. At higher velocities, energy is dissipated by the formation of quantized vortices, which act as "holes" in the medium where superfluidity breaks down.
More real life science - Superfluidity was originally discovered in liquid helium-4 - When liquid helium-4 is cooled to below 2.17 Kelvin (–271 °C) it becomes a superfluid, with properties that are very unlike those of an ordinary liquid. For example, if superfluid helium-4 is kept in an open vessel, a thin film will climb up the sides of the vessel and overflow. In this state and situation, it is called a "Rollin film"
As in many other systems, vortices can exist in BECs. These can be created, for example, by 'stirring' the condensate with lasers, or rotating the confining trap. The vortex created will be a quantum vortex. A principal property of superconductors is that they expel magnetic fields; this is called the Meissner effect. If the magnetic field becomes sufficiently strong, one scenario is for the superconductive state to be "quenched" (TURNED OFF). However, in some cases, it may be energetically favorable for the superconductor to form a lattice of quantum vortices, which carry quantized magnetic flux through the superconductor.
Any perfect conductor will prevent any change to magnetic flux passing through its surface due to ordinary electromagnetic induction at zero resistance. The Meissner effect is distinct from this: when an ordinary conductor is cooled so that it makes the transition to a superconducting state in the presence of a constant applied magnetic field, the magnetic flux is expelled during the transition. It should thus be noted that the placement and subsequent levitation of a magnet above an already superconducting material does not demonstrate the Meissner effect, while an initially stationary magnet later being repelled by a superconductor as it is cooled through its critical temperature does.
Prothean Data Files
the Crucible's blueprints provided the key to understanding the equations. Locked inside the discs were theories on dark matter meant to be used with the Crucible's main power source.
Edit – Combining dark matter with eezo creates impurities. (supposition)
Jovian Dissertation
A brief glance at the data hints at some kind of energetic pulse that might pass through the magnetosphere of a planet unimpeded, but any details are best derived by high-energy physicists.
EDIT – Creating an energetic pulse that pushes the Javalin after it has been magnetized and is floating on the magnetic rails due to the previous stuff
Dark Energy Dissertation
Published years ago by Dr. Conrad Verner, this doctorial dissertation on xenotechnology is a lengthy but intriguing argument that dark energy causes a minute but empirically observable difference in the passage of time.
EDIT Speeds up the time dilation thus creates a chain cascade event making the javelin travel faster than it would have. Plus when the Javelin explodes it releases dark energy causing another type of cascade to the barrier and possibly changing the location of the javelin upon hitting the actual Reaper when it goes boom (supposition)
Javelin Missile Launchers
Developed by the Alliance, Javelin missiles release dark energy upon impact. This creates devastating space-time disruptions, magnified warp fields that strip away a target's molecular bonds. Even the strongest kinetic barriers will eventually collapse after multiple impacts from these rockets.
EDIT – An object that can be supercooled thus converted to superconductivity then when it hits a kinetic barrier, its dark energy and eezo combines causing a chain cascade reaction of accelerated time and disruption of magnetic properties of the kinetic barriers causing it to have a catastrophic collapse and puncture the Reaper ship. It takes more than one Javelins given Javelins are not big. Hence also why they are installing them on ships. Put dark matter/eezo javelins and fire them at Reapers you have something like a quantum torpedo from Star Trek
Element Zero Converter
Element zero refineries are large industrial facilities that remove impurities from the element, also called eezo, before it is used to fuel starships or gravity generators. It's an important process, as sending an electrical charge through impure eezo can cause the element to explode.
EDIT – HMM…superconductive EEZO? And when that charge goes off inside the Javelin after hitting its target, the eezo/dark matter core will explode, just after the kinetic barrier falls and just after reaching the Reaper itself (remember the time dilation of Dark Energy (supposition).

The point of the catalyst in ME 3 in my opinion is to allow the crucible to fire at the Reapers wherever they are without being affected by the Crucible's energies or the Citadel's energies. While we still don't know what the Catalyst is we can infer the purpose of the Crucible and Citadel interactions. In other words it uses the Citadel to create a stable mass relay between the Citadel and the front of a Reaper (remember the citadel’s job is the manage the mass relays not the Reapers themselves). It can do this thanks to the ease of targeting explained below. Once it has found its target, a Javalin is magnetically charged, sent down the barrel with zero resistance, enters the citadel’s mass relay exits in front of a Reaper, flies with still zero resistance slams into the kinetic barrier, causing the Javelin to send an electrical pulse through the impure eezo/dark matter substance at the same time as sending a dark energy blast through the Reaper’s barrier, collapsing it. The ensuing explosion happens shortly after what’s left of the exploding Javelin Reaches or enters the Reaper’s hull This video is a crude example but it works. Think of everything I just said above to do exactly this:
Final Fantasy 7 Mako Cannon – The Reaper is the Weapon very far away. The targeting scanners for the gun is like the targeting I explained above, the kinetic barrier is like the barrier on the North Crater, the mako reactors is helium 4 being used to shoot, the shot itself is fired like a rail gun/mass driver, the explosion is the eezo/dark matter exploding, the disrupting barrier is via the dark energy and killing/damaging the Reaper at the same time.

#46370
CmdrShep80

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Now speculate away on my speculations LOL. I tried to use science fact as much as possible to explain how the crucible war assets would function. I left out the assets that only provided the structural makeup since we know what that looks like

#46371
Guest_magnetite_*

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I didn't realize that the room where Kasumi is during Mass Effect 2 on the Normandy, plays the same sound that James hears as a "hum" (or it's very similar). Not to mention, I found one of these:

Posted Image

There isn't that many of those "indoctrination symbols" as I call them on the Mass Effect 2 Normandy, but there's a lot more of them in Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par magnetite, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:21 .


#46372
CmdrShep80

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prettz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

They cast shadows even though they stand in a shadow? Their postures are mirrored?

has nothing to do with Shepard or Anderson, it's easier to see if you look at the picture full size.


to me the shadows look like reapers if you look at it right 

#46373
CmdrShep80

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MaximizedAction wrote...

There are three people in the pic.

edit: damn, :ph34r:'d


who is that person?

#46374
CmdrShep80

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@magnetite- are you referring to the nuclear symbol and the little symbol that looks like its radiating something in the pic?

#46375
masster blaster

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magnetite wrote...

Control explanation video is up