80611 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrShep80]

@Davik - "listen to yourself you're indoctrinated!" You're picking the synthesis choice LOL couldn't help myself

[Davik Kang]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 Just a reminder for the "is TIM indoctrinated or not"

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal meathods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Yeah that was a much better way of saying it, thanks.  

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 TIM-Shepard conversations (paragon). Just notice how TIM starts to be swayed by Shepard

KLT Kai Leng Theory.  Is Kai Leng actually Sovereign?  Etc.

[estebanus]

page 1864... The year, where Prussia took Schleswig-Holstein away from the danes...

Hey guys! What's new?

[Ithurael]

Davik Kang wrote...

KLT Kai Leng Theory.  Is Kai Leng actually Sovereign?  Etc.

Triple Kai Leng Theory FTW.

Explains the endings, the series, and life perfectly

[CmdrShep80]

Does anyone have a list of all the people on the memorial wall and where they come from easily handy?

[MaximizedAction]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 TIM-Shepard conversations (paragon). Just notice how TIM starts to be swayed by Shepard

It's fascinating how confident TIM still is during the convo on Cronos, and so calm, like he usually is, completely different from the TIM on the Citadel, where TIM seems like a one dimensional shadow of the previous TIM.

That calmness of him and the way he talks about Cerberus as if it was still working and breathing as if nothing happened...without us actually seeing the station being destroyed or at least some form of major explosion (yes, I, the viewer, am that simple minded) it's hard to believe that with the death of Leng everything TIM says on Cronos is bollocks, a result of him being indoctrinated.

Yeah, it all looks very suspicious, I feel like in the first Matrix.

[Andromidius]

SwobyJ wrote...

That reminds me of Kenson, who would basically shout out her plans along with a "Try to stop me!" in the effort to get Shepard to well, stop her. Even though she was 90% taken by the Reapers, her actions and words carried (when you actually paid attention, which most gamers seemingly don't) a subtext that she was struggling against the Reapers even at that point.

Same.  Also the logs left unlocked (or easily unlocked by EDI) scattered around his base for Shepard to find, and the fact TIM ordered Kai Leng not to kill him.  Suggestive stuff.

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

 TIM-Shepard conversations (paragon). Just notice how TIM starts to be swayed by Shepard

It's fascinating how confident TIM still is during the convo on Cronos, and so calm, like he usually is, completely different from the TIM on the Citadel, where TIM seems like a one dimensional shadow of the previous TIM.

That calmness of him and the way he talks about Cerberus as if it was still working and breathing as if nothing happened...without us actually seeing the station being destroyed or at least some form of major explosion (yes, I, the viewer, am that simple minded) it's hard to believe that with the death of Leng everything TIM says on Cronos is bollocks, a result of him being indoctrinated.

Yeah, it all looks very suspicious, I feel like in the first Matrix.

Indeed.  Its like denial is his only defense, keep denying it to yourself and maybe the Reapers still think he's useful.  Keep convincing them its part of the plan, that its under control, that Cerberus is still a power to be reckoned with.

Considering the Reaper's own hubris, its easy to see them lapping it up.

Edit: Also, nice little touch of reusing the Collector's theme in the Proto-Reaper room.  And the blue lights, after the redness of the previous rooms.

Modifié par Andromidius, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:17 .

[CmdrShep80]

We know what happened to Saren when that happened. Though this might relate to IT. Remember when Saren died, Sovereign took over his body. If TIM was really on the citadel, wouldn't a Reaper like Harbinger have done the same thing? Yet nothing happened to TIM when he died.

If TIM is really not there then where is the real TIM?

[Davik Kang]

Andromidius wrote...
There's still no rubble on the Citadel, so I'm afraid I'm going to continue to disagree with that notion.

Yeah but I wouldn't want everybody to agree with me anyway.  It's way more interesting like this, where everyone has slightly different ideas and theories, and how one theory has gathered so much support it has a reputation all of its own.

As for the rubble, I won't bring it all up here again.  It definitely looks like Earth.  It's just that if you look at the Destroy slide of the demolished Citadel, some of the rubble looks (to me) like it could be consistent with the breath scene.  The thing is, it seems ambiguous enough that I don't feel the need to argue it strongly either way.

spotlessvoid wrote...

My biggest question is if choosing destroy is activating the crucible, wouldn't the Reapers want to stall Shepard long enough to let them destroy the crucible? Starchild in fact does the opposite, even saying there isn't enough time to explain who came up with the crucible idea. If the point of it is to sway Shepard from activating the crucible, why not keep him busy and give the Reapers enough time to make it irrelevant? 

This is the biggest issue I have atm.  When trying to explain general stuff about the ending to the 'Bad Writiing' crowd, I start to fumble abuot a bit when explaining the Child conversation.

I can explain the Child's logic and I can explain Shepard's out-of-character reactions in fairly basic terms.  But explaining the actual structure of the conversation, in terms of being a hallucination over the control panel, becomes awkward, because it would basically have to be a mish-mash of information, which makes sense of itself the way a dream makes sense of itself.  That is, loads of thoughts are present in a dream, but we interpret tham as a straightforward story - when in fact it is just non-associated memories being jumbled together, amd we interpret them in a way that makes sense IRL, i.e. by events connected via a linear passage of time.

To me it makes sense to represent the hallucination in this way, but without a clear foreshadowing of this exact technique elsewhere in the narrative, I am unlikely to be able to convince the more hardcore players (IT, Literal or otherwise) of this point of view.  But as I said, I'm not on some crusade to convince everybody about anything, I just like talking about the ending.

[Andromidius]

I imagine we're all partially wrong, and partially right. Its good to disagree, so long as its civil.

And, you know, so long as no-one wants to turn me into a husk.

Edit;

TIM: "I'm done helping you."

Translation: "I can't answer that question because it'll be too obvious.  I have to fight you on this."

The way he retorts to losing Cerberus with "we've achieved more then I imagined" and "everything we've done has been to uplift Humanity" may also suggest that losing Cerberus was actually part of the plan.  Using the tactics of his enemies until its too dangerous to continue, then having Shepard end it and use everything Cerberus achieved to finish the job.

Modifié par Andromidius, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[demersel]

Note how TIM is apperantly talking to the image of Harbinger when speaking to shepard on mars... at least in the very beginning of the convo

Modifié par demersel, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[Andromidius]

Also note how the Prothean VI is relatively easily obtainable in TIM's office. And it wasn't deleted or taken when TIM fled the station and the order for all sensitive information to be deleted.

"Enjoy your little chat." Its a final gift?

Also, TIM told Vendetta about his plans.  The only way he could warn Shepard?

Modifié par Andromidius, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Davik Kang]

Andromidius wrote...
I imagine we're all partially wrong, and partially right. Its good to disagree, so long as its civil.

And, you know, so long as no-one wants to turn me into a husk.

I wonder what that Krogan avatar would look like with a glowing blue double-iris...

Andromidius wrote...
Edit: Also, nice little touch of reusing the Collector's theme in the Proto-Reaper room.  And the blue lights, after the redness of the previous rooms.

Hmm... now that's a point.  By salvaging whatever Sheaprd left of the Human Proto-Reaper, and working on it on Cronos Station, TIM may have inadvertently (or not?!?!) tunred Cronos into a new collector base.

Could it be that TIM's newly violent methods, and his ability to produce masses of expendable troops, have something to do with the dead Reaper presence there?  Especially considering that 

1) it's a human Reaper, thereby likely more in tune with human psyche, and 

2) we see in ME2 that even a dead Reaper can have serious influence on those nearby.

MaximizedAction wrote...

It's fascinating how confident TIM still is during the convo on Cronos, and so calm, like he usually is, completely different from the TIM on the Citadel, where TIM seems like a one dimensional shadow of the previous TIM.

That calmness of him and the way he talks about Cerberus as if it was still working and breathing as if nothing happened...without us actually seeing the station being destroyed or at least some form of major explosion (yes, I, the viewer, am that simple minded) it's hard to believe that with the death of Leng everything TIM says on Cronos is bollocks, a result of him being indoctrinated.

Yeah I agree, both TIM's calm confidence, and the lack of a Cronos destruction cutscene, are at least suspicious at that point in the game...

[demersel]

Watching those conversations with TIM gives me strong impression that there will be a citadel DLC - that will have the real ending. it is all there - give me the catalyst and we can and it with the crucible - it's not that simple - It is! It is that simple! .

[Andromidius]

Davik Kang wrote...
Hmm... now that's a point.  By salvaging whatever Sheaprd left of the Human Proto-Reaper, and working on it on Cronos Station, TIM may have inadvertently (or not?!?!) tunred Cronos into a new collector base.

Could it be that TIM's newly violent methods, and his ability to produce masses of expendable troops, have something to do with the dead Reaper presence there?  Especially considering that 

1) it's a human Reaper, thereby likely more in tune with human psyche, and 

2) we see in ME2 that even a dead Reaper can have serious influence on those nearby.

It also explains how Cerberus created a huge army in a limited space of time.  Sanctuary may have been an experiment to try and create indoctrinated troops without the influence of the Proto-Reaper, and hense why the facility was attacked by Reaper forces.

Still doesn't explain how Cerberus managed to create so many warships in secret.  But one step at a time.

[Davik Kang]

Andromidius wrote...
The way he retorts to losing Cerberus with "we've achieved more then I imagined" and "everything we've done has been to uplift Humanity" may also suggest that losing Cerberus was actually part of the plan.  Using the tactics of his enemies until its too dangerous to continue, then having Shepard end it and use everything Cerberus achieved to finish the job.

The Prothean cycle's Crucible was sabotaged by a separatist group who wanetd to control the Reapers.  Now I'd always assumed that the designs had been sabotaged, hence why control function might be possible (if it is possible)... but I wonder if actually, history has repeated itself by TIM giving us the Proto-Reaper parts, which we always install for some reason, and thereby indirectly sabotaging this Crucible project just like last time?  I have nothing concrete, but that would be a classic evil-genius plan...

Andromidius wrote...
Still doesn't explain how Cerberus managed to create so many warships in secret.  But one step at a time.

The Star Forge!

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

Watching those conversations with TIM gives me strong impression that there will be a citadel DLC - that will have the real ending. it is all there - give me the catalyst and we can and it with the crucible - it's not that simple - It is! It is that simple! .

Mike Gamble said a few days ago that BioWare was working on a DLC that was like they had never done before.

[paxxton]

Also, thefirst50blackopsownerswhosendtheirpicturewithame2dvdtobiowarewillgetmetrilogyforfree.

Modifié par paxxton, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:48 .

[Andromidius]

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

Watching those conversations with TIM gives me strong impression that there will be a citadel DLC - that will have the real ending. it is all there - give me the catalyst and we can and it with the crucible - it's not that simple - It is! It is that simple! .

Mike Gamble said a few days ago that BioWare was working on a DLC that was like they had never done before.

Though the next comment was something along the lines of "like always!"

Gamble gives Javik a run for his money as the master troll.

[CmdrShep80]

Hmm. Did you notice that TIM explicitly asks you to ask vendetta about the catalyst in the 3rd convo?

Also did you also notice in that same Convo TIM says he already has what Shepard is looking for. At that point of the game Shepard is looking for the catalyst.

If the citadel is the catalyst then TIM had however long that Cerberus base mission was to acquire and move the citadel. If the citadel is not the catalyst then what is?

[CmdrShep80]

paxxton wrote...

Also, thefirst50blackopsownerswhosendtheirpicturewithame2dvdtobiowarewillgetmetrilogyforfree.

so it was on purpose?

[Eryri]

Andromidius wrote...

paxxton wrote...

demersel wrote...

Watching those conversations with TIM gives me strong impression that there will be a citadel DLC - that will have the real ending. it is all there - give me the catalyst and we can and it with the crucible - it's not that simple - It is! It is that simple! .

Mike Gamble said a few days ago that BioWare was working on a DLC that was like they had never done before.

Though the next comment was something along the lines of "like always!"

Gamble gives Javik a run for his money as the master troll.

One of the other devs also tweeted about finishing work on a difficult piece of "logic".

I wonder if they're planning some new gameplay mode, such as actually being able to control the Normandy itself?

Fighting reapers in space with the Normandy could make for a hell of a boss battle. And ME3 has had a conspicuous absence of vehicle sections compared to the other two games.