80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

I'm still wondering if BW is running some kind of sociological study on its gamers. We're all test subjects. Those who see IT are the outliers, the minority, the ones that cannot be indoctrinated or can break free from it. Those who don't evolve into indoctrinated drones that don't think for themselves. They are the masses. Always have been. Always will be.

This sense of superiority isn't one bit better.

It's not superiority if it's a fact. Look around you. The world is filled with automotons who just act and don't think. We're all indoctrinated to a myriad of beliefs. Some are far more dangerous than others. Some seem harmless but are destructive nevertheless. If you aren't aware of how various elements of  the world will use and manipulate you to their agends either for profit or power or whatever else they want, then you are a tool and at some point in life people should be able to figure it out. If not, they do lack the ability to see through the veil of lies that we are told and yet one by one these lies are peeled away like layers on an onion until the truth is seen. How many times does one have to see that to figure out the only true path is the one that is yours and follows nobody else's as laid out for you.

People either wake up and see what is happening or they don't. That is not superiority. It is not a sense of superiority. It is awareness and not taking things at face value or as they are told to you. It is having a mind of your own that you use to discover truth. You don't just accept something as truth because it was handed to you on a silver platter. You set out to discover truth, your truth or truth in general.

Label me or my words as you will. It is of little concern to me. I am awake. I am aware. Does that make me superior? No. It makes me awake, aware and able to discern what is a lie or manipulation from what is not.

http://social.biowar...7/1830#14898576
There are certainly lies, but not everything is. With that post you claim to always have the answer, and you ignore everything that counters it. There is more then enough for both so you cannot know which is real, but you say not believing in IT or something similar is stupid. I quote "But you know what the sadest part is - that they are indoctrinated due to their own idiocy. [...] Who is strong minded enough to get it and who is not. Who can see beyond the literal and who cannot. [...] Those who see IT are the outliers, the minority, the ones that cannot be indoctrinated or can break free from it. Those who don't evolve into indoctrinated drones that don't think for themselves." That is not seeing the truth. That is a blind reflection of what you think is right and you know about the contents of the games.

You can say what you like, Megumi. A lack of intelligence is required to miss the clues in front of your face to solve a mystery

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...
It's not superiority if it's a fact. Look around you. The world is filled with automotons who just act and don't think. We're all indoctrinated to a myriad of beliefs. Some are far more dangerous than others. Some seem harmless but are destructive nevertheless. If you aren't aware of how various elements of  the world will use and manipulate you to their agends either for profit or power or whatever else they want, then you are a tool and at some point in life people should be able to figure it out. If not, they do lack the ability to see through the veil of lies that we are told and yet one by one these lies are peeled away like layers on an onion until the truth is seen. How many times does one have to see that to figure out the only true path is the one that is yours and follows nobody else's as laid out for you.

People either wake up and see what is happening or they don't. That is not superiority. It is not a sense of superiority. It is awareness and not taking things at face value or as they are told to you. It is having a mind of your own that you use to discover truth. You don't just accept something as truth because it was handed to you on a silver platter. You set out to discover truth, your truth or truth in general.

Label me or my words as you will. It is of little concern to me. I am awake. I am aware. Does that make me superior? No. It makes me awake, aware and able to discern what is a lie or manipulation from what is not.

Well said.

It certainly doesn't make me feel happy or superior when I see people not even thinking about or considering (or worse, ignoring) the lore behind the Mass Effect series, the conversations we've had and the events we've witnessed over the course of the three games when we talk about the final decision in the game.

In fact, when I see people simply forgetting their experiences altogether in favour of taking everything the Catalyst tells you as the gospel truth, it really makes me quite sad.

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...
It's not superiority if it's a fact. Look around you. The world is filled with automotons who just act and don't think. We're all indoctrinated to a myriad of beliefs. Some are far more dangerous than others. Some seem harmless but are destructive nevertheless. If you aren't aware of how various elements of  the world will use and manipulate you to their agends either for profit or power or whatever else they want, then you are a tool and at some point in life people should be able to figure it out. If not, they do lack the ability to see through the veil of lies that we are told and yet one by one these lies are peeled away like layers on an onion until the truth is seen. How many times does one have to see that to figure out the only true path is the one that is yours and follows nobody else's as laid out for you.

People either wake up and see what is happening or they don't. That is not superiority. It is not a sense of superiority. It is awareness and not taking things at face value or as they are told to you. It is having a mind of your own that you use to discover truth. You don't just accept something as truth because it was handed to you on a silver platter. You set out to discover truth, your truth or truth in general.

Label me or my words as you will. It is of little concern to me. I am awake. I am aware. Does that make me superior? No. It makes me awake, aware and able to discern what is a lie or manipulation from what is not.

Well said.

It certainly doesn't make me feel happy or superior when I see people not even thinking about or considering (or worse, ignoring) the lore behind the Mass Effect series, the conversations we've had and the events we've witnessed over the course of the three games when we talk about the final decision in the game.

In fact, when I see people simply forgetting their experiences altogether in favour of taking everything the Catalyst tells you as the gospel truth, it really makes me quite sad.

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

I usually don't post with manga, but this fits too well with this conversation:
http://ts4.mm.bing.n...881931&pid=15.1

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance, and his/her post was full of it.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:40 .

[spotlessvoid]

The difference between IT and synthesis supporters is IT is still ultimately about a game interpretation, where synthesis is about deeply held beliefs. It's what synthesis represents, and their religious devotion to it, that is so disturbing. A lot of ITers are willing to concede Bioware may have messed up, but fund it doubtful based on in game evidence. Synthesis supporters in general seem like, no matter what Bioware could say, stand by that choice based on their view of humanity and the world in general.

[Restrider]

Ithurael wrote...


Technically if we don't trust anything he says then refuse is the ultimate indoctrination-breaker.

He presents you with all three options but hides refuse, you need to go one step futher to chose it (either by shooting him or using the dialog wheel to reject him). If any ending breaks indoctrination it would be refuse because you are:
1 - rejecting all logic and choices (thus rejecting the indoctrination completly)
2 - Shepard acts like shepard showing that the reaper influence has not broken him down.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Refuse is the best option.

Seconded and QFT.
You hear me BW?!? We want successful Refuse!

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

[demersel]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Within the context of the game we are given renegade points for ruthless actions. I'm not saying that applies to real life, obviously, since you don't get renegade points for things you do in real life.

This post is a game related post. In game actions and how they are treated. You threw virmire in there and I pointed out that all the major missions in ME1 were examples of destroy and you didn't have a choice to not do them but you were taking the action. They also didn't involve renegade actions unless you killed the colonists or the rachni queen. So if you are pointing out that virmire is an example of destroy foreshadowing then you might as well say ME1 is an example of destroy foreshadowing since all you do is destroy things minus a few choices wherre you don't. So they really don't foreshadow unless it is a choice. If it is a choice, it has renegade/paragon points. That is the construct of the game. The rachni queen, wrex, and the council save/don't save are the main choices you make that are destroy related and all give you paragon/renegade points.

I speak only in context of the game, and yes i would say that entire ME1 and ME2 is destroy foreshadowing. 
And you don't get renegade points for picking destroy, btw, so why do you even consider it renegade  You don't get renegade points for killing the batarians with alpha relay. And in fact you don't even have a choice not to do that. So what? that means that this is suddenly not a ruthless calculus of war, cause it is the only option and it doesn't give renegade points? What does renegade or paragon thing has to do at all with what is right and what is wrong? So ok, destroy is renegade choice. Which is paragan? Control? Synthesis? Refuse? No paragon choice? bt destroy is renegade, for sure? 

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

The core only suggests there is a good chance that it's indoctrination. Fact is you cannot tell. Denying that is still ignorance.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

"Our judgements must be based on facts and evidence, not wild imaginings and reckless speculation." -Councilor Sparatus

[IronSabbath88]

The speech Shepard gives in Refuse is exactly what has been echoed throughout the series. It just felt so epic and had so much win potential.

... it's kind of funny that what BioWare considers a "lose" scenario best described what my Shepard stood for. I united the damn galaxy, I brought peace among the Geth and Quarians. I proved you wrong, Catalyst, now ****** off, I have a war to finish, and if I die, then I die knowing I fought!

... the amount of win is off the charts.

[DoomsdayDevice]

My development within my interpretation has been interesting (at least to myself).

- I started out thinking Shepard was actually on the Citadel, and it was just the child that was in Shep's head, and that the destroy ending actually happened. (Basically, Davik Kang's interpretation) I clung to this for a while, because I didn't want to accept that the destroy ending actually didn't happen, and that the game had no ending if interpreted otherwise.

- Then the dream halo after Harbinger's blast, the exploding Citadel, and the breath scene convinced me to think Shepard wasn't even on the Citadel. Then Leviathan completely confirmed for me that the entire ending was in fact an illusion. However, the ambiguousness of the ending still made me feel like Bioware wanted to leave it open to interpretation, and I still felt like there would be no follow up to the ending and (like Bill Casey) that our victory was implied.

- Then I started to collect the IT-supporting quotes, and in doing so I started seeing so many hints, and started to make so many connections that slowly convinced me there is going to be a follow up to the ending after all. I hate to admit it, because I was always convinced that Bioware would never be prescriptive about it, and it makes me feel like a tinfoil crazy.

There's just an entire dual layer in the game. In everything. There's hidden meaning everywhere.... from the Vigil theme being subliminally present in the main menu music (you can only hear it when you pay close attention) to dialogue about virtual realities and illusions, it all just being a nightmare, up to and including one that actually hints that the "catalyst" is an unshackled AI who tries to tell us what reality is, etcetera. The Asari Goddess isn't a goddess, it's just a Prothean (hint hint, the godlike "catalyst" is just a Reaper), the Sanctuary project isn't the promised paradise, it's a trap where people are being 'integrated' with technology to become mind-controlled Cerberus husks (hint hint: synthesis isn't what it looks like), etcetera.

Now, there's a whole bunch of dialogue and other things in the game that has a certain 4th-wall-breaking quality to it. Where, if you try and interpret it outside of the game's context, it could be a message to the player that this is not the end of it.

Now what I'd like to know is what you guys think of these things. Do you think these could be indications of the story not being over, or am I just imagining things?

Some examples off the top of my head:

Bailey: I think all the reports are starting to sink in. You can only live in denial so long.
Shepard: You either wake up or die. (...)
Bailey: I guess it's not just human nature. We all lie to ourselves to deal with horror.

(This seems to be saying to the player: if you don't pick destroy, you die. The other endings are horror, realize this.)

Garrus: (...) "Now they find out it was all a lie.They wake up to see these things in the dark that just want to destroy everyone they ever cared about.If they survive, there'll be a lot of angry orphans out there looking for answers."

(This seems to be about players whose Shepard survived, and who realize the ending was all a lie, and that the Reapers are still around)

Shepard: "We did present them with a lot of unknowns. They're feeling threatened and want immediate solutions, not theories."

(This seems to be about players being angry and trying to make sense of the endings)
Hackett: "Right now, theories are all we've got." (We'll get more clarification later)

(FOB) Shepard: (...) "Not necessarily our last." (fight)

(Self-explanatory... you could argue this  could simply be about DLC, buuuut, only if it is post-ending DLC.)

(FOB) Shepard: "You have to believe this is not the end." (Self-explanatory)

(FOB) Liara, showing Shepard there will be light after the darkness. After Leviathan, I interpreted this as 'the darkness will be breached', there will be a light of hope after the grim darkness of the ending, we will see the light after breaking free of indoctrination.

Stargazer: One more story about the Shepard. (DLC advertizement? Or new game about Shepard?)

The only thing that keeps me sceptical is Bioware's PR. Then again, if they intended to decieve us and blow us away later, it would make sense they would deny everything. I guess I just don't want to be disappointed. But I really can't help thinking these are hints, even though I have never really believed in the 'reveal'. It looks like I'm slowly coming around.

Am I the only one?

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 15 novembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[BatmanTurian]

Restrider wrote...

Ithurael wrote...


Technically if we don't trust anything he says then refuse is the ultimate indoctrination-breaker.

He presents you with all three options but hides refuse, you need to go one step futher to chose it (either by shooting him or using the dialog wheel to reject him). If any ending breaks indoctrination it would be refuse because you are:
1 - rejecting all logic and choices (thus rejecting the indoctrination completly)
2 - Shepard acts like shepard showing that the reaper influence has not broken him down.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Refuse is the best option.

Seconded and QFT.
You hear me BW?!? We want successful Refuse!

That would be nice, but Destroy is best for now, since it's what the Kid doesn't want and Refuse just leads to extinction. The Theory will be revised when evidence is given to support Refuse.

[spotlessvoid]

Maybe Virmire is foreshadowing that sometimes you can't choose the path to victory. There is only one way to win.

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

The core only suggests there is a good chance that it's indoctrination. Fact is you cannot tell. Denying that is still ignorance.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I already know it's possible to be wrong. Save your sermons for someone who deserves it.

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

The core only suggests there is a good chance that it's indoctrination. Fact is you cannot tell. Denying that is still ignorance.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I already know it's possible to be wrong. Save your sermons for someone who deserves it.

This statement is conflict with "Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon."

[spotlessvoid]

DD....no, you're not the only one. Bioware may also be kind of disappointed at the fan reaction and gone into a more defensive posture. "You don't get it? Fine here's a couple shiny pictures to look at. Now shut up and let the grown ups get their work done"

Or
"Stupid ITers will buy anything"

I mean if there really is no pay off, why won't Mike Gamble respond to the community managers comments that no additional content is coming. He's answered all my other questions, and even acknowledged the IT DLC question indirectly by answering another question in the same tweet. If what the community managers said is true, why have a dev remain completely silent about it?

Does trolling the most dedicated portion of their fanbase seem like it makes sense? Nobody believes in their ability more than ITers. Why the hell would they troll the people who revere them?

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:00 .

[spotlessvoid]

Btw, I personally am not 100% convinced of classic IT, but I'm just about certain some version of it is correct.

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Agreed. The ignorance cloaked in faux-intellectual arguments makes me facepalm every time. I can't even go into the Synthesis Compendium thread. I know I'll want to say something and everyone in there will just ignore the facts to support their favored headcanon.

It doesn't matter which side is right, but how is that different from about 99% of the people who support IT?

Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon. Look at the synthesis compendium thread. It's only a wishlist for misanthropic transhumanism.

Then look again over the threads and you will see lots of stuff that was first "figured out" later got debunked or a stamp of "you can't say anything based of it when you regard additional stuff".
And lots of these also had protests or still hold up in peoples minds for a long time because they wanted it to support their theory. As I said it's completely irrelevant which side is right. Both sides have a lot of ignorance.

The core of our argument is sound and based on reason, facts, and evidence. That should be enough. I don't care about or count the outliers.

The core only suggests there is a good chance that it's indoctrination. Fact is you cannot tell. Denying that is still ignorance.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I already know it's possible to be wrong. Save your sermons for someone who deserves it.

This statement is conflict with "Because we have facts and evidence. They have headcanon."

This statement is pragmatism. I can be 99% sure and 1% doubtful. You are really a nag sometimes.

[estebanus]

starlitegirlx wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

I'm still wondering if BW is running some kind of sociological study on its gamers. We're all test subjects. Those who see IT are the outliers, the minority, the ones that cannot be indoctrinated or can break free from it. Those who don't evolve into indoctrinated drones that don't think for themselves. They are the masses. Always have been. Always will be.

This sense of superiority isn't one bit better.

It's not superiority if it's a fact. Look around you. The world is filled with automotons who just act and don't think. We're all indoctrinated to a myriad of beliefs. Some are far more dangerous than others. Some seem harmless but are destructive nevertheless. If you aren't aware of how various elements of  the world will use and manipulate you to their agends either for profit or power or whatever else they want, then you are a tool and at some point in life people should be able to figure it out. If not, they do lack the ability to see through the veil of lies that we are told and yet one by one these lies are peeled away like layers on an onion until the truth is seen. How many times does one have to see that to figure out the only true path is the one that is yours and follows nobody else's as laid out for you.

People either wake up and see what is happening or they don't. That is not superiority. It is not a sense of superiority. It is awareness and not taking things at face value or as they are told to you. It is having a mind of your own that you use to discover truth. You don't just accept something as truth because it was handed to you on a silver platter. You set out to discover truth, your truth or truth in general.

Label me or my words as you will. It is of little concern to me. I am awake. I am aware. Does that make me superior? No. It makes me awake, aware and able to discern what is a lie or manipulation from what is not.

http://social.biowar...7/1830#14898576
There are certainly lies, but not everything is. With that post you claim to always have the answer, and you ignore everything that counters it. There is more then enough for both so you cannot know which is real, but you say not believing in IT or something similar is stupid. I quote "But you know what the sadest part is - that they are indoctrinated due to their own idiocy. [...] Who is strong minded enough to get it and who is not. Who can see beyond the literal and who cannot. [...] Those who see IT are the outliers, the minority, the ones that cannot be indoctrinated or can break free from it. Those who don't evolve into indoctrinated drones that don't think for themselves." That is not seeing the truth. That is a blind reflection of what you think is right and you know about the contents of the games.

You can say what you like, Megumi. A lack of intelligence is required to miss the clues in front of your face to solve a mystery

Thank you BatmanTurian!

Also, for the record, it can be said that I am indoctrinated to IT. However, my reasons are based on evidence, actual in game clues and symbology, dialogue, and common sense.

And I will take jabs at people who cannot see beyond the literal interpretation because I have no use for people who lack open mindedness and a willingness to see things from a different perspective. I chose control in my first run. Later I discovered IT and was openminded enough to learn about it as much as possible. Then I changed my perspective based on evidence which I took the time to gather. So yes, people are close minded fools if they don't even give other perspectives a chance. I've seen it in my life, and it is a dangerous thing.

Also, I did not say everything is a lie. That is a broad assumption you make to defend your reasoning which is flawed. I have said that you have to examine and learn. I have said that you have to decide. I have restated this consistently. Everything is not a lie. That would be impossible. That you even write that shows how desperately you're looking for a fight. Find it elsewhere. I refuse to debate with someone whose key point is as illogical as "there are certainly lies, but not everything is," which is the most absurd statement I've read to date and goes directly against my statement that you have to find the truth. By stating that one has to find the truth I have stated that there must be truth.

Not believing in IT is stupid. There is evidence throughout the entire game which only a slow minded, close minded individual or one who is not paying attention could miss. I will not defend people who ignore all the evidence because they are IDIOTS!

What you're saying is hypocrisy. You say that you hate people who aren't open-minded, while at the same time saying that Everyone who doesn't believe in the IT are close-minded idiots. Those two things can not cope.

[MegumiAzusa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

DD....no. Bioware may also be kind of disappointed at the fan reaction and gone into a more defensive posture. "You don't get it? Fine here's a couple shiny pictures to look at. Now shut up and let the grown ups get their work done"

Or
"Stupid ITers will buy anything"

I mean if there really is no pay off, why won't Mike Gamble respond to the community managers comments that no additional content is coming. He's answered all my other questions, and even acknowledged the IT DLC question indirectly by answering another question in the same tweet. If what the community managers said is true, why have a dev remain completely silent about it?

Does trolling the most dedicated portion of their fanbase seem like it makes sense? Nobody believes in their ability more than ITers. Why the hell would they troll the people who revere them?

Have you ever considered that it might not be about Shepard might being indoctrinated but the question itself? Mass Effect has more then one layer, and you're only thinking on one all the time. You still act like everything is either right or wrong.

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Btw, I personally am not 100% convinced of classic IT, but I'm just about certain some version of it is correct.

This. I'm in the PT + IT + possible WNT.

[MaximizedAction]

spotlessvoid wrote...

DD....no, you're not the only one. Bioware may also be kind of disappointed at the fan reaction and gone into a more defensive posture. "You don't get it? Fine here's a couple shiny pictures to look at. Now shut up and let the grown ups get their work done"

Or
"Stupid ITers will buy anything"

I mean if there really is no pay off, why won't Mike Gamble respond to the community managers comments that no additional content is coming. He's answered all my other questions, and even acknowledged the IT DLC question indirectly by answering another question in the same tweet. If what the community managers said is true, why have a dev remain completely silent about it?

Does trolling the most dedicated portion of their fanbase seem like it makes sense? Nobody believes in their ability more than ITers. Why the hell would they troll the people who revere them?

For the sake of completeness, I'll add to that that Mike Gamble did comment on Chris' post by saying they (paraphrasing) "already mentioned this many times that commander shepard's story was done"

/god I suck, I remember that he didn't use capital letters but I don't remember the content.