Ce sujet est ferméEdit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
Modifié par Dwailing, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:57 .
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!
Débuté par
byne
, juil. 30 2012 07:09
#47051
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:55
Dwailing
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Alright, you know what? I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS! Estebanus, you've become a real jerk (And several other words I won't use) since you became a Literalist. And Batman, Megumi and estebanus DO have a point. To say that all people who don't accept our position are completely close-minded is, in fact, rather close-minded. And Megumi, there's a difference between not contributing anything to the conversation and actually detracting from it. Spotless if doing the former, estebanus is doing the latter. Now, unless you're all willing to calm down and accept that ALL of you are wrong in some way (Including myself, about certain things, most likely.), I'm DONE! Out of here. I have better things to do than watch this group tear itself apart with petty, pointless squabbling.
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
Retour en haut
#47052
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:56
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SwobyJ wrote...
starlitegirlx wrote...
Actually though, Gerrel, while his actions are ruthless is a perfect example of destroy and maybe where destroy within the hallucination comes into play. Until now, I hadn't really seen an example of destroy in the game that caused casualties and an ethical dilemma as it is presented in IT destroy option. But there it is. It represents the ruthless calculus of war. It represents destroy as the best option because despite that shepard and crew are on that ship, it HAD to be destroyed. I doubt anyone thinks otherwise. We're just sided against it because gerrel didn't care that shepard and crew were on it. But his choice foreshadows destroy as the only option. Had he not destroyed that ship, it would have led to the destruction of the quarians being the monster it was. And yet, most of us hate what gerrel did, which is quite interesting since it had to be done.
Gerrel's actions are foreshadowing destroy perfectly. A horrible decision one has to make but clearly the right one. There will be casualties. We've got that ruthless calculus of war issue again, but those few dead are symbolic of aiding the fleet toward saving it, however, there were several more missions to complete before saving it (the server, saving koris, and final rannoch mission). Now, I'm wondering if this foreshadowing (which to my recollection is the ONLY foreshadowing we have of destroy option in action rather than just dialogue) is hinting toward there being more to complete the destroy option as in there is more to follow the destroy choice in the chamber. The chamber was like the dreadnaught. But there were other things that had to be done to complete the destruction. Taking out the dreadnaught did some damage just as choosing destroy in the chamber. But at that point on rannoch it was far from over and if you look at the symbology, the wrap up of it was the destruction of the reaper after some other missions. I wonder if, for those of us following the symbolism and foreshadowing - is rannoch how things will play out via future DLCs?
So what you're saying is that even symbolically, the (London+Conduit+Citadel+Crucible)/Dream is actually just the first part of the truly final act of ME3? Like how Geth Dreadnaught is the intro to the Quarian/Rannoch act?
I'm saying that I think because I believe Gerrel's actions foreshadow destroy and then that whole series of missions ends with a fleet killing a reaper, I suspect we may not have seen the last bit because no reaper was killed yet since we left rannoch but most especially since london. And it's interesting that it took a fleet to take down that reaper on rannoch. But on earth, no reaper is taken down. No reaper is even attacked. It's all about getting to the crucible. So if we use the rannoch series of events, that final part where the reaper is killed has yet to happen. I'm wondering if that's going to come into play in DLC at some point.
So I guess, yes, it's what I think is the first part of the final act IF my suspicions are correct.
#47053
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:56
spotlessvoid
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Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
I don't even disagree with Megumi, despite her recent rudeness. Estebanus has zero credibility with me. This is the same person who posted a gun pic and told someone to off themselves a week ago. Now I'm supposed to give credence to his moral compass? What a joke.
#47054
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:58
paxxton
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LOL @MegumiAzusa! Everyone, get out! 
Modifié par paxxton, 15 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .
#47055
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:58
Dwailing
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spotlessvoid wrote...
Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
I don't even disagree with Megumi, despite her recent rudeness. Estebanus has zero credibility with me. This is the same person who posted a gun pic and told someone to off themselves a week ago. Now I'm supposed to give credence to his moral compass? What a joke.
After this, I'm gone.
Estebanus wasn't telling the guy to off himself. He was actually telling him to remove a certain part of his anatomy that shall remain implied rather than stated.
#47056
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 07:59
estebanus
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Finally a voice of reason!Davik Kang wrote...
Guys guys cmon stop the bickering. Megumi and Estebanus are making fair points. There's a history of animosity which is clouding the issue.
Many people on these forums are close-minded, arrogant and unpleasant. They attack anything and everything, and it makes a lot of people, not just ITers, naturally defensive.
This means that when someone comes into a thread with an opposite view, it can often seem intentionally hostile. And sometimes it is. But not always.
Starlite was making a whole bunch of points at once. Many of them were about Destroy and froeshadowing. Maybe the post went a bit far in attacking people who don't like IT. There are a lot of people who use garbage logic and circular arguments to try to belittle those who put effort in to try to understand the ending.
But there are others who just disagree, There are also some who may not be that bright, but they don't deserve to be trashed and criticised. If I go see a film and I don't get it, that doesn't make me an idiot who needs to be put in my place. Otherwise everyone would be an idiot except those who understood every film or book or story. And I doubt such a person exists.
Imo, Starlite was making a good point but went a bit far. I don't support bashing people just because you think they're not as clever as you. In fact I abhore it. I think the hypocrisy came by accident, because it was a response to the real problem.
Imo, the real problem is the people who just love to hate without reason. Not synthesis people, not people who didn't like the ending, not people who didn't understand it. It's the people who come online just to mock people who don't agree with them.
Problems arise when we generalise people who don't disagree with us, because then we become that kind of person. If you generalise anti-enders, synthesists, non-ITers, etc. you will end up offending people and pissing people off that just don't deserve it.
In short - everyone in here is making some effort to understand the ending. There are no unreasonable people regularly posting in this thread. There's a bad feeling that permeates BSN but I hope we can avoid taking it out on each other.
#47057
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:00
estebanus
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And not only that, IT. WAS. A. JOKE.Dwailing wrote...
spotlessvoid wrote...
Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
I don't even disagree with Megumi, despite her recent rudeness. Estebanus has zero credibility with me. This is the same person who posted a gun pic and told someone to off themselves a week ago. Now I'm supposed to give credence to his moral compass? What a joke.
After this, I'm gone.
Estebanus wasn't telling the guy to off himself. He was actually telling him to remove a certain part of his anatomy that shall remain implied rather than stated.
#47058
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:01
Ithurael
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spotlessvoid wrote...
Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
I don't even disagree with Megumi, despite her recent rudeness. Estebanus has zero credibility with me. This is the same person who posted a gun pic and told someone to off themselves a week ago. Now I'm supposed to give credence to his moral compass? What a joke.
Off topic:
You agree with the point, not the person IMO.
Do you really want this thread closed for bickering and such? Srsly? Of all the reasons for this to be closed.
/off topic
#47059
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:01
MegumiAzusa
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That was the start of it, yes.Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
#47060
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:02
Humakt83
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Is it drama time again? Or did it pass already?
#47061
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:02
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DoomsdayDevice wrote...
It needs to be pointed out that a lot of people seem to misunderstand the puzzle theory; the puzzle theory is based on additions in the form of DLC eventually turning the refuse option into a successful victory, NOT the destroy option.
Which is why I can't support the puzzle theory. Your friends and allies tell you to destroy, not to 'don't do anything if you're unsure'. Not to mention the fact that refuse wasn't one of the original endings.
This is why I can't fully support Puzzle Theory.
I'm more thinking that DLC just illuminates and elaborates certain ideas and details, instead of changing the ending.
Then, either a singular DLC or a full expansion will take place after the Breath scene (or maybe any ending you pick save Refuse!). The real 'ending' to Bioware would be the Stargazer scene after everything.
And then, if there's an expansion coming, its technically not just 'post-ending DLC' so Bioware would be able to make changes to the Stargazer scene too. No more 'one more story' if you have the expansion,
#47062
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:02
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Pretty much.MegumiAzusa wrote...
That was the start of it, yes.Ithurael wrote...
I would say Megumi and Estebanus are just trying to remind people to keep an open mind.
nothing wrong in that. IT or literalist, in the end they are both interpretations.
#47063
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:02
spotlessvoid
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That's not how most people took it, and it's still makes the whole thread look like it's filled with psychos. Not buying. Don't care.
#47064
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:03
demersel
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Dwailing wrote...
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
Lack of new data.
#47065
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:03
estebanus
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It's nearing the end, definately.Humakt83 wrote...
Is it drama time again? Or did it pass already?
#47066
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:04
estebanus
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If you don't care, then why bring it up?spotlessvoid wrote...
That's not how most people took it, and it's still makes the whole thread look like it's filled with psychos. Not buying. Don't care.
#47067
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:04
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BatmanTurian wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
It needs to be pointed out that a lot of people seem to misunderstand the puzzle theory; the puzzle theory is based on additions in the form of DLC eventually turning the refuse option into a successful victory, NOT the destroy option.
Which is why I can't support the puzzle theory. Your friends and allies tell you to destroy, not to 'don't do anything if you're unsure'. Not to mention the fact that refuse wasn't one of the original endings.
I understand Puzzle Theory, but I don't believe it leads to a successful Refuse. It's the only part I disagree with Jade about. I think Refuse is the developers being passive-aggressive.
I can see that, yet at the same time, I see Refuse as them being passive-supportive as well. Refuse, as shown in the EC, bolsters certain IT-related ideas.
In fact, a lot of EC and Leviathan give me this feeling of Bioware going: "Alright, you're on the right track here, here's some more to keep you busy. Keep up the hard work!"
#47068
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:05
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Davik Kang wrote...
Guys guys cmon stop the bickering. Megumi and Estebanus are making fair points. There's a history of animosity which is clouding the issue.
Many people on these forums are close-minded, arrogant and unpleasant. They attack anything and everything, and it makes a lot of people, not just ITers, naturally defensive.
This means that when someone comes into a thread with an opposite view, it can often seem intentionally hostile. And sometimes it is. But not always.
Starlite was making a whole bunch of points at once. Many of them were about Destroy and froeshadowing. Maybe the post went a bit far in attacking people who don't like IT. There are a lot of people who use garbage logic and circular arguments to try to belittle those who put effort in to try to understand the ending.
But there are others who just disagree, There are also some who may not be that bright, but they don't deserve to be trashed and criticised. If I go see a film and I don't get it, that doesn't make me an idiot who needs to be put in my place. Otherwise everyone would be an idiot except those who understood every film or book or story. And I doubt such a person exists.
Imo, Starlite was making a good point but went a bit far. I don't support bashing people just because you think they're not as clever as you. In fact I abhore it. I think the hypocrisy came by accident, because it was a response to the real problem.
Imo, the real problem is the people who just love to hate without reason. Not synthesis people, not people who didn't like the ending, not people who didn't understand it. It's the people who come online just to mock people who don't agree with them.
Problems arise when we generalise people who don't disagree with us, because then we become that kind of person. If you generalise anti-enders, synthesists, non-ITers, etc. you will end up offending people and pissing people off that just don't deserve it.
In short - everyone in here is making some effort to understand the ending. There are no unreasonable people regularly posting in this thread. There's a bad feeling that permeates BSN but I hope we can avoid taking it out on each other.
You are right. I guess I did go to far. I woke up to read some troll post and it was the last thing. Why is it okay for people to come in here an make shots at us and we take it over and over. Actually, I don't think they're idiots so much as not willing to look at the options. I use idiots when I'm angry or hurt. But it seems that there are few that care to even bother seeing our side, which I'm fine with, but I'm sure I've never gone into a thread and attacked someone or group for being synthesis or control.
Lay the blame on me. I was the **** here today. I find it rude that others can come in here and mock us when we're working with evidence we find in game. I have also looked for evidence to support control and synthesis but can only find a scrap here a scrap there vs the whole mountain I have to support destroy.
I'm done now. Time to move on.
#47069
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:07
estebanus
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Ergh, you're right. I have become a bit of an ass. I'm sorry.Dwailing wrote...
Alright, you know what? I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS! Estebanus, you've become a real jerk (And several other words I won't use) since you became a Literalist. And Batman, Megumi and estebanus DO have a point. To say that all people who don't accept our position are completely close-minded is, in fact, rather close-minded. And Megumi, there's a difference between not contributing anything to the conversation and actually detracting from it. Spotless if doing the former, estebanus is doing the latter. Now, unless you're all willing to calm down and accept that ALL of you are wrong in some way (Including myself, about certain things, most likely.), I'm DONE! Out of here. I have better things to do than watch this group tear itself apart with petty, pointless squabbling.
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
Now, how about everyone here just calm down? Arguing brings us nothing at this point.
#47070
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:08
MegumiAzusa
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New people, people not thinking about what they use to "prove" IT and the discussions resulting from it which no one willing to give an inch.Dwailing wrote...
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
#47071
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:08
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spotlessvoid wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Yeah yeah, whatever. I don't see you do much else than say how you want the ending to be, and how right everybody is about everything.spotlessvoid wrote...
The roles have certainly NOT been reversed. You can accuse people of stooping to that level, but I've only met a few literalist who could engage in rational honest discussion. Where are you Epyon!?
And Estebanus, you have been spewing nothing but negativity and contribute nothing.
Lol, sure thing buddy. A lot more people see you for who you are than you think. Watching you self destruct is hilarious.
Agreed. I won't get into it beyond that though, as I want to keep my good mood up today.
EDIT: Except for the hilarious part.
Modifié par SwobyJ, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:10 .
#47072
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:09
estebanus
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Oh come on, it's not only the ITers' fault. Thare have been many literalists coming in to insult people.MegumiAzusa wrote...
New people, people not thinking about what they use to "prove" IT and the discussions resulting from it which no one willing to give an inch.Dwailing wrote...
Edit: Oh, and one. Last. Thing. This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness. WHAT HAPPENED?!
#47073
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:10
spotlessvoid
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estebanus wrote...
If you don't care, then why bring it up?spotlessvoid wrote...
That's not how most people took it, and it's still makes the whole thread look like it's filled with psychos. Not buying. Don't care.
Don't care about your excuses. It's coming, all in due time.
#47075
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 15 novembre 2012 - 08:12
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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Davik Kang wrote...
Guys guys cmon stop the bickering. Megumi and Estebanus are making fair points. There's a history of animosity which is clouding the issue.
Many people on these forums are close-minded, arrogant and unpleasant. They attack anything and everything, and it makes a lot of people, not just ITers, naturally defensive.
This means that when someone comes into a thread with an opposite view, it can often seem intentionally hostile. And sometimes it is. But not always.
Starlite was making a whole bunch of points at once. Many of them were about Destroy and foreshadowing. Maybe the post went a bit far in attacking people who don't like IT. There are a lot of people who use garbage logic and circular arguments to try to belittle those who put effort in to try to understand the ending.
But there are others who just disagree, There are also some who may not be that bright, but they don't deserve to be trashed and criticised. If I go see a film and I don't get it, that doesn't make me an idiot who needs to be put in my place. Otherwise everyone would be an idiot except those who understood every film or book or story. And I doubt such a person exists.
Imo, Starlite was making a good point but went a bit far. I don't support bashing people just because you think they're not as clever as you. In fact I abhore it. I think the hypocrisy came by accident, because it was a response to the real problem.
Imo, the real problem is the people who just love to hate without reason. Not synthesis people, not people who didn't like the ending, not people who didn't understand it. It's the people who come online just to mock people who don't agree with them.
Problems arise when we generalise people who don't disagree with us, because then we become that kind of person. If you generalise anti-enders, synthesists, non-ITers, etc. you will end up offending people and pissing people off that just don't deserve it.
In short - everyone in here is making some effort to understand the ending. There are no unreasonable people regularly posting in this thread. There's a bad feeling that permeates BSN but I hope we can avoid taking it out on each other.
Thanks for this. The biggest thing that gets to me is the negativity and passive-agressiveness that can fill this thread, when my mind just goes "Ahhh! I just want to talk about all the details, whether they lead to correct conclusions or not! Let's talk!".
