80611 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

I just noticed that this thread has almost lasted longer than the other two IT threads combined. That's kinda impressive, isn't it?

[estebanus]

spotlessvoid wrote...

estebanus wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

That's not how most people took it, and it's still makes the whole thread look like it's filled with psychos. Not buying. Don't care.

If you don't care, then why bring it up?

Don't care about your excuses. It's coming, all in due time.

Let's just stop, okay? We're really getting nowhere.

[BatmanTurian]

While I disagree with starlite's habit of being excoriating (rif does the same thing) I agree that intelligent people follow threads of logic. I don't think people who choose Synthesis or Control are unintelligent, but misguided or delusional, attaching themselves to illogical, emotion-based belief systems.

I was attacked for this belief and defended myself. In the end, you can say what you like about me. I've been more than fair in this thread and as polite as I can be under the circumstances. My past behavior speaks for itself. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Davik Kang]

SwobyJ wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

Guys guys cmon stop the bickering. Megumi and Estebanus are making fair points. There's a history of animosity which is clouding the issue.

Many people on these forums are close-minded, arrogant and unpleasant. They attack anything and everything, and it makes a lot of people, not just ITers, naturally defensive.

This means that when someone comes into a thread with an opposite view, it can often seem intentionally hostile. And sometimes it is. But not always.

Starlite was making a whole bunch of points at once. Many of them were about Destroy and foreshadowing. Maybe the post went a bit far in attacking people who don't like IT. There are a lot of people who use garbage logic and circular arguments to try to belittle those who put effort in to try to understand the ending.

But there are others who just disagree, There are also some who may not be that bright, but they don't deserve to be trashed and criticised. If I go see a film and I don't get it, that doesn't make me an idiot who needs to be put in my place. Otherwise everyone would be an idiot except those who understood every film or book or story. And I doubt such a person exists.

Imo, Starlite was making a good point but went a bit far. I don't support bashing people just because you think they're not as clever as you. In fact I abhore it. I think the hypocrisy came by accident, because it was a response to the real problem.

Imo, the real problem is the people who just love to hate without reason. Not synthesis people, not people who didn't like the ending, not people who didn't understand it. It's the people who come online just to mock people who don't agree with them.

Problems arise when we generalise people who don't disagree with us, because then we become that kind of person. If you generalise anti-enders, synthesists, non-ITers, etc. you will end up offending people and pissing people off that just don't deserve it.

In short - everyone in here is making some effort to understand the ending. There are no unreasonable people regularly posting in this thread. There's a bad feeling that permeates BSN but I hope we can avoid taking it out on each other.

Thanks for this. The biggest thing that gets to me is the negativity and passive-agressiveness that can fill this thread, when my mind just goes "Ahhh! I just want to talk about all the details, whether they lead to correct conclusions or not! Let's talk!".

Negativity and passive-aggressiveness consume the BSN ME3 Story Discussion forum.  This is pretty much the only thread that is not so consumed.  It's inevitable that it will get infilitrated every now and then.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

I just noticed that this thread has almost lasted longer than the other two IT threads combined. That's kinda impressive, isn't it?

We still have a long way to page 2286. And if you are referring to the time it took us to get to page 1884, it's not really impressive if it took longer cause that would mean we contributed at a lower rate.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[Humakt83]

SwobyJ wrote...

Thanks for this. The biggest thing that gets to me is the negativity and passive-agressiveness that can fill this thread, when my mind just goes "Ahhh! I just want to talk about all the details, whether they lead to correct conclusions or not! Let's talk!".

Possibly because so many people here are ending haters?

[estebanus]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I just noticed that this thread has almost lasted longer than the other two IT threads combined. That's kinda impressive, isn't it?

We still have a long way to page 2286. And if you are referring to the time it took us to get to page 1884, it's not really impressive if it took longer cause that would mean we contributed at a lower rate.

I suppose you're right. I was especially referring to the fact that it hasn't been locked down yet.

[MegumiAzusa]

demersel wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Edit: Oh, and one.  Last.  Thing.  This thread used to stand as a bastion of friendship, trust, openness, and politeness.  WHAT HAPPENED?!

Lack of new data.

I loled. Read the books or comics or play the games again with everything while keeping an eye out and then come again.

[Davik Kang]

Humakt83 wrote...
Possibly because so many people here are ending haters?

I don't even mind ending haters when they make their points fairly.  What kills me is the obsessive guys who come on BSN every day just to trash Bioware, the writing, and people who like the ending.  I can't see any reason why they do this other than to make other people feel bad.  

I simply cannot understand this kind of person.  I would be fascinated to meet some of them in real life.  What's sad is some of them probably have pretty great lives too.  Cos they got no problem with doing stuff at the expense of other people.

[KyreneZA]

Arguing amongst ourselves? How refreshing!

Perhaps I should PM Xil? Haven't seen him/her/it around this thread in a while, and it seems we could do with the distraction. Common enemy and all that, what.

[Dwailing]

OK, now that things have calmed down a bit, I think I might be able to come back. Now, can we all just find something fun to talk about? How about that ending? It was all deep and stuff. Any thoughts?

[MegumiAzusa]

SwobyJ wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

starlitegirlx wrote...

Actually though, Gerrel, while his actions are ruthless is a perfect example of destroy and maybe where destroy within the hallucination comes into play. Until now, I hadn't really seen an example of destroy in the game that caused casualties and an ethical dilemma as it is presented in IT destroy option. But there it is. It represents the ruthless calculus of war. It represents destroy as the best option because despite that shepard and crew are on that ship, it HAD to be destroyed. I doubt anyone thinks otherwise. We're just sided against it because gerrel didn't care that shepard and crew were on it. But his choice foreshadows destroy as the only option. Had he not destroyed that ship, it would have led to the destruction of the quarians being the monster it was. And yet, most of us hate what gerrel did, which is quite interesting since it had to be done.

Gerrel's actions are foreshadowing destroy perfectly. A horrible decision one has to make but clearly the right one. There will be casualties. We've got that ruthless calculus of war issue again, but those few dead are symbolic of aiding the fleet toward saving it, however, there were several more missions to complete before saving it (the server, saving koris, and final rannoch mission). Now, I'm wondering if this foreshadowing (which to my recollection is the ONLY foreshadowing we have of destroy option in action rather than just dialogue) is hinting toward there being more to complete the destroy option as in there is more to follow the destroy choice in the chamber. The chamber was like the dreadnaught. But there were other things that had to be done to complete the destruction. Taking out the dreadnaught did some damage just as choosing destroy in the chamber. But at that point on rannoch it was far from over and if you look at the symbology, the wrap up of it was the destruction of the reaper after some other missions. I wonder if, for those of us following the symbolism and foreshadowing - is rannoch how things will play out via future DLCs?

So what you're saying is that even symbolically, the (London+Conduit+Citadel+Crucible)/Dream is actually just the first part of the truly final act of ME3? Like how Geth Dreadnaught is the intro to the Quarian/Rannoch act?

I'm saying that I think because I believe Gerrel's actions foreshadow destroy and then that whole series of missions ends with a fleet killing a reaper, I suspect we may not have seen the last bit because no reaper was killed yet since we left rannoch but most especially since london. And it's interesting that it took a fleet to take  down that reaper on rannoch. But on earth, no reaper is taken down. No reaper is even attacked. It's all about getting to the crucible. So if we use the rannoch series of events, that final part where the reaper is killed has yet to happen. I'm wondering if that's going to come into play in DLC at some point.

So I guess, yes, it's what I think is the first part of the final act IF my suspicions are correct.

Actually I believe in the high EMS FMVs, at least one Reaper is blown apart in space over Earth.

However, yeah, we only really kill the Hades Cannon and Destroyer (not any fully fledged Reapers) in London, excluding the possible dream sequences.

What about the fleets destroying Reapers here and there in the Sword intro?

[BatmanTurian]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, now that things have calmed down a bit, I think I might be able to come back. Now, can we all just find something fun to talk about? How about that ending? It was all deep and stuff. Any thoughts?

At this point, all we can talk about is the story-based foreshadowing and metaphors. There is very, very little of the ending that hasn't been dissected to death.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, now that things have calmed down a bit, I think I might be able to come back. Now, can we all just find something fun to talk about? How about that ending? It was all deep and stuff. Any thoughts?

The ending seemed kinda off to me, personally. It was as if  I was kinda playing through a dream sequence...

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

While I disagree with starlite's habit of being excoriating (rif does the same thing) I agree that intelligent people follow threads of logic. I don't think people who choose Synthesis or Control are unintelligent, but misguided or delusional, attaching themselves to illogical, emotion-based belief systems.

You basically say it is illogical to choose to rewrite Geth that may have been reprogrammed in the first place and may be an asset? If your answer is no what makes that choice different to the control/destroy decision in ME3? If yes what is your logical reasoning?

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[KyreneZA]

Dwailing wrote...

How about that ending?

Not sure about it still. It's either a work of absolute genius (but with the worst execution I've ever seen) or the work of a delusional pair of egotistical maniacs. Or simply a money raking scam.

Fortunately, I'm still enjoying MP and can therefore patiently wait for all SP DLCs to be released and then make up my mind.

[byne]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, now that things have calmed down a bit, I think I might be able to come back. Now, can we all just find something fun to talk about? How about that ending? It was all deep and stuff. Any thoughts?

The ending seemed kinda off to me, personally. It was as if  I was kinda playing through a dream sequence...

You should start a thread about that!

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

While I disagree with starlite's habit of being excoriating (rif does the same thing) I agree that intelligent people follow threads of logic. I don't think people who choose Synthesis or Control are unintelligent, but misguided or delusional, attaching themselves to illogical, emotion-based belief systems.

You basically say it is illogical to choose to rewrite Geth that may have been reprogrammed in the first place and may be an asset? If your answer is no what makes that choice different to the control/destroy decision in ME3? If yes what is your logical reasoning?

Sorry, I'm not going to let you bait me into an argument again. Try somebody who still respects you.

[MegumiAzusa]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

While I disagree with starlite's habit of being excoriating (rif does the same thing) I agree that intelligent people follow threads of logic. I don't think people who choose Synthesis or Control are unintelligent, but misguided or delusional, attaching themselves to illogical, emotion-based belief systems.

You basically say it is illogical to choose to rewrite Geth that may have been reprogrammed in the first place and may be an asset? If your answer is no what makes that choice different to the control/destroy decision in ME3? If yes what is your logical reasoning?

Sorry, I'm not going to let you bait me into an argument again. Try somebody who still respects you.

I believe that given the right circumstances at least control is a valid option, so you basically telling me I'm misguided or delusional. Then I gave you an example of a choice that is basically the same to establish a precedence with a question to elaborate, which means you basically baited me, you're telling me I'm baiting you? Way to go.

[spotlessvoid]

Control of the Reapers could be taken away from Shepard. Then what?

[BatmanTurian]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

While I disagree with starlite's habit of being excoriating (rif does the same thing) I agree that intelligent people follow threads of logic. I don't think people who choose Synthesis or Control are unintelligent, but misguided or delusional, attaching themselves to illogical, emotion-based belief systems.

You basically say it is illogical to choose to rewrite Geth that may have been reprogrammed in the first place and may be an asset? If your answer is no what makes that choice different to the control/destroy decision in ME3? If yes what is your logical reasoning?

Sorry, I'm not going to let you bait me into an argument again. Try somebody who still respects you.

I believe that given the right circumstances at least control is a valid option, so you basically telling me I'm misguided or delusional. Then I gave you an example of a choice that is basically the same to establish a precedence with a question to elaborate, which means you basically baited me, you're telling me I'm baiting you? Way to go.

No, it's just that with your behavior today towards me, I am reserving my right not to discuss anything with you and to let you know I have lost respect for you because of your behavior. Naturally, actions have consequences.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 novembre 2012 - 08:42 .

[byne]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control of the Reapers could be taken away from Shepard. Then what?

At no point does Shepard even control the Reapers. An AI copy of Shepard does.