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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark III!


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#4701
Guest_starlitegirlx_*

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Dwailing wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

How are things, o thread?

I thought, since Leviathan should be coming out soon, I would bring up the topic of the Thorian again. Hopefully many of you have noticed the similarities between the Reapers and the Thorian from ME1:

Reapers: | Thorian:
_____________________|________________________
Indoctrination | Mind control spores
Harvest/corrupt species | Absorb/replicate species
Sentient synthetic/organic hybrid | Sentient organic
Ancient/Older than we can fathom | Ancient/At least older than the Protheans (100,000+)
Cephalopodic anatomy | Arguably cephalopodic anatomy
Hibernates for thousands of years | Can hibernate for thousands of years

(I apologize for the unorthodox format, but I was feeling creative)

Those are the relevant comparisons off the top of my head. Feel free to add more.

From the Leviathan leaks, I believe we learn there is reason to believe that the Reapers failed to exterminate all of their creators. Their creators, very likely, would have gone into hiding and become scattered. The predicament we find the Thorian in seems to be rather degrading for a creature of its stature. Maybe it was hiding. Who knows?

Does anyone think there is a chance we will find out the Reapers and Thorian are related in some way? I think it would be awesome, and I believe there is sufficient evidence to at least speculate about it. They seem to be similar, yet opposing, forces. They have a strong influence among organics around them. They both take advantage of the genetic makeup of organics, as well. The means, however, that they use to utilize organics are very different.

The Reapers lie to their servants and skew their reality. The Thorian chastises its servants in order to train them. The Reapers harvest and violate organic species by turning them into monstrous abominations as well as material to replicate themselves out of. The Thorian takes a specimen and replicates its DNA by cloning it, without harming the specimen (unless you hate the color green).

It seems like they both are driven to control and utilize organics. However, the Reapers permanently damage them in order to use them as resources, while the Thorian absorbs their essence without inflicting significant harm.

Thoughts, anyone? :)


It would be awesome if the Thorians turned out to be the Reapers' creators.  That would show Star-Brat when he says we wouldn't know them. ;)  Also, apparently, the type of indoctrination used by Leviathan is different from what most Reapers use.


This is fascinating. I never considered it though I can't particularly imagine a thorian creating anything based on how it just sort of sat there and what it did create was crazy zombie like weird things. However, I could see there being a connection between the thorian if it were old enough and another race that studied it as well. Perhaps meant the reapers to be a form of VI that indoctrinated in a certain way to win wars or something for them. Or to create slaves to do their work. Any of a multitude of things, but the reapers became to smart just as the geth and perhaps their logical (illogical conclusion to us) was that this cycle must be done. The illogicalness of it could be based in their creators logic. Don't kill your enemy. harvest and use it as a slave or a warrior or something that is yours now and on your side rather than not. Clearly the civilization was advanced rather far along because despite how intellegent the reapers are, how far could they go entirely on their own beyond absorbing more and more information from each race they indoctrinated.

There are so many questions that really could have been answered along the way about the reapers and their creators. Maybe they were designed as ships that also worked as weapons in a variety of ways all of which we've seen. Having the huge reaper knowledge hole is big to me as I ponder it. We really know so little about this enemy and generally you learn something about your enemy somewhere in the story. But this one being so old made it easier to blow off that information because how would you get any information about it at all. Best we can do here is speculate. I doubt we'd get any answers though it would be nice. I don't imagine most players would bother unless it was great DLC because seems they only care to play and not learn. Kill and not look beyond the presented front.

#4702
Simon_Says

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So I'm back, again, and stuff I would have wanted to reply to was discussed, again.

estebanus wrote...

I'm saying that Bioware never used nor will use the IT. I am, by definition, a literalist.

Then what the hell am I?!

#4703
masster blaster

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So do you think that Anderson will be alive once Shepard wakes up, or do you think Anderson is dead, or Anderson is dying, and Shepard is trying to tell Anderson he is going to make it.

#4704
paxxton

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masster blaster wrote...

So do you think that Anderson will be alive once Shepard wakes up, or do you think Anderson is dead, or Anderson is dying, and Shepard is trying to tell Anderson he is going to make it.

Maybe Anderson is being indoctrinated with Shepard and that's why he appears at the Citadel. That would suggest the killing bullet really kills him (the body cannot live without the mind).

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 09:53 .


#4705
Simon_Says

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paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So do you think that Anderson will be alive once Shepard wakes up, or do you think Anderson is dead, or Anderson is dying, and Shepard is trying to tell Anderson he is going to make it.

Maybe Anderson is being indoctrinated with Shepard and that's why he appears at the Citadel. That would suggest the killing bullet really kills him (the body cannot live without the mind).

I suggested as much when involving pseudo-overlay theory. The control panel walk is Shepard walking away from the beam, uphill, meeting Anderson along the way. The only problem is that it makes Anderson's dialogue about following Shepard even weirder.

#4706
estebanus

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The thread for "Project Verum" has been opened. If anyone wants to help the project in succeding, you should probably check it out.

Link: http://social.biowar...87#post_2641587

Modifié par estebanus, 04 août 2012 - 09:57 .


#4707
paxxton

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Simon_Says wrote...

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So do you think that Anderson will be alive once Shepard wakes up, or do you think Anderson is dead, or Anderson is dying, and Shepard is trying to tell Anderson he is going to make it.

Maybe Anderson is being indoctrinated with Shepard and that's why he appears at the Citadel. That would suggest the killing bullet really kills him (the body cannot live without the mind).

I suggested as much when involving pseudo-overlay theory. The control panel walk is Shepard walking away from the beam, uphill, meeting Anderson along the way. The only problem is that it makes Anderson's dialogue about following Shepard even weirder.

I read otter's theory but I didn't really get what was its point. Could you give me a quick recap?

#4708
Simon_Says

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"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."

#4709
Simon_Says

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paxxton wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So do you think that Anderson will be alive once Shepard wakes up, or do you think Anderson is dead, or Anderson is dying, and Shepard is trying to tell Anderson he is going to make it.

Maybe Anderson is being indoctrinated with Shepard and that's why he appears at the Citadel. That would suggest the killing bullet really kills him (the body cannot live without the mind).

I suggested as much when involving pseudo-overlay theory. The control panel walk is Shepard walking away from the beam, uphill, meeting Anderson along the way. The only problem is that it makes Anderson's dialogue about following Shepard even weirder.

I read otter's theory but I didn't really get what was its point. Could you give me a quick recap?

Well the basic idea I got from it is that the reapers are 'overlaying' Shepard's perception of reality, similar to what happens during the end sequence of Project Overlord. Shepard's actually shuffling about in front of the beam structure during the end of ME3.

#4710
masster blaster

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Simon_Says wrote...

"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."


What?

#4711
estebanus

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Simon_Says wrote...

"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."

Why? It allows IT supporters to have their own ending. Is that truly so terrible?

#4712
Arashi08

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sorry to get off topic a little but since you were talking about an IT ending made in the style of KS...
 
I have heard of it but I've never played it, but it sounds like the Persona series a little bit, or am I way off?

EDITED because my grammar sucks due to being tired Posted Image

Modifié par Arashi08, 04 août 2012 - 10:22 .


#4713
Simon_Says

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estebanus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."

Why? It allows IT supporters to have their own ending. Is that truly so terrible?

I'm not saying it's terrible. It's just that it's crazy. And zealous. Really zealous.

You're gonna sit on a powderkeg.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 04 août 2012 - 10:28 .


#4714
estebanus

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Simon_Says wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."

Why? It allows IT supporters to have their own ending. Is that truly so terrible?

I'm not saying it's terrible. It's just that it's crazy. And zealous. Really zealous.

Zealous in what way? Bioware more or less said "make your own ending." We want to do this. How is it zealous to do what Bioware told us to do?

#4715
masster blaster

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estebanus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

"Oh dear. Masster Blaster has been a bad influence."

Why? It allows IT supporters to have their own ending. Is that truly so terrible?

I'm not saying it's terrible. It's just that it's crazy. And zealous. Really zealous.

Zealous in what way? Bioware more or less said "make your own ending." We want to do this. How is it zealous to do what Bioware told us to do?


And this is just in case, well....Let's not give up IT being ture just yet.

#4716
FreddyCast

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So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?

#4717
byne

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FreddyCast wrote...

So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?


Estebanus gave up hope on IT and decided to make his own ending, with blackjack! And hookers!

#4718
masster blaster

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FreddyCast wrote...

So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?


Chris telling people that the endings are as they are, but we know that from the beggining, yet we are on high alert. But I don't know if this is the cause. To me the post was the same post we laways get from Bioware.

#4719
CoolioThane

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FFs don't make your own ending, just wait.

#4720
estebanus

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byne wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?


Estebanus gave up hope on IT and decided to make his own ending, with blackjack! And hookers!

No, that's a last resort if IT indeed is wrong. I don't want to start it until all DLC is done or they outright say IT is wrong.

#4721
FreddyCast

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byne wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?


Estebanus gave up hope on IT and decided to make his own ending, with blackjack! And hookers!

NOOOOOOO!!!Posted Image
Come back to us Bender......uuuh, I mean Estebanus.
ONE OF US
ONE OF US
ONE OF US
Oh crap, not helpingPosted Image

#4722
Nessingwary

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FellishBeast wrote...

How are things, o thread?

I thought, since Leviathan should be coming out soon, I would bring up the topic of the Thorian again. Hopefully many of you have noticed the similarities between the Reapers and the Thorian from ME1:

                                         Reapers: | Thorian:
               _____________________|________________________
                                 Indoctrination | Spores
                  Harvest/corrupt species | Absorb/replicate species
  Sentient synthetic/organic hybrid | Sentient organic
Ancient/Older than we can fathom | Ancient/At least older than the Protheans (100,000+)
                   Cephalopodic anatomy | Arguably cephalopodic anatomy
 Hibernates for thousands of years | Can hibernate for thousands of years

(I apologize for the unorthodox format, but I was feeling creative)

Those are the relevant comparisons off the top of my head. Feel free to add more.

From the Leviathan leaks, I believe we learn there is reason to believe that the Reapers failed to exterminate all of their creators. Their creators, very likely, would have gone into hiding and become scattered. The predicament we find the Thorian in seems to be rather degrading for a creature of its stature. Maybe it was hiding. Who knows?

Does anyone think there is a chance we will find out the Reapers and Thorian are related in some way? I think it would be awesome, and I believe there is sufficient evidence to at least speculate about it. They seem to be similar, yet opposing, forces. They have a strong influence among organics around them. They both take advantage of the genetic makeup of organics, as well. The means, however, that they use to utilize organics are very different.

The Reapers lie to their servants and skew their reality. The Thorian chastises its servants in order to train them. The Reapers harvest and violate organic species by turning them into monstrous abominations as well as material to replicate themselves out of. The Thorian takes a specimen and replicates its DNA by cloning it, without harming the specimen (unless you hate the color green).

It seems like they both are driven to control and utilize organics. However, the Reapers permanently damage them in order to use them as resources, while the Thorian absorbs their essence without inflicting significant harm.

Thoughts, anyone? :)


My thought is that the reapers used the thorian species as a template to further evolve themselves or at least use as a tool much like they used Protheans' template to become the Collectors.. asari for banshees.. turians/krogans for brutes, etc etc.

As complex an organism as the thorian is, I can't imagine what sort of "civilization" it could develop that the reapers would feel compelled to harvest. The fact that it seemed neccessary for it to hiberate and go into hiding indicates that the reapers were culling the thorians.. very likely for the sole purpose to use their biology. It may even have had a role in helping the reapers develop indoctrination technology.

#4723
DoomsdayDevice

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Why is everyone suddenly losing faith in IT?

Because of what Priestly said? That there will be no more ending DLC?

We have known that for ages, nothing has changed. I've always said they'll forever leave it ambiguous.

Why do people need conformation? It's bloody obvious, as is. The literal interpretation still makes no sense.

What, Shepard was wrong, and TIM/Saren were right all along? That's the point of the story?

Haha.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 août 2012 - 10:46 .


#4724
estebanus

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Well, it's getting late, so I'll be going to bed now. Goodnight.

#4725
byne

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estebanus wrote...

Well, it's getting late, so I'll be going to bed now. Goodnight.


Night