80611 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

xAmilli0n wrote...
1. Though BW has said they will not change the ending, I know you hold out hope. If it were to happen, and IT is taken as canon by BW, where does that leave Shep and the rest of the galaxy? Shep wakes up in rubble, the Reapers are still here, and the Crucible has not been used. How do we win?

As others have said, the endings don't need to be changed in IT's perspective.  In fact, as far as IT goes, they shouldn't be - that would defeat the entire purpose of how the endings were structured in the first place..  It's up to us to make sense of what we've been given, not for Bioware to spell things out.

As to where we go from here, how we win... well, we already know we'll be seeing more DLC - it may not change the endings, but it may change the context they're perceived in.  And then of course there's ME4...

2. Does IT take into account the Leviathans when it comes to the Reaper origin? I too would like to see the old Reapers back, but I don't see how they could be reconciled.

The Leviathan DLC was a goldmine for IT, really.  Think about it - the conversation with the Leviathan takes place entirely in Shepard's mind.  The Leviathan use avatars to communicate with Shepard - avatars drawn from Shepard's experiences and memories.  And they talk about enthrallment, and indoctrination, and how the Reapers perfected it.

The entire conversation with the Leviathan is eerily reminiscent of the Catalyst conversation.

And again, the open ended question: What does it do for you? I personally like the open ended Control ending that can go well, or horribly wrong. I find both possibilities fascinating. What does IT do for you?

It confirms certain things we've been told and Bioware have hinted at - that there's more to the story than meets the eye, that the endigns should not be taken at face value, that they were meant to be discussed and speculated upon.  It gives me hope - that there's more of the story to come, that we haven't seen everything yet, that Bioware still have some pretty huge tricks up their sleeve.  And it leaves me satisfied, in that I have to think about the game, what we've been told, what we've experienced, what we know about the enemy etc in order to interpret the endings, and figure out what's actually going on.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 16 novembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[demersel]

 So, lett's see - here are the links to ME3 trailers from the official website. 



masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/ea6d034495ecabd4a571ccb694f9d7cb
masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/81eb8d11836e25109a1a80bab2ce8870
masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/e05d0c241f8e7e21f6deb9f0c61e0feb 

Even MP DLC trailers have this:
masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/a4efc3f9f86aebe61718ac8acdd4cecd
masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/183453d54a576a783502f827445c899b

Almost every ME3 video have this - the sparks in the light - when they show text "Now availible" or "Coming (incert date)".

And it Started in the trailer for Arrival. 
Look -
masseffect.bioware.com/me2/media/video/456/

These sparks look very much like the ones in this picture. 


Edit: Those are the same sparks, that yoo can see even in the ending cinematic, (like in the scene with two soldiers from the EC) - Even in the Magnetiite's control video shows them at 2.25 - that is why i think they are the sparks of fires on earth. 

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 05:38 .

[Davik Kang]

xAmilli0n wrote...

@Davik Kang. Thanks for the replay. Interesting, though I do understand that IT is not an 'ending' it is difficult to bring up without comparing to the 4 main endings. As for IT being used as an explanation of events, I can understand that, as well how everyone may have a different interpretation.

Yeah you're right, it does completely influence the endings so is directly related to them.  Most IT variants say the endings we see did not happen at all, but are more projections in Shepard's mind of what he thinks might have happened.

xAmilli0n wrote...
Here is another question: Does IT leave you satisfied? When Shepard wakes up in the rubble, breaking indoctrination (I believe this is common to all interpretation), what do you expect? I for one am okay with bad and bittersweet ending (again, why I am okay with Control) but what are your expectation? Do we win? Do we lose? Do you leave it as it, open to interpretation (but IT still confirmed)?

Thanks for the replies all, I appreciate it.

There are many players who find the endings massively unsatisfying, and who like IT because it does provide an ending more in keeping with how they understood the saga, and more consistent with the general character traits displayed by Shepard.

Personally, it doesn't work this way, because I found the ending immensely satisfying.  But that has a lot to do with the fact that I spent a good deal of time thinking about what the Child said (I always spend ages in these games, even with some trivial decisions) and decided before I made the choice that the Kid was trying to indoctrinate me.  I wasn't certain of anything, but I had to choose between a number of horrible pathways, and the forst thing I figured was that two of the options involved raising Shepard up to a status beyond what any individual should have imo.  Con and Syn seemed dangerously close to being a galactic dictator and playing god respectively.  So I was drawn to Destroy; and then it occured to me that the Child was representing the things that Shepard had been fighting against all the time, and what with the whole Indoctrination conversation with TIM only moments ago, this second 'revalation' if you like convinced me to go with Destroy ahead of the others.

In short - this was only my personal feeling, and I could never know whether I did the right thing.  I hoped that I had made the right choice, and my disdain for the other choices (being egomaniacal in my view) helped me make that choice.  I may have been wrong, and maybe I threw away the chance to do something amazing for the galaxy, but just going with the standard Soldier response of (Shoot first, ask questions later).  

But nonetheless this is pretty much exactly the kind of ending I'd wanted from a videogame - one which summed up the way I'd played the whole of the trilogy in fact - and so I found it really awesome.  And the more I thought about it after I'd finished it, the more awesome it seemed.  So I guess the ending had an opposite effect for me that for a lot of players.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Hello ITers, I come in peace. After reading a few other threads, I'm curious. What do you get out of IT? Why is this the main interpretation decided on? What makes you like IT?

I'm looking for the positives of IT, not the negatives of the 4 main endings (ie "the other endings suck" is not a legitimate answer lol). Thanks!

ElSuperGecko essentially said what I had on my mind. As opposed to the literal ending, IT gives hope of more to come and praises the fans that have paid careful attention to the overall story, Shepard, and the lore thus far. No invalidations, no space magic, and no forgetting the individuality of the galaxy.

[DoomsdayDevice]

xAmilli0n wrote...

As a note, I have to go, but I will be back to reply to comments and ask more questions, thanks!

I added some things to my reply. It's all the way on the bottom of the previous page, 1894.

[BatmanTurian]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

2. Does IT take into account the Leviathans when it comes to the Reaper origin? I too would like to see the old Reapers back, but I don't see how they could be reconciled.

The Leviathan DLC was a goldmine for IT, really.  Think about it - the conversation with the Leviathan takes place entirely in Shepard's mind.  The Leviathan use avatars to communicate with Shepard - avatars drawn from Shepard's experiences and memories.  And they talk about enthrallment, and indoctrination, and how the Reapers perfected it.

The entire conversation with the Leviathan is eerily reminiscent of the Catalyst conversation.

Don't forget the prime revelation that Harbinger is made of Leviathans (which makes him an extra-special Reaper who is able to use enthrallment more effectively than other Reapers). And lo and behold, who is there at the end right before the beam sequence? Harbinger. I rest my case.

[Davik Kang]

BatmanTurian wrote...
Don't forget the prime revelation that Harbinger is made of Leviathans (which makes him an extra-special Reaper who is able to use enthrallment more effectively than other Reapers). And lo and behold, who is there at the end right before the beam sequence? Harbinger. I rest my case.

I wonder if Harbinger was able to control the Collectors from such an extreme distance thanks to some kind of artifact-style object?  Having been around the longest, it might be the case that his indoctrination methods were the most refined.

[BatmanTurian]

Davik Kang wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
Don't forget the prime revelation that Harbinger is made of Leviathans (which makes him an extra-special Reaper who is able to use enthrallment more effectively than other Reapers). And lo and behold, who is there at the end right before the beam sequence? Harbinger. I rest my case.

I wonder if Harbinger was able to control the Collectors from such an extreme distance thanks to some kind of artifact-style object?  Having been around the longest, it might be the case that his indoctrination methods were the most refined.

Yes, I think that's precisely why. Also, I think the collectors are prothean-rachni hybrids, so that harbinger can enthrall the general (who is a mutated queen rachni) and use the hivemind to control the collectors.

[Rifneno]

Davik Kang wrote...

I agree with DD, principally because a vote for ME3 is really a vote for the whole trilogy. Similar to what DD says, I think the ending is a milestone in videgaming history. It is a truly brilliant way to tie the whole series together, using the 'choice' mechanic as a final boss, simultaneously playing mind games with the audience, and giving them a chance to express themselves in terms of what they've learned in the series and what they consider the key values of the story, Shepard and themselves to be.

The ending makes the whole trilogy a deeply personal journey for each player. Imo it is a genuinely incredible achievement, and retrospectively makes the ME trilogy one of the most important achievements in gaming so far. I am 100% convinced that ME3 should win GOTY for that reason. I just hope those deciding at least see this argument, even if ultimately they don't agree with it.

I disagree, on pretty much all of it. This is only true if IT is true. And while very likely, it doesn't count without a true reveal. What we have right now is an ending so ****ty that news agencies like BBC and CNN considered the outrage news worthy.

As it's becoming increasingly obvious that we'll still be fighting the Reapers in ME4 and they told us half a decade ago that this was going to be a trilogy... well, I can't see how this is anything but milking the cash cow. I wonder when we're going to see the real end of this story. I have a bad feeling it won't be for quite a few games. If ever.

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

I agree with DD, principally because a vote for ME3 is really a vote for the whole trilogy. Similar to what DD says, I think the ending is a milestone in videgaming history. It is a truly brilliant way to tie the whole series together, using the 'choice' mechanic as a final boss, simultaneously playing mind games with the audience, and giving them a chance to express themselves in terms of what they've learned in the series and what they consider the key values of the story, Shepard and themselves to be.

The ending makes the whole trilogy a deeply personal journey for each player. Imo it is a genuinely incredible achievement, and retrospectively makes the ME trilogy one of the most important achievements in gaming so far. I am 100% convinced that ME3 should win GOTY for that reason. I just hope those deciding at least see this argument, even if ultimately they don't agree with it.

I disagree, on pretty much all of it. This is only true if IT is true. And while very likely, it doesn't count without a true reveal. What we have right now is an ending so ****ty that news agencies like BBC and CNN considered the outrage news worthy.

As it's becoming increasingly obvious that we'll still be fighting the Reapers in ME4 and they told us half a decade ago that this was going to be a trilogy... well, I can't see how this is anything but milking the cash cow. I wonder when we're going to see the real end of this story. I have a bad feeling it won't be for quite a few games. If ever.

The Protheans fought for centuries. I didn't expect the Reapers to go down easy when I heard Javik say that even if this cycle's situation is different.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Rifneno wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

I agree with DD, principally because a vote for ME3 is really a vote for the whole trilogy. Similar to what DD says, I think the ending is a milestone in videgaming history. It is a truly brilliant way to tie the whole series together, using the 'choice' mechanic as a final boss, simultaneously playing mind games with the audience, and giving them a chance to express themselves in terms of what they've learned in the series and what they consider the key values of the story, Shepard and themselves to be.

The ending makes the whole trilogy a deeply personal journey for each player. Imo it is a genuinely incredible achievement, and retrospectively makes the ME trilogy one of the most important achievements in gaming so far. I am 100% convinced that ME3 should win GOTY for that reason. I just hope those deciding at least see this argument, even if ultimately they don't agree with it.

I disagree, on pretty much all of it. This is only true if IT is true. And while very likely, it doesn't count without a true reveal. What we have right now is an ending so ****ty that news agencies like BBC and CNN considered the outrage news worthy.

But that seems like saying that IT isn't true without a reveal. Don't get me wrong, I would like a reveal, but I don't understand why people cannot accept it being true without word of god, so to speak.

The ending is brilliant. It is only stupid when interpreting it literally, IMO.

Rifneno wrote...

As it's becoming increasingly obvious that we'll still be fighting the Reapers in ME4 and they told us half a decade ago that this was going to be a trilogy...

Plans change. Simple as that. If I were a writer, and I could think of a way to flesh out the story in a way that is so much better than I first had in mind, I'd go for it, even if it meant there would be one more game than I planned. Shouldn't we be happy with more story? I know I am.

[BatmanTurian]

Yate's at it again lol

http://social.biowar...1622/1#14951622

why are people still talking about IT?

sure it was a cool idea at the time, but it's been confirmed false and the endings were fixed

shut up about it now

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:33 .

[Little Princess Peach]

I have a quick question about IT, you guys talk about the brainwashing and how shepard is Indocrinated and all but I've seen little posts about how It effects the human brain

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Yate's at it again lol

http://social.biowar...1622/1#14951622

why are people still talking about IT?

sure it was a cool idea at the time, but it's been confirmed false and the endings were fixed

shut up about it now

The indoctrination theory is false, cause Shepard is not indoctrinated! Catalyst himself says so! 

[demersel]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I have a quick question about IT, you guys talk about the brainwashing and how shepard is Indocrinated and all but I've seen little posts about how It effects the human brain

It s very bad for human brain - first you loose the RPG elements and comprehension of vast and open world. You start to lose any sense of going anywhere except the places are told to go, then the world start to seem like one giant corridor to you,  then you get less choices and conversation option,  you sieze to question things and just accept what everyone tells you and finally there comes autodialoge, and action mode. 

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[ThisOneIsPunny]

demersel wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I have a quick question about IT, you guys talk about the brainwashing and how shepard is Indocrinated and all but I've seen little posts about how It effects the human brain

It s very bad for human brain - first you loose the RPG elemints and comprehension of vast and open world, You start to lose any sense of going anywhere except the places are are told to go, then the world start to seem like one giant corridor to you,  then you get less choices and conversation option, and finally there comes autodialoge, and action mode. 

What you did there, I see it.

[Rifneno]

BatmanTurian wrote...

The Protheans fought for centuries. I didn't expect the Reapers to go down easy when I heard Javik say that even if this cycle's situation is different.

Vigil told us that all the way back in ME1.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

But that seems like saying that IT isn't true without a reveal. Don't get me wrong, I would like a reveal, but I don't understand why people cannot accept it being true without word of god, so to speak.

The ending is brilliant. It is only stupid when interpreting it literally, IMO.

IT isn't canon until they do a reveal. And the ending is utter trash until they do.

Plans change. Simple as that. If I were a writer, and I could think of a way to flesh out the story in a way that is so much better than I first had in mind, I'd go for it, even if it meant there would be one more game than I planned. Shouldn't we be happy with more story? I know I am.

Riiiiiight. "Fleshing out the story". I'm sure the money had nothing to do with it. Just a happy coincidence.

[demersel]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

What you did there, I see it.

And what did I do? as far as i'm concerned I've just explained every single game design choice between ME1 and ME3 and their evolution as an evidence of Shepard's struggle against indoctrination.  

[ThisOneIsPunny]

demersel wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

What you did there, I see it.

And what did I do? as far as i'm concerned I've just explained every single game design choice between ME1 and ME3 and their evolution as an evidence of Shepard's struggle against indoctrination.  

Yes, yes you did.

[BatmanTurian]

Rifneno wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The Protheans fought for centuries. I didn't expect the Reapers to go down easy when I heard Javik say that even if this cycle's situation is different.

Vigil told us that all the way back in ME1.

My bad. I didn't get enough sleep last night. I think Javik said something like it- " system by system, planet by planet, city by city. "

[Little Princess Peach]

demersel wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I have a quick question about IT, you guys talk about the brainwashing and how shepard is Indocrinated and all but I've seen little posts about how It effects the human brain

It s very bad for human brain - first you loose the RPG elements and comprehension of vast and open world. You start to lose any sense of going anywhere except the places are told to go, then the world start to seem like one giant corridor to you,  then you get less choices and conversation option,  you sieze to question things and just accept what everyone tells you and finally there comes autodialoge, and action mode. 

I was not joking around what of the sciency bits of IT, you guys don't seem to be intrested in that aspect ot it

[demersel]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I was not joking around what of the sciency bits of IT, you guys don't seem to be intrested in that aspect ot it

I was dead serious 


I'll Reiterate - as far as we know, it affects human brain irreversably. 
Degrades cognitive functions. 

Edit - Oh, and there will be no cake. Cake is a lie.

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[BatmanTurian]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

demersel wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I have a quick question about IT, you guys talk about the brainwashing and how shepard is Indocrinated and all but I've seen little posts about how It effects the human brain

It s very bad for human brain - first you loose the RPG elements and comprehension of vast and open world. You start to lose any sense of going anywhere except the places are told to go, then the world start to seem like one giant corridor to you,  then you get less choices and conversation option,  you sieze to question things and just accept what everyone tells you and finally there comes autodialoge, and action mode. 

I was not joking around what of the sciency bits of IT, you guys don't seem to be intrested in that aspect ot it

We are interested. It breaks down the human mind. Indoctrination can be the result of propaganda and abuse, but infrasonic and ultrasonic waves can also affect the mind. Sleep deprivation, unconciousness, and anything that makes a person less stable makes it easier to infect the subject. See Room 101 in 1984 for the good old-fashioned form of indoctrination. The Reapers use advanced technology and psychology to magnify the same effect.

[demersel]

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate