80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Humakt83]

Rifneno wrote...

Riiiiiight. "Fleshing out the story". I'm sure the money had nothing to do with it. Just a happy coincidence.

Of course it does. I definitely got my money's worth though so I'm not complaining.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate

We need to make a list! 

"Conspiracy Theory"!


Edit - Bioshock is a great example of gameplay implementation of indoctrination concept. 

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:19 .

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate

We need to make a list! 

"Conspiracy Theory"!


Edit - Bioshock is a great example of gameplay implementation of indoctrination concept. 

Really, biased media is the greatest indoctrinator that we all see every day.

[Dwailing]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate

We need to make a list! 

"Conspiracy Theory"!


Edit - Bioshock is a great example of gameplay implementation of indoctrination concept. 

Really, biased media is the greatest indoctrinator that we all see every day.

*Cough* Fox *Cough*  Anyway, we... oh screw it, talk about politics for all I care.  It's not like BioWare is going to come in here and stop us.

[BatmanTurian]

Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate

We need to make a list! 

"Conspiracy Theory"!


Edit - Bioshock is a great example of gameplay implementation of indoctrination concept. 

Really, biased media is the greatest indoctrinator that we all see every day.

*Cough* Fox *Cough*  Anyway, we... oh screw it, talk about politics for all I care.  It's not like BioWare is going to come in here and stop us.

It's not just Fox or conservative media. Any news source has a bias that creeps up, sometimes without those producing it really noticing. And I'm not just talking about politics, but culture, morals, beliefs, etc. Starlite has touched on this several times, but it never gained much traction.

[demersel]

About "Your memories give us voice" - there was this movie Existenze! - there was a concept when memories and motives of different persons involved in a collective illusion subconciously bleed into it in and are persistent. that may suggest that illusion is made out of all participants's memories and intents, and not just Shepard's - Harbanger's true motives, and thoughts might also be there, including those, that he wouldn't want to reveal. - like all relays blowing up, and galaxy separeted and isolated.
Same thing was in harry potter books - when somebody tries to take control of your mind and read your thoughts - if you resist enough you could actually get inside of that persons mind yourself - the channel works both ways.

[BatmanTurian]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Also, there is this movie called Clockwork Orange, you might have heard of it.

or The Manchurian Candidate

We need to make a list! 

"Conspiracy Theory"!


Edit - Bioshock is a great example of gameplay implementation of indoctrination concept. 

Really, biased media is the greatest indoctrinator that we all see every day.

*Cough* Fox *Cough*  Anyway, we... oh screw it, talk about politics for all I care.  It's not like BioWare is going to come in here and stop us.

It's not just Fox or conservative media. Any news source has a bias that creeps up, sometimes without those producing it really noticing. And I'm not just talking about politics, but culture, morals, beliefs, etc. Starlite has touched on this several times, but it never gained much traction.

Actually, if you want to get a really good modern example, modern North Korea's hardcore citizens are a great study in indoctrination at work over generations and decades. Not the kind in Mass Effect, mind you, but the same breaking down, then building back up. Our Armed Forces do the same thing in boot camp to clamp down on individuality and train servicemen to work as a team under extreme stress. I'd argue that's a more benevolent form.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Actually, if you want to get a really good modern example, modern North Korea's hardcore citizens are a great study in indoctrination at work over generations and decades. Not the kind in Mass Effect, mind you, but the same breaking down, then building back up. Our Armed Forces do the same thing in boot camp to clamp down on individuality and train servicemen to work as a team under extreme stress. I'd argue that's a more benevolent form.

Modern Russia is not that far behind in turms of indoctrination of populance by media. 

Have you read the book "Habited Island" by Strugatsky brothers? 

It turnes out that in english it is known as "Prisoners of Power"
I really recommend it.  
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_Power

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:35 .

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Actually, if you want to get a really good modern example, modern North Korea's hardcore citizens are a great study in indoctrination at work over generations and decades. Not the kind in Mass Effect, mind you, but the same breaking down, then building back up. Our Armed Forces do the same thing in boot camp to clamp down on individuality and train servicemen to work as a team under extreme stress. I'd argue that's a more benevolent form.

Modern Russia is not that far behind in turms of indoctrination of populance by media. 

Have you read the book "Habited Island" by Strugatsky brothers? 

No, I haven't. I'd heard Russia was still somewhat Authoritarian, but I didn't want to presume and insult our Russian friends like yourself and others I may not know of.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

No, I haven't. I'd heard Russia was still somewhat Authoritarian, but I didn't want to presume and insult our Russian friends like yourself and others I may not know of.

The difference between North Korea is that it has Dictators, indoctrinating people, over ideology. 
In Russian there is no ideology now, and government are not dictators - they are just a bunch of thieves and crooks, that want everyone dumb and silent. 

[spotlessvoid]

WW2 soldiers weren't degraded and broken down and they did just fine. The reason that's done today is to break down a soldiers resistance to taking immoral actions.

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

No, I haven't. I'd heard Russia was still somewhat Authoritarian, but I didn't want to presume and insult our Russian friends like yourself and others I may not know of.

The difference between North Korea is that it has Dictators, indoctrinating people, over ideology. 
In Russian there is no ideology now, and government are not dictators - they are just a bunch of thieves and crooks, that want everyone dumb and silent. 

So... actually not that different from America then. Different culture maybe, same corrupt government.

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

WW2 soldiers weren't degraded and broken down and they did just fine. The reason that's done today is to break down a soldiers resistance to taking immoral actions.

That's kind of what I was saying.

[demersel]

Read the plot summery of Prisoners of Power (it will totally spoil the book for you though).

[demersel]

No thoughts about sparks from wake up picture being in every ME3 trailer, then?

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

Read the plot summery of Prisoners of Power (it will totally spoil the book for you though).

Ah, a science-fiction novel from the Soviet Era praising communism and then showing mind control by aliens. A bit biased. Ah, what's this? Thinly-veiled satire? Now it makes sense.

[spotlessvoid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

WW2 soldiers weren't degraded and broken down and they did just fine. The reason that's done today is to break down a soldiers resistance to taking immoral actions.

That's kind of what I was saying.

Ah, sorry BT

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

WW2 soldiers weren't degraded and broken down and they did just fine. The reason that's done today is to break down a soldiers resistance to taking immoral actions.

That's kind of what I was saying.

Ah, sorry BT

NP.

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Read the plot summery of Prisoners of Power (it will totally spoil the book for you though).

Ah, a science-fiction novel from the Soviet Era praising communism and then showing mind control by aliens. A bit biased. Ah, what's this? Thinly-veiled satire? Now it makes sense.

Eh?? What the hell did you read to get that impression?? What aliens? What praising of communism??

just to clarify - to me, since i have read the book, you comment sounds a bit like someone coming in here and asking what are we still doing here, since the EC and Leviathan DLC clearly proved IT to be wrong. 

Modifié par demersel, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:54 .

[paxxton]

Do you remember that wallpaper BioWare released on the N7 Day? Who's that krogan in the pic by Zaeed?

[demersel]

paxxton wrote...

Do you remember that wallpaper BioWare released on the N7 Day? Who's that krogan in the pic by Zaeed?

...... Grunt ,duh?

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

demersel wrote...

Read the plot summery of Prisoners of Power (it will totally spoil the book for you though).

Ah, a science-fiction novel from the Soviet Era praising communism and then showing mind control by aliens. A bit biased. Ah, what's this? Thinly-veiled satire? Now it makes sense.

Eh?? What the hell did you read to get that impression?? What aliens? What praising of communism??

just to clarify - to me, since i have read the book, you comment sounds a bit like someone coming in here and asking what are we still doing here, since the EC and Leviathan DLC clearly proved IT to be wrong. 

I'm just kind of skimming it. I may have missed the details.
http://en.wikipedia....soners_of_Power

[demersel]

BatmanTurian wrote...
I'm just kind of skimming it. I may have missed the details.
http://en.wikipedia....soners_of_Power

Yeah, the details are really the important part. )) Priority: Earth mission reminded methis book a lot. 

[paxxton]

demersel wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Do you remember that wallpaper BioWare released on the N7 Day? Who's that krogan in the pic by Zaeed?

...... Grunt ,duh?

Right. How could I've not recognized Grunt?

Modifié par paxxton, 16 novembre 2012 - 08:04 .

[BatmanTurian]

demersel wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
I'm just kind of skimming it. I may have missed the details.
http://en.wikipedia....soners_of_Power

Yeah, the details are really the important part. )) Priority: Earth mission reminded methis book a lot. 

I can see why, reading deeper. It has some parallels.