80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Starbuck8]

FellishBeast wrote...

How are things, o thread?

I thought, since Leviathan should be coming out soon, I would bring up the topic of the Thorian again. Hopefully many of you have noticed the similarities between the Reapers and the Thorian from ME1:

                                         Reapers: | Thorian:
               _____________________|________________________
                                 Indoctrination | Spores
                  Harvest/corrupt species | Absorb/replicate species
  Sentient synthetic/organic hybrid | Sentient organic
Ancient/Older than we can fathom | Ancient/At least older than the Protheans (100,000+)
                   Cephalopodic anatomy | Arguably cephalopodic anatomy
 Hibernates for thousands of years | Can hibernate for thousands of years

(I apologize for the unorthodox format, but I was feeling creative)

Those are the relevant comparisons off the top of my head. Feel free to add more.

From the Leviathan leaks, I believe we learn there is reason to believe that the Reapers failed to exterminate all of their creators. Their creators, very likely, would have gone into hiding and become scattered. The predicament we find the Thorian in seems to be rather degrading for a creature of its stature. Maybe it was hiding. Who knows?

Does anyone think there is a chance we will find out the Reapers and Thorian are related in some way? I think it would be awesome, and I believe there is sufficient evidence to at least speculate about it. They seem to be similar, yet opposing, forces. They have a strong influence among organics around them. They both take advantage of the genetic makeup of organics, as well. The means, however, that they use to utilize organics are very different.

The Reapers lie to their servants and skew their reality. The Thorian chastises its servants in order to train them. The Reapers harvest and violate organic species by turning them into monstrous abominations as well as material to replicate themselves out of. The Thorian takes a specimen and replicates its DNA by cloning it, without harming the specimen (unless you hate the color green).

It seems like they both are driven to control and utilize organics. However, the Reapers permanently damage them in order to use them as resources, while the Thorian absorbs their essence without inflicting significant harm.

Thoughts, anyone?

I remember discussing this a long time ago with you, and the similarities are fascinating. If the connection was intended, it would make the plot line around the thorian in ME1 make a lot more sense for me. Especially the way the thorian got really pissed off after the Saren incident. I would have thought the thorian would listen to reason, especially when Shepard told it that s/he was going after Saren. It didn't feel right to me that the thorian, this ancient creature, just had to die. If the thorian was from the parent race of the reapers and it realized that Saren was working for the reapers, it would give the thorian much more reason to freak out and just completely distrust and try to kill anyone who tried talking to it. Also, I remember the thorian creepers were basically just like husks in ME1.

Also I think you had linked this during our original discussion: thorian/reaper comparison shots

Yay I love speculations!

[FFZero]

CoolioThane wrote...

FFs don't make your own ending, just wait.

We are waiting. Right now we’re kind of in the ‘what if’ frame of mind. Basically what if Bioware never deny or confirm IT and continue to say up until the end of the DLC cycle and beyond ‘You can make up your own ending’, well that’s what we’ll do, we’ll make an ending that can satisfy IT fans. If we ever make a start on this interactive graphic novel idea it will most likely be once the DLC is done and ME3 as we know it is finished.

[CoolioThane]

Post ending dlc...don't change endings.

[FreddyCast]

Nessingwary wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

How are things, o thread?

I thought, since Leviathan should be coming out soon, I would bring up the topic of the Thorian again. Hopefully many of you have noticed the similarities between the Reapers and the Thorian from ME1:

                                         Reapers: | Thorian:
               _____________________|________________________
                                 Indoctrination | Spores
                  Harvest/corrupt species | Absorb/replicate species
  Sentient synthetic/organic hybrid | Sentient organic
Ancient/Older than we can fathom | Ancient/At least older than the Protheans (100,000+)
                   Cephalopodic anatomy | Arguably cephalopodic anatomy
 Hibernates for thousands of years | Can hibernate for thousands of years

(I apologize for the unorthodox format, but I was feeling creative)

Those are the relevant comparisons off the top of my head. Feel free to add more.

From the Leviathan leaks, I believe we learn there is reason to believe that the Reapers failed to exterminate all of their creators. Their creators, very likely, would have gone into hiding and become scattered. The predicament we find the Thorian in seems to be rather degrading for a creature of its stature. Maybe it was hiding. Who knows?

Does anyone think there is a chance we will find out the Reapers and Thorian are related in some way? I think it would be awesome, and I believe there is sufficient evidence to at least speculate about it. They seem to be similar, yet opposing, forces. They have a strong influence among organics around them. They both take advantage of the genetic makeup of organics, as well. The means, however, that they use to utilize organics are very different.

The Reapers lie to their servants and skew their reality. The Thorian chastises its servants in order to train them. The Reapers harvest and violate organic species by turning them into monstrous abominations as well as material to replicate themselves out of. The Thorian takes a specimen and replicates its DNA by cloning it, without harming the specimen (unless you hate the color green).

It seems like they both are driven to control and utilize organics. However, the Reapers permanently damage them in order to use them as resources, while the Thorian absorbs their essence without inflicting significant harm.

Thoughts, anyone?

My thought is that the reapers used the thorian species as a template to further evolve themselves or at least use as a tool much like they used Protheans' template to become the Collectors.. asari for banshees.. turians/krogans for brutes, etc etc.

As complex an organism as the thorian is, I can't imagine what sort of "civilization" it could develop that the reapers would feel compelled to harvest. The fact that it seemed neccessary for it to hiberate and go into hiding indicates that the reapers were culling the thorians.. very likely for the sole purpose to use their biology. It may even have had a role in helping the reapers develop indoctrination technology.

Those similarities are interesting, however, I think the Thorian is a dead end, since we don't have anymore details into its past history. A good idea, but I don't see it being a creator or even related to the Reapers.

[CoolioThane]

FFZero wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

FFs don't make your own ending, just wait.

We are waiting. Right now we’re kind of in the ‘what if’ frame of mind. Basically what if Bioware never deny or confirm IT and continue to say up until the end of the DLC cycle and beyond ‘You can make up your own ending’, well that’s what we’ll do, we’ll make an ending that can satisfy IT fans. If we ever make a start on this interactive graphic novel idea it will most likely be once the DLC is done and ME3 as we know it is finished.

Awesome idea actually

[DoomsdayDevice]

I can't believe people are so disheartened to hear this. Of course they'll forever leave it ambiguous, it's their artistic vision. That doesn't mean IT isn't true. It just means you'll never get official confirmation. I've been saying this for ages.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 août 2012 - 10:53 .

[byne]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I can't believe people are so disheartened to hear this. Of course they'll forever leave it ambiguous, it's their artistic vision. That doesn't mean IT isn't true. It just means you'll never get official conformation. I've been saying this for ages.

I'm not disheartened. Nothing changed. He told us what we already knew, plus he contradicted himself in the post, claiming both that it wouldnt add to the endings, but that it would also add new dialogue.

Like someone else has been saying (I forget who, I'm tired), they added an entire ending with just dialogue in the EC.

[TJBartlemus]

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

So what did I miss.
I admit I am a rare visiter to this forum, But I am by heart an ITer.
So what's this business about "making your own ending"?

Estebanus gave up hope on IT and decided to make his own ending, with blackjack! And hookers!

No, that's a last resort if IT indeed is wrong. I don't want to start it until all DLC is done or they outright say IT is wrong.

Probably the smart thing to do. We could also do it anyway as like if IT was true, what would happen when Shepard wakes up. The problem with saying we did it cause Bioware wouldn't provide IT is saying that we are giving up. Just describe it in the mood it is possible and this is what we would do if IT is true. 

[FFZero]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I can't believe people are so disheartened to hear this. Of course they'll forever leave it ambiguous, it's their artistic vision. That doesn't mean IT isn't true. It just means you'll never get official confirmation. I've been saying this for ages.

I’m not disheartened, nothing has changed for me personally, all BW are doing is trying to confuse us all through tricky wording, make it even harder for us to imagine what they have planned.

However most of us have been saying for a while if they want to continue the Mass Effect series in future they can’t keep the ending ambiguous, which means they will have to at some point confirm or deny IT.

[FreddyCast]

FFZero wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

FFs don't make your own ending, just wait.

We are waiting. Right now we’re kind of in the ‘what if’ frame of mind. Basically what if Bioware never deny or confirm IT and continue to say up until the end of the DLC cycle and beyond ‘You can make up your own ending’, well that’s what we’ll do, we’ll make an ending that can satisfy IT fans. If we ever make a start on this interactive graphic novel idea it will most likely be once the DLC is done and ME3 as we know it is finished.

I keep telling everybody, if you're going to make an ending for the IT. The FIRST thing you must do is figure out how to defeat the Reaper Armada. If you can't do that, then the IT is pointless.
I made a post a few days ago dealing with this very issue.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13443187/1#13462175
Please feel free to leave any comments or criticisms.
WARNING: Your eyes will melt from all the text.

[DoomsdayDevice]

byne wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

I can't believe people are so disheartened to hear this. Of course they'll forever leave it ambiguous, it's their artistic vision. That doesn't mean IT isn't true. It just means you'll never get official confirmation. I've been saying this for ages.

I'm not disheartened. Nothing changed. He told us what we already knew, plus he contradicted himself in the post, claiming both that it wouldnt add to the endings, but that it would also add new dialogue.

Like someone else has been saying (I forget who, I'm tired), they added an entire ending with just dialogue in the EC.

Exactly. Also, remember that other thing Priestly twittered recently, about 'taking the next step' or some such?

[paxxton]

What about Destroy leaving Shepard paralyzed or behaving like a freak?

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 11:01 .

[Dam0299]

On another note about the thorian and the reapers, Dont you think a reapers claws/legs resemble the thorians head?.

[FreddyCast]

paxxton wrote...

What about Destroy leaving Shepard paralyzed or behaving like a freak?

If that happens, God forbid, then one of his squadmates will have to finish the job. I wouldn't mind playing Garrus. I know Garrus would like to win one over Shepard.

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

What about Destroy leaving Shepard paralyzed or behaving like a freak?

Now that would be a bold step from the devs...I guess other games did already do something like that. Should be possible!

[paxxton]

Dam0299 wrote...

On another note about the thorian and the reapers, Dont you think a reapers claws/legs resemble the thorians head?.

The Thorian resembles a giant slimy onion so I'm not sure about the Reapers.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 11:07 .

[FreddyCast]

Dam0299 wrote...

On another note about the thorian and the reapers, Dont you think a reapers claws/legs resemble the thorians head?.

No! A head is a head and not a leg, and a leg is a leg and not a head. Simple.

[TSA_383]

CoolioThane wrote...

FFs don't make your own ending, just wait.

This.
Game development takes time.
If you start making your own content, you:

1-Run the risk of EA sueing your balls off because they own the rights to the ME franchise.
2-Won't have anything substantial finished before the end of next year.

I've worked for a little indie developer writing flight-sim code (the project's currently on hold, we were making a base-jumping/wingsuit sim) and it's really tragic how long some things end up taking.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What about Destroy leaving Shepard paralyzed or behaving like a freak?

Now that would be a bold step from the devs...I guess other games did already do something like that. Should be possible!

It would be a very sad ending of Shepard's story but at least that would somehow explain why BioWare is insisting on that the story is over despite that it clearly is not. On the other hand, in almost the 23rd Century those conditions could be curable.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 11:12 .

[Chriz Tah Fah]

paxxton wrote...

Dam0299 wrote...

On another note about the thorian and the reapers, Dont you think a reapers claws/legs resemble the thorians head?.

The Thorian resembles a giant slimy onion so I'm not sure about the Reapers.

So the Thorian resembles a regular onion...

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What about Destroy leaving Shepard paralyzed or behaving like a freak?

Now that would be a bold step from the devs...I guess other games did already do something like that. Should be possible!

It would be a very sad ending of Shepard's story but at least that would somehow explain why BioWare is insisting on that the story is over despite that it clearly is not. On the other hand, in almost the 23rd Century those conditions could be curable.

Yes, of course that should be no problem for Shepard to be fine -- remember, he died <_<. So he already is partially synthetic. But even with him having non organic parts it seems to have been lost by the media, as they found out pretty fast about same sex relationships. <_<

The only more interesting possibilty is, what you so politically correctly called 'behaving like a freak'. If they can get that to work -- they couldn't get the player losing control of Shep, remember? -- the more awesome that would be...but difficult for the player/Shepard bond because the player not being able to feel represented by Shepard (= losing control) is the main indicator we have for indoc.

So if in Destroy Shepard indeed overcomes the indoc. attempt, the player-Shep relationship should be rather reinstated to the maximum. And I don't know how a too much damaged Shepard would work. The squadmates however...THAT would be highly interesting!

[paxxton]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dam0299 wrote...

On another note about the thorian and the reapers, Dont you think a reapers claws/legs resemble the thorians head?.

The Thorian resembles a giant slimy onion so I'm not sure about the Reapers.

So the Thorian resembles a regular onion...

There are sweet onions too (used for fast food). The Thorian isn't one.

EDIT: Forgot to add a smiley.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 août 2012 - 11:28 .

[Simon_Says]

CoolioThane wrote...

Post ending dlc...don't change endings.

Ending DLC would be like Suicide Mission DLC.

We don't want Suicide Mission DLC. We want another Arrival DLC.

It's like that.

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Post ending dlc...don't change endings.

Ending DLC would be like Suicide Mission DLC.

We don't want Suicide Mission DLC. We want another Arrival DLC.

It's like that.

Speaking of the suicide mission, wouldnt it have been awesome if we could have assigned party members to do certain things during Priority: Earth?

Like, sending Garrus with some of the marines that are supposed to be watching your sides so they dont have to fall back when you're guarding the missiles, and depending on who you sent, less enemies show up. Stuff like that.

[FellishBeast]

FellishBeast wrote...

How are things, o thread?

I thought, since Leviathan should be coming out soon, I would bring up the topic of the Thorian again. Hopefully many of you have noticed the similarities between the Reapers and the Thorian from ME1:

                                         Reapers: | Thorian:
               _____________________|________________________
                                 Indoctrination | Spores
                  Harvest/corrupt species | Absorb/replicate species
  Sentient synthetic/organic hybrid | Sentient organic
Ancient/Older than we can fathom | Ancient/At least older than the Protheans (100,000+)
                   Cephalopodic anatomy | Arguably cephalopodic anatomy
 Hibernates for thousands of years | Can hibernate for thousands of years

(I apologize for the unorthodox format, but I was feeling creative)

Those are the relevant comparisons off the top of my head. Feel free to add more.

From the Leviathan leaks, I believe we learn there is reason to believe that the Reapers failed to exterminate all of their creators. Their creators, very likely, would have gone into hiding and become scattered. The predicament we find the Thorian in seems to be rather degrading for a creature of its stature. Maybe it was hiding. Who knows?

Does anyone think there is a chance we will find out the Reapers and Thorian are related in some way? I think it would be awesome, and I believe there is sufficient evidence to at least speculate about it. They seem to be similar, yet opposing, forces. They have a strong influence among organics around them. They both take advantage of the genetic makeup of organics, as well. The means, however, that they use to utilize organics are very different.

The Reapers lie to their servants and skew their reality. The Thorian chastises its servants in order to train them. The Reapers harvest and violate organic species by turning them into monstrous abominations as well as material to replicate themselves out of. The Thorian takes a specimen and replicates its DNA by cloning it, without harming the specimen (unless you hate the color green).

It seems like they both are driven to control and utilize organics. However, the Reapers permanently damage them in order to use them as resources, while the Thorian absorbs their essence without inflicting significant harm.

Thoughts, anyone?

Just remembered another interesting little tidbit:

Although this isn't necessarily their true name, the Geth refer to the Reapers as the "Old Machines." In ME1, the Thorian is, at times, referred to as the "Old Growth."

Just an observation. 

Edit: Here is a good picture comparing the two. Look at how the Thorian has five tentacles on its head in the same arrangement as a vanilla Reaper.

Modifié par FellishBeast, 04 août 2012 - 11:33 .