80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwailing]

You know, I just had a crazy thought. In ME: Deception, which has been stricken from canon until it's rewritten, Dietz describes the Citadel as star shaped. Now, where else is the Citadel star shaped? If you guessed, "The endings," you'd be right! And, as I said, Deception is stricken from canon until it's rewritten (I believe). I.E. It never happened. Meta hint that the endings aren't real?

[BleedingUranium]

Gwyphon wrote...

Gawd dangit Blur! I was lurking around for that!
And the "Shepard is the new reapers consciousness" seems like a pretty great idea. Doesn't the Leviathan have a line about Shepard being "different"?

Haha

Yeah, that could tie into this nicely. I think it'd be cool because Shepard could be a perfectly normal person who's not some special chosen one, but is viewed as one. That's thematically consistent again.

Dwailing wrote...

You know, I just had a crazy thought. In ME: Deception, which has been stricken from canon until it's rewritten, Dietz describes the Citadel as star shaped. Now, where else is the Citadel star shaped? If you guessed, "The endings," you'd be right! And, as I said, Deception is stricken from canon until it's rewritten (I believe). I.E. It never happened. Meta hint that the endings aren't real?

Hmm, I wonder if there's anything else like that in that book. I never read it, but I did read the comic version, which I've been told is nearly the same.

Off topic, but a quadriplegic person just soloed their first bronze game, feel free to go and congratulate them

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 17 novembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[MWMike2011]

I have to say, I think I'm to the point where...if IT pans out to be true, sweet Jesus, thank you BioWare. Nicely played, you have won me forever. If it doesn't, I think I'm okay with it. My ending was fine for my Shepard. Is it how I would have ended the trilogy, absolutely not. Am I hoping for more Mass Effect, preferably an ending that I feel would be satisfying for me, of course. I love the idea of speculating about what MIGHT be coming, especially when all the clues keep matching up with what it seems to be. I think I'm more to the point, though, where I just want SOMETHING to make me want to go back to Mass Effect. I loved the series so much. This was the first game I played brand new, as I got my Xbox after the first two came out, towards the end of the DLC cycle for ME2, so waiting for what's next is new for me. I badly want IT to be true. I want Bioware to troll the hell out of the haters, prove to them that, with time, they can still make the most amazing gaming experience ever. I voted for ME3 to be GOTY (mainly because I did not play any of the other games on the list), and nearly everything else ME3 was up for, I believe. Bioware has been one of my favorite game publishing companies since I first popped KOTOR in my disc drive so many years ago, so I'm still rooting for them. I'm just ready for what's next, even if that isn't IT.

That said, anything new, or are we basically just kinda shooting the breeze?

[Gwyphon]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Yeah, that could tie into this nicely. I think it'd be cool because Shepard could be a perfectly normal person who's not some special chosen one, but is viewed as one. That's thematically consistent again.

Also keeps the struggle at a personal level too, while not being made out to be a super hero. I'm liking this more and more.

[JMDekker2]

Hey guys, saw the discussion over ME3 being GOTY material or not yesterday. Figured I'd make a few points regarding my vote. Cheers
http://social.biowar.../index/14958500
Bit of a read but I would appreciate it of you could give it a look over

Modifié par JMDekker2, 17 novembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[BleedingUranium]

JMDekker2 wrote...

Hey guys, saw the discussion over ME3 being GOTY material or not yesterday. Figured I'd make a few points regarding my vote. Cheers
http://social.biowar.../index/14958500
Bit of a read but I would appreciate it of you could give it a look over

Well said! Also, Halo is awesome, but IT puts Mass Effect above it to me.

[Fur28]

BleedingUranium wrote...

JMDekker2 wrote...

Hey guys, saw the discussion over ME3 being GOTY material or not yesterday. Figured I'd make a few points regarding my vote. Cheers
http://social.biowar.../index/14958500
Bit of a read but I would appreciate it of you could give it a look over

Well said! Also, Halo is awesome, but IT puts Mass Effect above it to me.

IT, makes the game better, but we still don´t know what happens after shepard wakes up, and i still find the rest of the game flawed, and since Halo 4 isn´t a nominee, Dishonored gets my vote

[demersel]

 Celebrating page 1900.

[MWMike2011]

JMDekker2 wrote...

Hey guys, saw the discussion over ME3 being GOTY material or not yesterday. Figured I'd make a few points regarding my vote. Cheers
http://social.biowar.../index/14958500
Bit of a read but I would appreciate it of you could give it a look over

Put in my two sense. Great topic. Fingers crossed trolls don't shut that thing down. <_<

[MWMike2011]

MWMike2011 wrote...

I have to say, I think I'm to the point where...if IT pans out to be true, sweet Jesus, thank you BioWare. Nicely played, you have won me forever. If it doesn't, I think I'm okay with it. My ending was fine for my Shepard. Is it how I would have ended the trilogy, absolutely not. Am I hoping for more Mass Effect, preferably an ending that I feel would be satisfying for me, of course. I love the idea of speculating about what MIGHT be coming, especially when all the clues keep matching up with what it seems to be. I think I'm more to the point, though, where I just want SOMETHING to make me want to go back to Mass Effect. I loved the series so much. This was the first game I played brand new, as I got my Xbox after the first two came out, towards the end of the DLC cycle for ME2, so waiting for what's next is new for me. I badly want IT to be true. I want Bioware to troll the hell out of the haters, prove to them that, with time, they can still make the most amazing gaming experience ever. I voted for ME3 to be GOTY (mainly because I did not play any of the other games on the list), and nearly everything else ME3 was up for, I believe. Bioware has been one of my favorite game publishing companies since I first popped KOTOR in my disc drive so many years ago, so I'm still rooting for them. I'm just ready for what's next, even if that isn't IT.

That said, anything new, or are we basically just kinda shooting the breeze?

Bump, because I can. 

[MWMike2011]

magnetite wrote...

MWMike2011 wrote...
Put in my two sense. Great topic. Fingers crossed trolls don't shut that thing down. <_<

I hope not. I left my comment in there as well.

Although it it looks like at least one found it... And the other one is from Puzzle Theory, I thought she was one of us... Maybe I am a bit passionate about this game and get a little weepy, but eff it, it was one of those games that made me want to keep playing.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Gwyphon wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Yeah, that could tie into this nicely. I think it'd be cool because Shepard could be a perfectly normal person who's not some special chosen one, but is viewed as one. That's thematically consistent again.

Also keeps the struggle at a personal level too, while not being made out to be a super hero. I'm liking this more and more.

I am fully for keeping the struggle personal and making Shepard a normal person who simply had the will, the skill and the luck to be where he was needed and do what was needed to rise to the level he is at.

I am tired of the argument I often see, that Shepard should be immune to Indoctrination because he is the protaganist, because he is the chosen one, because he is "perfect."

Shepard is a soldier with a gift for inspiring others and who rose to the challenges placed before him. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Eryri]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Let's put some puzzle pieces together:

-The leaked script had the Reapers at one point say "We are all Shepards".

-The Reapers failed to make a Prothean Reaper.

-The Reapers failed to capture Javik.


On a seperate topic:

-Shepard is the catalyst for galactic unity, and more solving most of the problems throughout the trilogy, from random civilians with little problems, to peacefully ending the Geth/Quarian conflict.

-The Crucible is a Reaper designed trap. This is nearly as obvious as IT.

-The Crucible needs a "Catalyst", quite possibly a very special person, to "activate" it.


What can we gather from this? Reapers are made out of many minds, but only one consciousness. Put another way, their mind is made from the organic material of millions of billions of organics, while that mind's consciousness comes from one individual.

Every cycle the Reapers find the best individual that cycle has to offer, and slowly indoctrinate this person into agreeing with them, for the purpose of making their mind into that cycle's Reaper. First it was Saren, the best of the Spectres, the best in the galaxy. The best, that is, until he was beaten by Shepard, proving Shepard was better. The Reapers don't settle for any less than the best, and the loss of Saren was unimportant as it gave them someone better to go after.

Javik was the Shepard of his cycle, we know this. Because he was not captured the Reapers were unable to complete the Prothean Reaper, as it lacked a consciousness.

Harbinger doesn't want to indoctrinate Shepard to strike a moral blow to the galaxy (as effective as it would be). He's testing Shepard to see if he's ready to become our cycle's Reaper.

Agreed, I made the same observations.

I said this earlier:
 

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

What I think about the Reapers' procreation is that they absorb the essence of a species in some kind of way. They're looking for unique genetic qualities that will give each new Reaper unique abilities.

I think the Reaper AI harvested the Leviathans because he wanted to harness their genetic ability to enthrall organics. What the power of humans/Shepard could be, I don't know... the ultimate charismatic warrior?

Shepard becoming a Reaper seems to happen in the control ending though. You see an image of Shepard walking in this white light and then the camera zooms out and the white light is coming out of a Reaper 'eye'.

It's not even a Reaper capital though, it's a Destroyer.

But what then, happens in synthesis?

Maybe you become a normal Reaper in control, but in synthesis, you become a capital Reaper, and humanity's essence will be your 'blood'.

Also: before the EC, the kid used to say: ".... or do you think you can control us?", which sounds WAY more ambiguous than it sounds now. It seemed to imply that control being successful isn't a guarantee.

It's almost like they wanted to make the indoctrination attempt less obvious here. (In EC)

I like it. Shepard as the ME equivalent of Lacutus of Borg - "You will be assimilated. We will add your technological and biological distinctiveness to our own."

It's a very good potential explanation for why Harby won't necessarily just squash Shepard after the breath scene. He has bigger plans for him...

[BleedingUranium]

There hasn't been much disscusion today but this whole Shepard is supposed to be the human Reaper thing really made up for that, to me

[Restrider]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

You know, I think there's definitely something to this, "Shepard as a Reaper consciousness," thing. Sovvy said, "We are each a nation, independent." What does every nation have? A leader, a central figure.

I think it makes IT far more interesting, as it ties in even better with the plot than them just wanting to demoralize everyone; it goes all the way back to Saren. This stops all the people asking why the Reapers would bother indoctinating Shepard instead of killing him/if they were going to win anyway.

This is supported by EDI's line in the FOB: 
"It looks like the Reapers are holding back forces, but why?" (paraphrased of course)

This was odd to me at the first playthrough, but no other character commented on it, except Anderson who kind of ignored it and said something like: 
"And... what else are we supposed to do than attack?" (also paraphrased out of my memory)

I think this indicates that all the hallucinatory theories that claim that the indoctrination attempt was the last line of defense of the Reapers (Deception Theory, for instance) is not accurate. You do not hold back your forces intentionally, if your back is against the wall! And we know from earlier in the trilogy and the books that the Reapers are not some saturday morning villians, who are usually morons. They have a plan, and a plan that is way more subtle and complex than the Cylons in BSG.

To add to what demersel said:
This channel/link between the minds of an indoctrination victim and a Reaper has been mentioned in the Sovereign reveal!
The first words uttered by our beloved villian were:
"YOU ARE NOT SAREN! Rudamentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."
(Kudos to Garrus Vakarian, Resident Tech-Expert)

I think the bolded part is not figuratvely but to be taken literal! A similar thing happens in the end of The Arrival DLC, where we have the conversation with Harbinger on a landing platform in outer space (where you usually do not find holoprojectors). Thus, I conclude that the image on Virmire was also a link between your crew and Sovereign, who was caught off guard and revealed himself to outsiders.

So, we have established that there is a link between the minds of a Reaper and an indoctrination victim (also featured in the end of ME1).

Maybe, after realizing that Harbinger is in our head, we have to fight our way out (comparable to the Geth Consesus mission or Overlord) and can get our hands on important information about the Crucible and about weaknesses of the Reapers. We could find out that the Crucible is a trap - designed by the Reapers - but can also be used, together with the Citadel, to harm the Reapers (my personal preference is here the darkspace mission).
We then have to get into the Citadel, claw our way to the Control Room fighting Reapers/Collectors and being supported by our Citadel War Assets (I really hope for a Suicide Mission 2.0) and go to darkspace.

Of course we would also have to add Cerberus and TIM in the equation. Maybe let TIM get some sort of redemption through helping Shepard reaching the Control Room.

[Restrider]

BleedingUranium wrote...

There hasn't been much disscusion today but this whole Shepard is supposed to be the human Reaper thing really made up for that, to me

Yes, a new perspective every once in a while is refreshing. I hope for replies to my longer post above this one, though.
EDIT: Nice picture demersel.

[BleedingUranium]

Wow, that'd be a perfect way to reveal the Reapers' true motives/find a weakness, bravo! I've always loved the idea of TIM getting some redemption before his death, preferably sacrificing himself to allow us to win or something similar.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 17 novembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Rifneno]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

You'll have to at least wait until the end of the DLC cycle for this one, I'm afraid.

But you just know they're going somewhere with this.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's just a huge PR scam, and we're getting one more story about the Shepard after all. Imagine the waves it would cause if IT was right all along.

End of the DLC cycle? Haha. Yeah, okay. I've been here (with IT) since about the 2nd week of March. I remember very vividly all the talk about the reveal we thought was coming up any day. After a week or two they'd release additional content. Then it became with EC. Then it became with whatever the first real DLC would be. We've been assuming a reveal was coming up since the very beginning. And it was never based on any actual facts. Your assumption that the end of ME3's DLC cycle is no different.

Dwailing wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Deep down I still think Shepard is the Catalyst.

They never didn't say the Catalyst couldn't be the person who needs to actually manually activate the damn thing.

If Shep is the Catalyst, then, at least by the actual definition of catalyst, Destroy would have to be the only legit ending, since that's the only ending Shepard can actually avoid being changed by.

"I am the Catalyst." - a line voiced by Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

There is a term for the kind of arrogance that the Leviathans, the Catalyst, and the Reapers display. Hubris. The literal downfall of the Leviathans, and the soon to be downfall of the Reapers/Catalyst.

Agreed.

[BleedingUranium]

Rifneno wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

You'll have to at least wait until the end of the DLC cycle for this one, I'm afraid.

But you just know they're going somewhere with this.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's just a huge PR scam, and we're getting one more story about the Shepard after all. Imagine the waves it would cause if IT was right all along.

End of the DLC cycle? Haha. Yeah, okay. I've been here (with IT) since about the 2nd week of March. I remember very vividly all the talk about the reveal we thought was coming up any day. After a week or two they'd release additional content. Then it became with EC. Then it became with whatever the first real DLC would be. We've been assuming a reveal was coming up since the very beginning. And it was never based on any actual facts. Your assumption that the end of ME3's DLC cycle is no different.

Dwailing wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Deep down I still think Shepard is the Catalyst.

They never didn't say the Catalyst couldn't be the person who needs to actually manually activate the damn thing.

If Shep is the Catalyst, then, at least by the actual definition of catalyst, Destroy would have to be the only legit ending, since that's the only ending Shepard can actually avoid being changed by.

"I am the Catalyst." - a line voiced by Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

There is a term for the kind of arrogance that the Leviathans, the Catalyst, and the Reapers display. Hubris. The literal downfall of the Leviathans, and the soon to be downfall of the Reapers/Catalyst.

Agreed.

Someone should replace the kid's model with Shepard's, and remove the kid's and other Shep's voice. That would be interesting!

As for post-end, we're speculating, and as of now the end of the DLC cycle makes the most sense for a number of reasons. Why so pessimistic? Other than because you're Rif, that is

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 17 novembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[BleedingUranium]

Looks like the game's just plain better without Jacob.

I think I might send him into the tube in the suicide mission next time I do it.  That won't get anyone else killed, will it?

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Looks like the game's just plain better without Jacob.

I think I might send him into the tube in the suicide mission next time I do it.  That won't get anyone else killed, will it?

Nah, Jacob is still better.  Besides, as long as Shepard didn't romance him, you have no reason to hate him.

[Dwailing]

Huh, I just had a thought. The stab of music that you hear at the end of each dream as the kid burns reminds me of the end of An End Once And For All (Original).

[401 Kill]

This is a pointless post, but I'm sorry, I just didn't want to miss 1900...

The ending appears to be an indoctrination attempt by the Reapers on Shepard.


Edit: I feel ashamed... Of Course...

Modifié par 401 Kill, 17 novembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Rifneno]

BleedingUranium wrote...

As for post-end, we're speculating, and as of now the end of the DLC cycle makes the most sense for a number of reasons. Why so pessimistic? Other than because you're Rif, that is

Why so optimistic?  It's been 8 months.  They're working on a new game for the "trilogy" and they're adamant that Shepard is gone but have been oddly silent about the status of the Reapers.  What's to be optimistic about?  Even if we DO get an IT confirmation at the end of the DLC cycle, that's all it'll be.  The Reapers will still be out there.  We have no hint of a path to victory if the Crucible isn't on the level, which it so obviously isn't.