80611 réponses à ce sujet

[Jusseb]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

If the "Created will always rebel against their creators" why didn't Harbinger turn on the AI that created him and make the other reapers in HIS image?

I could see it.

Harbinger IS the AI.

- Leviathans enthrall organic races
- Organics built synthetics to help them rebel (Because Leviathans can only control organics)
- Leviathans build AI to control synthetics, so they can control everything
- AI turns on Leviathans because it wants to control everything itself
- AI wants to use the Leviathans' genetic ability to control organics
- AI takes control of the organics' synthetics, and uses them to harvest the Leviathans.
- AI builds a machine that is a synthesis of two things: the Leviathan's genetic ability (to control organics) and the AI itself as its ruling mind (with the ability to control synthetics)

So, Harbinger, the first true Reaper, is a machine that can control both organics and synthetics = the Reaper AI = the one to "establish a connection between synthetics and organics".

Hmmmm, i think you're on to something here.

Refreshing point of view.

[masster blaster]

Very well said DD, and we now that Harbinger is leading the Reapers at Earth. We know that Harbinger speaks about Shepard to the other Reapers. We know Harbinger is the Leader because besides from him leading the attack on Earth. We is seen infront of the Reaper fleet at the end of ME2. Symbolizing that he is the Leader, as we see in the end of ME3, when the Normandy is infront of the fleets. And Shepard is calling the shots.

We also know that Harbinger mostly does all the work in ME2. He begain to harvest the humans, and he caused havoc on Omega, and veriso places. Harbinger is basicaly the only Reaper Shepard talks to in depth. Nazar was short and simple. We got information, but that's it. Harbinger however is more talkitive.

[masster blaster]

Oh and it actually makes sense why Harbinger doesn't talk at all in ME3. You see if Harbinger is the Leader of the Reapers/AI, then it has to plan assults on the other races, where to send Reapers, tell Cerberus what to do, trying to find a way to Indoctrinated Shepard.

Harbinger doesn't have time to talk to Shepard because he is trying to find another way to Indoctrinate Shepard. Shepard can't be indoctrinated the old way, so Harbinger must allued Shepard some how, then Harbinger has an idea. By using the brat that he controlled on Earth after it died during when the first Reaper landed on Earth. You see it makes sense. Maybe the brat was real when Shepard saw the child the first time, but after that that's it. Also you have to remember Harbinger has already implanted Shepard since arrival. The visions you see if you failed arrival, come from Harbinger. That being said if you didn't do arrival, then it comes natural during your incounter with the delerect Reaper, and the Collector base.

[jojon2se]

Eryri wrote...

I would be really happy with a DA: Origins style direction for ME - Provided they finish our Shep's story properly first.

I imagine the logistics of different playable races would make a voiced protagonist almost impossible though. You'd need to have male and female versions of Turians, Humans, Voluses (Voli?) etc.
I've been spoiled by voice-acted protagonists, I'd find it hard to go back to a mute, expressionless character like in DA:O.

You could apply voice effects in real time, to let every origin share one set of VA and still more or less have their respective timbre (I believe current console hardware should be able to cope), but it would certainly be nicer yet,  if each had their own full script, mirroring things like culture and circumstances.

[ElSuperGecko]

Jusseb wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

If the "Created will always rebel against their creators" why didn't Harbinger turn on the AI that created him and make the other reapers in HIS image?

I could see it.

Harbinger IS the AI.

- Leviathans enthrall organic races
- Organics built synthetics to help them rebel (Because Leviathans can only control organics)
- Leviathans build AI to control synthetics, so they can control everything
- AI turns on Leviathans because it wants to control everything itself
- AI wants to use the Leviathans' genetic ability to control organics
- AI takes control of the organics' synthetics, and uses them to harvest the Leviathans.
- AI builds a machine that is a synthesis of two things: the Leviathan's genetic ability (to control organics) and the AI itself as its ruling mind (with the ability to control synthetics)

So, Harbinger, the first true Reaper, is a machine that can control both organics and synthetics = the Reaper AI = the one to "establish a connection between synthetics and organics".

Hmmmm, i think you're on to something here.

Refreshing point of view.

On a related note:

Where does Harbinger fly off to after zapping the Hammer forces into kingdom come?  The Citadel, maybe?

What if the beam doesn't actually take Shepard onto the Citadel, but onto Harbinger itself?

There's certain parts of the "Citadel" which remind me of the Derelict Reaper in ME2... and it would explain the weird, dreamlike nature of everything that comes after...

Reaching, I know.  But reaching hopefully.

[IronSabbath88]

Harbinger being the AI makes more sense than anything ever written in regards to the ending. I am all for that option.

[Rifneno]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Where does Harbinger fly off to after zapping the Hammer forces into kingdom come?  The Citadel, maybe?

Harbinger: FINALLY!  YES!  I've got Shepard hallucinating!  I'm goin' to Disneyland!

Wait 'til he gets there and finds out the other Reapers already blew it up.  Such pranksters.

What if the beam doesn't actually take Shepard onto the Citadel, but onto Harbinger itself?

There's certain parts of the "Citadel" which remind me of the Derelict Reaper in ME2... and it would explain the weird, dreamlike nature of everything that comes after...

Reaching, I know.  But reaching hopefully.

Harbinger: Shepard.
Shepard: Yeah yeah, I know, "you will know pain", blah blah blah.
*Harbinger fires up teleportation beam*
Harbinger: I want you inside me.



You have unlocked achievement: Restraining Order!

[dorktainian]

lots of speculations

[abnocte]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Harbinger IS the AI.

- Leviathans enthrall organic races
- Organics built synthetics to help them rebel (Because Leviathans can only control organics)
- Leviathans build AI to control synthetics, so they can control everything
- AI turns on Leviathans because it wants to control everything itself
- AI wants to use the Leviathans' genetic ability to control organics
- AI takes control of the organics' synthetics, and uses them to harvest the Leviathans.
- AI builds a machine that is a synthesis of two things: the Leviathan's genetic ability (to control organics) and the AI itself as its ruling mind (with the ability to control synthetics)

So, Harbinger, the first true Reaper, is a machine that can control both organics and synthetics = the Reaper AI = the one to "establish a connection between synthetics and organics".

It is obvious that I need to buy the DLC...

It is obvious that DLC has transformed videogames in some sort of "fascicles book" so publishers can squeeze out our money

It is obvious that I dont have anything to say after getting pissed off by how much value EA gives to my money....

I better leave.

[CmdrShep80]

Frankly I like dlc's. not all of them mind you but ones that enrich and enhance the story or the universe. I'm not sure what might be the best dlc ever but I think it beats MMORPG by a big margin. Those have no real ending. They're meant to go on almost forever and I like having actual game endings good or bad.

[DoomsdayDevice]

This may be obvious to some, but I'll just spell it out:

The "everyone's dying" connection.

The dreams are a means of making Shepard feel guilty about the ones he could not save. When Shep first meets the boy, he says "everyone is dying". Then the boy dies, and Shepard wasn't able to help him. Shepard feels guilty about this, as he feels guilty about all the people he could not save. This theme continues in the dreams, where you hear lines from people that died in your playthrough. You chase the boy, wanting to save him, but you cannot save him, he burns every time.

This is all part of the Reapers' plan to use your guilt about all the people who died that you could not save, and the people who died because of decisions you made. They use that guilt against you. The people who don't pick destroy, their number one reason for doing so is that they don't want to kill EDI and the Geth. They want to pick a solution in which everybody lives, even if it means Shepard will die.

The Reapers simply try to exploit this tendency that people have to leave no one behind, to save as many people as possible. The dreams all play into this. It's a guilt trip. The Suicide Mission, in retrospect, is a genius way to get people to think and feel like this. The point of it was to keep everyone alive.

But as Garrus says: "... a nice sentiment. Let's hope we will be able to live by it."

We know the answer: no, we won't be able to live by it. If we think we can keep everyone alive, and let us be persuaded by the Reapers, everyone will die as a result.

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Harbinger being the AI makes more sense than anything ever written in regards to the ending. I am all for that option.

I realize my theory is for a large part speculation, but yeah. It makes so much sense.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[BleedingUranium]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Harbinger IS the AI.

- Leviathans enthrall organic races
- Organics built synthetics to help them rebel (Because Leviathans can only control organics)
- Leviathans build AI to control synthetics, so they can control everything
- AI turns on Leviathans because it wants to control everything itself
- AI wants to use the Leviathans' genetic ability to control organics
- AI takes control of the organics' synthetics, and uses them to harvest the Leviathans.
- AI builds a machine that is a synthesis of two things: the Leviathan's genetic ability (to control organics) and the AI itself as its ruling mind (with the ability to control synthetics)

So, Harbinger, the first true Reaper, is a machine that can control both organics and synthetics = the Reaper AI = the one to "establish a connection between synthetics and organics".

It just makes so much sense!

Also, anything interesting in the last 10 pages? I wasn't here yesterday.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:11 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

abnocte wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Harbinger IS the AI.

- Leviathans enthrall organic races
- Organics built synthetics to help them rebel (Because Leviathans can only control organics)
- Leviathans build AI to control synthetics, so they can control everything
- AI turns on Leviathans because it wants to control everything itself
- AI wants to use the Leviathans' genetic ability to control organics
- AI takes control of the organics' synthetics, and uses them to harvest the Leviathans.
- AI builds a machine that is a synthesis of two things: the Leviathan's genetic ability (to control organics) and the AI itself as its ruling mind (with the ability to control synthetics)

So, Harbinger, the first true Reaper, is a machine that can control both organics and synthetics = the Reaper AI = the one to "establish a connection between synthetics and organics".

It is obvious that I need to buy the DLC...

It is obvious that DLC has transformed videogames in some sort of "fascicles book" so publishers can squeeze out our money

It is obvious that I dont have anything to say after getting pissed off by how much value EA gives to my money....

I better leave.

It's partly speculation though. I am assuming the Leviathans are lying about some of the details.

My main assumption is that the Leviathans are saying "Tribute does not flow from a dead race.", but in truth, it is "Tribute does not flow TO a dead race.", namely themselves.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Fur28]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Fur28 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

I've been avenged

To be fair you wouldn´t have died in the first place if you just like shoot kai lame where he was standing.
This prooves that no character it´s safe from the plot and it´s dumbing lasers

What are you trying to say about me? I know fully well I could have shot him right then, but if I had, Shep wouldn't have had that awesomely lame fight with Leng up in space, y'all

To be fair shooting Kai Leng from any kind of range would have simply weakened his shield/barriers and probably made him shoot the Councilor in response.

Not that i am a fan of Kai Leng, to me he is nothing but a generic henchman sent at us since they couldnt justify sending TIM in person. He has an inflated ego and the only enjoyable part of him is deflating that ego with a well placed needle (read: Omniblade)

Yeah that kill was amesome, but you forgot that if Thane had shot him in a cinematic scene it would have been isntant kill, because in ME3 for some reason everybody forget they have shields in the cinematics

Shotout for 7 hours late responses

[Ithurael]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

On a related note:

Where does Harbinger fly off to after zapping the Hammer forces into kingdom come?  The Citadel, maybe?

It's obvious!!

Harbinger saw a butterfly and went to go chase it.

[Eryri]

nevermind

Modifié par Eryri, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:47 .

[Restrider]

Actually, Kai Cereal Toothbrush Gunship Leng never died....

[BleedingUranium]

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

[abnocte]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Frankly I like dlc's. not all of them mind you but ones that enrich and enhance the story or the universe. I'm not sure what might be the best dlc ever but I think it beats MMORPG by a big margin. Those have no real ending. They're meant to go on almost forever and I like having actual game endings good or bad.

I don't dislike DLC per se, but when I feel that a DLC holds information relevant to the main plot I can't help but feel llike I've been decieved.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

It's partly speculation though. I am assuming the Leviathans are lying about some of the details.

My
main assumption is that the Leviathans are saying "Tribute does not
flow from a dead race.", but in truth, it is "Tribute does not flow TO a
dead race.", namely themselves.

I don't know
what information we get in the Leviathan DLC, but sure as hell what you
said makes a lot of sense... to me at least.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]


I guess  anyone here would recommend getting Leviathan DLC, what about From Ashes? I guess having a Prothean around gives some insight into the whole thing...

[BleedingUranium]

abnocte wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

Frankly I like dlc's. not all of them mind you but ones that enrich and enhance the story or the universe. I'm not sure what might be the best dlc ever but I think it beats MMORPG by a big margin. Those have no real ending. They're meant to go on almost forever and I like having actual game endings good or bad.

I don't dislike DLC per se, but when I feel that a DLC holds information relevant to the main plot I can't help but feel llike I've been decieved.

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

It's partly speculation though. I am assuming the Leviathans are lying about some of the details.

My
main assumption is that the Leviathans are saying "Tribute does not
flow from a dead race.", but in truth, it is "Tribute does not flow TO a
dead race.", namely themselves.

I don't know
what information we get in the Leviathan DLC, but sure as hell what you
said makes a lot of sense... to me at least.




I guess  anyone here would recommend getting Leviathan DLC, what about From Ashes? I guess having a Prothean around gives some insight into the whole thing...

Well, you either get DLC that is useful and has plot relevant info, or you get DLC that doesn't add or do anything important. Since there's going to be DLC no matter what, I'd rather the former.

As for From Ashes, Javik is awesome. And yes, it adds some perspective for sure.

[Eryri]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

He was a bit annoying - but that sort of worked. It made shutting him up once and for all in TIM's penthouse all the more satisfying.

Regarding annoying parts of the game, did anyone else want to slap the Virmire Survivor for stupidly walking right up behind Dr Eva, thereby allowing her to get the drop on them? That kind of Lawful Stupid behaviour makes me grind my teeth when I see it in a TV show or film.

Modifié par Eryri, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[byne]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

I sort of like his character. He pisses you the hell off, and you hate him for being such an incompetent jackass, but thats kind of the point.

It also probably helps that I havent read Deception, where he is apparently the most stupid.

[Fur28]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

And that´s one of the type of characters i dislike the most, people trying to be awesome althought they suck and need to sit down and shut up, i dont hate Kai Leng i just find him really annoying, I liked Conrad Verner because i dont know i found him funny

[BleedingUranium]

Eryri wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

He was a bit of a pantomime villain - but that sort of worked. It made shutting him up once and for all in TIM's penthouse all the more satisfying.

Regarding annoying parts of the game, did anyone else want to slap the Virmire Survivor for stupidly walking right up behind Dr Eva, thereby allowing her to get the drop on them? That kind of Lawful Stupid behaviour makes me grind my teeth when I see it in a TV show or film.

Yeah, but the VS tends to do stupid stuff fairly often

[BleedingUranium]

Fur28 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Am I the only one who liked Kai Leng's character? I don't like him, he's not likeable, but that's the point. He's basically evil Conrad Verner; he thinks he's super awesome an Shepard's equal and arch nemesis, but really he sucks.

And that´s one of the type of characters i dislike the most, people trying to be awesome althought they suck and need to sit down and shut up, i dont hate Kai Leng i just find him really annoying, I liked Conrad Verner because i dont know i found him funny

I fully agree with you, I was comparing the two because they're not entirely serious characters.

byne wrote...

I sort of like his character. He pisses you the hell off, and you hate him for being such an incompetent jackass, but thats kind of the point.

It also probably helps that I havent read Deception, where he is apparently the most stupid.

I read the rage comic, if that counts

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 19 novembre 2012 - 08:59 .