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[Raistlin Majare 1992]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

ChristianHarper wrote...

Yeah, sorry Bardox. I ain't buying your take on it.

All this speculation... What is it all really about? Answer = Shepard.

From the opening scene of Mass Effect, Anderson and Udina are discussing how important Shepard is in representing humanity to the council as a Spectre. In ME2, Shepard comes back from the dead, and we learn how Shepard is more than just another soldier. He is a symbol. In ME3, Leviathan tells Shepard that all of his victories are more than chance and that the Reapers see him as a threat. Not to mention little things like defeating Sovereign, the Collectors, Cerberus and killing multiple Reapers.

Harbinger wants Shepard. He IS unique, unlike anyone that Harbinger has encountered before. Maybe that's why they were building a human Reaper, when all other Reapers look like Leviathans.

All I know is that Shepard truly is an anomaly, and that IT makes the most sense to me.

i would love to know more about the context behind the ME1 game prologue. Why Shepard? How did they know Shepard would be the best choice?  What are they saying he would be the best at?  Looking back on it I have to wonder will we have a dlc explaining this?

Probably related to the Service history you choose where Shepard performed exemplary or survived something extreme. I even think the words used when talking about Shepard in the prologue is changed based on the service record.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

LMAO look at what I found on BioWare's official ME3 videos.  They took someone's submission and posted it.  It is titled:

Mass Effect 3 "Literal Trailer"

We should post this in the literal threads LMAO

That would be the work of Toby "TOBUSCUS" Turner, you should check out his other literal trailer stuff, it's pretty awesome. Unless you don't like his brand of humor, anyway...

[CmdrShep80]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

ChristianHarper wrote...

Yeah, sorry Bardox. I ain't buying your take on it.

All this speculation... What is it all really about? Answer = Shepard.

From the opening scene of Mass Effect, Anderson and Udina are discussing how important Shepard is in representing humanity to the council as a Spectre. In ME2, Shepard comes back from the dead, and we learn how Shepard is more than just another soldier. He is a symbol. In ME3, Leviathan tells Shepard that all of his victories are more than chance and that the Reapers see him as a threat. Not to mention little things like defeating Sovereign, the Collectors, Cerberus and killing multiple Reapers.

Harbinger wants Shepard. He IS unique, unlike anyone that Harbinger has encountered before. Maybe that's why they were building a human Reaper, when all other Reapers look like Leviathans.

All I know is that Shepard truly is an anomaly, and that IT makes the most sense to me.

i would love to know more about the context behind the ME1 game prologue. Why Shepard? How did they know Shepard would be the best choice?  What are they saying he would be the best at?  Looking back on it I have to wonder will we have a dlc explaining this?

Probably related to the Service history you choose where Shepard performed exemplary or survived something extreme. I even think the words used when talking about Shepard in the prologue is changed based on the service record.

The thing is it goes:

(almost as if we joined mid conversation)

Udina:  Well what about Shepard? (insert your prefered history) Earthborn...but no record of his family.
Captain Anderson:  Doesn't have one.  He was raised on the streets.  Learned to look out for himself.
Admiral Hackett:  He saw his whole unit die on Akuze.  He could have some serious emotional scars.
Captain Anderson: Every soldier has scars. Shepard's a survivor.

(So far in this context, there's nothing unique or special about Shepard.  This all changes depending on the service history you choose.  He looks like everyone else who's been in battle, or even went to the Alliance Acadamy)

Udina:  Is that the kind of person we want protecting the galaxy?
Captain Anderson:  That's the only kind of person who can protect the galaxy.
Udina: I'll make the call.

(This part of the context is the part I want to know more about as well as the converation piece before this all started.  All of it is the same no matter the service history)

What led Anderson, Hackett, and Udina to come to this conclusion?  Granted they could simply be talking about a desire to have a human represented as a Spectre or on the Council "protecting the galaxy."  But at the same time they could also be talking about choosing a Human that would become the next Reaper.  And just as well, talking about the Human who can truely save everyone

But still after the context of the other two games, who knows when Udina was orginally indoctrinated?  Hackett and Anderson, are they indoctrinated or are they not?  We don't have enough details in ME1 (yet) but by the time Priority Earth rolls around, likely Anderson's indoctrinated but likely Hackett is not.

It's entirely possible, that the whole prologue set in motion the "uplifting" of Shepard in one of two directions, uplifting for the benefit of Harbinger or uplifting for the benefit of the Leviathans.  Sovereign, the Leviathans, Kai Leng, and TIM all were in play before Shepard walked on to the scene.  Harbinger was not until at least the end of ME1 because he had to wait in dark space for the signal from Soverign who brute force sent a signal else, the citadel would have been overrun before ME1 even started.

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:54 .

[CmdrShep80]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

CmdrShep80 wrote...

LMAO look at what I found on BioWare's official ME3 videos.  They took someone's submission and posted it.  It is titled:

Mass Effect 3 "Literal Trailer"

We should post this in the literal threads LMAO

That would be the work of Toby "TOBUSCUS" Turner, you should check out his other literal trailer stuff, it's pretty awesome. Unless you don't like his brand of humor, anyway...

Not at all I really liked it

[BleedingUranium]

The goo becomes its brain. I've solved the puzzle.

Remember I mentioned a couple days ago that my theory is that each Reaper, though its brain is made from millions of melted people, only has one consciousness, one mind. The Reapers only make one new Reaper per cycle, why? Because each Reaper's mind is taken from the best that cycle has to offer. At one point in the leaked script a Reaper said "We are all Shepards".

Why do you think they were interested in Saren, but as soon as Shepard proved he was better, they went after Shepard? They want the best. Why did they fail to make a Prothean Reaper? They couldn't capture Javik; the Shepard of his cycle.

Remember Shepard's line to TIM when debating saving the Collector base? "Next thing I know, you'll want to grow your own Reaper". That's exactly what he's doing! That's his grand plan in ME3! And what does a Reaper need? Two things: People melted into goo to form the brain, and a singular consciousness to form the mind. Cerberus has both.

Remember in Sanctuary, anyone not useful in experiments or as troops was liquified, and now we know why! Organic material? Check.

"Humanity needs your mind, and they need it intact". We never did have an explaination as to what that TIM did to himself, much less to this line. Now we do. Singular consciousness? Check.

This also gives a better reason for dream-TIM from a writing standpoint. We've already discussed how having a goodbye with dream-Anderson opens up the possibility of him being indoctrinated or killed, but this does the same for TIM, as next time we see him, he won't be TIM anymore...

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[CmdrShep80]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The goo becomes its brain. I've solved the puzzle.

Remember I mentioned a couple days ago that my theory is that each Reaper, though its brain is made from millions of melted people, only has one consciousness, one mind. The Reapers only make one new Reaper per cycle, why? Because each Reaper's mind is taken from the best that cycle has to offer. At one point in the leaked script a Reaper said "We are all Shepards".

Why do you think they were interested in Saren, but as soon as Shepard proved he was better, they went after Shepard? They want the best. Why did they fail to make a Prothean Reaper? They couldn't capture Javik; the Shepard of his cycle.

Remember Shepard's line to TIM when debating saving the Collector base? "Next thing I know, you'll want to grow your own Reaper". That's exactly what he's doing! That's his grand plan in ME3! And what does a Reaper need? Two things: People melted into goo to form the brain, and a singular consciousness to form the mind. Cerberus has both.

Remember in Sanctuary, anyone not useful in experiments or as troops was liquified, and now we know why! Organic material? Check.

"Humanity needs your mind, and they need it intact". We never did have an explaination as to what that TIM did to himself, much less to this line. Now we do. Singular consciousness? Check.

This also gives a better reason for dream-TIM from a writing standpoint. We've already discussed how having a goodbye with dream-Anderson opens up the possibility of him being indoctrinated or killed, but this does the same for TIM, as next time we see him, he won't be TIM anymore...

Awesome deductive reasoning!  I like it a lot.  You're likely on to something that we won't know more about till a later dlc

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

It is really sad everyone just ignored my comment about ash sparks being in almost every trailer since arrival...

P.S. nope didn't ignore it.  You're right that ash sparks have been in every trailer for the most part since arrival.  it can easily signify that something's aflame.  Literally would be Earth.  Not literally starts moving toward the burning of the galaxy.  A farm interpretation, burning the ground with the leftover unharvested foodstuff so you can get a better harvest the next time around because the ground will be more fertile because of the ash layer

[demersel]

Blur, again. TIM is a reaper. At least by the time we get to Cronos. - He is inside that human reaper thing. He is that human reaper thing. but it is not enough.

Modifié par demersel, 20 novembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

demersel wrote...

It is really sad everyone just ignored my comment about ash sparks being in almost every trailer since arrival...

P.S. nope didn't ignore it.  You're right that ash sparks have been in every trailer for the most part since arrival.  it can easily signify that something's aflame.  Literally would be Earth.  Not literally starts moving toward the burning of the galaxy.  A farm interpretation, burning the ground with the leftover unharvested foodstuff so you can get a better harvest the next time around because the ground will be more fertile because of the ash layer

Those are the same sparks that can be seen in the picking up picture, Anderson in london lito, and male and female shepards standing up from rubble pictures that can bee sen on the ME3 twitter page. 

[Big_Boss9]

demersel wrote...

Blur, again. TIM is a reaper. At least by the time we get to Cronos. - He is inside that human reaper thing. He is that human reaper thing. but it is not enough.

Remember what you said earlier about assumptions? Adhere to your own statements.

[demersel]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

I know. I know. 

Modifié par demersel, 20 novembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[CmdrShep80]

demersel wrote...

Blur, again. TIM is a reaper. At least be the time we get to Cronos. - He is inside that human reaper thing. He is that human reaper thing. but it is not enough.

bet you're going to be right in the end. Aside from 3 instances, TIM predominately appears as a holographic projection to Shepard. Who else that is large and massive appears as holographic projections?  Sovereign and Harbinger. Can Reapers take on the guise of someone else in a hologram?  That depends on if you played arrival before or after the end of ME2. If you played it before, then you would know that harbinger appears as the image of the collector general. Also as we've all speculated, harbinger is the projection of the kid in ME3. What really gives that away is the refuse choice. 

Soo its not too far fetched that TIM could very well be a reaper since the end of ME2. Maybe even earlier. It all depends on time and that's something that BioWare does a clever job portraying events in different times at the same moment in time. i.e.  I take three video clips, put them together, one of London now, one of Vancouver 2 years from now, and one from Rio 2 years ago. You would be hard pressed to notice the difference in time and would have to look carefully since videos dont portray time as consistently linear

[masster blaster]

Blurr yes, but for literalist, they won't believe it. Remember they think we are cults, which I find very childish to call us that, but anyways. Yes it explains why TIM is acting that way, and I would like to add more on to it Blurr.

You see when Shepard tols TIM " You start being selfish craving about power, and we will all pay the price." Is TIM not craving for power to help himself, not Humanity. Look at what TIM has done to Humanity, is he protecting Humanity his race? No he isn't. He is turning his own forces to Reaper husk, so he can learn to not Control the Reapers, but to install himself in a Reaper body. That's why he wants Control over the Reapers because he wants a Reaper body.

The Proto Reaper could have been what TIM was going to use not just for his power base, but to let him upload himself into a Reaper, so he could dominate the Reapers with his new body.

But Shepard caused his plans to all go wrong, but TIM had a crazier idea. TIM saw Harbinger a prime target to become TIM's new body. Also didn't TIM say to the woman how was about to operate on TIM say " I know you can keep me inline." I guess she die because TIM is on the Citadel, if you think literaly. Yet something doesn't add up. TIM had to had his implants the night, or day before Shepard attacked his base because, and did you notice at the end of his last video he looks right at the camera, which is weird because what if he expected Shepard to see the videos. I mean just what if?

[demersel]

CmdrShep80 wrote...

demersel wrote...

Blur, again. TIM is a reaper. At least be the time we get to Cronos. - He is inside that human reaper thing. He is that human reaper thing. but it is not enough.

bet you're going to be right in the end. Aside from 3 instances, TIM predominately appears as a holographic projection to Shepard. Who else that is large and massive appears as holographic projections?  Sovereign and Harbinger. Can Reapers take on the guise of someone else in a hologram?  That depends on if you played arrival before or after the end of ME2. If you played it before, then you would know that harbinger appears as the image of the collector general. Also as we've all speculated, harbinger is the projection of the kid in ME3. What really gives that away is the refuse choice. 

Soo its not too far fetched that TIM could very well be a reaper since the end of ME2. Maybe even earlier. It all depends on time and that's something that BioWare does a clever job portraying events in different times at the same moment in time. i.e.  I take three video clips, put them together, one of London now, one of Vancouver 2 years from now, and one from Rio 2 years ago. You would be hard pressed to notice the difference in time and would have to look carefully since videos dont portray time as consistently linear

I think that TIM is actually that derelict reaper. Once we destroy it  all he has left is Jack harper as a free agent, and that does not scale well compared to a reaper, even a severely demaged one - so what he wants is to be reborne as one - that is why he wants the collector base in the first place. And that is why he has the human reaper inside cronos in ME3. all specuations of course. But you got to admit that TIM"s office in ME2 is very similar to the place Leviathan brings you into to talk to you. In me3 his office is different for some reason. QEC in ME2 is used only by TIM. (but ok, i'll hold off the QEC part - it gets people here angry as red cloth)

Modifié par demersel, 20 novembre 2012 - 09:24 .

[CmdrShep80]

@demersel- that's where I believe TIM is in the Reaper Brain inside Cronos Station. Guess we'll have to wait and see lol. I love the mystery of this all. It's so much better to be doing the speculating and IT lTing than if BioWare goes oh by the way Shepard lives and TIM, harbinger and the reapers are gone, oh and the ending is IT, now we can live happily.

[masster blaster]

Dem TIM wasn't a Reaper since ever. I mean yes maybe in ME3 he what's to become a Reaper so he cann make humanity the apex race in the galaxy. Holy crap that's it. I get it now.

Javiks cycle had a group of Indoctrinated Protheans that wanted to Control the Reapers right, Yet why? So they can have their race become the apex of evoulation and take their place again as the rulers of the galaxy. Now TIM is doing the same as them, and Sarens Brother.

Sarens Brother wanted to Control the Meta Turinas/ turn his people into Maruaders ( yet at the time he called them super Turians) so they can become the apex race of the Galaxy, and teach Humanity to know their place in the galaxy.

Ever Indoctrinated person that wanted Control wanted their races to dominate either the Reapers, the other races, or their own evolution.

Thus Synthesis is the next choice. Synthesis is the final test for all Indoctrinated people. The Indoctrinated Protheans that wanted Control soon became Synthesised into Collectors. Sarens Brother Synthesised his own people into Marauders/ Meta Turians, and then Saren himself wanted to unite Organics, and Machines together just like everyone did.

Kenson saw a future where the Reapers saved everyone didn't she. Just like the Synthesis, and Control endings show the Reapers saving everyone, and sharing their-no the cycle that were harvested's tech with the cycle.

[GhostShadow115]

Can I have a question...?

Does anyone now what people are talking in the "View War Assets" room on the Normandy...?

[abnocte]

BleedingUranium wrote...

*snip*

Also, rewritting the Heretics isn't indoctrinating them, you have to read between the lines: They're already indoctrinated, you're unindoctrinating them. If you could press a button to unindoctrinate all of Cerberus, would you do it? Right, same thing.

Well, the way I see it... whether they are indoctrinated or not is irrelevant.

You are still externally modifiying the Geth base processes so they reach the conclusions that fit your needs, just like the Reapers externally modify organics basic reasoning so they reach the conclusions that fit them.

Whether you are Sovereing, Harbringer or Shepard and the conclusions you want them to achieve, is irrelevant.

And I don't consider using the virus the same a undoctrinating them because there is no way to know for certain that the conclusions they reach after the virus takes effect are the ones they would have reached before being indoctrinated.

That aside... if Geth are actually indoctrinated why Sovereing felt offended when Geth started worshipping her? It wouldn't be a surprise that they would do so if indoctrinated.
How come the whole Geth weren't indoctrinated? As Legion explained in ME2 I assumed the Heretics reached that conclusion by themselves... ( thought this is a bit tricky if indoctrination is involved )

Also... why the hell the only ones investigating how indoctrination works are the ones that are indoctrinated? Meaning Saren and TIM? No one else even tries to suggest to study it , yeah, it is dangereous as hell, but I find it weird that nobody even addresses the idea among Shepards people...

[Bardox9]

First. thanks for the welcome to the thread. I am surprised how many responded to the post. Thanks to all. I'm going to try to get to everyone. If I miss you don't take it personally. There is a lot to respond to.

I know there is alot of speculation in my theory, but so can be said for all IT's. The stone debris could be just junks of solid metal that's been shred as bad as shep's armor. It still think he never left the side of anderson. And I don't think anyone believes shep is awake when he meets the catalyst.

Got me on the marauder bit, He did get shot in the shoulder. Be he was favoring his left side from the moment he stood up after getting hit my harbinger. I just can't believe he shot himself and had zero reaction from it. Hallucination or not you react when you get shot. As to the telepathy thing, I just used that word in place of harmonics or ambient frequencies or what ever it is that lets the reaper mess with your head. And i didn't say the destruction path leads to destruction of all machinery. Just synthetic life and the reaper constructs. Everything else should have been relatively uneffected. And I believe that little creep about as much as I believe Shepard would commit genocide on the geth, fry EDI, and kill everyone who depends on synthetic parts to live. It is reaching I give you that, but every IT I've read so far has taken liberties as to what is possible. Besides, it's just the theory that my mind (screwed up as it is) came up with... against my will I might add. lol

Shepard is an anomaly. His battles through his fight against the reapers, collectors and cerberus have shown is awesomeness and should be hailed as a symbol of hope to the galaxy. But with all those enemies dealt with he's just another soldier. Or so he claims. Even without those enemies, he still managed to pull every space faring race under one banner. Who you top that along with saving everyone from real monster I can't imagine. As to the human shaped reaper, perhaps shepard impressed harbinger enough to create a new class of reaper. Or maybe ever race get's their own reaper shell and that's why harbinger class and destroyer class is so huge. A protective shell or someting. Your guess is as good as mine... the cuttlefish thing is just funny btw. I think they look like 2 km long calamari and the destroyer class does look like a giant beetle.

Think that's everyone. It's just my theory. Doesn't have anymore believability than most others out there. Only tried the destroy and do onthing endings once each then reloaded from last save to pick one of the other two. Destroy and do nothing just aren't options any of my shepards would choose. Doesn't feel right to me. I like the control ending. Goes well with the legend of "The Shepard". The immortal guardian watching over all. Synthesis is ok. Of the options of death by reaper, glowing green bits, and galactic peace; I'd go with the glow. Would anyone really say no? If there would be then... well... tough. Deal with it.

[masster blaster]

Guys what Control really means than what we have speculated about. Controls let's you Control the Reapers right in literal ending, but it is you that's being Controlled by the Star brat right, but have we speculated that it's symbolic.

The brat over saw the Organics vs Synthetic war right, just like Shepard does to. The brat trys to find was to stop the Organics vs Synthetic war, just like Shepard. When the brat only see to harvest the Organics, and Synthetics, he has a problem he can't Control the Organics because they are not Synthetics like he is.

So the brat harvested his creators powers to only Control the Organics creating the Synthetics, and to stop the war, yet it was the Leviathans own powers that corrupted the brat which then it called himself Harbinger because that's what the Leviathans wanted to becalled. I mean the Leviathans that are inside Harbinger's body. In a sense The brat wabted to Control the cycles future, to Control everyones lives, what we do, what we think, what we feel, what we learn. He wants to Control it all.

Shepard in Control is setting himself/herself up to become the what the brat is. Although it says Shepard will Control the Reapers he is lying. Shepard is just going to become a Reaper just like the brat, only Shepard is now the new Nazar. The race that gave Harbinger the most trouble. Hence Shepard is Harbinger second in command now. Shepard is the Catalyst reborn again, and now the brat has some just like him to talk to, and harvest with.

[jojon2se]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The goo becomes its brain. I've solved the puzzle.

Remember I mentioned a couple days ago that my theory is that each Reaper, though its brain is made from millions of melted people, only has one consciousness, one mind. The Reapers only make one new Reaper per cycle, why? Because each Reaper's mind is taken from the best that cycle has to offer. At one point in the leaked script a Reaper said "We are all Shepards".

--- snip ---

Not out to diminish your deducting or anything - sorry if I come off that way, but is that not what has been generally assumed since ME2?

As for TIM; How do you see him exactly? -Kind of as Gollum, prospective Grima Wormtounge and Saruman rolled up in one?
His position and ambition with regard to Shepard seems to shift back and forth throughout ME3. At times he seems to view Shepard as old news; no longer useful and supplanted -- at others as a vital ingredient to his delicious megalomania cake.

[Bardox9]

GhostShadow115 wrote...

Can I have a question...?

Does anyone now what people are talking in the "View War Assets" room on the Normandy...?

Out side the comm room in the war room the center piece has a console you can click on to show you you war assets and galactic readyness.

[paxxton]

So demersel still thinks TIM is a Reaper. lolwut

[BleedingUranium]

jojon2se wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The goo becomes its brain. I've solved the puzzle.

Remember I mentioned a couple days ago that my theory is that each Reaper, though its brain is made from millions of melted people, only has one consciousness, one mind. The Reapers only make one new Reaper per cycle, why? Because each Reaper's mind is taken from the best that cycle has to offer. At one point in the leaked script a Reaper said "We are all Shepards".

--- snip ---

Not out to diminish your deducting or anything - sorry if I come off that way, but is that not what has been generally assumed since ME2?

As for TIM; How do you see him exactly? -Kind of as Gollum, prospective Grima Wormtounge and Saruman rolled up in one?
His position and ambition with regard to Shepard seems to shift back and forth throughout ME3. At times he seems to view Shepard as old news; no longer useful and supplanted -- at others as a vital ingredient to his delicious megalomania cake.

Well, there are may theories, but we don't truely know how a Reaper's mind works. I doubt I'm the first to come to this conclusion, but it's more about piecing everything together.

As for TIM: I see him, and the control mentality as a whole, as good intentions gone bad, just like Project Overlord. He's not a villain per se, but he's not on our side.

TIM is all the people that thought they could control the One Ring, while Saren is basically Saruman.

[masster blaster]

Synthesis now that's where the trouble is. The brat saw that after he controlled the Organics, and the Synthetics, that they are not like him. The apex of evolution. So what the brat did was he ordered the Synthetics to round up the dead/lving organics under Harbingers Control, and turned them into genetic material. Then when that was done Harbinger told the Synthetics to build him Reapers made out in his design, and boom. Thus the Reaper Destroyers are born. I say Reaper Destroyers because most of the Reaper fleet/army are Destroyers. Why not so many capital ships is because their isn't a single person/races to match what the brat wanted. The brat want perfection, and the ultimate Reaper it creates is the Reaper capital Ships.

Over time it tried to find more ways to see if Oragnics, and Synthetics could unlock the Synthesis DNA for it's perfection. Remeber Harbinger is imperfect right now. You can say he is like cell for DBZ.

Cell want's perfection, as does Harbinger, but Cell needs the Andriods 17, and 18 to become The Perfect Cell, as does Harbinger needs the genetic material of pure Synthesis DNA.

That's when Shepard comes in. Harbinger saw Shepard, and his/her races diffrent for anything he has ever seen. Once Shepard died he wanted to study Shepard to see what makes this one human special, but Cerberus, well Liara got to Shepard in time and brought him/er her back to life.

But this only made Harbinger test on Shepard more intresting. It's Shepard's humanity, emotions,personality, and friends that made him/her so special. Plus the upgrades he/she has in her body.

Anyways the brat/Harbinger saw that Shepard is the FINAL step towards Harbingers/ his true form. Hence he becomes perfect. Everything that Shepard is is sent ot Harbinger to become 1 with him.